Get past your identity and look at the data

The stink of poly-ticks is high in this post, which has little to do with actual game, so you may want to skip it.

Riv finds it strange that I don’t have an anti-immigrant or right-wing identity, since both seem somewhat common among RP guys. I think I just read a lot more than most guys, and that reading leads to posts like, “The best books for learning game.” It’s also led me to the literature on identity and identity formation, and there’s a good book on that subject, Identity Crisis: The 2016 Presidential Campaign and the Battle for the Meaning of America. It’s about the presidential campaign, sure, but it’s also about how the stock of anti-immigrant sentiment got turned into a flow of anti-immigrant sentiment in 2016.

Anti-immigrant sentiment has a long and weird history in the United States. It’s “weird” because the United States is an immigrant country; unless you are Native American, your ancestors moved here, and they probably moved here in a way that would be “illegal” today (mine did). Seriously, go back and look at the Know-Nothing Party, or this article. People hated the Irish then, as a group. People hated the Italians in the first half of the 20th Century. Over time, these groups became part of the background of the United States, as other identities formed.

Today the arguments are the same… the immigrants are coming to steal your jobs, change your religion, dirty your house, etc., etc. When the arguments remain exactly the same but the targets of the audience change, you should be real suspicion about the argument’s accuracy. You should build your identity around examining arguments, not around believing one of them. We should read more history and put forth fewer online memes. We should encourage people to be free and expressive.

So where’s this RP, right-wing thing coming from? Probably from the bad feminist tendencies on the left. It is true that the feminist left-wing in Western politics is very bad. But I would encourage Red Pill guys to avoid thinking that, because the feminist left-wing is bad, we must therefore join or admire the right wing. We don’t and we shouldn’t. Game works to make the world a better place by helping guys gain the social skills and make the connections that wouldn’t happen otherwise. We should be thinking about how to do the same thing, in political terms.

There are also few genuinely religious people left, particularly among the young. Most of the “Young Christians” I know have had so many “slip ups” and “mistakes” that you can discount their protestations of faith. What takes up the space that religion used to occupy? Claire Lehmann is one of the most interesting people on Twitter and she says, “Having hundreds of people explaining to me on Twitter that everything from sex to nature to beauty is ‘political’ makes me realise that Western civilisation really hasn’t come up with a viable alternative to religion, yet. Until we do, politics will be the opiate of the masses.” A lot of Red Pill guys—like Blue Pill guys and people more generally—treat politics like a religion, instead of like an intellectual field in which new information should be able to change your mind.

If you find yourself lining up behind one party on all issues, you should really stop and ask yourself: do my views on these numerous and unrelated issues line up so neatly? Or am I following the herd?

Players know the danger of herd-following. Try to be yourself.

Outside of Twitter and among people who study actual immigrants and immigration, there is little doubt that immigration improves lives. Here is one paper, but there are many more. Don’t let emotional coverage of one extremely uncommon event sway you. Look at the data. Just as a player should not let any interaction with any given chick sway him, you should not let some random and unfortunate event sway you (unless maybe you are going to let an equally random and fortunate event sway you).

Why doesn’t this information make it to guys on Twitter? Partially because Twitter is limited in character count, so no one can make complex arguments on it (like this argument). Partially because all of us, including me, like to incorporate information that already agrees with our preexisting worldview. Partially because almost all of us need someone to hate. It’s not the Communists anymore, so immigrants and Chinese are conveniently distant bogeymen.

One of the best guys I’ve ever worked with was born in Pakistan, and his family brought him to the U.S. when he was small. He didn’t get his immigration situation sorted out till he got married (to a U.S. citizen). It is striking that the people who are most opposed to immigration have the least exposure to actual immigrants. People are more alike than not, and that is why game works in different countries: there are cultural variations, but the male-female dynamic remains. It is true that wealth and access to medicine changes the supply curves and elasticities of sex, but the game skillset and mindset remain.

The United States is great at taking in people and, within a generation, turning them into Americans. Europe should be trying to do the same thing. So let’s have less blood-and-soil, less xenophobia, and more historical knowledge. Immigration is good from both a moral and practical standpoint. Don’t let your right-wing identity get in the way of those basic facts. Think for yourself.

I have seen lots of ill-conceived political tweets from Red Pill guys, but the real response to those political tweets is book-length, not tweet length. Even this post is far too short. I write it because I want at least one comprehensive statement out there. Your identity as a player need not be linked with an anti-immigrant or right-wind ideology. Go your own way. Be independent.

The world is not a zero-sum place. If it were, we’d not have had the incredible progress of the last two centuries.

Let’s all try to do better.

Immigrants do a great job of becoming Americans.

Is this not enough on the topic for you? Here is a follow-up post with yet more data citations.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

19 thoughts on “Get past your identity and look at the data”

  1. >>Riv finds it strange that I don’t have an anti-immigrant or right-wing identity, since both seem somewhat common among RP guys.

    I’d say they’re less common than you think. The right-wingers and anti-immigrant guys are just more vocal about it.

    Like

  2. Brave article. : ] And well written. You are a very smart, and interest man, RQ.

    But I disagree like crazy. I am with Riv, here.

    >> So where’s this RP, right-wing thing coming from? Probably from the bad feminist tendencies on the left. It is true that the feminist left-wing in Western politics is very bad.

    There is nothing political about “redpill.” I am fighting a losing battle for the def of that word, but it means “to see.” Just to see WHAT IS. We argue about what there is to see… but REDPILL MEANS THE OPPOSITE OF NPC. That’s what it means. It means look for yourself. Really see. Don’t auto-digest the dogma. (You are saying similar things here, actually).

    You are correct about feminuts. And hyper LEFT ism in general, as pushing guys to “see” something. There is endless self-serving dogma there.

    I ALSO think GAME guys trend TO THE RIGHT, as there are CONSERVATIVE VALUES in working hard, being disciplined, not playing the victim, etc.

    We are odd, in that (and I speak for myself), I am not trying to start a family and “promote my church” (even though I know those are bedrocks of civilization). I am out causing trouble. Fucking married girls. Living scandal (as often as I can). That is me being a bit chaotic (=left). I see that. That is not all of me. But it is there.

    But I have used conservative values (RIGHT) to succeed. Started in game, but has spread to finance and fitness. Embracing “hard work.” This is all RIGHT-leaning. Game guys cluster here.

    And as I LEAD WOMEN (even in the micro sense), I am living “RIGHT.” And as I lead men (in a more macro sense), I also CREATE ORDER. And live to the RIGHT.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. >> But I disagree like crazy. I am with Riv, here.

      I’m happy with well-done disagreement.

      >>And as I LEAD WOMEN (even in the micro sense), I am living “RIGHT.” And as I lead men (in a more macro sense), I also CREATE ORDER. And live to the RIGHT.

      The balance between order and chaos is interesting to me. Most of my life is ordered, so that in some parts of my life I can have a lot of chaos.

      Like

  3. >> Outside of Twitter and among people who study actual immigrants and immigration, there is little doubt that immigration improves lives. Here is one paper, but there are many more.

    C’mon. You cite SWEDEN?? Sweden is in big trouble, my friend. Because of over-reach of LEFTism, and by consequence… open borders, chaos, and serious, serious crime. And rising debt for the “utopia” they don’t even have.

    Take a better look at Europe. Europe (because of Merkle) is in big, big trouble.

    …………………

    > Let’s all try to do better.

    Good leadership. This whole post is good leadership… even as I continue to disagree.

    MERIT BASED immigration is a good thing. Maybe. I certainly have not problem with it. CANADA requires you to “earn your way in” via standards for literacy, speaking the language, having resources. This is bare bones common sense.

    And I’ll make this PERSONAL… I think I am going to try to move to Japan next year. And they also have a MERIT BASED system. Very similar to Canada. I score relatively high on that scale (which makes sense, I am an achiever, that makes me a good candidate for immigration). But I will likely also have to bring in resources (real cash). Maybe start a business, employ some Japanese.

    That is PRETTY SMART of the Japanese, isn’t it. Aiming to import solutions… not problems.

    And I LOVE THAT IDEA.

    Doesn’t that make sense? Why should Japan take me on… if I come in, as a BURDEN? Why? Why burden existing citizens with low-achieving immigrants with no resources?? That is net minus. Only a foolish king would encourage net minuses in his country. Importing problems is a terrible idea.

    So… I hope I am WORTHY to move to Japan. And look at that attitude. What kind of “green card holder” will I be, if I enter until that FRAME?

    AND… I will immediately LEARN THE LANGUAGE. I am not going there to change Japan. I am going, specifically, to assimilate.

    THESE distinctions are what the LEFT is missing from their arguments.

    MERIT based immigrants, intent on assimilation… are much more likely to be a net positive, than uneducated newcomers, seeking “benefits” and intent on setting up colonies.

    Activity from that last group will sink a ship rather quickly. And this TREND from the LEFT is why NATIONALISM is on the rise. It’s bare bones common sense.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. “I will immediately LEARN THE LANGUAGE. I am not going there to change Japan. I am going, specifically, to assimilate.”
      From reading your (very good) blog, I know that you’ve been to Japan several times, more than me. But perhaps you should read this other blog before you anticipate that it’s easy to assimilate:
      http://japaneseruleof7.com/sex-in-japan/
      I picked out one post, but the whole blog is worth reading. The author particularly focuses on how hard it is to fit in (even for the Japanese), and what a bitch of a language it is to learn.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Thanks for the link, Jake. I read it all.

        I don’t trust that guy. : ] He sounds like Krauser’s buddy Bodi. I am not saying he is lying. But I think he is cherry picking the truth. And he sounds like a MGTOW. (so does Bodi)

        >> Again, this is a hard thing to reconcile if you don’t live in Japan, but being in a relationship and having sex have precious little to do with one another.
        — That blog

        I live in the US… This ^ is true everywhere. Married people don’t fuck at all (rarely). It’s why I try to have LOVERS… Not “relationships.”

        > before you anticipate that it’s easy to assimilate

        This is a different point. And I have yet to try it. And I expect it will be hard. And… I will expect I will be fail. I will always be an outsider.

        But I will try to “live Japanese.” That was my point. I won’t try to set up “Little America” where I land. I’ll learn the language. I may be an outsider…. But I won’t challenge the official culture… I a, a FAN, not a hostile invader… Even as I have my own style, which won’t be “typical Japanese,” but isn’t “typical American” either.

        And people still fuck in Japan. Not everyone is a bitter MGTOW. : ]

        Liked by 1 person

      2. “And people still fuck in Japan. Not everyone is a bitter MGTOW.”

        Good rule of thumb is to remember that she’s probably f**king someone… might as well be you.

        Would not try in Saudi Arabia, but it’s a good rule in the majority of the world, where people want to indulge their normal impulses and passions.

        Like

    2. Japan is an interesting example because even it has come round to the virtues of immigration: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-09/foreigners-are-shoring-up-japan-s-shrinking-population despite its long xenophobic history.

      I favor learning the language, but realistically most immigrants never do. Not wholly. Fortunately, their kids do, and “they” become “us” over time.

      (Wrote a longer comment that WordPress ate. Frustrating.)

      Like

    3. Japan is an interesting country because of its long history of extensive xenophobia. Even Japan, though, seems to be coming round to the virtues of immigration: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-09/foreigners-are-shoring-up-japan-s-shrinking-population. It has to, or face the demographic crunch from old people.

      I approve of merit-based immigration, but I also note that, within a generation, the “other” becomes “one of us.”

      The world is moving in a positive direction. There is a meme in economics that few people emigrate from “middle-income” countries. It’s well-known among policy people, for example, that Mexican immigration to the U.S. cratered in 2009 and hasn’t recovered since. https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/mexican-immigrants-united-states. Why? Mexico’s economy is relatively strong. And Mexican women are having fewer children.

      As long as the world keeps getting better, immigration is going to decline as a problem. Global climate change is probably the biggest confounding factor to this over the next several decades.

      Like

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