Priorities and Ms. Slav’s challenges in non-monogamy

Yesterday I did something new: I prioritized Peaches over Ms. Slav for sex. Ms. Slav has a somewhat difficult schedule, as do I, but she has been, or become, less reliable than I would like. I was tentatively supposed to see her for a nooner tomorrow… but Peaches was available, and I was more confident she would show up, and we’ve been having sex without condoms, and Ms. Slav has been becoming less reliable, so I picked Peaches.

The sex was great. I love mid-day hotel sex. It’s so dirty. Everyone else is at work, and I’m in a woman, doing the thing that everyone else really wants to do.

Ms. Slav is getting a lesson in sexual marketplace values, I think, as well as her own difficulties. She has met a series of people (men, women, and couples) who she has liked. One couple pulled away from her when she started dating another couple whom the first couple had had a falling out with. Another couple, led by a guy, tried to make her their “girlfriend” after like one sex date. She was flakey with him, then he had a blowup at a party or event or something (I’m slightly hazy on the details myself). Guys keep adding her on Facebook, and she indulges them, in a way she should not. I think she should protect her value (I have implied that without using those words), but she is not doing that.

I think she believed the non-monogamy scene would be filled with people who aren’t placing limits or bonds on each other, and who don’t feel jealousy, as Ms. Slav says she doesn’t. She has found some people like that. But she has found guys who are trying to take her, make her theirs, and control her sexuality… just like in the regular, monogamous world, just to a different degree.

She doesn’t appreciate how desperately most guys desire young hot girls. There are just not that many really hot 18 – 22 year old girls in the scene. In anywhere except universities. When a young hot sexually explorative girl shows up, all the sharks rise, like throwing fresh meat into the water. I think Ms. Slav doesn’t quite understand her own value. That makes sense, because I have seen some of the not-hot girls she’s dated. She is less focused on the appearance of her partners than almost any other hot girl I’ve ever met. Most girls who are “pansexual” still aim for the hotter guys and girls. Ms. Slav doesn’t do that. Very unusual. I know the Internet is full of guys saying, “This girl is different,” but she is different. Ms. Slav can have sex with any straight man she wants. Guys do not experience the same with straight women.

At the same time, though, she wants someone like a “primary partner,” to use the lingo of the scene. Most people in the scene don’t want totally anonymous, random sex all the time. They want a boyfriend/girlfriend-type person who is not sexually exclusive, but who does form a team, for lack of a better term. More on this later. As part of a team, each member has to put each other first. Guys want this an as a way of getting into parties and getting new girls by exchange with other couples. Girls want this for emotional reasons, and it’s also a defense against predation (guys are less likely to try to coerce or heavily persuade girls with boyfriends).

Ms. Slav was also invited by a guy to a party, then invited me, then we had sex, then the other guy tried to say she was his date (she didn’t think so), then he was like, “Don’t interfere with my date!” and I was like “I have nothing to say to you, buddy,” and we ended up leaving. Weird, as he is good-looking but turned out to be quite pathetic. I know him tangentially. Rich guy, a trust-fund kid maybe, although he is not a kid anymore. I thought he wouldn’t be so desperate, but he was… he must have no game (that is my most probable diagnosis). Maybe he is so good looking that he is not used to having girls say no. Strangely, very attractive people can take rejection worse than people who are used to rejection. He is better looking than me, to most chicks… not all, but most. Pretty-boy looks. He found Ms. Slav on Facebook then invited her to an event… which she invited me to… and once there I found out about the arrangement. Annoying. Even I feel some amount of possession and jealousy. Or, more likely, I want to see fair value exchanged for fair value. Ms. Slav bollixes up that equation by her sheer love of f**king.

Oh, and there is yet another guy she liked but who has pulled back from her for unknown reasons. He hasn’t quite ghosted her, but I think he has de-prioritized her. He has a good setup… he probably doesn’t need a primary relationship with Ms. Slav. She’s surprised by that, I suspect.

Ms. Slav has now found that, when she meets new people and especially guys in the scene, they do one of two things: they try to “date” (monopolize) her, or they have sex with her for a while, then go find another random for sex. She wants someone in between and is not finding them, because finding someone who wants to let her go f**k like wild and let the guy pick up whatever sex he can is probably not going to happen. She is also a high IQ person, and the average person bores her (apart from sex). High IQ, but inexperienced. I have figured out a lot of stuff Ms. Slav hasn’t yet figured out. She probably will, eventually, but I’m not like other guys she’s met. No one else has tried to bring her into the sex-positive scene.

I have seen a few chicks in the scene get into a scenario like Ms. Slav’s, where they are so sexually open that they cannot find a primary partner. Those chicks find all the casual sex they want but then are unhappy when the guys won’t become the chick’s primary partner and won’t even take them to dinner. Seriously, I’ve heard this complaint a couple times over the years: “Guys want to hit me up for 9pm sex, but why can’t we at least go out for dinner first?” Or, “I want to do other things than just have sex, then the guy leaves because he has to get up in the morning.” There is no point in explaining evolutionary biology or fundamental value to these girls because those ideas will just offend women, even as they feel the effects of evolutionary biology and value at work in their lives and relationships.

Hearing Ms. Slav’s story also clarifies to me why I do so well. I have the ability to meet and seduce new chicks, then bring them into parties: most guys can’t or won’t do that. My game is not as tight as some guys’s game, but it is sufficient for me to have a “reputation” as the guy who brings in new chicks. The good-looking guy I mentioned before ought to have life on easy mode in this respect, but the bitch came right out of him when he didn’t get the things he wanted. For me, if one chick falters, I find another one and don’t complain about it. I don’t want to claim I’m a total stoic. I’m not. I get annoyed, I get hurt, internally I get annoyed with badly behaved chicks. But it’s also axiomatic that you can’t beat the market. That is obvious in financial markets, where people who attempt to beat the market usually end up bankrupt. People who attempt to “beat” the dating market may get some lays they “shouldn’t” have but tend to end up alone and disconnected.

There is always a shortage of young hot girls. Every straight many desires them. Many young hot girls do not fully appreciate their powers until the powers wane. There are also girls who, when young enough, are just a little bit heavier than I prefer, but they haven’t yet stacked on the pounds that will make them unacceptable to me.

Some guys will no doubt say that I shouldn’t have brought Ms. Slav into the community in the first place. But here’s the thing: with her, it wouldn’t have mattered. She is not going to be monogamous, no matter what. She has always had short-term relationships or cheated on her boy- or girlfriends. Some people virtually cannot be monogamous, and Ms. Slav is one of them… all I have done is given her an intellectual framework and community.

She doesn’t prioritize me sufficiently, or to the extent I would like, which is an unusual position for me to be in. Typically, women say they feel I am too interested in sex with other women and not devoted enough to the primary relationship. Now I’ve found someone who is doing to me, what I have arguably done to others. I think I’m hurt, or showing some signs of inner turmoil, because I’m accustomed to being in the power position in the relationship. I’m accustomed to being the one who is too much for the woman to handle. Now I see some bad signs of the sort I am used to giving to others, but in Ms. Slav, doing them to me. I have begun to de-prioritize her, as she has, I think, been doing, somewhat, to me. It may be unconscious in her, as she is genuinely not like normal chicks, or even like normal people, and she has long been estranged from most of her natural community and affinity group(s).

Most guys find sexually indiscriminate women unattractive for anything more than extremely casual, no-strings sex. I am among those guys, despite what I have written here, because even within the non-monogamy community, most people still exercise careful discretion. Those who don’t, have problems like Ms. Slav’s (if they are female and attractive) and will be expelled from it (if they are male and do not bring value back into the community).

I can’t remember if I said this, but I got her friend who is from her home country, and the friend is very hot, so that is very nice.

A chick like Ms. Slav is amazing for the sheer number of sexual opportunities she opens up, but I’m not sure that is what I’m seeking right now. Most couples in the scene form a team. If they are not a team and fundamentally devoted to one another, they fall apart. Yes, I know that most anger-phase Red Pill guys will say it’s all the fault of the evil woman for defecting, but often it is the fault of the man for de-prioritizing the woman. To do this successfully demands a lot of social, emotional, and sexual intelligence, which most people just don’t have.

Ms. Slav also gets attention wherever I bring her. I mentioned taking her to Thanksgiving. I have also brought her to yoga with me a couple times. There is a woman there, probably in her early 30s and okay, who has been flirting with me. This is unusual for me, as yoga classes and gyms have not been productive places for me and I rarely hit on women in those environments… I go back to the primary yoga studio and gym over and over again and do not wish to poison the waters. Anyway, I hadn’t mentioned Ms. Slav to her… and now she’s seen Ms. Slav… and she had a barrage of questions about Ms. Slav. I admitted to the woman at the yoga studio, “Ms. Slav is too young for anything serious, but I like her.” Which is true, but appropriately vague. Women love vague, and that’s why so few women become engineers. The yoga studio has surprisingly few hot chicks in it. Every yoga apparel company advertises with mid-20s hardbodies, but the reality has been somewhat different, in my experience. Yoga also doesn’t make up for sugar intake.

I have been emphasizing that non-monogamy is hard, although it is hard in a different way than game itself.

I travel some for work and Ms. Slav is out at events, almost every weekend, and I know what that means. She has zoomed past me in terms of wanting to go to events. She wants to go to a lot of events, and now that she’s well-known she gets invited to literally everything going on in my city.

I may shift away from Ms. Slav and towards choosing her for couple-to-couple dates. Her love of f**king and lack of filter makes her well-suited to that role. But those same qualities make her ill-suited to being a primary partner or girlfriend, as she is finding out.

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Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

20 thoughts on “Priorities and Ms. Slav’s challenges in non-monogamy”

  1. Wow, man. This is one of my favorite posts of all times. Not just here… But anywhere.

    You’re doing everything that makes a post special: interesting story (super interesting), good theory/framework, + personal feelings.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. As much as I love this post… I am full of judgment. And I’ll own all that. That judgment says a lot about me… you help me see my limitations.

    > Her love of f**king and lack of filter makes her well-suited to that role. But those same qualities make her ill-suited to being a primary partner or girlfriend, as she is finding out.

    Over and over in this post… I find myself hoping I never meet a girl that has had this kind of background. And I don’t blame you in any way… But I assume this girl will be completely “damaged goods” in a couple of years.

    And it is an interesting experience to deeply appreciate the role you are in… And to feel revulsion at the same time.

    I am genuinely encouraging of you. I want to know “mating”/”dating” first hand – and you have precious and unusual experience there…

    …but as I read it, I feel myself backing out of the room.

    I like kink. And sex. And as many girls as I can access. But this is such a hot mess of psychology… I want to retreat to my introverted Asian girls.

    (Even though I realize some girl I have dated has likely been to a party like those in your scene.)

    Excellent. Fascinating. A+.

    Like

    1. >>As much as I love this post… I am full of judgment. And I’ll own all that. That judgment says a lot about me… you help me see my limitations.

      That’s okay. Let the judgment out. I can take it.

      >>I find myself hoping I never meet a girl that has had this kind of background. And I don’t blame you in any way… But I assume this girl will be completely “damaged goods” in a couple of years.

      Her background is less extreme than her present. She’s like finding natural fissioning uranium in the wild. Yeah, she’s very different from most of the world’s material… but I’ve scooped her up, put her in a centrifuge, and come out with highly enriched uranium. I’m taking what’s already there and making it purer.

      Can’t tell if she’ll be “Damaged goods.” I think most chicks who are “damaged goods” cannot accept their past or reconcile their sexual proclivities with their higher-order thinking. Ms. Slav seems to have aligned forebrain/hindbrain. For that reason, I don’t think she’ll turn out as “damaged goods.” No guarantees, obviously.

      >>…but as I read it, I feel myself backing out of the room.

      Yeah man. What I’m up to isn’t for everyone. Yet many players are implicitly doing this. Sexually adventurous chicks are surely more responsive to players than sexually non-adventurous chicks. You probably aren’t getting many girls of this type among introverted Asians, however. Maybe some Japanese girls. I have heard about the kink clubs in Japan.

      Like

      1. > I’ve scooped her up, put her in a centrifuge, and come out with highly enriched uranium

        I am into the concept of “training” girls right now. I mean that in a soft, almost causal way. I was doing this actively in Shanghai on my last trip… I bet you are training her as well.

        Like

      2. > Can’t tell if she’ll be “Damaged goods.” I think most chicks who are “damaged goods” cannot accept their past or reconcile their sexual proclivities with their higher-order thinking.

        I would assume you don’t buy the “girls lose the ability to bond when they have X number of sex partners” argument.

        I am still in that camp. I don’t claim to have all the logic of it mapped out, but I think girls (much more than guys) “push themselves into more extreme orbits” with each new “5-10 guys.” If she is headed toward 50 at her age… she’ll be off the scale “over exposed” by mid-20s.

        Judgment from me. Sort of. And maybe some navitee? But some of this seems like common sense.

        I think this is like the jealousy thing. Certain folks can adapt more/less than others, but the effect is real.

        She is bound to have some bad experience with that level of exposure… and that will build up a residue. There is part of the logic.

        And of the set of “quality men,” she will have to actively hide this part of her life from the sub-set that would never entertain a girl with this kind of experience in their inner circle. Even “hiding it” will take a toll on her, I presume.

        It is NOT as if men won’t want her… but almost all “conservative men” will push her aside. And men that don’t have tight control on their jealousy will push her aside. A few rare, high quality men that are “very open” might be interested knowing her background… you might be an example of one of those men.

        ……………

        Separately: I read American Gods by Gaiman a few years ago (so-so book). He has a character called Pandora. She is like a lovely, predatory courtesan… she “consumes you” as you fuck her. And the character never came off as malevolent to me.

        Maybe… maybe somewhere… there is a highly-sexed girl (as in 50+ partners) that comes out at the level of “sex goddess,” giving herself in this open, radiant way, year after year, with no corruption.

        I am open to the concept… but I have never seen it.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Nash: “I would assume you don’t buy the “girls lose the ability to bond when they have X number of sex partners” argument.
        I am still in that camp. ”

        Having been a swinger, I’m not a subscriber to the ‘thousand cock stare’ idea. I think highly promiscuous girls can still bond, but it takes a lot of emotional maturity and social skill. Pressure is on them from almost all sides to pretend to be a much more chaste version of their true selves and it takes real strength to stand up to that. “I pegged Disney with a pineapple, and now I’m irrevocably damaged” may be the idea put in their heads, when really they need to double down on the non-monogamy and go out and find a portfolio of men, each of who will give her a portion of the total life experience that she wants (with reciprocation on her part required, obviously). Unfortunately society can’t handle it and most guys can’t either.

        On the question of disclosure, I’m in the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ camp. I live in a very conservative society where everything happens behind closed doors, so it is politic to handle things that way, but even in a liberal society I just think it would make good sense to be discreet. TRQ is lucky that he can romp openly in ‘the lifestyle’ playpen where discretion is less important, but that nevertheless has its own rules and etiquette.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. >>On the question of disclosure, I’m in the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ camp. I live in a very conservative society where everything happens behind closed doors, so it is politic to handle things that way, but even in a liberal society I just think it would make good sense to be discreet.

        Really? Can you say which country? Is it an English-speaking country?

        If it’s not an English-speaking country, I’d really encourage you to write about your experiences in that country’s language. Change comes from people networking together to think differently and consider new possibilities. You can be a catalyst for that change.

        I ask about language because lots of material about game and sex positivity is available in English. Less is available in many other languages and cultures.

        Like

      5. @daysofgame.com —

        >> I would assume you don’t buy the “girls lose the ability to bond when they have X number of sex partners” argument.

        Actually, I think that’s true for the average girl, who just gets f**ked up by too many partners. But there are some girls who have hindbrain/forebrain agreement and can seem to do it.

        The bigger problem for those girls is that most guys, even sex-positive man-slut guys like me, don’t want to bond with the most promiscuous girls. “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”, that kind of thing. And it’s often tough for girls to put their partners first. Tough, but not impossible.

        So is it true on average? Yeah. But it’s probably less true in the sex-positive community, where a structure for this thing exists.

        Ms. Slav seems very uninterested in the concept of “quality men.” This is part of what bothers me: she lets too much of her value go. Riv likes to say men build their value, women protect their (pre-existing) value. Ms. Slav is not quite good enough at that, for my taste. This goes back to the idea of sex-positive, sexually experienced girls finding it hard to get primary partners. Even within the open-relationship and sex-club scene, there are some rules and principles. If a girl is not going to put a primary man first, she is not likely to find and keep one.

        Even I am focused on value and reciprocity. Even girls in the scene find casual sex easier than longer-term bonding.

        >>Separately: I read American Gods by Gaiman a few years ago (so-so book). He has a character called Pandora. She is like a lovely, predatory courtesan… she “consumes you” as you fuck her. And the character never came off as malevolent to me.

        Maybe… maybe somewhere… there is a highly-sexed girl (as in 50+ partners) that comes out at the level of “sex goddess,” giving herself in this open, radiant way, year after year, with no corruption.

        I am open to the concept… but I have never seen it.

        I have seen it, I believe. Ms. Slav may be like this. I am thinking of another woman I was seeing for a while who has this kind of quality. Some of these women are just very independent and don’t want to conventionally pair-bond. They don’t want kids. They have self-sustaining, good jobs. It’s not super common, but I have seen it. Ms. Slav may be like this. She has a lot of work ethic. Her family is very rich, too.

        I think some women like this become escorts. Why not make big bucks for doing something you’re already doing for free? Kind of like how a lot of amateur porn is now being made under the aegis of Pornhub’s Verified Amateur program. Why give it away, when you have something valuable enough to make a few bucks at it?

        I don’t know what will happen with or to Ms. Slav. She is at least seven years away from thinking more seriously about kids and family. More likely ten years. A long time for me. An ocean for a girl her age.

        As usual, your long comments make me write long comments in reply.

        Like

  3. > Yesterday I did something new: I prioritized Peaches over Ms. Slav for sex.
    > Peaches was available
    > I picked Peaches
    > The sex was great. I love mid-day hotel sex. It’s so dirty. Everyone else is at work, and I’m in a woman, doing the thing that everyone else really wants to do.

    This part… Makes me happy. It makes me laugh to say it… But it is the most wholesome part of the post. : ]

    It is part of a good story that you wonder about the characters and I have wondered several times where you are at with Peaches. Your story of when you first had her over is also fantastic. I was interested that this story about Miss Slav started out with a note on Peaches.

    I wondered if she had lost her luster since you were able to pull her into your orbit… I guess not. Good!

    > and I’m in a woman

    Almost looks like a typo… But for a man like you, Sir… It is clearly not.

    Bravo.

    Like

    1. >>It is part of a good story that you wonder about the characters and I have wondered several times where you are at with Peaches. Your story of when you first had her over is also fantastic. I was interested that this story about Miss Slav started out with a note on Peaches.

      I wondered if she had lost her luster since you were able to pull her into your orbit… I guess not. Good!

      I’ve “broken off” individual girls from a couple before. It’s a bad thing to do. It’s against the open relationship, group sex party etiquette. But I will give it a shot if I think it’s possible.

      Peaches doesn’t seem like a good long-term person. Married, life in flux, etc. You never know, though.

      Like

  4. “Now I’ve found someone who is doing to me, what I have arguably done to others. I think I’m hurt, or showing some signs of inner turmoil, because I’m accustomed to being in the power position in the relationship”

    That’s exactly what i have been thinking since your “where do i go from here” existential/game? crisis type posts and wanted to comment but stopped myself. Better to come to conclusions by yourself than told by others.

    You are so advanced at what you do.. non jealousy, non monogamy, being detached. And yet you have found someone who’s more advanced/better at it than you and beating you at your own game. Not that she’s doing it intentionally, just build that way. That’s making your inner world come apart but can lead to a newer better world maybe. Not a nice experience whenever that happens but gives new perspectives to life and can lead to maturity.

    Like

    1. >>That’s exactly what i have been thinking since your “where do i go from here” existential/game? crisis type posts and wanted to comment but stopped myself. Better to come to conclusions by yourself than told by others.

      Leave the comments! You never know.

      I’m somewhat advanced… but, I think that, while I’m not jealous per se, I do want to see people behave by the correct rules and principles. I try to impart those rules and principles to Ms. Slav. She has not totally absorbed them, however. I’m fine with group sex and non-monogamy if value is being exchanged for value. Ms. Slav is throwing the value equation out of whack, and I see it, and it makes me unhappy.

      I don’t think my inner world is coming apart, but I sense that my “player” and “sex-first” priorities are falling. So what’s the next priority? That’s what I’m thinking about. I want to share what I think I’ve learned, as I think I’m going to be out of the main part of the game at some point.

      Ms. Slav has come along at an interesting time. Her desires match my knowledge.

      Like

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