There is a very large amount of randomness (noise) in pickup and game

There is a very large amount of randomness in pickup and game, and I’ve written about the role of randomness. It should be further emphasized by guys writing about the game.

If you are interested in the psychological parts of pickup, in the “why” in addition to the how, it’s hard not to see yourself developing a theory of human nature… but that theory needs to have a whole lot of random in it. When I was younger, I wrongly thought people are pretty consistent. Now that I’m older, I’ve seen too much evidence to the contrary: I’ve seen girls be harlots on Saturday nights and nuns Tuesday nights. Sometimes vice-versa. Girls are so random that part of what guys learn in the game is to accept her randomness. Some of the way chicks run hot-cold is them testing a guy. Some of it is just them being nutso. It’s just noise in the process. There is experimental evidence for the noise:

I’ll tell you where the experiment from which my current fascination with noise arose. I was working with an insurance company, and we did a very standard experiment. They constructed cases, very routine, standard cases. Expensive cases — we’re not talking of insuring cars. We’re talking of insuring financial firms for risk of fraud.

So you have people who are specialists in this. This is what they do. Cases were constructed completely realistically, the kind of thing that people encounter every day. You have 50 people reading a case and putting a dollar value on it.

I could ask you, and I asked the executives in the firm, and it’s a number that just about everybody agrees. Suppose you take two people at random, two underwriters at random. You average the premium they set, you take the difference between them, and you divide the difference by the average.

By what percentage do people differ? Well, would you expect people to differ? And there is a common answer that you find, when I just talk to people and ask them, or the executives had the same answer. It’s somewhere around 10 percent. That’s what people expect to see in a well-run firm.

Now, what we found was 50 percent, 5–0, which, by the way, means that those underwriters were absolutely wasting their time, in the sense of assessing risk. So that’s noise, and you find variability across individuals, which is not supposed to exist.

And you find variability within individuals, depending morning, afternoon, hot, cold. A lot of things influence the way that people make judgments: whether they are full, or whether they’ve had lunch or haven’t had lunch affects the judges, and things like that.

Now, it’s hard to say what there is more of, noise or bias. But one thing is very certain — that bias has been overestimated at the expense of noise. Virtually all the literature and a lot of public conversation is about biases. But in fact, noise is, I think, extremely important, very prevalent.

Accept this in pickup and pickup should become more pleasant. Young guys ask themselves, “Why does she like Mike and not me?” There may be great reasons for that but often the reasons are that she’s not that into you, she has a boyfriend she genuinely likes, she’s not in the mood, etc. etc. Your approach will fail no matter because of matters internal to her own mental state.

Sometimes she likes Mike even if he is “worse” than you in ways that pickup artists would identify. Take Peaches. She is still seeing her original guy. He is worse than me in most ways. Doesn’t matter, she still likes him for whatever reason. I may be too masculine for her. Seriously, some chicks like guys a little more feminine and androgynous. Not most chicks, but some.

You cannot judge your own game skills based on a single interaction. You can try to improve one thing from every single interaction, but you can only average your skill across many interactions. The underwriters in Kahneman’s experiment have great incentive to be consistent, but they are not. The underwriters are “noisy.” They are operating in the Fooled by Randomness world of Nassim Nicholas Taleb.

Guys also have some randomness, though we often call it “state.” I have been the funniest, sharpest, most socially wonderful guy in the world. I have also been mopey, miserable, depressed, anxious. In one state I do pretty well, in the other I don’t do well, most of the time I sit between them.

Guys in the game need to do two things:

  1. Improve themselves.
  2. Approach women, then escalate them from “Hi” into observation or comment into chat into a date and into bed from there.

Many guys who think they’re in the game seem to get stuck one point one. Some guys do a lot of point two and none of number one and then wonder why their fat, floppy, sloppy selves can’t get chicks. Combine them and you will maximize the likelihood of getting the good chicks.

Almost every guy learns that chicks are random… Chris at Good Looking Loser calls it “Sexual availability” and some other names too… Guys get confused by female randomness because 1) guys are more logical than chicks in general and 2) guys have a simple mating algorithm: we want to have sex with as many as the hottest chicks as possible. Chicks have a much more confused and nuanced mating algorithm that chicks themselves don’t understand. And they frequently can’t explain why they feel or why they do what they do. If you try to interrogate a chick’s logic, you’ll often get such confused garbage and babble that you’ll still not understand it and, worse, make the chick angry by quizzing her about it (I did this some in high school and college). Chicks feel more than think. It’s important for guys to lead for many reasons, one being that most chicks are psychologically incapable of leading in a romantic situation. Their evolved psychology compels them not to lead. Guys feel too, but the feeling is much simpler… “Is she hot enough to f**k? I want to f**k her.”

Novice guys want to do what they could have done differently with “this one girl.” The answer is often, “Nothing.” Or, “Something, but she still might have said no.” Don’t let any individual girl get in your head. She probably says no for reasons that have little to do with you and a lot to do with her.

“Chicks are random” is also one of the many factors explaining why few women reach the top of companies and organizations. Guys figure out that women are random and keep that in mind when choosing colleagues, promotions, etc. And randomness in dating life also manifests itself at work. That’s why your female colleagues are more likely to have weird random meltdowns, be inconsistent, etc. Chicks are wired that way and can’t help it. The randomness players see in the dating market, you will also see in job markets.

Magnum also says, “women are random.”

Non-monogamy and the game: book update

The book about non-monogamy, sex clubs, and game is now about 41,000 words, up from about 31,000 words in the first completed draft. Three or four guys have read it and returned it with feedback… if you are one of those guys, thank you. I still don’t have a good title for it and may default to “Sex clubs and non-monogamy for players” or a similar title. The title may be too direct but the book is trying to demystify things, much as players demystify the dating market.

I’ve been looking around for anyone who wants to make a cover image. One beta reader suggested I put the cover image and layout jobs on Upwork. I’m reluctant to plow money into a free book, even small amounts of money, but maybe that is worth doing.

I’m going to publish the book under the Creative Commons 4.0 Attribution license. Anyone who wants to distribute the book can do so as long as they acknowledge this website and “The Red Quest” as the original writer. Because I’m likely to quit the community at some point, I want to give the book a license that will make it easy to copy and remix in perpetuity. Maybe someone will make a nice physical edition of it.

Right now, I still haven’t found anyone who has written on this subject at the level of depth and knowledge that I’m writing at. I’m sure some guys have discovered what I’ve discovered through trial and error, but it’s exciting to be the first person to discuss a topic in detail.

Finishing the book and making comprehensive edits has sucked up far too much time, but at this point I’m determined to see it through and produce a book that is novel, useful, and accurate.

I also think monogamy is dying. In response to some observations by the beta readers, I have added this to the conclusion:

In my view, monogamy is also failing due to the prevalence of Facebook, smartphones, and other technologies that make it far too easy to surreptitiously hook up with exes. When a woman has been with a man for a couple years and is going through a tough or boring period with him, she can easily start a Facebook chat with her old boyfriends or crushes. The very low friction required for women to begin an affair today is corrosive to conventional relationships. For most women, social media is like crack, and most women lack the willpower to say “no.” This world of easy sex-on-demand is revealing all the cracks in the facade of monogamy. Social media is revealing the many problems with elite institutions, a topic dealt with in The Revolt of the Public by Martin Gurri—a book players should read, though it is not directly applicable to the game.

Social media weakens existing relationships, increases non-monogamy, and also makes it easier to discover cheating. In this environment, consensual non-monogamy makes more sense than ever. Many guys fantasize about a monogamous relationship with a woman, but they fail to realize that few women will remain in a long-term monogamous relationship with them. We’re only just now coming to terms with the way social media tears apart relationships of all kinds. But as old relationships and bonds dissolve, new ones will take their place. What will those look like? What should those look like?

As we learn about why and how monogamy doesn’t work, we also have to ask what comes after monogamy. This book is a partial answer to that question, although I haven’t framed it as such until now.

By now, people are recognizing that social media is changing almost everything about social and political dynamics in our society. How thoroughly these dynamics have been and are being changed is still not widely appreciated. When a woman has infinite, on-demand access to her exes at will, monogamy is not going to endure. Even many players haven’t fully understood these implications yet.

But don’t fear, the bulk of the book is “how to” and “how to do this” rather than being jerk-off philosophizing.

It’s conceivable I’ll publish the book within a week or two of today, depending on how quickly other beta readers get back to me. I thought the book would be shorter than it has been and I thought it would take me less time to put it together, but many questions and observations have revealed missing segments that I’ve been trying to fill. I can’t make any timeline promises because this is a totally peer-to-peer process. I’m not going to charge for the book and am not paying anyone reading it, so paid work takes priority.

Female “friends:” the comprehensive statement.

Experienced guys can quit this post right now, as it’s about an obvious topic, so you don’t need to read it. But it comes up with such frequency online that I want one, comprehensive discussion of it.

A guy on Reddit says, “Anyone else find themselves increasingly distant from female ‘friends’?”

Those scare quotes around “friends” are good. The guy goes on, “Have you guys also found it more and more difficult to have girls around who are only friends? I struggle to see how other guys have girls around only as friends (unless they’re ugly).” He’s right. If a guy is around a girl he finds attractive, he should make a move on her within the first week of meeting. Maybe slightly longer in some situations, like if they go to school together and will be forced into a lot of proximity.

One of the commenters said something smart,

Almost none of those women you call “friends” are friends, in the sense that they are loyal, caring, trusted people in your life. They are people who know you, and may occasionally hang out with you.

But you would be less than nothing to them the instant you start to be a social drag on them. Most people are that way, so it is not necessarily a woman thing. It is just that, in my experience, very few men are any good at being a friend, and almost no women are.

As a young and stupid guy, I liked being “friends” with hot chicks because it meant I hadn’t yet been told, definitively, “no.” So I would grind away much of that initial attraction, if any existed at all, by hanging around the hot chick and not making a move. I achieved a paradoxical situation: I found it very easy to lay out girls I was a little bit attracted to, but very hard to get with chicks I was highly attracted to. With chicks I was a little attractive to, I would do almost perfect push-pull, hot-cold game, without knowing what I was doing. I genuinely didn’t care, so I’d run great game and generate loads of attraction. With girls I was attracted to, I’d simultaneously supplicate and avoid making a move.

With girls I was a little bit attracted to, I was an unconscious game expert, dribbling out just the right amount of attention to hook her. I wasn’t very concerned about how good I was in bed, which made me better in bed because I wasn’t worried and became focused on the moment.

With hot girls, girls I thought were truly “top tier” (a stupid thought), I would do the opposite: timid, scared to make the move, worried about offending her, worried about being told “no.” It took me too long to realize that “no” is great. When I hear a firm “no,” I can give up on that girl and go find a girl to say “yes.” A firm “no” from a chick who means it is actually advantageous to guys.

To guys who are into smashing hot chicks, that is. To guys who are afraid of being rejected, “no” hurts. Most guys who are attracted to their female “friends” aren’t friends. They are too scared to make a move. They are better off making the move, getting to “no,” and then moving on.

I also hadn’t realized that, if I’m not f**king her, chances are that someone else is. Most chicks are being f**ked by someone. Hot chicks, medium chicks, even a lot of ugly chicks. If that hot chick is going to f**k someone, it might as well be me. I wish I had internalized that concept at a much younger age.

When a guy propositions a girl for sex or starts kissing her and she says no, he doesn’t need to make a big deal about it. In fact, the less big a deal he makes, the better. She has been honest with him, and that is good. He doesn’t have to have a “friend breakup” talk. He just needs to direct his attention in more useful directions. Stop texting her, stop the unsolicited contacts. If you see her around, say hi and be cordial. Just don’t increase intimacy. Don’t do one-on-one hangouts. When you find a girl you can bang, you won’t remember why you had it for some girl you couldn’t. You’ll naturally lose interest in the unavailable chicks, because you’re too busy being deep in a chick who is available.

Friendship also thrives on mutual interests. For a lot of guys, their female “friends” are girls they’d really like to fuck. Remove the horny from the situation, or realize that you’re not going to fuck her, and what’s the basis left for the friendship?


Your time is finite 

Every guy has 16 waking hours in the day. Time spent with female “friends” is usually not time spent getting laid or being in the gym or hitting on chicks or otherwise improving his life. Most guys who are “friends” with hot girls, are merely providing value to the girl while getting nothing in return. If the guy demands equal value in return, the girl hops to the next male “friend.” This kind of behavior becomes bad for women over time, as older women will eventually lose the beta males who provide this guy of free attention, but for women in their teens and well into their late 20s, using one kind of guy for attention and validation and another kind of guy for sex is common.

Telling a 20-year-old-girl that she won’t be able to get away with this when she’s 34 is not going to work or mean anything to her.

In my last two years of school, I got in with a couple of party girls who’d get tons of party invites, and, although I wanted to f**k them, they were genuinely good sources of other leads. I’ve seen guys say, “But girls look at me differently when I’m out with a hot girl!” But do you bang those girls? Putting your dick inside a girl is the real test of anything related to the game, like profit and revenue are the true tests in business. In business, many people will say, “Oh that sounds like a cool product / service.” Do they pay for it? Then they mean it. Do they think someone else might pay for it? Then they do not. Talk is cheap.

Being “friends” with a hot girl seems to get most guys very few lays, from what I can tell. Yes, it might be easier to get warm intros, but most of the time a hot girl trying to pass off her male “friends” to other chicks is not going to succeed. Other girls are like, “If he’s so great, why aren’t you dating him?”


With those two girls towards the end of school, I wanted to bang them, but I didn’t… and I didn’t care that much. This was a rare circumstance where being the hot girl’s friend led to me getting laid. But by then, I’d also gotten used to meeting chicks and escalating. Meeting chicks at college parties is the easiest thing in the world. Eventually I started dating one, and that was around the time I really got over my fear of “no.”

Anyone who is old enough will remember ladder theory from the earlier days of the Internet. It’s kind of stupid but gets the basic idea that women by and large put men into two categories, one for potential sex and one for everything else, including “friendship.” Men mostly want women for sex. I have very some female friends, but they’re women I’ve either had sex with before or don’t want to have sex with. If a guy genuinely doesn’t want to have sex with a woman… and she brings genuine skills or insight to the table… then being friends is fine. Being friends because you don’t have the balls to try and f**k her is bullshit.

Weak ties and random reinforcement schedules 

Despite all that, I’m not opposed to guys having loose connections with, or to, attractive women in relationships. Most guys figure out that chicks keep a stable of possible boyfriend alternatives in silent reserve (high-quality guys learn to do the same thing). When a chick is ready to leave boyfriend #1, or when she gets dumped by him, she’ll often leap, or “branch swing,” to a new guy. So it’s not a terrible idea to put yourself in place to be that new guy.

Thing is, you don’t need to spend hours and hours with a chick to be that guy. Being cordial to her when you see her is enough. A very occasional coffee. You can invite her to stuff you’re already planning to do, like going to the gym or a (normal) party / drinks. A little time goes a long way. If she’s hot and has a boyfriend she won’t cheat on, you can position yourself to be next in line. But “less is more” in this situation, and if you get too close to her you’ll be a feminized “I see you as a brother” friend.

This kind of weak-tie situation is not a total time suck and it might not be a total waste of time. You can cultivate a lot of weak ties without a lot of time spent. These strategies shouldn’t be part of your primary effort to get chicks, but it can be part of the background effort. Some hot chicks spend very little time being single, just like high-quality guys. They have backups in mind. It isn’t terrible to have a weak tie with a hot chick, so that when her breakup hits, you can hit her up for a drink, even as most of your mating energy goes into finding, cultivating, and banging new chicks.

Remember that chicks also like social proof. If a weak-tie chick sees you banging hotties, she’ll know that you’re in the hottie-banging business and will hit you up for that service when she’s ready. If she sees you desperate for her, desperate for what she’s not going to give you, you’re demonstrating lower value and turning her off.

For guys who moan about their time in the “friend zone,” they usually spend hours and hours with an attractive chick, not realizing that all those hours are just decreasing his overall attractiveness. A little distance and mystery will do more for him than being her emotional tampon. It seems that some guys think “Don’t cultivate women you find super attracted as close friends” means that you have to rude to women, or cut them out entirely. You don’t, not necessarily. But they should not be a primary social outlet for you. They should at most be a secondary or tertiary social outlet.

Social media thrives on random reinforcement schedules:

We begin with the first force: intermittent positive reinforcement. Scientists have known since Michael Zeiler’s famous pecking pigeon experiments from the 1970s that rewards delivered unpredictably are far more enticing than those delivered with a known pattern. Something about unpredictability releases more dopamine…. Technology companies, of course, recognize the power of this unpredictable positive feedback hook and tweak their products with it in mind to make their appeal even stronger.

(This is also why you should avoid social media.)

So: if you’re going to be in loose contact with that hot chick, be intermittent. You don’t need to reply to her right away. You’re a busy guy. You don’t need to view her stories or whatever. Maybe you’ll shoot her an occasional message to get a coffee, a drink, hit the gym together, etc. But keep it very occasional.

One theme of this blog is that different strands and techniques in game feed into each other. Work enough strands and something will come through. Plus, work enough strands and they’ll work together to make a rope. One strand is weak. Several together can be strong.

As I’ve gotten older, I’ve observed some of the “friend zone” in reverse, in which women will maintain friendships with men in hopes of getting the man to invest in her fat self and especially her fatherless children. This isn’t a great look for the woman, and it reflects the way male sexual value frequently peaks later than female sexual value. It seems that younger guys have problems with female friends, and older guys learn 1. what true friendship is, 2. not to hide our dicks, and 3. if she isn’t f**king me, she probably isn’t important to me.

With all that context, however, it’s possible for high-value guys to have female friends, if they’re already getting all the sex they want from other sources. I have (had? can’t tell right now) a lover nicknamed Ms. Slav, and I would not be surprised if we shift towards a friend/mentor role. I like her in a lot of ways, but I have other lovers who are in some ways more compatible than she is. The age gap, combined with her interests and proclivities, mean that we might not be suitable as lovers. Like the girls I knew at the end of college, she is an interesting person AND I am getting about as much sex as I want, so we wouldn’t be “friends” with me quietly hoping she comes around to sex with me. We’ve already been lovers, and I’m not accepting a fake “friendship” as a second- or third-best option.

In my own life, the highest-value guys have very rarely had problems with “the friend zone.” If a chick won’t f**k them, they move on. Lower-value guys should do the same thing. Attention is the only tool modern guys have, and most guys waste it. No guy needs to be rude to a woman who rejects him, so it’s not like he can never say hi when she passes on the street, but he should withdraw attention. She’s not his friend. We all have internal mechanisms that make us want to lie to ourselves about all sorts of things. Being true to yourself and accepting the Red Pill is about not lying to yourself. When you don’t lie, you can assess your own weaknesses, assess how to fix them, and assess what you really want (as opposed to what you think you’re supposed to want). You may not entirely know what you want, or you may have multiple, conflicting desires. I have that problem right now. But I also acknowledge it and am aware of it. Not all problems can be solved. The female “friend” problem? That one’s easy to solve.

Most women also make for terrible friends. There are exceptions, of course, but most guys with female “friends” are lying to themselves about what’s really going on.

Ms. Slav party night

I went to a party with Ms. Slav on Saturday night, and Ms. Slav was on good behavior. Or she was genuinely interested in hooking up with this chick, which she did for a long time, with me participating for a lot of it. Regardless of motives, things went well. Ms. Slav was more solicitous than she has been. She was a little tired herself, and I was a lot tired… the “tired” came from Home Friend the night before, but I didn’t share that with Ms. Slav. Ms. Slav was also a bit more subdued, and she let herself be led more easily.

Later on, we left and got some food, and then went back to my place. I was ready to crash, but Ms. Slav wanted to chat. She asked me to be her primary partner. And I froze… and then punted… I have seen less of her in the last month than I would like. I asked what makes her ask now, and I told her that I’d been thinking about this exact issue. She said that I’m willing to let her be free and that I’m more reliable than anyone else she’s met. Fuuuuccccckkkkkkk… “reliable” is synonymous with “boring” in girl-speak. Particularly young-girl-speak. Ms. Slav could tell I wasn’t happy with that description, although I tried to hide my initial response, and I didn’t quite want to tell her that “reliable” means “boring,” but I was dancing around that idea some.

We had a long talk about reciprocity and how, from my perspective, she’d been out f**king everyone under the sun… and she said that I would never have met Peaches if not for her (somewhat true, but less than she thinks), and that I should have “checked” with her first. I explained that I hear what she’s saying, but that, again from my perspective, she seems to be splitting hairs.

This is the girl who doesn’t experience jealousy and who opposes drama. Like I said in an earlier post, push hard enough and we’re all hypocrites in some way. Ms. Slav isn’t ready to acknowledge her hypocrisy. I don’t think she can even see it. I think she’s too deep in her own worldview to perceive it. She stuck to her story.

I debated telling her about Home Friend on Friday. I know she won’t like me f**king Home Friend. I know she won’t like finding out that I f**ked Home Friend later. But Ms. Slav is going back to her home country for a couple weeks shortly, and I don’t know what will happen when she returns. I don’t know what I want to happen. The last couple months have been so debauched, like I wonder if this is a kind of last hurrah for this part of my life. But I’ve built up all these skills and connections… there is a part of me that thinks it would almost be a waste to stop now.

I’ve written about this previously, but for a long time my mind was congruent: I love f**king, I like group sex, let’s just do as much as I can, as often as I can, while still maintaining my other duties and responsibilities. Now I’m more ambivalent, more divided, and less sure of what the focus of my life should be. I don’t think it’s an accident that I began writing online around the time I began feeling ambivalent. When my mind was united, I felt less need to share or explain. And my job soaked up pretty much every spare moment and thought. Now my role has changed and I have more time, but maybe more time isn’t so good for me after all. I have been blessed with many extraordinary experiences and opportunities. I will never be one of those people who looks back at their sex life and thinks, “I wish I had had the courage to try this, this, and this.” I have tried it all. For the good, sometimes for the less good. I have learned much. Some of that I am passing on. I wonder who will do what I do, in the next generation. The non-monogamy culture is out there. Players who combine it with game can achieve extraordinary things, as most guys in the scene lack game, and most guys who have decent game do not know about the scene, it seems.

With Ms. Slav, I left the “primary partner” discussion tabled. I think she may leave, and lose interest (time away is deadening for any woman, but especially a fizzy young girl), and by the time she comes back the problem will have solved itself. Ms. Slav thinks we fit well together because I have been superficially less judgmental of her behavior than others have. In reality, I know that chastising girls is largely useless. I know that Ms. Slav is the sort of girl who is going to have to discover principles of reciprocity the hard way. I’m enjoying the ride… I’m not in it for the long term.

Sunday morning she spent a long time going down on me. We went out for coffee. She went home, I went back to my place for a nap. In the afternoon I began writing this pair of posts. I need to get myself back to a more normal, rhythmic schedule. This weekend has been crazy.

Independent date with Ms. Slav’s friend from home

Friday night I saw Ms. Slav’s friend from her home country… we’ll call her Home Friend. She’s been hitting me up, although I did extend the invitation to dinner. Pretty straightforward deal, she took a car over, and I meant to have dinner first and then f**k her… instead, we spent like an hour and a half f**king in various configurations. I didn’t last very long during the first penetrative session, as she is young and so so tight. And… she told me that she has an IUD now. We know what that information, volunteered, means. I spent a long time on foreplay, warmup, spanking, etc., based on her feedback from last time and the fact that she’s complained about college guys being in a hurry to get in her and then not in a hurry to get her off. So I deliberately took a long time with her, ramping her up from normal-world psychology to sex-world psychology.

I’m not sure if, the first time Ms. Slav and I had a threesome with Home Friend, Home Friend was a kind of peace offering because of Ms. Slav’s sex rampage. Or if Ms. Slav genuinely wanted Home Friend to have a good sex experience, which she seems not to have had. Home Friend seems to be very interested in sex with men, but has not had satisfying sex with men. She also seems to like somewhat gentler sex than some girls… like Ms. Slav… Home Friend likes it very firm, but not as violent as Ms. Slav likes. Home Friend is more normal than Ms. Slav, except taht she has Ms. Slav as a friend and influence, and Ms. Slav spreads her high sexual charge to whoever is around her. Most girls are followers, and if their environment is sexually charged and sex positive, they become more sexual. If their environment is prudish and sterile, they become more prudish and sterile. Skilled players learn to create an environment that is sexually charged without being too overt, direct, or gross. Most chicks are creatures of the imagination, rather than visually-oriented creatures like men.

With Home Friend, I bought her a vibe and told her to use it on her clit while she was bent over and I was f**king her, and the results were spectacular. She said, “Sex with you is amazing.” It’s always flattering when a chick says that, but I don’t think it is. I’m competent, and she’s just used to super young, inexperienced guys. Probably with one or two super young, semi-experienced guys who still take their cues from porn. I don’t know how many guys she’s f**ked. I don’t really care, either.

I’m just calmer, more directive, and more knowledgeable than most young guys, who take too many cues from porn. Porn primarily caters to male tastes, desires, and fantasies… and professional porn very rarely represents the buildup normal chicks need. Home Friend and I talked quite a lot about that. I told her that, with young inexperienced guys, she needs to train them to do what she wants. She resisted that idea, which is not surprising because she is lackadaisical and doesn’t even know herself. Ms. Slav is much more advanced and mature than Home Friend. But I gave her some pointers about how to express herself without being dominant and gave her some suggestions for videos to watch with guys she likes but who are bad in bed.

Most men have to learn how chicks work through trial and error (like I did). It would be nice for chicks to take guys aside and be like, “Do this, this, and this, and think that, that, and that.” But chicks hate leading or educating in bed, and most guys don’t try to learn what to do or how to slow down, figure out the chick’s feedback loops, etc. Truly a situation that foments frustration.

Home Friend did have several incredible, whole-body-shaking orgasms from cunnilingus. The kind where she can’t talk for a few minutes after. The kind that bonds a girl to a man. After each one of the monster orgasms, I either f**ked her some more (my last orgasm I didn’t think I could have… I thought I was spent… but feeling her p***y around my fingers and her moans and the feel of her body coming got me up for one more round). It took Home Friend a lot of time to lose her nervousness. I’ve been through the process of breaking in sexually inexperienced girls a bunch of times, so I was accepting of her nerves, and that made the whole thing flow better.

With the “sex with you is amazing comment,” basically, she’s inexperienced and is mistaking competence with being “amazing.” I have some tricks and techniques available and am good at reading the feedback loop between her and me. She reads that as being amazing. She also said that guys her age would rather play videogames than f**k girls. This might be flattery towards me… or it might be true… I can’t say. She seemed surprised by me being uninterested in professional sports or TV shows. We talked about life’s highest and best experiences and how those are rarely mediated by screen. I have a sort of “guru” spiel that I’ve given too many times. Chicks listen to it in the post-sex, good-feeling moment… and the next they’re back on Instagram and Facebook, pissed off that Becky has such a good picture of her in a bikini on a beach vacation. Why isn’t MY life like that???

Saturday morning I sent Home Friend on her way. She wants to make plans with me for next week, but I have Peaches scheduled for Tuesday (thankfully not Monday, today, as I need a break). Saturday night I went out with Ms. Slav. Awkwardly, Home Friend was messaging me while I was with Ms. Slav. Fortunately, I make it a practice of not looking at my phone and even turning it to do-not-disturb mode, so the one did not see the messages from the other.

I don’t think Home Friend and I mentioned Ms. Slav at all. A chick may be inexperienced, but that does not mean she is not devious or wicked. Home Friend has communicated a lot to me about who she is and what she’s about. What a girl does to others, she will eventually do to you. Many guys want to ignore this basic lesson in the heat of passion and in the positive feelings from railing a new chick. But the hottest passion inevitably cools… who are you left with then? For my purposes with Home Friend, it doesn’t matter… and Home Friend doesn’t have the experience t perceive this. Plus, she has her own dualistic mating strategy to contend with, in which she wants investment from the kind of men who are least likely to invest in her.

Home Friend doesn’t ANY pics or videos, so I’m guessing she’s used to opsec. I want em, but she’s firmly resistant. Most chicks can be persuaded and find sex tapes flattering. Not this one. Not right now. Seriously. I have no pics of her and haven’t friended her Facebook and she hasn’t friended me. Very unusual behavior for young chicks. Ms. Slav has said Home Friend loves social media, too, and that Home Friend is on it all the time.

Except with me.

I told Home Friend to stop dating college guys cause they’re convenient and to get online. Most girls, from what I hear, are too inept to do this. We also talked about how to get guys to talk about their sexual interests and experiences (she seemed surprised to be getting advice about how to date other guys from a guy she’s f**ked… I think she is used to mate guarding). Inexperienced guys won’t be able to talk much about sex or, most importantly for Home Friend, foreplay. Ms. Slav seems to need less foreplay than the average girl. It’s fun to make Ms. Slav wait, but after five minutes she’s wet and ready. Home Friend likes much more prolonged foreplay and, from what I can tell, penetrative sex is much better for her after she’s come once already.

Chicks, man. They’re all different. I wish I’d known when I was younger. But when I was younger, I was like a lot of high school and college boys… the ones Home Friend is disenchanted with… always pressed for time and space, always worried about someone walking in, always stuck in a car or in some other uncomfortable spot. A weekend alone could be a luxury oasis.

I’m not going to lie: I’ve thought about doing a branch swing from Ms. Slav to Home Friend. The risk is that 1. Ms. Slav may be extremely mad and cut both of us off—an outcome that would not kill me but that I do not yet favor. 2. Home Friend may prefer me as undercover lover to official going steady guy. 3. Home Friend is getting attached TOO fast. 4. Overall, Home Friend is less mature than Ms. Slav, I judge. 5. I don’t want to be in an in-depth relationship with a girl her age, however tight she is.

What I’m doing with Home Friend is unethical in the context of non-monogamy, or at the very least against the spirit of what we are doing. Guys in the game learn what rules should apply to wingmen, e.g. the guy who opens calls the shots. The guy who opens two girls, gets to chase the girl who most interests him, and the other guy has to let the opener chase first. Otherwise, the two guys are going to have crossfire problems and piss each other off. In non-monogamy, whoever brings a person in doesn’t have control over that person exactly, but should have priority over the secondary person. Ms. Slav should have priority over Home Friend, but I have not given that to her (that is what I discuss in Priorities and Ms. Slav’s challenges in non-monogamy). In my defense, Ms. Slav has f**ked a million people in the last several months. Ms. Slav has not been following priority rules, so I haven’t done that either. Once you start down this path, it’s hard to stop it. Not impossible. I have seen couples pull back, have a reconciliation, and agree to prioritize properly in the future. Ms. Slav may be like that. To make a primary partnership arrangement work, each person has to quell their immediate passion and ensure the other person is prioritized. Otherwise, the arrangement fails.

Home Friend also illustrates how the first bang is always the hardest. After the first bang, you’re a known quantity and you don’t “count.” For this reason, I’ve had many chicks swing around like a comet, banging me when they’re between boyfriends or horny, etc.

Ms. Slav may also be swinging around to greater interest in me (see next post), but do I feel the same of her? Less so. Age disparity is too great. Unless I just want to keep spending my life f**king and chasing chicks. Maybe I do. But I’m not so sure. It’s less satisfying than it was. Don’t get me wrong, f**king Home Friend was great. But in a way, it also feels like season 6 of a TV show, when the writers have pretty much exhausted the initial premise.

I’ve been thinking seriously about having one more kid. I could like throw a rock down the street and hit half a dozen thirty-year-old women who’d go for it. Some into yoga and crossfit enough for me to go for them. I know how ridiculous this sounds given my adventures of the last two years. Ten years, though I’ve been writing pretty steadily for the last two. But there is something unsustainable about what I’m doing now. I could keep it up for another bunch of years. Do I want to, though? Maybe there is nothing beyond f**king a lot.

It would be poetic justice if I decided to pursue that course, looking for someone to have one more kid with, only to find that I can’t find an acceptable woman to go for it. Or find that I find women… who just want to use me for sex. That has happened before. I already have some candidates in mind, but you never know till you jump out the plane whether the chute’s really going to deploy when you pull the ripcord.

I forgot to wash and change the sheets between Home Friend on Friday and Ms. Slav on Saturday. Or I didn’t bother? If Ms. Slav noticed she didn’t say anything.

Girls with high numbers

As usual, Nash arrives with a lot of perceptive comments, in response to this post, and I have so much to say in return that I’m just going to foreground it all here. If you don’t read that link first, most of what follows will not make sense to you.

> I would assume you don’t buy the “girls lose the ability to bond when they have X number of sex partners” argument.

Actually, I think that’s true for the average girl, who just gets f**ked up by too many partners. But there are some girls who have hindbrain/forebrain agreement and can seem to do it.

The bigger problem for those girls is that most guys, even sex-positive man-slut guys like me, don’t want to bond with the most promiscuous girls. “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”, that kind of thing. And it’s often tough for girls to put their partners first. Tough, but not impossible.

So is it true on average? Yeah. But it’s probably less true in the sex-positive community, where a structure for this thing exists.

Ms. Slav seems very uninterested in the concept of “quality men.” This is part of what bothers me: she lets too much of her value go. Riv likes to say men build their value, women protect their (pre-existing) value. Ms. Slav is not quite good enough at that, for my taste. This goes back to the idea of sex-positive, sexually experienced girls finding it hard to get primary partners. Even within the open-relationship and sex-club scene, there are some rules and principles. If a girl is not going to put a primary man first, she is not likely to find and keep one.

Even I am focused on value and reciprocity. Even girls in the scene find casual sex easier than longer-term bonding.

Nash also wonders if Ms. Slav is “damaged goods,” or if she will become that way. I can’t tell. Not yet. I think most chicks who are “damaged goods” cannot accept their past or reconcile their sexual proclivities with their higher-order thinking. Ms. Slav seems to have aligned forebrain/hindbrain. For that reason, I don’t think she’ll turn out as “damaged goods.” No guarantees, obviously.

A girl who is sex positive and likes to have a lot of sex with a lot of partners, and can admit that to herself and not be ashamed of it, will probably not turn out be damaged goods. Unusual goods, yes. But not damaged.

I’m somewhat hesitant to write about Ms. Slav as much as I have, because she is so unusual. A typical girl would generate less commentary from me.

While I’m not jealous per se, I do want to see people behave by the correct rules and principles. I try to impart those rules and principles to Ms. Slav. She has not totally absorbed them, however. I’m fine with group sex and non-monogamy if value is being exchanged for value. Ms. Slav is throwing the value equation out of whack, and I see it, and it makes me unhappy.

>>Separately: I read American Gods by Gaiman a few years ago (so-so book). He has a character called Pandora. She is like a lovely, predatory courtesan… she “consumes you” as you fuck her. And the character never came off as malevolent to me.

Maybe… maybe somewhere… there is a highly-sexed girl (as in 50+ partners) that comes out at the level of “sex goddess,” giving herself in this open, radiant way, year after year, with no corruption.

I am open to the concept… but I have never seen it.

I have seen it, I believe. Ms. Slav may be like this. I am thinking of another woman I was seeing for a while who has this kind of quality. Some of these women are just very independent and don’t want to conventionally pair-bond. They don’t want kids. They have self-sustaining, good jobs. It’s not super common, but I have seen it. Ms. Slav may be like this. She has a lot of work ethic. Her family is very rich, too.

I think some women like this become escorts. Why not make big bucks for doing something you’re already doing for free? Kind of like how a lot of amateur porn is now being made under the aegis of Pornhub’s Verified Amateur program. Why give it away, when you have something valuable enough to make a few bucks at it?

I don’t know what will happen with or to Ms. Slav. She is at least seven years away from thinking more seriously about kids and family. More likely ten years. A long time for me. An ocean for a girl her age.

What I’m up to isn’t for everyone. Yet many players are implicitly doing this. Sexually adventurous chicks are surely more responsive to players than sexually non-adventurous chicks. You probably aren’t getting many girls of this type among introverted Asians, however. Maybe some Japanese girls. I have heard about the kink clubs in Japan.

What flaking looks like, from a woman’s perspective

What flaking looks like, from a woman’s perspective,

8:30 p.m. It’s a pretty mellow scene but of course I know how to spot the one bad seed. Surprise, surprise, it’s one of the bartenders. He has a twinkle in his eye and we are flirting. I try to nurse one glass of red wine, sipping very slowly. I ask the bartender, “Is this as fun as it gets out here?” And boom, we’re off: He has the tiniest amount of cocaine and slips it to me with a cocktail napkin.

8:45 p.m. I finish his coke, which was not much, and just when I leave the bathroom, I make eye contact with my sister. I don’t think she knows anything but I just feel like shit. I don’t want to do more coke. Now I just want to go home and cry.

He may have been thinking same-night lay (SNL) and not gotten it. A few days later,

1:30 p.m. I get a seat at the bar. Without even asking what I want, the bartender delivers me his special bloody mary. Ah shit here we go. It goes down really nice … it’s a fucking delicious bloody. I order the veggie burger and take out my book. Another bloody arrives.

2:30 p.m. I’m drunk and my veggie burger was great. The bartender is off at 3. I tell him to text me when he’s done and that I’m going to go shopping on the street there. We all know where this is going….

2:45 p.m. I look at my phone as I leave the restaurant. A text from my ex: He wants to know if I want to take a warm trip together this weekend … he just found some deal to Turks. This is a total surprise! It throws me off. I walk back to my sister’s thinking about my options and totally forgetting about the bartender.

If this bartender posted to The Red Pill or a seduction forum, guys would ask about his stack. Is she invested enough? Is his game tight? Was his frame strong?

Some of them would say he’s being a beta b***h by giving her food and drink without her f**king him first.

The actual answer is internal to the chick. Her emotional state swerves and just like, the bartender is forgotten and she returns home un-f**ked. He was probably within an hour of f**king her, maybe less. Most external “game” analysis is irrelevant to this situation. I’m fond of saying chicks are random and this is an example of it.

What’s the difference between the bartender and this other guy?

I came home all fucked up at 6 in the morning, and I had had unprotected sex — one of the first and only times I’ve ever did that. The guy was some budding musician-rapper. I took the pill and dealt with it, but I was still disgusted with myself.

This musician-rapper was in the right place at the right time. The bartender was at the right place at the wrong time. One got the lay and one didn’t, with neither one having the “wrong” game in this chick’s view.

If the bartender posted online about the experience, most of the speculative analysis would be wrong. She was on the way to getting f**ked, but her emotional state changed and suddenly she wasn’t. Chicks live in a stew of emotions that most guys cannot comprehend. That’s part of what makes them bond to their own children very fast and part of what makes most of them poorly suited to most high-level corporate and government positions.

The right thing for the bartender to do is go hit on more chicks.

I emphasize this story not because it’s special but because it’s average. Same girl, different situations, different outcomes, for reasons outside the guy’s control. Novice players often don’t appreciate how random chicks are.