Frame. And why non-monogamy helps make me more diligent about diet and body

I’ve written about why sugar is evil and have alluded to the much-discussed need for guys to lift, so I won’t belabor those points here. Every guy who gets into the game or Red Pill worlds learns about why lifting and style are important, and if you don’t know why by now I hope you found this via a Google search because I don’t know what to tell you otherwise.

Non-monogamy has made me more diligent than the average game guy about diet, swimming, lifting, and yoga.

Like virtually all people who consciously work to quit sugar, at first the discipline necessary is very hard, but over time habits set in and I eventually stopped missing sugar. I learned to taste real food again and got in the Sunday meal-prep practice to ensure that I wasn’t as tempted by easy, quick and horrific foods during the work week.

As guys who get deeply into the game know, the initial parts of game are about attraction and dominance, but most chicks tell themselves that they can eventually tame the bad boy and turn him into a long-term provider-guy (that is basically the plot of all romance novels and romance novels are porn for women: citation one and citation two). Even among players who imply or even explicitly say that they’re only in it for the casual sex, lots of women will fantasize about locking those guys down long-term, or the women will attempt it, as long as the guy has an okay job.

Most normal women want children (eventually, in the case of a very young girl) and most normal women also want to be financially subsidized by a guy. If the guy is also hot and good in bed, that’s a plus. This conflict between short-term hots and long-term provision is fundamental and explained by evolutionary biology.

So even among women who are being picked up on the street, there is an element of “will this guy be my long-term provider?” that arises at some point. Initially it may be and probably will be all about the seduction and the hot sex, and most guys underperform in being hot, dominant, and playful because society teaches them to do the opposite.

But over time women have a biological need to find guys to have kids with and subsidize them and their kids. That’s part of the reason long-term, undefined, FWBs-type relationships are so uncommon. Few chicks will allow them, at least past the age of 25. Even if they do, they will drop the FWB when they find a hot-enough provider guy.

(If you’re dating a chick under the age of 25 in a contemporary Western country, you can ignore the last two paragraphs, because chicks that age are all about the feelz and the hot sex.)

At sex parties, the provider part of the equation goes away almost entirely, at least for a night of passion (and the provider part, as I said, is not relevant for most chicks under the age of 25 in contemporary Western countries). The chick probably already has a primary partner who she evaluates in part for his material characteristics. The new guy needs to primarily be a hot sex guy. So she’s evaluating the guy much more along the physical lines than even a normal chick during pickup.

That’s why I’m so hardcore about the sugar thing and so hardcore about lifting weights, swimming, and lately yoga (post on that coming soon). If you’re going to do sex clubs and non-monogamy, the need for good looks and strong sexual skills go up, because chicks aren’t much evaluating you, even subconsciously, as a long-term provider guy. It becomes all about the sex.

In the sex clubs, it’s also common to strip, pretty quickly, to underwear. She will see you fucking your main girl, too, so she will be able to evaluate your body and sex quality in a very tangible, immediate way. Hot guys with good sex skills get more swap choices.

In contrast, most pickup and online dating is conducted primarily clothed. She can obviously tell some things about your body, but by the time she sees you nude she will probably already have crossed the sex rubicon or gotten close to it. She can also likely tell herself a story about how she can turn you into a provider long term, at least if she really likes you.

Or she’s just drunk and horny and doesn’t care.

For all humans, though, attraction starts with the body. Just like it does online. Online, women mostly judge your pictures, and I’m not even going to link to my piece about why guys doing online dating need to learn basic photography.

Improve your body and you will do better. It is possible for attractive guys in particular to have no game and fail, but it’s much less likely.

FRAME

Bringing women into sex clubs and parties also brings them deeply into a frame outside the mainstream. Those girls will lose their mainstream frame and gain a “sex-positive” frame (you can frame the frame more negatively, if you want). Some will enter that frame temporarily, then go back to conventional frames; that’s what happened to the woman I write about in “Women want to follow your lead: a story about a woman presenting two ways.” This is actually a very common story because most women want a family and children at some point, and going to sex clubs is not overly compatible with family and children: there is too much jealousy, competition, and risk for most couples to make that work. There are some women who don’t want kids or have already had them, and they are often the glue holding a club or a city’s scene together. Most women over age 40 aren’t objects of intense desire, so their presence or absence isn’t as important.

I’m rambling, as I tend to do, but point is that many women can be led into the sex club frame, but as they begin to think long term they will also fall out of that frame. The diet and lifting help a lot with the initial attraction and dominance parts of the seduction, but for women they’re less important for long-term compatibility. Most people, given enough time, almost stop noticing each other’s physical attractiveness, which is part of the reason long-term relationships are in my view so hard.

So a chick will think about the long-term project, realize I’m not good for that, and we’ll break up. Often it’s better if I break up with her or even seed the idea that she should find a father/husband guy who isn’t going to be me, no matter what she does. Being honest in this way means that the chick is less likely to do an angry, scorched-earth breakup because she thinks she’s been lied to. I don’t talk about long-term life goals on second dates but somewhere in there I give chicks my theory of relationships and that helps them decide what to do with or about me.

Many of those girls will leave to pursue a long-term relationship guy. Sometimes the things with that guy works out. Sometimes they don’t. When they don’t, they will often swing back around to me. Fine with me. I often wish girls good luck when they go.

The smartest and most conscientious women know and understand the gap between fun sex guys and long-term guys. They know the two don’t always overlap. And when it comes down to it, they choose the long-term play.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

5 thoughts on “Frame. And why non-monogamy helps make me more diligent about diet and body”

  1. I disagree with your statement, “Most women over age 40 aren’t objects of intense desire, so their presence or absence isn’t as important.” Have you never heard of the term “MILF” or “Cougar”?

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    1. You can disagree, but it’s still true.

      “Cougar” is a joke or marketing designation. Look at the graph in Christian Rudder’s book Dataclysm: Love, Sex, Race, and Identity–What Our Online Lives Tell Us about Our Offline Selves. Men prefer women ages 20 – 22.

      Obviously most men cannot get most 20 – 22 year olds, so they don’t.

      Obviously, there are slender and still got it 40-yr-old women who are better than 20-yr-old fatties. But the overall shape of the market is clear. At sex clubs, it’s all about the hot chicks.

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  2. I watched the YouTube video of Christian Rudder’s explanation of his book “Datacylsm” and I hadn’t heard of him before–he’s one of the four founders of OkCupid and it’s from 2014, and yes, his data from his OKCupid algorithms show that men prefer women 20-22 on OKCupid. Your comment about women over the age of 40 not being seen as “objects of intense desire” is you opinion. It is not a fact.

    Also, maybe stop calling women “chicks”??

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