High school memories: no sex for you, but yes for the next guy

Don’t know why, but I was thinking back to high school and remembered a kind of weird dark pattern: a couple would start dating and the girl would refuse sex. Eventually they’d break up. Then she’d go f**k another guy right away, sometimes the next weekend. It actually happened to me, with a hot girl when I was a senior and she was a junior.

I still don’t have a great theory as to why girls do this, but I saw it often enough to make me think it’s pretty common. Red Pill and player guys know that, when a woman denies sex and is not progressing adequately towards it, she should be dropped. Young high school guys usually take a while to get to the same place. I guess high school girls think they can get the attention without providing the sex, and when that turns out not to be a viable option, they go out and just give the sex, leaving young high school guys confused, as I was.

I went to a high school with a pretty wide range of people in it, from hardcore atheists whose parents had been in communes at various points to hardcore Christians, most of whom claimed to wait until marriage. Typically the hardcore Christians married in their late teens or early 20s, then divorced a few years later. Some of them “made a mistake” in high school. Sometimes a lot of mistakes.

There were the typical groups of jocks, nerds, band kids, etc. Who was f**king who was the primary topic of conversation among most people. I think I missed, barely, the hysterical college admissions race stuff that seems to occupy a lot of students today.

Hint: What you do in college and with your life matters infinitely more than the college you go to.

Players typically have a three-date rule, where if sex doesn’t happen by date three they bail. There can be exceptions for when the girl is progressing adequately but is not quite there yet. For high school guys, though, the timeline will probably be longer for some girls, but I’d wager that if she’s not f**king by six to eight weeks of dating, it’s time to move on. I had some problems with my game in high school and early college, but this precise problem wasn’t usually one of them.

The top girl from Seeking Arrangements

I’m getting some questions about older posts, including this one about Seeking Arrangements (I wrote it a long time ago and then re-posted it to this blog after I created it). I had some crappy SA dates that were oddly similar to crappy regular online dates, but I want to focus on the girl I mentioned who I saw for a long time. She was gorgeous and a very solid 8. Conceivably a low 9, although she didn’t dress or act like it. She dressed and acted like a typical college student: jeans, t-shirts, tank-tops, sweatshirts. Okay clothes but she didn’t have a lot of experience with or interest in fashion, maybe because she didn’t have the money to. Inexperienced but not stupid. She was a basic girl in many ways but also ready to shed some of her basic habits like TV, boring social networks, and adopt newer, more interesting habits. She didn’t behave like the hot girl and at the time I don’t think she fully understood how hot she was. Some younger chicks, especially the ones who don’t dress with their chests and butts hanging out, don’t fully understand their power or how to wield it. Some do, of course, and they can be obnoxious, but this one didn’t. I notice that a lot of girls don’t figure out how to wield their sexual power until ages 21 – 23.

I’d gone on dates with some other chicks from SA. Some were not as described, the typical online dating problem. One stands out, as she was an outright pro and pretty, but she wanted an outrageous amount of money, and I laughed in her face. She tried to negotiate downwards, but one key to negotiation is to be ready to walk away. I was ready to walk and promptly did. Real pros are usually a little too brittle and distant for my taste. I notably banged two chicks, one multiple times, and gave that one some money, about $200. But when I found SA girl, I stopped with the SA efforts.

SA Girl looked better than her pictures and was surprisingly demure. In retrospect, she said she found me deeply intimidating but also someone she could easily talk to. I used a lot of open-ended hopes and dreams and peak experience questions, all of which resonated with her. I think she’d gone out only with guys who wanted to get between her legs as fast as they could. They didn’t have good dating or seduction skills, or chose not to use them. Most chicks like to know something of the guy they’re going to let inside them, even if they’re to be paid. SA Girl really responded to hand-holding, one-minute silent eye contact, closing her eyes and visualizing her dreams and future, those kinds of things. I don’t know if I like girls who respond to that kind of thing better, or if girls who like me respond better, but I can get into the “bubble” quickly with it. When it works, it works. We were more compatible than typical people. That sounds like bullshit optimism, but I’ve been a lot of gray online dates. Exceptions stand out.

Our first date was a standard drinks date. My message was typical: “Let’s get a drink at [bar] and see if we’re compatible, and we can go from there.” I actively preferred not to attempt a first-night bang. This girl came in a little black dress (very nice, and also unusual) that I later learned she’d borrowed from a friend. I can’t say exactly how I knew, but I could sense that she wasn’t comfortable in what she was wearing or where she was. It took her time and a lot of comfort effort on my part to open up. Usually I only do hour-long first dates, but I stayed much longer with her, risking being cast as the provider boyfriend type more than the lover guy. We did a quick kiss before we departed, and I told her we should get together for dinner.

On date two a few days later I picked her up (this was before Uber was common) and made dinner and then we fucked. She was very nervous and this affected her performance, but I took a very long time with foreplay and warming her up, which allowed her to relax enough to enjoy it. She wanted to stay over and I slipped an envelope with like $200 in it in her purse. She never asked for money. Next time we got drinks together and she was much less inhibited about sex. The connection was still strong.

I may have been able to keep nailing her free, but if a girl is desperate enough for money, she may do both free and paid sex. I said we should do a $500 a month thing and she immediately agreed. That was a lot of money for her and, based on what I’ve seen since, she doesn’t have the personality for sex work (this is a good thing). She got out of the sex-work grind and I got everything I wanted. Again, I could be wrong and for all I know she was still hooking on the side, but if so she was a master scheduler between school, some normal joe work, and seeing me. It’s never a good idea to underestimate the caginess of women, but this one didn’t display typical signs of sign of outside action, like sudden absences, unaccounted time blocks, extensive phone guarding, etc.

As we learned more about each other, SA Girl said she’d only had sex with three guys before, and while I’m skeptical of these kinds of claims, I somewhat believe it. She’d dated a guy for two or three years, and she seemed surprised at how long I was willing to go down on her and how attentive I was to her reactions during sex. For example, she had extremely sensitive nipples, and her long-term ex either ignored her boobs or was too rough with her, maybe due to porn.

She’d never used sex toys during sex before, and that was a revelation for her. She could come many times by being bent over and having me behind her while she used a vibe on herself. Pretty standard stuff in my world but a total game-changer for her. I think her long-term boyfriend was some combination of young, selfish, and inexperienced. Good sexual communication seemed foreign to her. It took a fair amount of training and openness on my part to get her up to speed, sexually speaking.

Again, to be sure, I can’t say the truth about what she was telling me and what I inferred. Why would she stay with a guy who isn’t that good in bed for such a long time? Young chicks are often dumb and don’t know any better, and she seemed to not know any better. I was much more patient and knowledge than other guys she’d been with, and I may have just hit the right girl with the right stuff at the right time. Or she was flattering my ego. But her behaviors seemed to match her words. That level of congruence is not always common. Players know that sometimes a girl is just into you, for whatever reason, and players know to ride that wave when it hits.

To the extent she wanted sexual adventure, she already had it built into our relationship. Even if I had been interested in a monogamous relationship, she would have been too young to attempt one, apart from how we met.

She was willing to go to sex parties with me and was typically the youngest chick there and always in the top three or five in terms of beauty. Like attracts like, as I’ve written before, and if we found another attractive couple, it was always the couple in the top two or three. As with most things in life, the more value you bring, the more value you get. Some of those couples and women I’m still friends with, long after SA Girl moved away and started some other life (she’s married now, or maybe I should say “for now”).

In my local scene, I’ve been seen with multiple extremely hot chicks. That gives me a standing and reputation that has led to many invitations, events, etc. SA Girl in particular made an impression. Lower-level girls can dress themselves up a level or two, but when all the clothes come off we see who a person really is. When the clothes came off, SA Girl was spectacular.

Eventually it was time for SA Girl to move on, and she talked about either staying in my city or me moving with her. The latter was not feasible for me, in terms of work or family. The former was not wise for her: she would come to resent me, and she was too young for a long-term committed relationship. There were a lot of tears on her part, but, just like I say it is wise to catch and release women who want families, it is good to catch and release young girls for whom a long-term relationship is too early. It is better to let a lover go than to wait until the feeling curdles. Many of you will be familiar with people in high school relationships who try to keep it going at separate colleges, or when the guy leaves for college and the girl goes to high school. It almost never works. My typical strategy for this conversation or set of conversations is to explain that she needs to be free, she needs to explore the world, she needs to see what else is in it: if it is meant to be, she will come back and then we will be together.

Spoiler: I am always right and she doesn’t come back. Or she comes back for some casual sex but not for a long-term relationship. Even then, when I was seeing SA Girl, I knew that no girl under age 25 or 26 is suitable for a long-term relationship. Guys who think otherwise are typically deluding themselves and setting themselves up for drama and heartbreak. At worse, they marry chicks who are too young and set themselves up for expensive divorce. No thank you!

I don’t know what SA is like today, as I’ve not used it or any other paid site in some time. I assume that, if I stay in the game long term, I will eventually turn towards paid sites again. The Internet is of course filled with 55-year-old guys tagging hot 24-year-old chicks, and, while I know from seeing it that that’s possible, it’s also hard to do, even for top guys. And that depends on continued health and wealth. A couple months ago, an acquittance died from cancer. He was in his late 30s with two young kids. News like that makes you think about what you want your life to be about.

For guys, SA and related sites are closer to online dating than is commonly realized. It is possible to blow a disgusting amount of money on lame chicks there. It may also be possible to be very cost-effective. I spent far less money on SA Girl than some guys spend on their divorces, their stupid McMansions, and their Teslas… cars are incredibly overrated as far as game and women are concerned.

I don’t know what SA is like today and right now I feel no urge to find out. I can say this particular girl was worth it. We eventually integrated into each other’s social networks, which was weird and fun for both of us. She liked being around older and sophisticated people. I liked some of her young hot college friends. The ones who weren’t hot and weren’t curious about the world I didn’t spend any time with, because there was nothing we could offer each other. Some of her friends thought it weird she was dating an older guy and some of them were intrigued.

Later I ran into one friend on the street and banged her, so that was a nice bit of pre-selection, but the friend was about a high 6 or so. Nothing special apart from the age disparity, but a nice experience whose seeds had been planted years prior. Many players appear to be wanderers, always finding new cities, cold approaching in new places. I’ve pursued the opposite strategy: living in one place for a long time, knowing it thoroughly, and attempting to build and maintain networks in that place.

The beta is strong in this one

I don’t love the terms “alpha male” and “beta male,” but sometimes they just fit too well to ignore, like in the sex diary about “The New Mom Feeling Nostalgic for Her Lap-Dancing Days.” This woman is married to a beta male and has a toddler, though it’s not clear whether the baby is actually her husband’s:

Damn, I lived it up.

I was pursuing musical theater in New York. I was hot. I was a dancer and top earner at a members-only traveling lap-dance party. C would visit me. He’d get hard watching me dance topless, legs spread, reverse-cowgirl style, closer and closer to the eyes of a well-dressed Wall Street exec. C would follow my ass, and we’d lock eyes as I simultaneously led another finance dude to “get comfortable.” Well, those days are gone.

Most guys should be smart enough to know not to get in serious relationships with sex workers. This one seems not to know that.

Today is the day C works from home and I get to see J, my Sugar Daddy. I busted my ass in class today; I’m going to look hot.

J is somewhat new. We’ve been fucking once a week for three months. He gives me an allowance of $3,000 per month. I’m saving it all to go to nursing school. Plus, we’re planning on moving in a month, out of my mom’s house. We need all the money we can get right now. We never intended to be here for more than a couple months. C knows about J — he gets off on the idea of another guy jerking off to me on the regular.

This guy is working and taking care of a baby, so that his wife can go f**k another guy for cash? No way.

And this other guy is paying an older woman who’s already had a kid $3,000 a month for sex? WTF? Even in Silicon Valley, he should be able to get much better value for his money. Unlike some Red Pill guys, I’m not opposed to paying for it (in the right circumstances), but $750 per lay with an older woman is crazy.

If guys are wondering why a lot of women are outrageously entitled, look no further.

I’m an only child, and my parents are divorced. I’ve always had a rocky relationship with my dad, but my mom always supported me in theater. I went to a private Catholic high school

Bad relationship with the father… into theater… the red flags as far as long-term relationships go just pile up.

She looking at yet another guy to f**k for money, too.

I believe that, in the course of seven days, she f**ks one guy for cash, goes on a date for another, and never manages to lay her husband:

C is pining for a blow job. I offer sex — that’s my test. If he rejects sex, I know he’s just lazy and wants to come effortlessly. Sorry, C, no can do. I’m just as lazy and tired as you are right now. C masturbates. I like to listen by the door. I am a closet voyeur. I love the idea of watching a guy totally uninhibited, unaware that he’s being watched. It turns me on the most.

She’ll get it up for the guy paying, but not for the man she lives with and she’s married to. Diagnosis for husband: Beta.

My only hope is that the story is fantasy, not reality. From a man’s perspective, the whole story is “what not to do.”

Ms. Slav: the latest updates

I’ve been in a sex whirlwind… not of my own making, for once. Not entirely of my own making, that is. I’ve given Ms. Slav her own tag, so you can see the series of posts, but she is more into group sex and non-monogamy than just about anyone else I’ve met. She’s totally sexually uninhibited and, while most people who say they don’t experience jealousy are lying, I think she’s telling the truth.

I should recount what we’ve been up to, but there has been too much to hit all of it. The foursomes have probably been most interesting. She is so young and pretty that she attracts pretty much anyone, online and off, such that I feel like I’m being fed this steady stream of really great food… more than I really want to eat, but as the possibility of it presents itself and I get a whiff, I keep sampling.

It’s clear to me why normal women hate women like Libido Girl or Ms. Slav: those women are highly disruptive to the social order. They reduce female bargaining power and not a little bit—they reduce it substantially. Because of hate, the Libido Girls and Ms. Slavs of the world hide who they are. Ms. Slav is too young to have taken on a sex-positive identity, but I believe she is taking one on now, and that identity can help immunize her from female haters. As she surrounds herself with sex-positive sluts, her identity will shift and the hate will mean less to her. This is what normal women hate and fear… another woman who will f**k their boyfriends and not be susceptible to slut-shaming.

Ms. Slav is unusual because she is if anything not discerning enough for my taste. Most chicks don’t like most other guys and/or are not really bi. Ms. Slav loves sex, loves it with an array of people, and will have sex with seemingly almost anyone she fancies, and she fancies pretty easily. This makes her a potent weapon but also one with drawbacks. I’ve had a bunch of sex since taking her to the parties, some with an “8,” and it is amazing to watch her become one with the scene. But it is also odd to see someone so uninhibited, to the point where she is less specific than I would like. Usually the opposite happens… I encourage a chick to hook up with other chicks, do her part with other couples I like, etc., but Ms. Slav is not like that.

I have very little if any control over her. Most normal chicks need to be encouraged. They feel jealousy when I nail another chick. They want to make sure that we’re a team. Ms. Slav doesn’t appear to be like that at all. It’s unusual for me to not have to push the chick forward, and instead to see her go zooming ahead of me. She is not like any other girl I’ve started in the non-monogamy scene. It’s pretty common for a new girl to bond with one or two other people and to have a small group of regulars. It’s uncommon to have someone who just loves to f**k and has been seeking this kind of permission and opportunity since puberty. She has probably been seeking permission to go wild her entire life and now has it. I wouldn’t be surprised to see her become some kind of sex educator or sex missionary more generally.

Going to sex parties with Ms. Slav is like playing a video game with God Mode turned on. She’s so young and hot that the possibilities are only really limited by the other girl’s interests and proclivities.

Ms. Slav reminds me a little of down-to-f**k (DTF) girls I’ve met online and offline. They like sex and are uninhibited about it and if you match some baseline threshold, she’s a “yes-girl.” Most girls are not like this, but when a guy finds one he merely has to smoothly escalate. That is another reason normal girls hate the Ms. Slavs of the world: the Ms. Slavs undercut the willingness of guys to invest lots of time and attention in more normal girls. Most normal girls won’t have sex within an hour of meeting, but the ones who will, hurt the market positions of the ones who don’t.

When I’m dating, I usually probe for interest in drugs and drinking, interest in sharing or hearing sex stories, and reaction to light physical touch. There are no doubt more sophisticated algorithms, but the simple one seems to have worked for me.

Two days ago, we met a couple off an app; the woman is very pretty, more attractive than the guy, and very quiet. At my favorite bar (the staff have asked me about my ways… they have seen a lot) Ms. Slav, myself, and the other guy did most of the talking. Then back to my place, blindfold over the other woman, and less foreplay than I would have thought. Ms. Slav stripped her quickly and began going down on her. I have learned to prolong the foreplay, longer than I think it needs to go on for, and been richly rewarded by that practice. The other woman has sensational breasts and I spent a lot of time on her. Great body overall. Face looks very good in the right circumstances. The guy couldn’t get off. I offered some pharma assistance in that regard and he declined. They are not super experienced. Not yet. Hard to know if they will get there.

Before them, we had another, bad date, with a couple whose pictures were 10 – 15 years out of date. The guy was a personal trainer of some sort and the woman an administrative assistant. They are the stuff stereotypes against swingers are made of: older, annoying, low culture (but not in a fun way), lack any semblance of glamor or poise. I noped us out of that one. I like girls who are smart but also sensual. Not a big fan of older, dumb chicks. They were an exception, though. Most people are more or less as they present themselves. Lying in online dating is not a high-quality move, because it wastes a lot of time and doesn’t result in much.

Still not quite connected to Ms. Slav. Still waiting on the IUD thing. One big problem with me and non-monogamy is the condom thing. It is possible to move past it, after everyone swaps test results, but condoms are the default.

I’m starting to understand the whole “mid-life crisis” thing, which I used to think stupid. In most ways my life is really good. Yet I feel somehow hollow, or colorless, a lot of the time, and I’m not sure what to do with that. The old ways seem not to be working for me anymore, but I don’t know what the new ways might be. I don’t see myself continuing indefinitely down this hedonism path, but I also know too much to approve of some other paths. Some I’m kind of stuck. Many of the earlier life challenges, I have surmounted, or surmounted well enough. What next?

I’m not complaining, mind. If you’re my age, have adequate funds for housing and books, and are still railing a Ms. Slav, things cannot be that bad. In the future, however, I might shift away from her and towards someone more substantive. Good Looking Loser has a new podcast up, not very intersting or actionable, but he is also older and not so interested in sport f**king randoms anymore. I get where he is coming from. Simultaneously, I have built this whole ecosystem and just system to deliver pretty good, pretty consistent casual sex, and I’m reluctant to give this one up. Like many things in life, it was hard to build but will be easy to dismantle or let atrophy. Yet that may be my destiny anyway. I have been exploring some local political work, so maybe I will do that instead. There are one or two women in the background who could, I think, be long-term prospects. But I’m very particular about a woman who is going to be around over the long term, so I have a fundamental challenge there.

There are also some very hilarious Red-Pill comments she has made. She’s been tooling a try-hard guy for months… he kept trying to get her out last weekend, and by one in the morning she finally told him to leave. I remarked that I would never put up with that kind of behavior. She said, “I treat different guys differently.” He asked if she was home yet… and she said to me, as if she were going to write it in a text, “Baby, I wasn’t home. He should know that.” He is giving her unearned attention, and while she is enjoying it, it isn’t getting him anywhere. He texted her that he would rather be out with her than anyone else in the world. This to a young girl he barely knows. Folly. I made those mistakes… in high school and college… not for a long time. If anything I err towards not giving enough attention and not doing enough comfort.

Training Ms. Slav has been interesting. She has required very little training, though. With her… I think I can keep up, but I don’t think I want to keep up. Seems like a minor distinction, but I wonder if she’s my last ultra-high-energy girl. One down side of guys dating chicks half their age is that those chicks can be much higher energy.

“Aggressive and Humiliating Sexual Play” are highly desired by most people

Aggressive and Humiliating Sexual Play: Occurrence Rates and Discordance Between the Sexes.”

More than 70% of participants found at least one aggressive or humiliating sexual play desirable, whereas about half of the participants found at least three such acts desirable. Significant sex differences were also found, with men desiring to engage in such play more than women. This discordance was moderated by the willingness of each party to partially accommodate each other’s desires.

Players know that, used correctly, aggressive and dominant sex is extremely powerful and desirable. The key is using it correctly and in the right circumstances.

There is a well-regarded book called The Sex God Method that is probably still available on the Internet that goes into some of these methods.

The same acts that are disgusting to women from the wrong man are arousing to women from the right one.

There is no easy way: there is only the hard way

Being a player is hard. Most guys must churn constantly for new leads. Old leads drop off. Chicks are of couse flakey, because they’re testing for a guy’s quality. Neither online nor offline dating is fast for most guys. The economic conditions that make game plausible have only existed in the West for a couple decades.

Being in a monogamous relationship is hard. Sexual boredom will likely arrive, no matter how hot the sex is at the beginning. Romantic attachment will replace passionate attachment. Most chicks expect financial subsidies in a monogamous relationship and will seek guys who provide those subsidies. Most chicks want kids if they don’t have them already. Worse still, some chicks will already have kids and be looking for a new guy.

Being in a non-monogamous, hedonistic relationship is hard. One needs all of the skills of the general player, and one needs the personal temperament to want to do non-monogamy. The player needs to re-wire the chick’s internal psychology to make non-monogamy a part of the chick’s identity and toolkit. Not all chicks will go for it.

Gathering enough information to make rational decisions about the world is hard. One needs a lot of practice in the real world as well as a lot of reading and networking with other players to understand the world. Dominant information sources are not helpful for most aspiring players. Many are inaccurate or written from a woman’s perspective. Even sources of information that are better-than-average, are often not the best.

One of the more gratifying parts about writing here is the traffic from search engines. Some guys find this material from what is probably random searching.

Discipline is hard. That’s true in terms of diet, mind, information diet, and body. It’s true in terms of work. Discipline is one reason I was reluctant to write online for a very long time.

While the above paragraphs are true about the individual guy, every guy is simultaneously doing his thing to try and get laid.

The military guy is being a tough badass to make chicks think he’ll protect them and that he’s competent.

The music guy is literally seducing chicks with the sound of his music.

The athlete guy is expressing his physical fitness and his ability to dominate other men.

The business guy is demonstrating the quality of his mind and his ability to outcompete other men in the industry. He’s demonstrating his capacity to support a woman and provide a good home for her and her children.

The laid-back surfer and weed guy is demonstrating how chill he is and how she can relax and focus on pleasure with him.

There are many others. All of these guys not only have whatever traits they possess, but they also have the confidence and backbone that comes from being good at something (almost anything, really). Guys who realize they’re better than 96% of the population at a given domain get more confident than guys who don’t have a real skill. Notice that “video  games” “eating fast food” “social networks,” and “TV watching” are not among the disciplined fields where mastery matters and attracts women.

A guy can only embrace his version of the hard way. I have it easier than many guys but also harder than a lot of guys. My way has been hard and remains hard to this day. The hard path is an essential component to life. When I was younger I thought I could find “the easy way” with women, but I have found there is no final, easy way. There are ways that are more or less relevant to a given guy, but none is easy. To succeed, a guy should embrace the pain. The pain of learning. The pain of working longer and harder than other guys. The pain of creating when others merely consume. The pain of being John Galt.

To me, the non-monogamous way is easier, better, and more plausible than some other alternatives, but “easier” is still hard, and it still has to suit a guy’s personality. This way suits my personality; it may not suit yours.

I get the sense that many guys are like I was, thinking that there is some easier way. But there is not. There is only the hard way. There will always be a relative shortage of hot chicks in the hottest age range. Guys from the onset of puberty to the onset of senescence will always be competing for them. Game and evolutionary biology will clarify female psychology, but it’s still necessary to execute effectively. Most guys cannot or will not. Player blogs are typically written by the rare guys who will go the distance.