The positive, light-side frame, not the negative, dark-side frame

This turned into a non-actionable ramble, but it is a fundamental statement of my views and psychology… it emerged in response to this Nash comment, so if you want to understand the context, check that first.

In the RP and seduction communities, I get the sense that some guys (maybe most?) are kind of cold/damaged. They’ve failed too many times and are seeking revenge, or seeking to “get a free one” off chicks. Or to get a chick in the inferior position, so that HE has the power (for once) and will get to feel what it’s like to have arbitrary power over another person. None of those are good primary frames, in my view, even if they can be attractive at times.

I try to cultivate kindness… BUT not by being “nice” or weak. I’m not a niceguy. I’m very keen on reciprocity as a fundamental part of the human experience, and I’m cagey about people trying to steal value. “Nice” often means, “I will bleed so much value to you, that you’ll feel it necessary to return some to me, however reluctant you are.” That’s lousy game, but it’s game that some ignorant guys will try, particularly when they’re young; older guys learn this is ineffective and stop doing it. I will be very angry if someone tries to use me, or get one over on me, although in the modern world that means “withdraw attention” is usually the only option.

BUT. We’re stuck on this planet together, until Elon takes us to space, and I would like to make the world a better place. Game makes the world a better place, as chicks want to be seduced by competent guys and of course guys want to seduce hot chicks. There are some ways that our biologies have caused incentives to be mismatched between guys and chicks. To fail to acknowledge that would be stupid. Within that context, however, I try to create “win-win” wherever possible, while also acknowledging that, of course, sometimes it is not possible to do “win-win.” I try to find chicks who want the same. Chicks who aren’t win-win don’t have a long-term place in my life… they may have a short-term place, with their legs spread, but that’s it. Balaji says “As a guiding philosophy, ‘win and help win’ will always outcompete ‘live and let live’.”

“Win-win” means trying to make sure the chick has the opportunity to get off. It means holding her after, something most chicks love and crave, even from random one-offs. Even in group sex situations, it is common to hold the chick after… she’s had an intense experience, and needs to be helped down from it. It means I usually have some food around, so we can have a snack. Most chicks are too dumb or self-centered or incapable of planning ahead to do these things, but some are self-aware enough to do them. Remember that chicks are only as competent as they need to be, and most chicks don’t need to be very competent to get laid out by guys. A lot of chicks report most guys are not doing basic stuff, like guys holding the chick after sex or giving her a snack. Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not. Maybe it’s a factor of chicks trying to get guys +1 or +2 SMV compared to them, and then they get what they give.

I don’t like the view, even if it’s purely psychological, that the goal of seduction is to get one over on the chick, or to punish the chick for all the times a chick has been a bitch to the guy. The Geneva Conventions forbid group punishment; only individuals should be punished for bad behavior, not groups (one of the major problems with woke social justice warrior culture today is the propensity is target groups, not individuals). A guy should protect his value from chicks, or anyone, who will take it… but he should also try to be generous where and when possible. Especially in low-cost, high-value situations. Like holding a chick after he’s f**ked her. Simple thing that will make her experience much better. Chicks say they like generous guys and they aren’t lying: they like guys who are authentically, generous, though, not guys who are trying to run up implied debts and then exchange the implied debts for sex.

There are simple things that can make a chick’s life better: invite chicks to the gym… give her a book he thinks is good… etc. It’s both good for the chick and also gives you information about her. A basic, lazy ignorant chick is probably only good for one thing, and she can be mentally put into that one-thing bucket. I’ve had many chicks good for little outside of sex. A highly responsive chick might be good for other things, beyond sex. Most chicks who have little to offer apart from f**king think they have much to offer apart from it, which generates many moments of comedy. When you find a chick who also wants to make the world a better place, that is valuable information. When you find a chick who wants to wants to watch TV, eat junk food, and complain… that is also valuable information. Obviously there are many gradations between the two.

Many guys, I sense, never get to the stage where they are seriously evaluating the chick, and discarding the chicks who aren’t any good. So if they struggle and struggle, then get to the stage where they have choice… they are sometimes tempted to be mean to the chick. Experienced guys learn that is very rarely good. Most of the time, simple disconnection is the right response to mean, bad, lazy, or stupid chicks. Trying to be mean in return… is rarely a good idea. Sometimes it might be. But very rarely.

I sense that a lot of guys in pickup, seduction, RP (distinct communities at times, but I will put them together my purposes now) want to present a bravado front… look at me, the great player/wizard, with all these chicks before me… I can treat them like dirt, or at least not very well, and they still come back for me… and if she doesn’t come back for more, BEHOLD!, for she will be replaced by another chick, for I am the great player/wizard of seduction, ready to replace that chick.

OF COURSE, sometimes a chick should be replaced. Of course, a guy is only as good as his options. Of course, a guy should be seeking new leads if his plate is not totally full. BUT, he should also try to improve the lives of the chicks he’s f**king, if he can, to the extent he can, while making sure that he only acts in ways that the chick merits. If he senses even for a moment that the chick is using him, or is withdrawing because of his generative nature… then he must pull back.

Top chicks, especially top chicks who are mentally sound, will respond will to a generative person. F**ked up chicks may respond less well. But I want more mentally sound chicks in my life, and fewer messes. You get what you give… there are some exceptions to that principle, but over time and over many scenarios, it plays out.

Nothing is perfect, and I’ve often misjudged chicks and situations. But I still want my basic frame and mode of being in the world to be positive and to be building new and good things. That can be executed in many different ways… with a chick you’ve just f**ked, though, it usually means you should hold her after. People want to connect with each other. In some ways, we have a very “cold” society in which we’re heavily disconnected. I like game because it creates the connections people yearn for but often don’t know how to make for themselves, anymore.

Enough ramble… I could keep going. If guys want to see more of my not-immediately-actionable ramble posts, there is a tag for them.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

7 thoughts on “The positive, light-side frame, not the negative, dark-side frame”

  1. Great post. There’s a lot of hurt out there (and inside here, for many guys) – let’s not add to it. I always hold girls after sex, unless they clearly don’t want it. It’s something I want to give out to the world, not take from it. There’s a Buddhist meditation, can’t remember the name, where you imagine you are breathing in the pain of the world and blowing out joy, having transformed it. This meditation has no direct effect on the pain of the world, of course, but to the extent that it puts us in a loving, giving mood, it helps indirectly.


    1. I like the idea of breathing in the pain and blowing out the joy… as long as you’re not being taken advantage of. Too many of the “joy for all” type people also let themselves be taken advantage of. That is the balance of the thing. Try to make the world a better place, but also try to improve yourself, first, and make sure that other people aren’t unfairly tapping your value without offering anything in return.

      Default to kindness, but be ready to quickly revert to self-protection if need be.


      1. I like the idea of breathing in the pain and blowing out the joy

        I used to practice that tonglen practice that you describe many hours a day, every day, throughout the day. Starting as a teenager.

        Much much later I realized that it was a reversing the curl of the paper practice, and started to prefer a flat paper practice.

        I came to the opinion that there wasn’t any need to breath in pain.


  2. I can treat them like dirt, or at least not very well, and they still come back for me… and if she doesn’t come back for more, BEHOLD!, for she will be replaced by another chick, for I am the great player/wizard of seduction, ready to replace that chick.

    Sometimes it also comes down to competing interests and incompatible long term agendas. And I like your attitude of working towards win/win, overall and long term.

    I’ve gotten off on the thrill of power of women before. It is a rush. But also a double edged sword, because empathy. When women are broken hearted, that rubs off and into a man’s life. Not fun to to cause deep sorrow.


  3. This post does have some actionable advice, by my reckoning:
    Shoot for a “win and help win”, moving-forward-together mindset, as opposed to one where you’re trying to “extract value” or “get” something from a girl.

    Useful for younger guys who don’t realize they can bring value to the girl *just by giving her one of the best times in bed*, who don’t realize that it can be a win for the girl to “get” you just as much if not more than the inverse, and don’t realize they can take a cooperative mindset with it all.

    And then for those who realize it can exist, but don’t yet have the value built up, this is an encouragement call to keep working on your value and bring it up as much as you can.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I see what you did there…
    Reworked what was initially a comment under another post, into a new text. With better wording, fun, and examples…
    The result was yet another epic post – about how enlightened men can help make the world a better place, even if the actual theme is picking up girls.
    And all that during one Valentine’s day.
    Well done indeed.


    1. Gotta find inspiration where you find it… I most often find it in real life, but guys who leave comments and questions inspire material too…

      The free book was probably 55% of its current length in it first version, but guys asked questions that led to it filling out, to its present form.

      The couple of really good critics and readers I’ve had make me think it’s largely complete.


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