Two possible paths forward: Hedonistic partying vs children

I realized something else about Ms. Slav: I’m tempted by her because I think that, together, we could do a lot to build up the non-monogamous community and tell a lot of people about non-monogamy; that sounds grandiose, but hear me out. Like I wrote in this other post, you have to be cool / have status first. IMO I have reasonable status and Ms. Slav combines being young and hot with unusual intelligence and a total love of non-monogamy, sex clubs, group sex, etc. So much so that I was a little bit confused when I first brought her into the scene… most chicks need a fair amount of coaxing, coaching, help, etc. Ms. Slav just ran straight in, blew right past me, and is deep in.

Already, some of the non-monogamous dating we’ve done has been unexpectedly intense. Ms. Slav is a true bisexual, it seems, and likes to dominate women… a very powerful combination, since most women are submissive and reactive, so, when two bisexual women get together, they often fizzle because neither one will start things up… chicks are used to guys leading. Many bi chicks like couple-to-couple dating because the guys will guide the chicks into the hookup, which the chicks can’t manage on their own. One theme game guys learn is that a lot of chicks have trouble doing things without guidance/motivation/external stimuli… that may be why chicks do well in school and then don’t make it to the very top of workplaces, since top jobs demand autonomy and internal motivation, not just “do task a, then task b.”

Peter Thiel says that groups can get things done that individuals cannot. He is writing about companies, but that is true of other kinds of organizations, groups, and ideas too. We’re experiencing a feminist hellscape because lots of small groups of feminists got together in the 60s and 70s to figure out how they can extract more value from men, and they largely succeeded (their narrative is somewhat different than the one I have just presented, although the results are the same). I think I can do something similar with Ms. Slav… because she is hot, smart, and uninhibited, we could do a LOT of community-building in a way that I have not seen in other chicks.

Most people are only interested in their immediate needs and surroundings. Most guys who start to read the pickup literature, never do anything with it… the ones who begin practicing, most don’t write about it… the ones who write, most give up quickly… the ones who don’t, most don’t write books that might transcend their blogs… the number of guys who go beyond all that, is quite small. And usually they find themselves embedded in a group of some kind. One possible mistake I have made is not writing online sooner, although this might not have been a mistake, as I was focused on work and other matters and correctly anticipated that writing online could be a huge time sink with zero financial payoff. That anticipation has been totally correct. Importantly, though, Ms. Slav and I could built a large non-monogamy scene together, especially using couple-to-couple dating as an intake mode. Religious lunatics know that nothing beats person-to-person pitches… so do salesmen… real change happens one person at a time, ideally face-to-face (one weakness of guys writing on the Internet is that neither sees or knows each other… often one or both are full of s**t). I am tempted by doing that kind of messianic zeal with Ms. Slav, and I think she would go for it… she has the attributes for it, particularly if she’s led properly. She’s also young, though, and younger girls have weaker identities and are more prone to sudden shifts.

I’m tempted by her not just for the usual reasons (hot, lots of sex with other hot girls), but because she could be a powerful catalyst for showing other people the way. I have helped to host parties before… the two of us together could be a powerful locus for parties. I’m better organized than she is, not surprisingly, but she also LOVES non-monogamy like no other chick I’ve met, even Libido Girl. Or I should say, “Like no other hot chick I’ve met.” There are some desperate fat chicks who are eager to flaunt their sex positivity. Most chicks will not make crude propositions and come-ons to me, at least before first sex… but low chicks, like 5s and below, sometimes will. It is their only potential source of value, so they use it. Not interesting to me, but enough guys must be willing to take the zero-effort lay for it to work. And fat chicks, older chicks, chicks who aren’t very sexy… like attracts like, which I’ve been talking about too, so they typically can’t host good parties. You have to have a core nucleus of sexy chicks and cool guys to make a party work. Take away the sexy chicks, and the whole thing falls apart.

One sexy chick who can attract and retain other sexy chicks, and you have a potential core/nucleus for a larger group. I have seen this thing sort of start before… but the chicks I’ve been with have never had the right combination of personality, IQ, and desire. The typical chick still fundamentally wants a firm, one-on-one relationship with a cool guy, while the other things are secondary to that primary relationship. Very few chicks think bigger than themselves and their immediate surroundings. That’s true of some guys, too, but I’m not dating guys so I don’t give a f**k about that in these circumstances.

So yeah. I think that’s why I’m stuck on this point. I have a pretty clear question, or set of questions to answer… one way is to ease off the non-monogamy, group-sex thing, and work toward a kid. The other way is to join w/ Ms. Slav and go ALL. THE. WAY. To make the scene really happen. To leverage Feeld and other tools to meet a lot of people and to build a larger community.

If I had met Ms. Slav five years ago I think I would be doing this, or would have done this. Today, though, I feel my desire is not the same, and I am not as interested in building this kind of thing, compared to five years ago. I also recognize that my own desires seem to be shifting.

The trade-off is that doing this with Ms. Slav is not very compatible w/ having a kid. If you are going to comment and tell me how it is compatible w/ kids… please just stop, unless maybe you have had kids of your own… what people believe in theory is so far from what happens in practice, that I don’t want to hear it. Sorry.

Practically every guy on the Internet has some chick who is “not like” the other chicks… Ms. Slav is really not like other chicks. She somewhat knows, I know it.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

12 thoughts on “Two possible paths forward: Hedonistic partying vs children”

    1. It is absolutely tempting. That is why I am struggling. I know both paths pretty well… I don’t think very many guys know BOTH paths as well as I do. Many guys know one path OR the other path better than me.

      I have also seen guys do the hedonism/non-monogamy leader thing well. There is this question of what I want my life to fundamentally be about, and the question is more urgent now than it was ten years ago or even five years ago. I could MAYBE try to delay another five years and get away with it… definitely not impossible… but realistically some options do narrow over time.


    1. Exactly. And yeah, it’s possible to look for a potential mom while also f**king Ms. Slav… it’s just hard to do that, there are only so many hours in each day, etc. Not impossible, just somewhat harder. And I have been calibrated towards casual sex for so long that to re-calibrate seems strange.


      1. yeah. BTW as a younger guy I’m curious about your opinion on what age would is too old to become a new father ?

        I’ve often wondered how long I can realistically put off having children for adventure before I have to make the decision to look for a long partner that would be a good mother.

        While a guy in his late forties is still fertile I highly doubt younger fertile girls some of whom might still fuck him casually would be open to a long term relationship ?


      2. I don’t know that there is a firm “too old” age. But if, let’s say a guy has a kid when he’s 50, he’s going to be almost 70 when the kid graduates from high school. Most men also hit a “wall” of some kind, at some point. Chicks hit it earlier, but guys do too. The “when” is going to vary by guy… 40 is commonly cited… by 50, almost every guy.

        For younger guys, I’d say don’t even really think about kids till you’re 30 – 35.


  1. Watching your relationship with Miss Slav evolve has been fascinating.

    > You have to have a core nucleus of sexy chicks and cool guys to make a party work. Take away the sexy chicks, and the whole thing falls apart.

    Why try to develop the lifestyle when you could just start your own “club?” Or your own party (with a mix of locations)?

    To say it another way… Why not be more self-centered?

    It is increasingly clear to me that most great things are a cult of personality… it is about the leader, about his gravity. When the leadership changes, the spark is gone… Regardless of structure.

    If you see yourself staying in the scene for another 1-2 years, it sounds like you have all the makings of a completely customized party, where you are the King (social proof is an over trumped concept but you’d have that), you could make it completely invite only, and as the proper alpha of the party… It would personally fuel your sexlife.

    Women and couples would have to “apply” to come to your party, they would have to be “worthy”/chosen, and men that wants in would have to bring in the kind of quality of girl you want in your life or you’d have no incentive to include them. You could still sex-date on the side, and invite only the best to your party. You’d get a rep… And people would seek you out.

    You’d groom men to bring you hot girls.

    You and Slav could reign… And this could be the source of your next Miss Slav.


    1. I have thought about it, but it is very very difficult to really sustain your own club. As we all know, chicks are super flakey. Parties actually need to be no more than 60:40 girls:guys. If the ratio skews more towards chicks, the chicks will be unhappy and the guys will get exhausted. Most chicks won’t make the first move. Guys who are good… will bring in new chicks. Even the guy I called “The Bitch” is good at doing this. I think he’s just good looking, goes to a lot of events, and does online… but his looks seem to do most of his work for him, so it works.

      The guys who do run the parties, get opportunities through them. It is a kind of ultimate social proof. But running the parties also requires a lot of churn… a lot of effort to keep them going. To the point that they become full-time jobs. Almost full-time jobs.

      But yes, I have thought about doing that with Ms. Slav. And it would likely be the source of the next Ms. Slav. The trouble is that I am not as excited about doing this anymore. If I’d met Ms. Slav a couple years back, I would go all the way with her. But I didn’t.

      Ms. Slav is also more jealous than she lets on. So I might be anticipating something that wouldn’t work in implementation.

      I’ve not been meeting many women (any?) with whom I’d consider having a kid. Peaches, strangely, is most well-suited for that role, except for the obvious thing.

      We did have another foursome with this couple where the girl is really hot. Not a very interesting story, and even though I was excited in the midst of it, after I was still like, “Is that it?” A weird feeling, and one that I have been feeling more often lately.


  2. Just found this article, it reflects my own situation with my girlfriend. Very bisexual, very into 3somes with other girls. We’ve decided to focus on building a life together first and foremost (we’re both starting our own businesses now, and in 3-5 years plan to start travelling the world). We’ve toned down the casual sex in the last few months, instead focusing on finding girls we can retain and keep around (rather than going out each week and meeting new girls constantly).

    It’s a weird version of settling down for us. Seems to be working for us at the moment.

    I really enjoy your articles quite a lot. I have some free time over the next couple of weeks, so I’ll be reading through your site a lot more.


    1. Thanks dude, glad you find them useful/interesting. I think most functional non-monogamous people may go through a phase of fucking everything that moves, but eventually find a partnership of some sort and the extra girls/couples are a great addition to that foundation. Also, the sex is almost always better when it’s part of an ongoing thing, and you know each other’s bodies. There’s an optimal level of comfort and proximity against mystery and novelty.

      I think many guys on line are either young or inexperienced, so they don’t get that long-term tradeoffs exist… but the older you get, the more you’ve dated, the more apparent they become.


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