“The Woman Searching for the Lust She Didn’t Have Before” is more Red Pill advice, but from a woman… this one dumped her fiancé cause “He wanted to have kids right away, move to New Jersey, and just be basic and suburban together. He was a great guy but I would have died in that environment. I’m having so much fun now (more or less).” For chicks and relationships, “Boredom = death,” a fact many guys fail to realize, and chicks just want to have “fun.” Guys whose ideas of fun include security and basic provisioning are not attractive to the vast majority of chicks.
Simultaneously, this chick knows another woman, “She’s 40-something and still looking for ‘Mr. Right.’ I don’t see anything wrong with being single and 40 but I cannot imagine searching for the ‘right’ guy for 15 more fucking years. Life is too short for that!” Yet this chick is probably heading in that direction. Or who knows, she’s going to end up being “poly.” Whatever it is, there is an element of “as you sow, so you shall reap.”
A lot of chicks, when you really really listen to them, are Red Pill. They just don’t frame it the way Red Pill guys do. What chicks want and what guys really want to do fit together. The problem is that modern feminism and schools (feminist indoctrination camps) try to disable what people instinctually want… then people get in f**ked-up relationships that never really work.
It took me an incredibly long time to recognize the need for rough sex skills. That may be why an appreciable number of chicks prefer older guys, who have learned the ropes.
I was thinking about Short Dancer, a girl I saw on and off for like six or nine months, a few years back… on and off, because at the time I wanted her to come to the fleshpots with me and she would not, despite my persuasion work. I wish I’d been monogamous with her for a while, or “monogamous” in my case, as I think I liked f**king her better than just about any chick between now and then. If I had done that, though, this blog wouldn’t have the stories it does… even fewer people would read it than read it now. Despite the numbers and the experiences and the groups that I’ve done between her and today, I liked Short Dancer a lot, enough that I think I made the wrong decision with her, partially because I had a lot going on at the time, and, when I have a lot going on, it’s naturally harder to commit, even temporarily. Sometimes one great chick can be better than 10 okay or good ones… that’s why I think a lot of guys in the game quit it or take long breaks from it, when they find a girl they’re really into, who reciprocates the interest. When you have enough good, but not extraordinary, experiences with chicks, the best chicks become the reason you continue.
Short Dancer was young and in some ways has a conservative temperament… that may surprise you, since she was with me for a time… though in other ways, ways important to me, she does not, and the tension between those two was an interesting part of her personality. I kept trying to get her into a sex shop with me, for example, and she would not go… one time I picked her up in a fireman’s carry and made to bring her in, but her objections seemed to be genuine, so I put her down and we continued on our way. Apart from fleshpots, she accepted many of the things I wanted, and the sex with her was just about flawless… her beauty, her willingness, her submissiveness, her femininity… we had a great dynamic, better in some ways than w/ other chicks since then (which is why I feel like I made an error in letting her pass, to go chase other chicks who are often very good but not quite on the level of the thing we had).
Short Dancer came from an ecosystem, so there’s no game story around her, apart from me cultivating masculinity and making a move when the time was right. So few guys cultivate masculinity today. There’s also not a great story about why I like her more than other chicks… I just do. Good physical chemistry went a long way with her, plus, she also didn’t throw much in the way of shit tests and didn’t have the hot-young-chick disposition around relentlessly tooling guys, going to clubs/parties, etc. The chicks who like basic clubs, attention on social media, that kind of thing, I tend not to get along with them, even when I rope them in, and that could be part of the reason I found the Tinder experiment so awful.
Short Dancer is one of those girls who look even better nude than clothed… I wasn’t 100% sure what I was going to get when I undressed her the first time, but I got everything I might have wanted. She liked posing nude for me, and I like that… she showed some of the shots to a girl we mutually knew, and the other girl was like, “Wow.” Couldn’t believe it, even though the other girl is a too-heavy tramp, or maybe just an attention whore… hard to say. She was too basic for me. Short Dancer also really liked taking direction, even more than most chicks, which I also like.
No real lesson here, just some musing. When Short Dancer was in my life I felt pretty good. The age gap is too large for her to be a good long-term prospect. She is one of the very few girls I find occupying my head space… I jerk my attention away from her, but if I’m not careful it drifts back to her, in a way that it doesn’t drift back to most other chicks. At the time I don’t think I appreciated her, and I was still excited to go chase new chicks… something that I find myself less excited by right now.
In private someone asked if I’ve tried to get her back in… and I have! Unsuccessfully. She also had, maybe has, an official boyfriend, and both of us have complicated schedules, plus, now there is a distance challenge. We all make mistakes, and letting her go was one of mine… not one that I really consciously made at the time… I let her drift, and she sensed that I wasn’t going to do the monogamy she wanted. Red Pill doctrine incorrectly holds that chicks who you are “aloof” from are going to pine for you and keep coming after you forever… that is true of some chicks, but more functional, intelligent, and self-aware chicks who want a boyfriend/partner and do not get it from you, are going to cut you out and get it from someone else. They may boomerang back periodically based on what they’re finding, and based on guys who won’t make them their girlfriends, but when they find an acceptable guy who will commit, they will depart, and they may simply never talk to you again.
I miss Short Dancer… not something you hear on a lot of player blogs. Do most guys not miss particular chicks, or are they not willing to admit it? Genuinely don’t know the answer here. The best psychology is always oriented towards the future, so maybe guys wisely don’t dwell on the past. Yet many players online seem intent on maintaining a hard-ass facade.
“The Startling Rise of Choking During Sex” is not so startling… the massive success of 50 Shades of Grey demonstrates that women really, really, really, really like rough sex (not all of them, of course, but a whole lot of them). Guys learn to experiment with choking and find that, when done well, the chick enjoys it more and comes harder than she does without it… so the practise spreads… and now it’s mainstream and many chicks are disappointed if they’re not choked during the act. It’s so mainstream that the Atlantic writes about it. It’s more mainstream than dinner dates (most chicks hate dinner dates).
Guys who have read My Secret Garden already know the depths of female fantasy… but most guys just don’t get it, and women flit from guy to guy until they find one who does. To be sure choking can be hazardous and it has to be done deftly, and built up to… but done right, it bonds the chick to you more effectively (like going raw). It’s good to start by playing with her neck a little bit and asking how that feels, then lightly cupping her neck with her hand and seeing her response, and then move up from there. I’m sure lots of teenagers and young dumb guys try to mimic what they see in porn, with bad results that legitimately scare young and inexperienced chicks.
The Internet, amateur porn, game blogs, etc. also let the secret out… that chicks like to be choked. I remember the first time I had a chick put my hand around her throat… before I knew about the game, the forums, the blogs… I was like 23/24, and we were making out against a parked car after drinking at a bar. I was not 100% into her (I can’t recall her name) but didn’t have anything better going on at the time. We were there and then a f**king COP car pulled past us, and I stood back from her (quite a ways). The cop car stopped like half a block away from us and I just talked to her and that sort of thing, wondering WTF I was going to say to the police… but they started driving again after a minute or two. Who knows, maybe the cop(s) didn’t see anything and were stopping for some other reason… if I recall correctly the girl wouldn’t go home with me that night, and it took an outright date to seal it… but she was marginal and I think there was some SMV mismatch, as she was more into me than I was into her. I don’t recall if I was appropriately courteous to her afterwards… probably not, as I had worse manners then.
That chick was bold, but I didn’t have the mental framework necessary to integrate what she was communicating to me. That came later. I was startled when she took my hand and put it around her neck. Although I’d had a decent amount of sexual experience by then, I didn’t have the experiences or network to contextualize what that meant, or that the desire to be choked is common. Today I can’t pinpoint a single moment or experience when I realized women’s love of BDSM. Red Coco has a post about sex skills and I have one coming as well… there’s not much explicit commentary on this subject in the community and there should be more. I theorize that most guys are not actually getting laid much. Also, once a guy masters the toolkit, there’s a limited amount he can elaborate on it, and most of us forget how much we had to learn to get where we are today.
Today, there are also some explicit video websites that also have educational “how-to” videos on this subject. I don’t want to post links to them here as I believe that will hurt search engine rank, but you can find them yourself or contact me privately if you want some links.
“Sex is Sex. But Money Is Money.” This chick writes about being an escort… much of her experience is similar to what escort girls have told me, and it is a reminder of what life can look like for some younger-hotter-tighter chicks. Some chicks have the psychology to be escorts but many don’t, and the ones that don’t really really suffer if they try or succeed.
A lot of chicks get f**ked up mentally and emotionally and sometimes physically by escorting… but for the ones who have the body and personality for it, it can be an insanely easy way to make a lot of money. Straight men can’t earn substantial money from straightforward sex work, like women can, an aspect of female privilege no one talks about.
I think guys, even players, don’t 100% appreciate what the wild life of a hot young chick can look like, if she chooses it to be wild. This is also why some older, once-hot chicks get so bitter… they remember the days when hordes of men gave them money, attention, status, anything at all… and the contrast with the men who are available to them when they’re older, less hot, etc. Smart chicks see this coming and plan accordingly, but a whole lot of chicks don’t, and age smacks them in the face, hard. Not the good kind of hard either.
Being an escort, like being a player, can also be super lonely. Other chicks fear, hate, and envy the escort… guys mostly just want to f**k super hot chicks, so most hot chicks aren’t real friends with straight men… also, somewhat contrary to what you read online, most sex workers know that being a sex worker is still taboo and will have severe social ramifications if/when news gets out. So it can be isolating. This is why “seeking” or “sugar” relationships are attractive, as a guy in his 40s or 50s can pose as a pseudo-boyfriend, which is a little weird, but is more socially acceptable than f**king three or more new guys a week. Any time a girl (or a guy for that matter) who can lie about or obfuscate the sex-for-money thing, she will.
There are more sex workers in the sex club / non-monogamy space than in the regular world… or they’re more open about it, because almost everyone in that space is already sex-positive and acknowledges that humans love to f**k and we should f**k more. I think sex workers can like non-monogamy because the people are far less judgmental and far more welcoming… it becomes a community, something that sex workers need because many traditional communities will reject their work and who they are as a person. Escort girls can even be competitive with each other.
I wasn’t going to post on the blog about this, but the story seemed to touch a nerve on Twitter, so I’ll memorialize it here. Escort girls are also entrepreneurs / consultants, and many people are not cut out for that role, and are better off working for someone else.
A guy wants to know why I wrote that the two chicks from Tinder don’t really count… I don’t have a hard ruleset for who “counts,” and the principles drift over time: for these two, one girl was hot but also kind of dopey, and I can’t tell how much she liked me against how much she was trying to pump me for information about how to be a prostitute, while a real proper lay in my view has to be about two people who like each other, or like each other enough to f**k. I’m not convinced that I liked her enough, or she liked me enough, or that there wasn’t some financial value exchange going on… felt a little too much like consulting. I’ve also been on a couple dates in my life with younger chicks who were basically pumping me for career advice (if you go on enough dates with enough chicks, weird shit happens). It’s possible that I could have kept with her longer, not done the “nuclear” version of asking her to do a sex club… maybe it would have developed. But she is not who I’m looking for, despite her being hot. I also didn’t feel any connection and think she was the same, so why bother? She will drift off one way or another.
The other one wasn’t hot enough and also I should have just quit beforehand.
What “hot enough” means is going to depend on the guy in question. For me… usually she’s a high 6 at a minimum, more likely a 7. Honestly… 6s… some are “okay.” I can work the right one, it depends on the girl, though… if she is a high 6, on the low 7 border… she might “count.” On Tinder I couldn’t even hit that standard, and most of the chicks liking me were 5s or below, way off my own internal standards.
Like, if I were having intercourse with 5s… I could do it all day… it’s not really game… it’s just SMV mis-match. It wouldn’t be that much different from Keanu Reeves with 8s… he is a rich famous actor, so there is little “game” needed for him. He can just be. I could f**k a different fat chick every night, and, aside from wanting to kill myself before, during, and after, I could brag about all the chicks I’m getting because I’M SUCH AN ALPHA MALE HEAR ME ROAR.
“Who counts” also depends on where the guy is coming from… if you are a fat, video-game-playing f**kin idiot, and you manage to get a 4 or 5… that might “count” for you (even as you are working to improve yourself, right? right?). Depends on where you are… you want to be seeking chicks who are at the edge of your skills and abilities. If a low SMV guy is chasing 7+ chicks, he is probably signing up for loads of unpleasant rejection that may have psychological ramifications. This is also why I think you can safely ignore guys online writing about how all chicks are evil and bitches and on and on… chances are the guy is experiencing SMV mismatch. Same with chicks saying all guys are evil and assholes… chances are she’s fat and experiencing SMV mismatch.
For me… 8+ chicks will NEVER be easy, not consistently… there aren’t many, and I’m now outside of their most typical age ranges, in most cases. Sometimes I will be an 8’s natural type and it will be easy, but that is uncommon. I doubt 8 are easy for most guys talking online, consciously thinking about the game, like deadlifting twice your weight is not easy for almost any guy. Guys who are naturally gettin 8+ chicks… they’re probably not online.
Most guys online appear to exaggerate their achievements, god knows why as who really gives a f**k? It’s also not a totally objective process… some of the best sexual chemistry I’ve had has not been with the objectively hottest chicks, though the correlation is strong.
I also think a lot of the guys who get their game together, drop out of the online conversation, because they have nothing to add… and the vast majority of the online conversation is newbies talking to each other. Nothing wrong with being a newbie, but you can only answer basic questions so many times before you’re like, “dude, go read the background on this topic.”
Boredom = death, when it comes to chicks that is. This chick is f**king some guy who is nice but boring, “We had sex. He’s always very tender. It’s always slow and nice. I can come easily, so I always orgasm, but I can’t say it’s from his moves, which are pretty green.” Plus, he’s weak, if you translate from chick-speak, “He’s just so kind and thoughtful. Which brings me to my one hesitation about Ben … Sometimes I worry I’m not excited enough by him.”
This guy needs to both up his game and find a chick with slightly lower SMV. The woman just broke up with a doctor she names Drew, “When Drew and I were together, we would go away most weekends. I was always dying to be with him. Like, panting for him. With Ben, it couldn’t be more opposite. I feel Zen. I wouldn’t call it ‘blah’; it’s more like calm.” She knows her SMV is at risk from aging, “He was a resident, and she was one of the nurses. This happened a year ago, when I turned 30. It killed me. It still kills me. Sometimes at work I look at his Instagram page and try to analyze it. Is he with the nurse?”, but she doesn’t act that way. Probably his nurse is a little younger and also more economically functional.
The chick in the story is probably not a good earner, “Work was tedious. I had to present a bunch of new products to the owner of the shop, who is nice but intense. She had a lot of questions. I was not my best self. Get me home to bed!”, and “Drew” knows it. I have said this in various places, but when it comes to long-term relationships, the chick’s qualities aside from “hot” and “willing” become important. Seduction advice focuses on the short term, but for longer term relationships a woman’s qualities outside her rack, her backside, and her oral skills gain in importance. The chick in the story doesn’t seem like she has much of anything that contributes to the household apart from her p***y. That’s fine for short-term, but for a lot of guys p***y is, if not a commodity, then available, and character, earning, cooking, etc. are not. Guys look for “full package,” and “Drew” was either bored of her, or looking at a more functional woman, or could be both.
It’s strange to me that more women are not working to move themselves out of the “commodity p***y” and into the “special girl” category. This woman is not doing that, and she’s suffering because of it. Feminism has set up a highly competitive sexual marketplace, and many women have not properly internalized this fact either.
Lesson for guys is simple, don’t be f**king boring, and if you are, a lot of chicks who are on the younger and hotter side of things will next you.
Humans are almost unique in having menopause; most animals keep reproducing until they die in late middle-age. Why does evolution want humans to stick around without reproducing?
Because old people have already learned the local culture and can teach it to others. Henrich asks us to throw out any personal experience we have of elders; we live in a rapidly-changing world where an old person is probably “behind the times”. But for most of history, change happened glacially slowly, and old people would have spent their entire lives accumulating relevant knowledge. Imagine a Silicon Valley programmer stumped by a particularly tough bug in his code calling up his grandfather, who has seventy years’ experience in the relevant programming language.
On average, it seems like the people I know who have kids are more satisfied and content. Often they are not happier, if you think of happiness as a giddy joy, but they seem to have more purpose, and purpose can satisfy us.
What we find most satisfying when we’re younger, like status among our peers and f**king younger-hotter-tighter, we might find less satisfying when we’re older. Those thoughts are underlying Kids, the player, and the Red Pill: Comprehensive statement. We focus on the game because, although it may be sad, it’s also true that we need game and to understand women in order to form satisfying relationships, particularly in an age of legal theft via marriage and paternity fraud. It’s necessary both to guard your interests and for most guys to have a family. Many guys don’t do either one effectively. Your stage of life is relevant and I see too few guys discussing stage-of-life points, so I want to change that here.
Postwar baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1964, were Generation Zero for the Second Demographic Transition in the United States. Now shuffling their way into their sixties and seventies, older boomers give a glimpse of the long-term downside of the post-SDT culture. If we had to pick just one word to describe it, “lonely” would do. In widely quoted research published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Ashton M. Verdery and Rachel Margolis uncovered a recent surge in the number of “kinless” older adults. Lower fertility translates into fewer siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins, whether for hospital visits or emergency contacts.
That article is amazing and please read all of it. I will emphasize that living without kids for your entire life is probably contrary to our psychology and leads many people to bad second halves of their lives. It must be especially hard for guys who fail to be players and learn about chicks in the first half of their lives, then spend the second halves of their lives with no or estranged families. Suicide rates for middle-aged and older guys have been going up for a long time and I bet that’s part of the reason. Younger guys can learn game and get laid (the way is hard but it can be done), while older guys without families don’t have that source of meaning.
I’m still anti-marriage (it’s a bad contract) but I also see the sadness in many of the older people around me, and I see a lot of younger people (mostly chicks but some guys too) who seem to be heading towards that path. Game is important because it can reduce loneliness in some ways. It can also be supremely lonely in other ways, I want to add, as game and Red Pill in general can estrange you from a lot of society when you begin to learn how the real world works. Aging is more painful for women and low-status guys than for top guys, as top guys can keep nailing younger-hotter-tighter for a pretty long time. Not forever and that is where the family aspect becomes more important.
If you are a 31-one-year-old guy do not despair and think you are over the hill. You’re not and still need to learn game and do all the Red Pill things.
Many people seem to spend their lives trying to keep their options open. But let’s say you keep your options open into the indefinite future, as you age out of your fertility window and into the injuries and sicknesses and infirmity of time: so what? What are you keeping your options open, to do?
By the end of ten minutes, every sergeant is either dead or wounded. To the eyes of such men as Private Howard I. Grosser and Private First Class Gilbert G. Murdock, this clean sweep suggests that the Germans on the high ground have spotted all leaders and concentrated fire their way. Among the men who are still moving in with the tide, rifles, packs, and helmets have already been cast away in the interests of survival.
Compared to hitting the French beaches on June 6 1944, having a chick be mean to you is pretty minor.
I was wrong, and you all (as well as my younger friend) were right. Some context: a younger guy I know through work recently got what he perceives to be a nuclear breakup, in which his girlfriend of four years’ standing just dumped him… without any warnings that he picked up. More likely, he is an oblivious younger guy who thinks he is the man and had started taking the chick for granted and/or ignoring her subtler signs. Or who knows, maybe she did just wake up and drop him one day.
He was devastated for a month then signed up for online dating, like everyone else, notably on Tinder, and… it was not good for him. I’ve met his ex and she’s quite attractive, although I suspect she’s going to run to fat due to low discipline… probably a low 8 today and might have been higher when they met. My friend got on Tinder and a few weeks ago started telling me how bad it has been for him. I said that it can’t be that bad, relying on my four, five year old memories of it… I bragged to him, “I will make a Tinder account, lie about my age, and I’ll show you how to do it.” Mentally, I thought, “It can’t be that hard, especially with good pictures.” I also told him to Google “daygame” and read the Neil Strauss book, but I don’t think he’s done either.
I did make the Tinder account and it has changed. The number of matches I got, even with very similar profiles, dropped majorly. I paid for the version that shows me who likes my profile, and my Tinder reaction is, “Where are all these fat chicks coming from?” While I too have read about how half of Americans are fat and another quarter “overweight” (polite term for fat)… I have never seen so many fat chicks in one place. I guess they are invisible to me in everyday life, unless they are blocking the sidewalk or I have to sit next to a sugar addict on a plane.
I ought to apologize to my colleague/friend and to the guys online who I privately doubted… RP Murphy / Red Pill Dad has been writing about the misery of swipe-on-demand online dating, and I’m glad I didn’t say anything publicly to chastise him, because he is correct and I was not.
(Added subsequently: If you want a shot at making Tinder work, see Andy’s guide, “Get Laid a Tonne on Tinder [Part 1] – Improving Your Looks & Taking Photos.” I have not personally attempted Andy’s strategies, but they seem plausible, and his guides are comprehensive. By the time you are a high-value-enough guy for Tinder to work I think offline, real-world will work too.)
Tinder is owned by a company called Match.com, and the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is suing Match.com and Tinder for fraudulent business practices, including fake profiles and fake expressions of interest. Match.com is almost certainly doing the same thing on Tinder, possibly by leaving old and out-of-date profiles up. Back when I used to do online dating before the swipe app revolution, it was easy to run out of attractive, active matches, even in a city. Tinder never seems to run out, which means that there are either thousands more attractive women online at a given time (unlikely), or Match.com is lying, fudging profiles, and holding some attractive profiles in “reserve” for subscribers. The level of backend manipulation is outrageous.
I was on Tinder for like 10 – 12 days and two girls of note came out on dates. One of them had a Snapchat listed, so I messaged her on there… she replied (surprising, as she was hot) and quickly told me that she is “sort of” a “model and escort girl.” I told her that’s fine and then told her that I’ve dated girls who are sex workers before (this is true, albeit non-monogamously). Sent the Tinder girl some pics of me + one of the sex-worker girls together. Tinder girl asked me how much they charged an hour!… and how much she should charge. I laughed and told her that she was thinking about it all wrong and we should talk about it over drinks. She said okay.
Over drinks we talked about why she wants to do it, what she’s doing with her life (kind of in school, but her answers are flakey enough to make me think not in school), and I am studiously watching her eyes and not her prominently displayed tits. After a while, at the second bar, I tell her a little bit about what I understand about the sex work business.
Being an escort who makes good money and (ideally) avoids bad situations is only partly about having an available pussy and a good body. The rest of it is a mix of psychologist, customer service, and understanding the male mind. Most guys are not looking *just* for sex… Nash has been talking on Twitter lately about how guys are emotional about chicks, just not in the way that many chicks expect. Most guys, even guys who don’t want to commit are not seeking totally mechanical casual sex where they nut, roll over, and leave… they are seeking to connect with the chick. But many chicks are too f**ked up to let the proper connection happen. There is some more to this argument… I hope we get a Nash post on it soon.
Back to the story, two bars, some kissing between bars, some making out in bar #2, and she comes back but is a little skittish. She is also young and maybe not used to hooking up with adult guys in adult guy spaces, so I pour the wine and after some wine do the kissing again. I can tell that she’s nervous and I call it out. She admits she’s nervous and I tell her not to be, but I’m getting kind of weird energy so I pull back and do a “back to college” move and suggest we watch something on Netflix… I have an account for a reason… so I pick Sense8… seems to be my go-to for some reason, and we start watching on a computer. It seems to work because she relaxes. The escort talk is mostly gone and after ten or 15 minutes we’re f**king and it’s actually quite nice.
After she re-opens the escort talk… and I’m thinking, “Has she just ‘paid’ me for more advice about sex work?” To be honest I think the answer is yes. I go on with the spiel, guys are there for sex but also for validation, for a pretty girl to tell him he’s handsome, he’s good in bed, his wife doesn’t appreciate him properly, his boss should give him a promotion, etc. etc. Not as crudely as I’ve put it here, but good sex workers do all those things… and are usually seeking more like a monthly allowance situation, which means less sex (mileage on her pussy) and more money. All things that guys who have been consultants of any kind understand… you want to get out of the “commodity service provider” category and into the “essential business practice and improvement category.” Like the consulting things discussed here.
She seems impressed, although she won’t let me shoot nude pics (how is she going to escort??), and she stays over. We have another two sex-dates together. I learn her parents are divorced… not good… she admits she is between schools right now… she reminds me a little bit of Low-cut top girl, although hotter and less combative, but a little bit lost and with f**ked up intersex dynamics. Despite her physical attractiveness I could not get into her and during the third date suggested that we go to a sex club together. I’d seeded the idea a little bit with the concept that monogamy is strange if you think about it… but she was not receptive and then ghosted me. That is fine. I was using sex clubs as a filter.
The other chick was a high 6 or so, not as attractive as her pics, but had a decently bright and bubbly personality. We told a lot of dating stories, then moved into more life trajectory and emotional ideas… she seemed to vibe with it… two venues, back to my place, we start kissing again and she stops me to say that we can’t do this if I’m just going to ghost her. I tell her my views on ghosting, articulated at the link, but then I also turn into a girl and say, “You’re right, we shouldn’t do this tonight.” That’s often a line from game, but I mean it… at that moment I don’t want to bang a girl who’s going to get hurt by it after… I can tell she is wrong for me (not hot enough, smart enough, personality not good enough), and then the script reverses and she says she really wants to and that she wasn’t trying to stop me. I tell her honestly that I don’t think we’re right for each other… she then gets on her knees and starts blowing me, to recapture momentum… I’m saying that I don’t think we should do this and I don’t want to set bad expectations that I am not going to live up to… she has stopped talking and keeps performing… it does feel like a performance, which is not my favorite feeling, but in the end I am still a guy and go with it.
We do date two… it’s also okay… before we have sex I just break out the idea of going to a sex club (also prematurely, as with the wannabe escort)… she is not into it either and looks like she’s going to cry as well… and she talks bitterly about how guys just want to f**k and no one wants a relationship. Two chicks off Tinder, two sessions in tears or near tears. I’m kind of depressed, but I ask her about what the guys on Tinder have in common… she doesn’t know… I give her a version of “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures,” and I tell her that she’s probably like most people doing online dating and trying to get guys who are at least 20% more attractive than her, and that’s almost always going to lead her to disappointment.
Like most people, she is dumb and wants to know if I’m saying she’s ugly. She’s not ugly, not at all, but attractiveness is a spectrum… if she is trying to date guys higher than her… guys who look good online… she is going to have problems. I don’t think she is receptive to this and it probably just makes her angry. I tell her she should just stop doing monogamy… this doesn’t seem to make her happy either. We have sex anyway, about an hour later, and the next day I tell her that I like her but that I think she is looking for someone who is not me. She doesn’t reply. Ghosted again.
Tinder gives paying customers boosts up and beyond whatever they say they do, so I bought the premium features. One of them lets me see who has liked me. Almost everyone who did, was fat. Literally, where are all these fat girls? They must be all around me, and I just don’t notice them at all, unless they’re in my way (to be fair, they often are). I’d guess that you need to buy the better versions of Tinder to make a go at all.
What happened to Tinder? Some possibilities include…
1. I’m doing it wrong somehow. Maybe I need longer conversations. I’m not and never have been a fan of long online conversations, because ten minutes in person will reveal compatibility far better than ten hours of online conversation, but the market may have shifted in that direction.
2. My profile is/was too tuned to jackass party boy. I changed it halfway through.
3. Lack of Instagram presence is holding me back.
4. I didn’t put enough time in: in my defense, this was a low time commitment… previous forays in this world have shown that 90% of the output emerges from like 10% of the time, and that if it doesn’t happen fast, it’s time to move on and try another strategy. It took the belligerents in WWI way too many years to learn that horses are worthless and charging into entrenched machine gun positions is stupid. Humans are resistant to reality and I am not an exception, however much I want to fancy myself one.
5. Something else I’m not aware of.
Out of the ten or so acceptably attractive and seemingly normal chicks I matched with, two wanted to go on dates apart from the 6, both were bad (see below). Generally, I unmatched if the date wasn’t going to happen, or removed them from Instagram if that was the contact point. My sense from talking to people in real life is that many people let matches sit there and linger for weeks and months… this seems to provide chicks with a sense of unlimited possibility, which is bad (for guys as well as the chicks themselves, I think). Guys should un-match or block the chicks if it’s not moving forward.
Also, I hadn’t 100% appreciated the extent to which some chicks are into Instagram. A large percentage of chicks appear to be chasing Instagram attention; how many deeply understand that online attention is garbage? I don’t recall this from long-ago forays into Tinder. To do online seriously, I think need an Instagram thing as an extension of online dating. Fortunately, I don’t want that.
One entertaining girl I messaged on Snapchat, a standard opener. Opened, no reply from her. Then I did a Torero-like recovery text, figuring that I’d see what happened, and she replied, “You have to understand I get a million messages a day, I only reply to the pictures.” Incredibly bitchy, but also maybe good advice. I replied the same is true of me (it isn’t, thank God) and wished her luck. And then removed her.
My impression from interacting with people in their 20s is that a lot of guys retain random chicks on social media accounts when they shouldn’t… this is bad for the guy (his brain incorrectly thinks he’s got a shot) and addictive to the chick (cause chicks love attention). I did message some chicks (on Instagram, it appears you can message chicks without following them), and then removed them when they didn’t reply or didn’t want to go on a date. Perhaps this is the “wrong” thing and chicks watch guys’s feeds, then message the ones they find interesting. If so, that seems like a terrible way to be in the game, but, again, I could be wrong on this.
If this online thing is really how 20-somethings are trying to pair off, I understand why they are all miserable… I don’t mean to be an old codger, but something has gone seriously wrong. The number of articles about social and emotional problems in Gen Z is enormous. If they are on Tinder, I see why… it is so damn depressing, far more depressing than I could have imagined, far more depressing than daygame (or maybe I have enough practice to not to be too hurt by blowouts?). And the number of fat chicks… it’s like a zombie army of them. Chicks must also be unhappy because so many of them are too fat to attract a man’s attention and lack the fortitude to implement the simple systems needed to be height-weight appropriate. I have long disliked the arguments about modern life being fundamentally f**ked up, but using Tinder makes me think they have some validity.
I can see why some non-elite guys get radicalized by attempting Tinder, since it’s a depressing and yet awesome display of female privilege… female privilege has always existed, of course, but it’s not been so in your face… a huge parade of attractive chicks, all implicitly saying “no.” Worse than them is the even larger parade of not-so-attractive chicks, all also saying no.
Apart from the two chicks I told stories about, I did go out with two other random chicks who turned out to be fatter than I thought. Did chit-chat for an hour… I will say that fatter chicks are way more engaged and work harder to impress me, but it just… doesn’t work. I can’t be bothered. I feel bad for fat chicks. Just not bad enough to try and bang ’em.
How many guys stay with a woman not because they’re excited about her, but because they don’t think they can do any better? Bet a lot of guys do.
Among the two non-fatties I met, the would-be prostitute is the more interesting one. Has the figure for it. But she is just not that smart, which I could tell by talking to her and trying to explain some about what successful prostitutes do (it isn’t just the sex).
She also wouldn’t let me shoot nude photos of her at all, even though shooting a chick nude is somewhat normal today, especially at the beginning of an affair, but refusing is strange for someone who is going to let strangers shoot loads into her for money.
With both chicks, I told them a lot about what I actually think, and that was probably “bad game.” I was having a Twitter conversation about “honesty” versus “social skills” or “palatability” recently, where one guy said you should be scrupulously honest with everything you say to chicks. It’s an opinion and I understand why he has it. But I think it’s also a good idea to have the social skills to know what you should say and when you should say it… to take a non-game example, if you have a junior colleague who wants to take an assignment he’s not ready for, you could say, “No. You suck.” In some circumstances that could be appropriate, but in many cases it will sting him and make him hate you.
You could instead say to him, “What skills do you think the assignment needs?” Lead him down that path. Ask him what he thinks he’ll be doing in that assignment. Ask him how he thinks he’ll handle some of the challenges that arise. If he can’t answer some of those questions… he’s likely to see the problems for himself. And then you can say, “Work on those skills, show me work product [x], and then we’ll talk again.”
Same effect, different outcome, right?
Sometimes being super blunt is the right thing to do. More often, it will alienate people, especially early on. With the 8… she lacks the internal ability to realize she’s not that smart and as a result has not thought through the various things that her job entails. Maybe she will learn them over time, but I’m not sure she has the intelligence to do that. Her emotional intelligence doesn’t seem to be particularly high either. I warned her that there’s a good solid chance she’s going to have some really negative experiences if she’s meeting totally unknown guys for paid sex off Tinder.
She almost started crying (second date). Didn’t quite cry, but almost. I tried to comfort her some… and told her to get a job as a hostess at a restaurant or something like that. She has had jobs like that, but the pay is not high and at the last one some guy working there was apparently chasing her around, thinking she’s a free bread basket and he wants to dive in for the goodies. Although her story was somewhat garbled. She seemed to be looking at me for moral support and I kind of shrugged and was like, “That’s guys.” Put your foot down. I don’t know, call the police if he’s touching her without her consent. She strikes me as the sort of girl who can’t say no properly, who will do so in a flirty way that says to men, “Come hither.”
Or… who knows… maybe she was f**king the guy, and some other guy was jealous and made things uncomfortable for her. This is another “narrative” thing. Most chicks complaining of “sexual harassment…” it’s bullshit. It’s abetted partially by the chick, like most guys who get conned are getting conned because they’re trying to get something for nothing.
Both these chicks are examples of how NOT to seed non-monogamy. To do it properly, a chick has to be invested in you and has to be largely in your frame. It should be done like 6 – 12 weeks after the initial sex. I used it here (and have used it in similar circumstances) as a filter for chicks I’m not 100% into… they can get introduced to the world, I can get credit for bringing new chicks in, etc. It’s a low probability play that I use in situations when I’m going to let the girl go anyway… so I might as well test to see if she has deep non-monogamous fantasies that I can engage. In both their cases, the answer is no, or I just couldn’t be bothered to do it right.
What a depressing experience… there seems to have been a “golden age” of online dating from like 2006 – 2014 or 2015… when being online got old enough to make online dating not be too weird, but before smartphones and the masses destroyed it.
I think I also haven’t properly appreciated an ecosystem advantage I have (or had, as I am pretty much letting it go, I think). The power of real-world meeting has always been large, but it seems to have actually grown as more people have heaved themselves online.
I feel like kind of an idiot for mentally scoffing at the guys who denigrate online dating apps… I dunno, maybe Bumble works better, because it forces chicks to make a decision. Overall, though, some of the anger among the Red Pill communities makes a little more sense… if my primary experience of dating were of online dating, I’d think women are idiots too… although I’d be wrong, I’d be basing that view off a limited number of women and a circumstance not favorable to guys. The anger of women towards men also makes a little more sense… women don’t actually like having to choose between 30 different, very similar appearing guys, I think. At the same time, they go out with the hottest-seeming guys… get f**ked… then the guy moves on… then the woman posts something online about how ALL MEN ARE DOGS… because she is chasing the OMG hottest guy, who has lots of other options. Truly a situation to breed discord. In real life, people who behave as dysfunctionally as they do online will fail.
I also don’t believe women who can’t find dates online. They are being unreasonable and not dating effectively.
A lot of younger chicks also seem to be social idiots, spending too much time online and not enough time in the real world, and their social idiocy becomes self-reinforcing. This applies to guys too and explains why so much of the Red Pill discourse is what it is… it’s being driven by guys who are spending 4+ hours a day online, instead of going out into the real world and meeting chicks. Or even other guys. A lot of younger chicks seem more socially idiotic than they did when I was like 20… Japan shows us where we’re going.
So many people are living contrary to human nature. Too much time online, too much sugar and simple carbs, not enough time exercising, no time creating. Too much consuming, too little creating. Half of teenagers have social/emotional problems like anxiety and depression… because of how we live now… and we are too addled to learn how to live properly. We are meant to interact with other humans in real life… not an infinite sprawl of their shitty pics online, working for social media companies without being paid for it.
There is a meta lesson here, too, which is that real experience beats theorizing. I didn’t appreciate how f**king bad it is. In a few relatively short years, the whole thing changed around. I also didn’t appreciate how mal-adaptive a lot of the female behavior seems to be online. Or is it that the adaptive chicks just get snapped up faster? Whatever the source is, I was just f**king wrong. It’s humbling to be so wrong.
I would guess that it can be useful to use online dating once every 2 – 3 months to pick up any easy pickings who are new to online… otherwise, not at all… and like I said, it’s just f**king depressing.
If I am a high-quality guy (I let others make that determination), I made the Tinder market a little bit worse when I deleted my account. Who is left when the high-quality people with good social skills and lives leave?
I will say that I feel validated in pursuing the non-monogamy dating patterns I’ve followed, as dating couples and some single chicks WITH a chick is way more fun than pursuing it alone. Doing so has also helped me develop pretty large social networks through friends and friends-of-friends. When a woman breaks up with her boyfriend, her first source of new dick is often guys she already knows… and ideally guys she’s already f**ked… meaning, me.
I knew that non-monogamous dating is a kind of force-multiplier effect: more sex with less work. Until this experiment I didn’t appreciate how much the force-multiplier works. I had thought it was like a multiplier of 1.5 or 1.75 or something like that. Now I think it’s like a 3 – 5x multiplier, at least if you’re a guy who just wants more sex with hot chicks… Nash seems to like relatively inexperienced chicks, with particular life histories… the kinds of chicks who are not going to end up at sex clubs, for the most part… so for someone like that, what I’ve done is the wrong route. For someone like me, this seems like it’s been an incredible deal, which I didn’t understand until recently. Seeing the conventional-dating online wasteland has changed my view. Now I think I am more of an advocate for this than I was, for a guy who wants sex with a lot of different women.
Maybe all the supposed Tinder hookup stories are about fat chicks.
Maybe I’m doing it wrong and need to tone down the fuckboy profile.
Maybe I should actually amp up the profile and make it all about bondage, paddles, and discreetly anonymized chicks who are tied up (that’s one way to filter). I speculate on this because Feeld has been okay for me, as I wrote above, though it does depend on starting w/ a hot chick.
It’s been a while since I’ve been this provably wrong.
This tweet is interesting… I find it almost unbelievable and wonder if this pattern is common. We may also be in a cycle where on Tinder chicks are shit to guys, so the better guys leave it… as the better guys leave, the better chicks do as well… and then the chicks are bitchy to the guys, and the guys are trying a mass-contact strategy, leaving everyone poorly off.
Despite a low or moderate amount of effort I technically slept with two chicks, but the escort one is too weird to “count” as a proper lay and the other one is not really hot enough IMO. While I’ve done worse I don’t see any reason to count her. It sapped my spirit… I don’t think f**king an 8 has ever sapped my spirit before… this is a new feeling.
Overall, this experiment points to the need for in-person approach over online. I see why people who do online become rigid, jaded, and unhappy. Something has gone terribly wrong w/ the online world in the last 4 – 5 years. I hadn’t appreciated how badly that’s happened.