We haven’t had a Nash bomb lately, so “Types, truth, bad vibes, and the red pill attachment style” is very welcome, though it will disappoint guys hungry for field reports.
i like how you call most ‘red pill’ assertions as essentially either defensive or reactive to the woman’s imperative….this is absolutely correct in my opinion, and a huge drag on guys’ progress in learning to get better with women…..
I think the situation is a little different, and the quality of much “Red Pill” advice and discourse depends where the guy starts from. For a lot of guys who have been completely unsuccessful their whole lives, it is necessary to protect and enhance what little value they have. They need to learn to build value because, without some underlying value, they’ll see the “bad” side of women. Kind of like how fat chicks are much more likely to see the “bad” side of men… because the fat chick is sexually invisible, or visible only to the lowest guys, she finds the “men bad” argument very palatable. Attractive women are almost never hardcore feminists. It also seems pretty rare to see attractive men who are hardcore Red Pill “harsh truthers,” to speak Nash’s language.
A place that is good to start may not be a good place to ultimately end up.
I never, ever try to create Anxiety in women. In no way does Anxiety turn women on.
Mr Anxiety is not only a Type, but he is also very confused on this topic. So much so, I am certain that Desire is not his specialty.
Even if Nash doesn’t try to create anxiety, I can almost guarantee he sometimes does. Maybe often does. When you withdraw attention. When she realizes she’s losing you. When she realizes that you’re higher value than she thought and she’s been a bit of a bitch. When she’s debating whether to see you that night or see someone else (not necessarily male) that night. Etc. At some point… she’s got to be a bit anxious about whether she’s hooked you, as much as you’re worried about whether you’ve hooked her. Typically the guy is worried at first, but the chick worries later on… if she’s never got some anxiety, that’s not great. Chicks are very attracted to ambiguous relationships, and ambiguity implies some anxiety about what the relationship is.
There is such a thing as too much anxiety and such a thing as too much security. Most guys generate too much security and are boring: boring = death. Guys who are boring, or who women find boring, are the source of much of the “anxiety” advice.
Within the context of a longer-term relationship, security is good… and there are different types of security and anxiety, and Nash talks of some of those types. Many surface-level arguments are resolved by looking more deeply into the terms and concepts being used, and where they emerge from.
Notice how the hardcore Redpill guys are constantly yammering about bipolar girls (BPD). I’m a Secure type, I don’t aim for “broken” girls, so I really know almost nothing about BPD girls. My “vibe” doesn’t attract them. They are never in life.
I have pretty limited experience with really badly behaved chicks… I think most badly behaved chicks show themselves pretty early, in smaller ways, before they get to the really terrible behaviors, and I think that I notice, sometimes subconsciously, the bad behavior… and don’t reward it. So I don’t think I get far with the really f**ked up chicks. Or I don’t go deep with them. So I don’t have the experiential background with horrible chicks that some guys seem to have. When I read their stories about horrible chicks, I often find myself thinking, “Bro, you should’ve cut her out of your life long, LONG before you hit that point.”
A girl who is too fucked up… I don’t want her around. This includes chicks who want to extract money from me (for example demanding dinners out), chicks who are excessively negative, chicks who are too into drugs… there are probably some other types I am missing too. Oh I know, chicks who have a history of violence or violent exes.
The last one is important… contrary to the blue pill media narrative some chicks like violent guys and cultivate those guys in their lives. Like I said previously, most female bad behavior doesn’t spring from nowhere… for chicks, the same is true of men. Smart chicks see precursor signs of bad male behavior and cut those guys from their lives, fast. Dumb chicks, fucked up chicks… they see the signs and ignore them or worse like them.
All of our lives are patterned (a topic for another upcoming post)… if a chick has a pattern of past “abuse” or what have you… she is part of that pattern and you as a guy need to rid yourself of her. You will be the “next abuser” in her narrative of injustice.
The same thing is true at work. If you have a worker, colleague, whoever, who has a long history of supposedly being exploited by bosses, companies, etc…. you know the problem is probably with him. Anyone can get in a bad job situation once or twice… three or more times and it’s the worker’s fault.
There are more commonalities between job patterns and dating patterns than most red pill guys realize. Something to think about in that.
Most people will show/tell you who they are… usually not directly, but you can get the point. Believe them and react accordingly. Protect yourself to the extent you can.
Has Nash, or you, read KING WARRIOR MAGICIAN LOVER: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine yet? I don’t see it in Nash’s blog search. It is a book about understanding the self, and a book about types.
One more point, not very connected to the above… I heard from a guy who asked about Nash and I disagreeing with each other in comments. It was a bit of a strange message because it seemed to assume that two people must agree about everything, or be enemies? Whatever it is, I think we are more aligned than not, and I find his thinking very interesting. But it’s also fine and normal for people to have some differences of view and talk them out… like normal people… unlike followers seeking gurus online. Or gurus seeking followers. I am not a guru. I have done some things right… some things wrong… most things in the middle… ideally I am trying to help other guys accelerate their own learning.
For an example of some disagreement, Nash uses way too many capital letters in his post… we don’t need so many proper nouns. But that is a deliberate decision on his part, I’m sure.
I’m also a little bit more sympathetic to mainstream “Red Pill” than he is, in his post… for the basic guy, getting off video games, improving his diet, hitting the gym, socializing more, developing new skills and hobbies… just not handicapping himself… is likely going to do a lot for his practice with chicks. Just not doing the bad things is “enough” for a lot of guys to see significant improvement. Maybe not enough for a guy to become a true player, but enough that he’s no longer stepping on his own dick. If a guy can implement some basics… that is a big jump over his starting space.
Oh yes, and most guys are not reading at all… so they do not have the tools to understand human relations… some guys are naturals and don’t need that, some guys are too dumb to comprehend what they read, but a lot of guys aren’t living up to what they should because they have not discovered the many guys who have ALREADY asked the questions we all are asking, and answered some of the questions. The tools are available… many guys aren’t using them.
So there is my Friday afternoon rambling, before the Internet-free weekend. Go outside, talk to people, read a book.
The Red Quest 
> “You almost never see attractive women who are hardcore feminists. It also seems pretty rare to see attractive men who are hardcore Red Pill “harsh truthers” to speak Nash’s language.”
You are very near the point I am trying to make.
[And First: “Not all redpillers are like that.” That is real. I am trying to make a distinction for Harsh Truthers.]
It’s not so much that “Harsh Truthers” aren’t attractive. I think they clearly are NOT. But I’m not overly worried about them.
In terms of BRINGING WOMEN INTO THEIR LIVES, I think they are mostly a lost cause. I don’t want to see other men join them in the Fraternity of Misery, further lowering their sexual market value with hostility and too much emphasis on “the battle of the sexes” (h/t to Rakish). The battle isn’t sexy at all.
To build on your analogy, those guys are “fat chicks” that think they can’t win, and they will play each hand like that, and they scare away opportunities, deny any possibilities of charm, each day creating the world anew in their harsh image. Self perpetuating harshness. No thanks. We can do better.
I know I could score a lot of points by being pro TRP. I know I lose points because I push back. Other than the fact that I love to argue… Why do I bother?
I do this to “wake up” a lot of guys that will blindly follow Harsh Truthers into that mostly repugnant territory. If they do that, they will find it harder to find “good experiences” with women. The harshness itself will push women away. Harsh is not attractive for the great majority of women.
The Red Quest’s comment that “it depends on where they start” is exactly right. Thus my emphasis on Types.
And I pause here, to acknowledge the wisdom in that comment. I get it. Naively enthusiast guys WILL get crushed in the sexual marketplace. And I can see that TRP IS useful if what you need is Defense. If you ONLY think “dogs” are cuddly and fun, maybe you do need to hear “dogs bite, man!” a couple times… but hopefully you learn that lesson fast and can get back to a healthy balance. It’s not only “they bite, man, they bite!!!” “Dogs” are great.
And I DO want to drive a wedge between Game (bringing women into your life) and TRP (which is a kind of reaction to Feminism – as RedQuest said elsewhere). Be hardcore TRP if you want… but don’t confuse that with Game. Certainly don’t confuse that with Seduction.
Unattractive guys will see women through “Redpill Glasses.” And naive men will get beat up. Some basic lessons (and they are truly basic) are important.
But if a man is serious about bringing women into his life… Game will clean you up. If you actually want women in your life… who are the real experts on that topic? Who is good with bringing women into their lives?
EX: Compare the stories about women you hear from Players vs the Harsh Truthers? Players tell a lot of great stories. There are a lot of happy guys in Game. It’s not easy. We tell war stories too. We can see bullshit from girls – and we often move right past it, into positive territory. Guys in Game have some real wins to share. You can hear it in their stories. They like women. And it shows.
Even if we’re only talking about modern “Game” (2004-present), so many men have cleaned themselves up via Game, through trial/error, through actual face-to-face time with women, through exposure to other men that are further along. They beat back their naivete, they learned to “wrangle girls,” and they led themselves and those girls to joy and orgasms. If you want women in your life, look there.
————-
This has been a Public Service Announcement from DaysofGame… in association with, The Red Quest. And Players and Seducers on the internet and beyond.
May we have good experiences. May we give the girls good experiences. May we all be entertained.
Viva Daygame.
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Disagreement is healthy between commentators … but I think it has more persuasive effect than the oblique way Nash has done it. Each to his own – yet the dismissive, arrogant tone is too off-putting and preachy for me (although I don’t mind the CAPS).
I sense that Nash has not needed Harsh Truths in his life and so has no need for that kind of commentary. TRP has its place in the Seduction/Game lexicon. Its usefulness fades over time. Yeah – I groan at the tone of the regular Rollo emails I receive … but I also meet men who would find that perspective refreshing and enlightening.
I am actually tempted to write some Harsh Truth Vignettes about Blue Pill men who describe their situations to me and are subsequently Red Pilled. It would be like a reality TV show format where I write a One Year After and see how their transformation has been.
I think Players can also have TRP credentials – it is not an either/or scenario. I love women, engage well with them and have been quite “busy” during this transformation. And at the same time I still engage with TRP. It doesn’t corrupt me or affect my vibe. If anything, TRP needs more nuance, particularly around single mothers and older women. I don’t really understand why we are challenging each other’s desires if they don’t fit the Younger Hotter Tighter script. Why the shame? The Twitter crowd can STFU.
RQ: the work you do on Reddit sounds useless sometimes (at least from the way you describe it – I could be wrong) … but I sense you do it to help that one guy out there who wants to change.
A friend of mine, a bass player, told me recently that I had “changed his life” – primarily because I gave him access to my Kindle account and he read everything I had there – Deida, Rollo, Krauser, Torero, Buss, etc. That’s the kind of charity work seduction guys can gift to each other.
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People have vastly different senses of humor, strangely enough. It was impossible for me to imagine at age 12 why my Mom was irritated by Monty Python and found them less than funny.
It’s similar for polemic. Some of us are impressed by and moved by and interested in that discussion style. I’m a big fan of Christopher Hitchens, for instance. Hard core polemicist. It’s his best attribute.
It’s ironic when people complain about the polemic style. It’s anti-fascist to the point of being fascist; it’s antifa. Why don’t YOU change your writing style! It’s telling other people what to do, because you don’t like being told what to do, in a way.
Conflict bothers some people more than others. The “why can’t we all just get along” instinct is part of the human condition. As is tribe building and diplomacy. If anything I’ve been continually impressed to the point of awe at Nash’s diplomacy skills. He’s more “let’s build a tribe and get along” than most any other writer I know of.
As we know with having relationships with women, and children, it’s impossible to just be friends and just get along without strong boundaries and expectations.
I find Nash’s impetus to be very healthy, and I think he explained it well.
I have also heard from many people that they find little to no issue with Rollo.
Different people, different senses of humor, different insights, different abilities and desires. I think it’s perfectly appropriate to be stridently aggressive and abrasive, at times. Just as people can take what they will from Rollo, they can take what they will from any polemicist.
Explaining to a polemicist that he is doing it wrong is like explaining to the guy handing out free candy that you don’t like lemon and he should hand out chocolate instead.
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> I’ve been continually impressed to the point of awe at Nash’s diplomacy skills
I think you might be the only person in history to feel this way about me, but I appreciate it all the same. When I am certain, I’m can be more gentle. When I’m thrashing after the truth, I’m less smooth about it – more about throwing elbows.
> Conflict bothers some people more than others
I walk right into conflict, every time. It’s a sign I am some kind of “Type.” I took Jordan Peterson’s “BIG FIVE” Personality Test and I scored in the bottom 1% for “politeness” – which really means “confrontational” in his scale. That is true.
> He’s more “let’s build a tribe and get along”
I am interested in networking together a certain flavor of guys in Game. While simultaneously picking fight with others. Both are a way to stake out an intellectual position.
I think you have a lot to say, a lot of depth, a lot of experience to offer… so you can dance and counter-punch in a debate without getting overly hot. I think TheRedQuest is definitely like that (very rich range of experiences to draw from an an especially cool head). All of us have disagreed with each other, and also pushed each other’s arguments along.
I actually don’t spend that much time trying to get along. I want to work out my thoughts. Sometimes I walk head-on into an idea. Other times, I get behind and help it along. Occasionally that is about loyalty… but mostly it is about me trying to fund my own truth.
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I’m fine with conflict but so much of it on the Internet is so stupid that I can’t be bothered. I would rather read a book or experience the real world. Maybe one of those sources will teach me something about the conflict, usually much more than what Internet conflicts teach.
Also, a lot of the time, if the macro foundations are there, the micro fights about some fine point or other… don’t really matter. They’re interesting to talk out, but online I think of it in two ways… there is a group of people who are too dumb or uninteresting to bother with (not into those conflicts) and a group of people who have interesting things to say (most conflicts are micro).
On a basic level, is money or sex or something really important on the line? If not, it’s small potatoes.
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