“Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills

I’ve said this in some different places but not headlined with it: “Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills overlap, but there’s a lot of non-overlap too. For picking up chicks, approach anxiety, initial comments, flirting skills, sheer physicality, fashion sense, logistics, dealing with shit tests, etc. are paramount. Guys should practice and build up those skills. For long-term relationships, emotional compatibility, lifestyle, money/money philosophy, ability to maintain sexual heat, long-term life goals, etc. are much more important. Guys can be good at both but there’s a lot of distinction between the two and if you specialize in being a player you will likely hone the early skills and forget the later ones even exist.

If you are a young guy without a lot of experience with women you should concentrate pretty much entirely on short and medium term relationship skills. If you are an older guy you will have to evaluate your life course for yourself and think about what you seek over time.

Guys who are truly specialized in short term relationships may lose the idea that in the medium or long term, some of the “game” aspects go away… or change. Yes, women will still shit test over the long term, but sometimes the issues are real issues and not shit tests. Real issues that need to be addressed. Sometimes they are comfort tests, a topic that doesn’t come up much because I think most guys don’t get to that stage. Emotionally healthy and secure chicks will have needs that they will bring up, and consistently not meeting those needs will cause the woman to look elsewhere… if she is damaged she may become more attracted to adrenaline, drama, and not having those needs met.

I have made this mistake before.

A lot of the “Red Pill” stories you read from guys online leave out the part where the guy isn’t providing the emotional or other things the chick needs. Not all of the stories. A lot of them are about guys marrying stupid/damaged/f**ked up chicks and then suffering for their stupid decisions and suffering by marrying a damaged woman. But there are too many stories about evil women taking advantage of good and innocent men for all of them to be true. Guys get in long-term relationships with broken chicks then post about how all chicks are evil crazy predators…. those chicks exist, no doubt…. but they are not all chicks.

Not all the skills are distinct… women in long-term relationships still like flirtatious energy from their partners, for example. They don’t want low-energy guys who take them for granted (just like men don’t like that from women).

Online there is a strong emphasis on game and the initial stages of relationships between opening and sex. There’s very little about the later stages of relationships (among men). Among women, getting to sex is the easiest thing in the world and retaining attractive top men is hard, so the conversation’s tenor differs. If you’re a guy and you haven’t been able to get the women you want then you should work on the opening stages. Don’t worry about the middle and end if you can’t do the beginning decently.

Rivelino just tweeted,

“I’ve seen many players sabotage their relationships with great girls who captured their hearts because they feared losing control under the chaos of being in love. A man can be alpha but if he doesn’t cash it in for the ultimate prize he’s revealed the beta at his core.” -Roissy

I’ve been guilty of this. I might be guilty of it right now.

For most people small children are not compatible with being a player. Yes, you can make the two work with enough financial resources / family help, but that will be true for a small number of guys. It’s also possible to make this work by abandoning kid/mom and f**king up the kid’s life. I understand the temptations and I also understand, yes, how awful the family court system is in my western countries. I understand that the entire legal system and culture is set up to alienate fathers and use men for money/earning power, then deny men rights. That is all true but most normal and healthy women also want fathers for their children and want the relationship to work, especially when the child/children is/are young.

I don’t want to dictate what men do. I do want men to have the skills and experiences that will allow them to exit a relationship gracefully and then find new partners. Maybe the biggest gap among guys is between guys who know they can find acceptable new partners… not necessarily instantly, but guys who are confident they can get laid live in a different world. Then there are guys who can’t. If she leaves and you think you will never do better than her in your entire life, you are f**ked before you start. You depend too much on her. In any business negotiation, the ability to walk away from the table is the most important feature. If you can’t leave the table you are probably f**ked before you start too.

That’s why I’m a proponent for learning game and achieving high value even for guys who think they want to have kids or (very weird to me) be monogamous with a woman long term w/o having kids. If you have enough of it… you will always have an exit without the excruciating pain of thinking that you are blocked out of the sexual marketplace.

My default has also been to bail whenever things get hard. Always another fish in the sea, so I might as well keep fishing. This is probably not a good default for longer-term engagements, where disagreements are going to happen and sometimes there are going to be hard patches.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

12 thoughts on ““Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills”

  1. > “Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills

    I am noticing more and more of my brain starting to “squirril away” notes about bring a father. Maybe 5 years from now…

    But this is how I am. I start to “take notes” and when I have enough, I make something of those notes.

    The challenge, as I see it is…

    Short terms goals for players (men with a lot of exp w/ women) include constant turnover. That is where the muscle memory is: dealing with the whims of girls, being used to rejection, constantly meeting girls, bring them in closer, flexing on your boundaries, and being more attached to the lifestyle than any particular girl.

    To switch to “make it work” mode in an LTR is none of the above.

    I am working on getting a new business online. I bet I’ll learn more about LTRs from that, than I will from my “short term” activity with girls.

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    1. My default has also been to bail whenever things get hard. Always another fish in the sea, so I might as well keep fishing. This is probably not a good default for longer-term engagements, where disagreements are going to happen and sometimes there are going to be hard patches.

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  2. All girls need emotional validation, which really amounts to letting them vent and not being judge mental when they say dumb shit. Most guys take these outburst seriously and try to logic with the girl to make her feel better. Wrong. Better to listen without saying anything and then if it drags on too long grab her ass or pinch her titty. I’ll do this with a serious expression and feign ignorance when she asks me to stop and say something like, ‘keep going, I’m listening’ 99% of the shit girls get stressed about is meaningless. I actually think girls enjoy being stressed out. Anything as long as they’re not bored. Unless its something legitimate like a death in the family your job is to change her mood not her mind.

    Where I personally draw the line is all the typical boyfriend behaviors girls try to suck you into. Go to any mall or high street on a weekend, what do you see? Legions of men with ‘kill me now’ expressions following their wives and girlfriends around while they shop. There is a lot of comedy mined from the things chicks nag their men into participating in. Bill Burr has one about ‘brunch.’ Chris Rock used to have one about all the men getting put into a room together like children at house parties talking about the best commuting routes.

    The common theme is very few heterosexual men do these things by choice. A couple of years married in my early 30’s confirmed this for me personally and since then I’ve purposefully designed my life to spend it doing things I enjoy and / or give me personal fulfillment.. My perfect weekend consists of seeing my son, going to the gym, bjj, a yoga/pilates session, a trip to the ocean and time spent creating something. The chance of me getting all that done within a long term relationship involving cohabitation or marriage is zero. So I date 20-25 year old girls who don’t expect or even want that type of thing. Yes they eventually age out and want more, typically right around the time they start putting on weight anyway, most American girls bodies deteriorate pretty rapidly after 25 for all the reasons you talk about.

    There is no perfect solution and yes loneliness is an issue for the aging player. At 48 I accept that there will be a time when under 25 year old girls will have no sexual interest in me. But go to any place with high foot traffic and observe older couples as they walk past. Almost always you will see the woman endlessly whittering away while the man walks mute, with a pained expression on his face. Girls talk more than guys anyway but as they age it only becomes more pronounced. I’ve had countless phone conversations with my 70 year old mom where I said maybe 30 words in an hour.

    In the modern day west there is no such thing as a red pilled marriage. It’s a source of skepticism about Rollo Tommasi. As useful as his writing is, I do not believe he practices what he preaches. I’m glad I discovered the red pill in my mid 30’s after I’d had my son and gotten divorced. If I’d found it in my 20’s I’d be facing the dilemma almost all men in the pua community have when they age out of pick up. How do you settle down and have a family once you’ve seen the matrix. That’s where the whole Hunter Drew/Ivan Throne – family alpha/trad con shtick comes from. Men kidding themselves they’re patriarchs to make themselves feel better about the ridiculous constraints put on them by a modern western marriage.

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  3. This is a poignant quote:

    “I’ve seen many players sabotage their relationships with great girls who captured their hearts because they feared losing control under the chaos of being in love. A man can be alpha but if he doesn’t cash it in for the ultimate prize he’s revealed the beta at his core.” -Roissy

    I’m also remembering a post where you mentioned feeling alone while fucking a girl at a club/party, surrounded by people. Also another where you mentioned that you’re spending time with your feelings about things and that it takes a lot of fucking time.

    Working with feelings, emotions, drives, desires, authentic needs, etc is part of what I do with clients as a counselor, and I have to do that with and for myself or I’ll sound like an empty vessel when I encourage them to the same.

    I have a drive to fuck every hot girl that I see. Underneath that is a drive / need for deep, human, intimate connection. Deeper than that is a need for secure attachment. And there are no easy way to reconcile the disparate drives within the human psyche…not that I’ve found.

    What I’ve been able to do is to indulge myself with non-monogamous dating, and then to sit with and accept the emotions that arise along the way. I used to just talk to the part of me that wanted monogamy and explain to him (inner child, essentially) that other large parts of me would not be happy with that.

    I eventually met a girl who changed everything. 12 years younger, but very mature and wise at 31, she looks like she’s 25, AND she doesn’t ever want to have children. We fell in love and I had to have a serious talk with myself and ask the question, do I *really* want to go mono? (I had already dropped two other girls from my dating rotation, being effectively mono).

    I dove into my feelings and realized that there is more than just my inner child that wants truly deep closeness. But deep relational closeness triggers deeply buried emotional wounds. Flight kicks in and says, “Nuke this relationship and run!”

    To me, part of being truly masculine and grounded means being able to hold all of these emotions and stay grounded. To carry that groundedness into my interactions with my girl. To be able to be tender and loving, while also dominant (a state of being more than a set of actions, IMO) and masculine. And to fuck her so well, and for so long, that it’s impossible to count the number of orgasms we both have.

    The point to all of this is that I hope you find a girl who shatters all of your assumptions and makes you rethink everything and FEEL everything that hasn’t yet come to the surface. It’s not easy, but it’s worth the effort.

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    1. >>I’m also remembering a post where you mentioned feeling alone while fucking a girl at a club/party, surrounded by people. Also another where you mentioned that you’re spending time with your feelings about things and that it takes a lot of fucking time.

      Yeah man… it’s been weird. For most of my life, fucking more and hotter chicks has been an unalloyed good. Forebrain and hindbrain have been very strongly aligned. Now… they feel less aligned. And I’m trying to decide, or really just deciding, what to do. My SMV is also pretty high right now, if I can speak forthrightly. That’s not going to remain forever. So I am thinking about choices… I have been doing what the things I have been writing about for a decade or so. Is this how I want my life to look ten years from now? Probably not.

      Put a hot chick in front of me and in the moment I’ll enjoy banging her, don’t get me wrong. I’m not turning into some sexless Christian type dude. But I feel more of the emptiness after.

      I’ve been lurking the seduction blogs off and on for a lot of this time… I think me starting to write one is a sign of uncertainty, not certainty (how many guys out there are running their game and never speaking of it online?). I started writing first on Reddit then started here, when I realized that there is no way the low-level guys on Reddit will understand what I’ve been doing or why. The book is my graduating thesis, I believe.

      >>To me, part of being truly masculine and grounded means being able to hold all of these emotions and stay grounded.

      That is challenging to me.

      I find myself fucking a chick and enjoying it, don’t get me wrong, but also thinking…. what’s the point? The thing itself is the point, right? Right?

      So… I will probably wind down this blog if things go well. Won’t have that much to talk about. The field reports are often the most interesting parts of game blogs, and the guys with a lot of experience write the best theory posts (the only ones worth reading, typically). In my view the book is also the most important and comprehensive thing I have to offer… a lot of the rest of it is stuff that other guys could have written, in my view.

      There is also the kid question… if you have been reading for a while you no doubt saw https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/04/15/kids-the-player-and-the-red-pill-comprehensive-statement/ . In my view children really are the future and all that shit.

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  4. Great comments.

    > I have a drive to fuck every hot girl that I see. Underneath that is a drive / need for deep, human, intimate connection. Deeper than that is a need for secure attachment. And there are no easy way to reconcile the disparate drives

    Maybe, in a horny fantasy world… all these drives would be the same thing. Where you fucked every hot girl you saw, and they all loved you, so you had the endless sex, the connection (with anyone you wanted) and the security of constantly being safe no matter where you land. Like a bad Japanese porno… a big incestuous relationship with a “100 horny mothers.”

    : ]

    > being truly masculine and grounded means being able to hold all of these emotions and stay grounded. To carry that groundedness into my interactions with my girl.

    I am preparing myself for another stab at monogamy (not now, but in a few year, perhaps). A “monogamy 2.0” kind of relationship… where I will be a hardass most of the time, and surprise her with intense connection. A “barbell” conceptualization where the “squishy soft” part in the middle basically doesn’t exist… but there is a lot of intensity at both ends.

    I am preparing myself, because I think it’ll be cowardly for me not to try to build something bigger than just me. Than just business. Just game. I know there are some rewards if I take on that risk… I have had a bunch of LTRs.

    For now, I am not even looking for “her.” I am still trying to fortify those parts of myself… I am finding me. More game… which I love. More exploration of female psych. And more growing up (even though I’m on my way to 50).

    > hope you find a girl who shatters all of your assumptions and makes you rethink everything and FEEL everything that hasn’t yet come to the surface.

    One area where I feel certain is that you find this girl best by accident. You don’t seek her out. You do something else, extraordinarily well (could be game) that brings a lot of girls through your life, you date a lot, and one… will “organically” work.

    Men (and women) that try to intentionally “find the one” end up with a collection of parts, a “pretty good package,” and that is not what I want at all.

    No rush… being single feels great right now.

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