Asking a girl too many questions, date structure

I’m (charitably) ambivalent about Blackdragon’s work… some things he seems to get right by accident, and one real player I talk to has learned a lot from him, and BD was talking about being a player and consciously using non-monogamy before anyone else I am aware of. But, to counteract the good, BD was pimping some kind of absurd, expensive “alpha male” conference: the sort of thing I address in Location-independent businesses are rarer than online seminar hucksters would have you believe. No real-life alpha male calls himself an “alpha male…” it’s a pretender title. This week BD’s post is “First Dates – Let HER Do the Talking.” Find it yourself if you like… it’s wildly incomplete, because, if you get the right chick, then yes, letting her talk is fine. But some chicks… they don’t talk. Most chicks talk less than me, at first.

Reasons why are endless. They might not have any personality. Some chicks will also be intimidated by you (a thing newbie guys forget easily). If you approached her, learned about her, asked her on a date, have a real life, etc., she may be more scared/nervous of you than you are of her. I have been on dates with chicks who barely talked… I did most of the chatter… I touched their hands… then their arms/shoulders/hair whatever… then we kissed… they came back… and we f**ked. I didn’t do much but talk and then escalate. She appeared ambivalent, but she was compliant right into bed. If you have a girl like that, who gives one-word answers but is also DTF, then the “ask her questions” advice is borderline r^tarded because she can’t or won’t speak. You are the man, your job is to make things happen (another thing no one teaches men in school, except for some of the cooler coaches and PE teachers).

There is more calibration needed than the “Blackdragon” advice gives,

2. Don’t talk unless you’re asking a question.

The person asking the questions is the one controlling the conversation. Therefore, you need to be the one asking the questions. Most of your statements on a first date should end with some kind of question. This will keep her talking and you quiet (hopefully). This applies to online dating as well.

Not necessarily, and not even usually. Sometimes the one asking the questions is just passive. Have you been interviewed by a journalist or by a kid looking for a mentor, people like that? The person asking the questions in those situations is  controlling the conversation… he’s giving up value by being interested and showing status to the other person. The person with the status is controlling the power and the conversation. When I see mistakes like this I begin to wonder, “Has the person giving advice been the person with the power? At all? Or is he a bottom guy?” “Bottom guy” is the Yohami/Nash term. Still no Yohami blog from what I can see, which is a damn shame because that guy’s got great shit to say.

Back to talking on dates, let’s go back in time to the early blog posts I wrote… I was looking through them this week… found this one, about how the need for basic game skills is still high. “Like 97% of the date was her talking about super non-sexual stuff, like she would to a girl friend, and the guy listening like he was getting paid to hear this girl’s blather. When a girl talks and it’s a sign of investment, that’s great. If she’s leading because there’s a leadership vacuum that guy isn’t filling, that’s terrible.”

The guy in that story was not talking… and also not leading. The girl was having herself a friendly chat, like she would with a eunuch or a girlfriend. Too many questions, or a girl who is happy to have bad chat with zero heat and zero sexual energy, means the guy must redirect the conversation in the sexualized direction he wants it to go. He is better off forcing some heat into the conversation and having the girl say no, than letting her make him her latest girlfriend. If she can’t accept any heat, then she’s not going to f**k you.

It’s also often better to prefer statements over questions, another point missing. The more I think about that post, the worse it gets.

On some of the best dates, the girl gets excited and talkative, and it’s the player’s job to just not f**k it up. Keep her talking all the way back to your place, where you undress her and f**k her, riding good vibes the whole way. I think that’s what BD is envisioning and it’s a good vision, but it’s likely to be fewer than half of your dates… fewer than 20%, really. Those are great dates… when and if you get them. A lot of chicks are boring, nervous, have nothing to say, want to be led, etc. Try to engineer the great dates but don’t expect them.

I guess I’m building to the idea that there are low-status-guy assumptions built into the post, and guys who aren’t pretty game savvy, who haven’t dated a lot (I have) won’t spot them. When I see that kind of thing I worry, cause what else am I missing? There’s a difference between differences of opinion (lots of opinions around, lots of guys I like and respect while disagreeing with this point or that idea) and then there are things that are just plain wrong or missing vital elements, as I am discussing here. Some bits of that BD post are true, especially for newbies, “Often, men talk a lot because they’re nervous. The less nervous you are, the less likely you’ll talk too much.” He’s right on about that. Particularly for newbies. I have been that nervous guy, though not recently. Today I have too many life experiences to be that guy.

On Twitter, Nash brought up an interesting point: “Passive guys (who don’t initiate) may end up w/ more aggressive/extroverted girls/chatty girls.” The quieter girls, passive guys give up on, because the quieter girls don’t give feedback. I’ve been with chicks who told me after we’d f**ked that they were glad I understood them, pursued them, calmed their anxieties, &tc. &tc. I think they mean that their lack of reactivity, conversation, and flirting skills, mean most guys don’t pursue them into bed, so they don’t get enough male attention, don’t get laid enough, &tc. Girls can have bad game too. I’ve told some quieter girls that they should flirt more cause most guys aren’t like me.

When I see “just wrong” things… it elicits doubt, even in the face of a lot of correct things. I want to keep up the demystification process.

A guy privately asked me if I think BD’s results are real. Who knows? I think he did okay with online dating before the advent of swipe dating (online dating worked until about 2015). If I were willing to consistently sleep with 5s, chicks age 33+, chicks carrying 15+ extra pounds… I could use online dating and write about an insane cornucopia of f**king. There is an endless stream of such chicks out there and available, because most guys don’t want them. I’m interested in attractive girls who are of normal weight for healthy humans. The contemporary western world does not produce so many of these as I would like and it shows in my results. I would prefer more 8+ chicks but they are usually a stretch for me and that shows in my results too.

As you can see in the post linked at the top of this one, “Krauser on BlackDragon,” the woman BlackDragon characterizes as a “9” is at best a 5, I’d judge her a 4. So who knows what of his other “results” might be “real?” The most likely answer is often correct.

On choosing life

On choosing life.

Profound.

You’re probably not going to read it.

 

“Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills

I’ve said this in some different places but not headlined with it: “Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills overlap, but there’s a lot of non-overlap too. For picking up chicks, approach anxiety, initial comments, flirting skills, sheer physicality, fashion sense, logistics, dealing with shit tests, etc. are paramount. Guys should practice and build up those skills. For long-term relationships, emotional compatibility, lifestyle, money/money philosophy, ability to maintain sexual heat, long-term life goals, etc. are much more important. Guys can be good at both but there’s a lot of distinction between the two and if you specialize in being a player you will likely hone the early skills and forget the later ones even exist.

If you are a young guy without a lot of experience with women you should concentrate pretty much entirely on short and medium term relationship skills. If you are an older guy you will have to evaluate your life course for yourself and think about what you seek over time.

Guys who are truly specialized in short term relationships may lose the idea that in the medium or long term, some of the “game” aspects go away… or change. Yes, women will still shit test over the long term, but sometimes the issues are real issues and not shit tests. Real issues that need to be addressed. Sometimes they are comfort tests, a topic that doesn’t come up much because I think most guys don’t get to that stage. Emotionally healthy and secure chicks will have needs that they will bring up, and consistently not meeting those needs will cause the woman to look elsewhere… if she is damaged she may become more attracted to adrenaline, drama, and not having those needs met.

I have made this mistake before.

“The mom having an affair because her husband did first”

The Brooklyn Mom Having an Affair Because Her Husband Had One First. This piece illustrates the dangers of affairs and non-monogamy. I see guys online suggesting that it’s okay for a guy to have a quiet side piece while his main woman cares for the kids and runs the house.

That is of course possible. For a few guys, feasible. For most guys, not much…. requires too much money, time, dedication, etc. Too easy to get caught today.

If you do it, she will likely want to do it too. And when she does it, this can lead to alienation of affection as well as paternity uncertainty. If the guy in this story thinks the next kid in his, well, he might be wrong.

Tough conversations. Downside of being known as a player

Tough conversations this weekend. I’m having some challenges making some of the changes I want to make, and I am suffering some right now because I have been a player for a long time and have a player reputation and a lot of player instincts. The player instincts don’t serve me well in trying to develop a longer-term relationship with a woman who has a more secure attachment style and who knows what she wants.

A word on reputation and what chicks are looking for. Players tend to filter out family-oriented chicks. A few guys have been talking about this on Twitter, although none blog, so I can’t link a canonical post on the subject. But chicks who want monogamy and families exist: they’re the ones who are not interested in guys who give off player vibes. Some are very pretty. They usually have a small number of lifetime sex partners, don’t have sex immediately, and find guys who are attractive, have their shit together, and are career-oriented. Priorities and what you bring to life (Katie’s story) is about this type of chick. Sexually adventurous chicks make for interesting and fun stories… extremely family-oriented chicks don’t, usually. I am thinking of two chicks I know who were (and are) very pretty and followed the family-life pattern. Often these chicks will compromise somewhat on “looks and extroversion” to get “family-oriented and monogamous.” They often find long-term guys in their 20s and often work jobs that give them access to guys with good earnings and family orientation.

Many family-oriented, mostly monogamous chicks who will have one or two flings in their lives… if you catch them at the right time with the right game you may get with one… but these chicks keep their wilder impulses under control and filter guys for being better dads and providers. This is the kind of woman who, if you cold approach her, will say “no” and move on. She’s probably never been on Tinder or, if she has, she quit it in disgust. She’s not doing the things Red Pill guys complain about, but she’s also looking for a guy commensurate to her in value, so low value guys are going to be just about sexually invisible to her. Many online Red Pill guys are low value and thrashing about women because it’s almost impossible to overcome being low value, kind of like fat chicks complaining about men. For fat chicks, their number one problem in accessing higher-value men is being fat, and pretty much nothing they do without changing their diets and movement habits will improve their situation.

Reputation matters and chicks are going to judge you on, like you judge them on it (if you know them).

Sex skills for guys: psychology, preparation, and practice

Why’s there not more talk about the specifics of sex? I have some ideas… RedCoco says,

Pickup seems pretty quiet on the topic of sex skills.

I sense that as men we set our sexual baseline energy way too low when women are craving animalistic, dominant, rough sex from us.

We as men choose vanilla.

Women want the whole gelato bar!

I have a theory that most guys aren’t much getting laid and the ones who are, are not great in bed (then there are guys like Red Pill Dad (RPD), who take my advice and use a butt plug to great effect in their girls). I’ve been thinking about writing a “psychology of sex” essay to complement the sex-toy one (RPD also wrote me, “Dude, thank you for the vibrator tip—chicks love that and it’s so easy”) … and now you have it. RPD has been doing the stuff I now think of as basic and obvious and it’s worked great for him.

There are many good resources for sex skills, She Comes First being good. There is another one called The Sex God Method which is also fine. There is another one, Slow Sex, that is good for chicks who have trouble coming. Just F*ck Me! – What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom. So there are lots of resources for guys who want to get better at f**king, but not so many for guys who want to get better at seduction and pickup, so that is where the community hammers.

There is probably one thing that I think is useful above all others… take your time. Demonstrate to her that you are not in a rush… I made this mistake many times when I was younger. Most guys are so thrilled that a decent chick is getting naked that they want to rush through foreplay and to the stage when their dick is inside her. This is very rarely the best way to be… sometimes it’s necessary if you’re for example in a public bathroom or a car, but if you’re able, take your time. Guys warm up close to instantly, chicks warm up like an iron… slowly, but with great heat at the end. You never hear a girl say, “Oh God, it was so nice when he got inside me so fast! Wow! Next time I hope he is inside me even faster.” Chicks don’t say, “He came in two minutes flat, that was great.” But she will often complain that he skimps foreplay, she wasn’t fully aroused, she needed more kissing, she was still in her head, etc.

Three chicks on the state of big-city dating

I stop by for takeout (no bread, some risk of seed oils) after an event and eat about half the meal there. The only space available is at a larger table. While I’m waiting for the food, there are three chicks, one of them in the middle of the other two, and she is orating like Abraham f**king Lincoln. Girl will not shut up and I can hear her from pretty much anywhere in the joint… put her in a reality TV confessional and you’d have a show. She’s a very low 7 or high 6… I’ve done worse… I’ve done a lot better, a lot better… from her foghorn, I learn she’d been f**king some guy, Orlando, at her work, and had discovered thanks to social media that he says “I love you” etc. to another woman. Mistake #1 from Orlando: don’t let your side piece into your social media.

This chick asks Orlando who the other woman is, and Orlando won’t give her a straight answer. The chick contacts the other woman and they talk. The other woman asks “Condoms?” The chick says no condoms were used (no surprise there, chicks don’t believe in condoms any more). The other woman asks, “Birth control?” The chick says yes, she is on birth control and doesn’t want to bear some random’s child, which is a high level of intelligence and self-respect in a modern woman. Orlandos’ two women met up, had a drink, the other woman got too drunk and the chick I was listening to had to bring the other woman back to Orlando. This Orlando fellow is apparently an immigrant, too. Can’t tell if the speaker was white or Latina. He’s not paying for the apartment, the other woman is! What a player! No threesome, from what I can tell, but I bet Orlando could teach a lot of you fellas about game.

Ghetto-world girls #1, Shannon

In honor of me discussing ghetto dysfunction, the story of Shannon… she was from online, many years ago, right before I met Libido Girl, if I am remembering right, but after I had discovered that online dating worked (back then). The world has changed and now conventional online dating seems to fail, meaning that daygame is essential. I was also meeting some chicks at business/networking conferences, and it looks like those could still work decently well today. When everyone else is online, just learning to be socially deft and not hiding your dick can set a guy apart.

This girl Shannon came out on a date quickly, after some chat on instant messenger (IM… a long time ago, like I said). It was a pretty late night date, which made me optimistic. We drank a bottle of wine outside… I thought she’d be an easy lay. She had to pick up a phone call… again, that long ago… and I remember telling her to leave the guy in voicemail and make out with me instead. While she talked I kissed her neck and when she finished we kissed for real. Most first kisses are not memorable… for some reason this one was. Despite her being a smoker I really liked kissing her. With some chicks a bit of kissing really gets me going, while with others it can take me a long time to get into the moment. In the teens and 20s I could get into almost any chick if she’s hot and willing enough… now I am a bit more particular… with chicks, with friends, etc. For younger guys I’m an advocate of gaining experience with chicks who are okay but might not be ideal, because that experience can be leveraged with the girls you really want later on. Just like how almost no one starts in their dream job, but experience gained in the early jobs are necessary to make the later, good jobs happen. Every so often someone manages to start their own company or otherwise get into the ideal situation fast, but that’s super rare, like a guy who just stumbles right into banging the hottest chicks with minimal effort. Plan for the normal route while being able to adapt to the fast route, if the fast route is available.

Shannon liked guys with my body type (said as much), so I think that’s where her attraction came from. The first night I thought she was going home with me but she didn’t, and I took her home. We made plans to see each other the next night. Same thing, same place, same wine, took me a long time to get her naked once we were home (later I realized she was playing for time). I very stupidly got drunk and raw dogged her right off. A stupid thing to do, and I have managed to wander through a bunch of land-mine fields without getting my leg blown off, miraculously. In the moment I have a bad “think with my dick” problem that I do not recommend to other guys… but here I am.

Christ… she was hot… but also liked to stay up to 3 a.m. every night, because of whatever reason. She was white, but totally ghetto trash, with the past to prove it. She was 20, I believe, but had lived a lot. Too much. I kept seeing her a lot more than I should have… we had good f**king, but also a lot of scheduling conflicts. She was not as dumb as I would have expected but lacked education or desire to educate herself. She is the kind of girl who today would be lost in her phone 6+ hours a day, and then when I wanted to read after sex or when we were just hanging out, she would noodle around in a book and then get bored.

She liked me… I liked her in some ways… but she was too f**ked up for me. And her life story made no sense. She lived with an aunt and uncle pretty far outside town. I think she could have been a nice girl if she’d had a better home life, but she didn’t, and she wasn’t. She was good at being submissive in bed and doing what I told her to do. She is another one who got more into me than I was into her… she could sense the coolness and distance in me… and in her case in made her chase too much (a little sign of dysfunction there: functional chicks want to keep themselves within one level of the guy’s investment).

Shannon’s friends were also nightmares… she only had a few because of moving around, and I believe that her moving history, plus her being bored working at the hotel, drove her to date online. If she’d been just a little less dysfunctional, I might have tried more seriously to catapult her into middle-class values. But she was too far gone, despite her young age. I don’t like being captain-save-a-ho… that’s a stupid thing to attempt and almost never works… but I do like trying to encourage people to become the best person they can become, if they are open to that… most people are not open to improvement, despite what they say. Same reason trying to help most hapless guys online is useless… most of them don’t have the preconditions necessary to make real improvements. The preconditions are often psychological in nature.

Despite all of this, Shannon had a nice p***y and I could do just about whatever I wanted to her in bed. I also f**ked her quite a few times in hotel rooms at the hotel she worked at.

A hot girl she worked with flirted with me quite a bit, and when Shannon and I broke up I tried to f**k her, failed. There was a girl just on the wrong side of too heavy who sent me dirty messages (non-Facebook instant message systems were prevalent) and wanted to f**k me, but she was too fat. There was also a beta-type dude who wanted to f**k Shannon but wasn’t and HATED me. Also a little chubby and pathetic. He needed the game… I should have given him a copy… and I should have showed him a pic of me f**king Shannon. Kind of a b***h move, and probably pointless.

Shannon was pretty f**ked up, which I usually don’t go for, but she was also hot. I wonder if she was selling her cooze at the hotel to guests. With a girl like her… you never know… she would talk about her desire for romance sometimes, but her behavior and attitudes said otherwise.

With most ghetto white chicks, I don’t have sufficient edge or psychological degeneracy for them. And most ghetto chicks are NOT hot, because they have terrible nutrition and life habits, along with IQs too low to fix their problems. There is the very rare chick who has a decent IQ and is genuinely in awful circumstances, but they are definitely the exception. Shannon didn’t have good habits… but she was young enough and had lucky enough genetics to get past that. Like with most ghetto chicks, or just ghetto people in general, I would get exasperated with her dysfunctional thought processes and behaviors, and she like the results of my world-builder impulses, but not the process of my world-builder impulses. Many people want the rewards without having to put in the work, and she was like that.

I dated some other pretty ghetto white chicks here and there, but they pretty much all came from online, many years ago, when online worked, and a few have come from miscellaneous chats here and there, rather than bulk daygame. There was also a woman, less overtly ghetto, who’d had a kid with some black guy, who not surprisingly took off. She had an amazing body for having had a kid. She was the one who, when I said something about her life showing that she’s made extremely bad life decisions, accused me of being a racist… whatever… that shit might fly in social media, but it doesn’t make a guy commit to you. I’m sure she found some guy to subsidize her. Life is hard enough, then you add in really bad decision-making like her, and it gets unbelievably harder. You should have read radicalizing the romanceless (red pill while denouncing red pill) and its link to the rush from judgment, about how being kumayah and non-judgmental is f**king stupid. You can be excessively judgmental or excessively non-judgmental.

When it comes to short-term and just-for-fun liaisons with chicks, I am extremely non-judgmental and encourage them to share their fantasies, histories, etc. This is how players get chicks to open up. But when it comes to function/dysfunction in every day life… I am super judgmental… and very attuned to what it takes to thrive. I feel bad for people with ghetto world values, but I also can’t fix them, usually. And we are too disparate to be attracted to one another properly, usually.