How many women are open to sex parties and partner swapping? [intermediate/advanced]

This is intermediate and advanced shit that beginners shouldn’t be reading. If you don’t have regular girls on rotation, go read something else.

Nash and I have a dialogue about women’s propensities towards group sex in the comments section of Women want to follow your lead: a story about a woman presenting two ways:

So you think 75% of women are open to sex parties and partner swapping?

Wow.

I’m tempted to argue… But I trust your POV on this topic. And, I am likely one of the guys that “doesn’t get it” in this regard.

And I know every girl likes to be choked. Like 98%. And I’ve seen guys surprised by that, when it’s totally normal for me.

Is it 75%? I don’t know and it’s hard to say. If you did a survey, I bet only something like 10% of women be willing to say that they’re open to group sex. I’ve said this before, but of the women I’ve propositioned for a club or party, about 25% have been eager and excited, about 50% uncertain, and about 25% have had been a hard “no,” which usually precipitates a breakup because I’m not willing to be monogamous again.

But that’s about 75% of the women I’ve already been sleeping with long enough to ask the question… so it’s not a random sample at all. Chicks who are very reserved, very sex negative, very interested in monogamy, and very unwilling to have pretty quick sex don’t like me and I don’t like them. They are out there, but you never read about them in pickup writing because they don’t respond to street come-ons and online they’re very slow-moving. I filter out prudes, hard, though this is not the same thing as filtering out girls who might take some time.

So I don’t know how many women are open to sex parties. I’m 100% sure, however, that far more women are interested than would admit it in public or to their boyfriends. As I write in Status/coolness first, THEN evangelize for whatever the thing is, if the girl perceives you as cool and desirable, she’ll be more open to going than if she perceives as you barely on her level. This goes not just for sex clubs but also for gyms (working out) and whatever else you want to do.

Many women who initially say “no” will come around to it or be willing to experiment with baby steps. First they say no. Then they agree to go to one but do not want to touch or play with others. And then it slowly amps up, particularly if you can get her in the environment, which, if it has cool/hot people in it, is intoxicating. We’re herd animals and if the girl thinks, “Oh, everyone else around me is nude and getting each other off,” then she’ll think it’s okay and she’ll go for it. All players are familiar with the slow-steps process… so is any guy who ever dated a girl in high school or just an experienced girl. Most chicks won’t jump straight into things and need some lead-up and then some processing time. The processing time is important because she needs a guy to tell her she’s still a nice girl, she’s not a slut, she’s still loved, she’s not being evicted from the tribe, etc.

Women also like to follow. So a lot of women who have already invested in a guy and who are used to the guy leading will be open. The most common reaction I’ve gotten to women who’ve gone with me to a club or party is, “I never thought I would do that!!!! OMG!!!!” Some experience sub drop the next day, so care and reassurance is important. Most chicks have no internal feeling gauges so they need a man to reassure and lead them.

And of course most women who go to sex clubs will then lie to their future boyfriends and husbands about them, for the obvious reasons.

I’m guessing that most women who are willing to be picked up on the street would also be willing to go to a sex club.

Then Nash said,

I can say that most women I’ve picked up HAVE been to a strip club. Not the same as a sex club, but it’s true. And about 50% of girls I’ve asked are very clear what kind of girl they would pick out at a strip club (that’s a fun question to ask a girl).

>> Hard to say. Probably if you did a survey, only 10% of women be willing to say that they’re open.

Mostly… we never care what women say when asked directly. Particularly in a group/public setting. It’s more about if you get them in the right mood… what might they say.

A woman’s “truth” changes like the wind. You have to catch her in the right moment to know her potential.

>> I’m 100% sure, however, that far more women are interested than would admit it in public or to their boyfriends.

Another game I play sometimes with women is to talk about 3somes, but turn the question around. I’ll tell a girl that most guys have fantasized about being w/ two girls. And then I say, “but most guys don’t think much about a girl being w/ two guys.” And then, I’ll ask if she’s ever fantasized about that. Again, hard to say if the answer you get is real…

I’m not into “MMF” 3somes myself, but it’s a way to get into the grit of a girls sexual mind.

But this leads me to a similar place in our understanding of women’s minds/sexualitites… would she like to be DP’d? Would she go to a sex club… and swap partners? The truth is guaranteed to be that this is all more common than most men would expect.

But I think your “women like to follow” comment is very much on point. Without a man to work out logistics and to push for it… the super kinky stuff is less likely to happen.

That strip club question is good. I’m not a strip club person and think I’ve only gone with women in tow, because strip clubs are expensive and not very gratifying, so once I got into the sex clubs, BDSM clubs, and adjacent worlds I pretty much stopped going. Lots of strippers go to sex positive events anyway, so I can meet them outside of work.

I personally would prefer FMF threesomes, like pretty much every straight guy, but I have a male “threesome buddy” (sounds gay but isn’t) who I tend to trade chicks with. When I have a chick who wants a threesome with two dudes, I get my buddy to meet up and if everyone clicks we do it.

He does the same w/ me.

It’s a pretty baller move because most chicks are too scared to accomplish any of the things they really want. So they find a guy who makes it happen for them and they’re amazed.

But my real goal is a kind of “trade:” MFM for FMF. It doesn’t always work. Lots of chicks back out. It helps to say, “Which of your female friends do you most want to have a threesome with?” A guy can’t make it an iron-clad contract because chicks don’t think that way. But a guy can do a trade-off thing. It’s also possible to pickup a third chick together (I’ve done that).

Most of these things require deft male leadership. The guy can’t be too pushy but he also can’t be a wet noodle. Most chicks need to ease into kinky stuff. Not all. I’ve also seen chicks just go into feral beast mode the moment they’re set loose in a swingers club. A typical girl needs some comfort and slow escalation.

It’s not that different from pickup or online dating… some women will just do a one-drink-then-fuck, or a same-day lay, but typically they need some comfort as well as cocky-funny. It pays to play to the typical experience unless a given woman demonstrates otherwise via her words or her extreme compliance.

There is also the question of why do this at all? I do it firstly because I think group sex is hot. Secondly I’m not interested in monogamy, probably ever, and I don’t think it’s practical for most people today. Most people who proclaim that they’re monogamists are actually serial monogamists / serial polygamists, so their “monogamy” is only time-limited anyway. Lots of chicks really dig it too and they fantasize about it, so let’s be cool and make it happen.

Mostly I do it for me. Most people lie about their sex lives and desires. They get frustrated with their partners because their partners are lying too. In my view this short-circuits most of the lying.

If you want to know why people are tuned to lie to themselves, there is a new book, The Elephant in the Brain: Hidden Motives in Everyday Life, covering it. I’m starting to recommend it to chicks, but of course most chicks are too addled by their smartphones to read an entire book.

In short, most women are probably open to some kind of group sex experience but they need a guy to lead to make it happen. Kinda like everything else in intersex dynamics.

“Women hardest hit.” Also, don’t get married.

Women hardest hit” is another chapter in the great book of “don’t get married.”

One of the changes in the new tax law involves the tax status of alimony.  Previously the payor (men) could deduct the money they pay in alimony, and the payee (women) would have it taxed as income.   Starting with divorces commenced after Dec 31 2018, alimony payments will be treated like child support payments have been.  Men won’t be able to deduct the amount they pay from their income, and women won’t have to pay taxes on alimony received.

You would expect that the pro divorce lobby (nearly everyone) would be cheering this enhancement to the cash and prizes we offer as a reward to women who don’t honor their wedding vows.  However, the problem is ex husbands are already being bled white.  It has gotten so bad that the parasite is now expressing concern for the host.  All of the articles I could find on the subject object to the changes, not because they object to soaking men for women’s benefit, but because the change is seen as potentially hurting women.

If you are a man you are a wallet to the larger society. No one gives a shit about you except to the extent you can do something for them. You’re disposable to most people and to the greater society. Marriage is just a way of giving a woman half your assets and future income.

Marriage made sense in the distant past but it makes no sense today. Want to have kids? Just have kids, get a DNA test, and skip the marriage. You’ll still be liable for child support if/when your former partner gets restless, but at least you won’t be hit up for alimony too.

What’s with guys who are with considerably uglier women? [FR?]

Like I said, Bike Girl and I went to a friend’s sex party last night, and it was fantastic. I did notice one thing: three guys in pretty good shape escorting women considerably fatter and uglier than ones those guys should’ve been with. I looked at the guys with pity but also curiosity: if you see one severely mismatched couple, that’s normal. Three, though, all with relatively more attractive men, is weird. Whenever you see a guy with a fat chick, think to yourself, “this is why game matters.”

One of the fat chicks was seriously interested in us, and while fucking her probably would’ve been better than a sea anemone, I wasn’t interested.

When I’m around fat chicks I have a habit of becoming a gym bore and discuss squat mechanics in detail. Probably I should be subtler, but fuck it.

Three solidly hot girls were there: Bike Girl and two others. One was a stunner in her 20s, a blonde high 8 in my view, and her and her new boyfriend are just getting into the scene. After round one I brought out some massage oil to use on Bike Girl. I caught the other couple’s eyes and waved them over, then offered supposed massage tips. The other guy and I spent time massaging the girls we brought, then we switched girls, and the massages acted as foreplay and led smoothly into fucking.

Overall it was a great experience, although Bike Girl expressed reservations on the way home because she says she doesn’t like fucking strangers. I reassured her that what we’d done was fun, natural, and okay. That is a component of leading and to be expected among many girls, but especially among girls who are having sexual novelty they may not be totally equipped to mentally handle. Remember that most girls don’t know what they want and are psychologically equipped to tell stories about their sexual experiences that deny their own agency. Chicks rely on guys to calibrate their internal psychological levels. If you aren’t strong enough to do that you’re going to have a lot of wayward unhappy girls in your life.

I think what happened doesn’t even qualify as “game.” It was being in the right place at the right with the right energy and letting a thing happen. The other couple wanted what they wanted and got it. Most couples aren’t good at leading either, so someone has to be willing to put themselves out there and that someone turned out to be me.

I have a longer post about how chicks deny their own sexual agency coming up.

Happy New Year! If you’re a guy in a stagnant relationship with a fat chick, this is the time to make new plans. If you’re a fat guy yourself, this is the year to quit sugar and hit the gym. It’s possible to use game to overcome body deficiencies but boy is it hard.

Most people are too lazy to make changes, which is why I have the experiences I’ve had and most guys don’t have those experiences.