Asking a girl too many questions, date structure

I’m (charitably) ambivalent about Blackdragon’s work… some things he seems to get right by accident, and one real player I talk to has learned a lot from him, and BD was talking about being a player and consciously using non-monogamy before anyone else I am aware of. But, to counteract the good, BD was pimping some kind of absurd, expensive “alpha male” conference: the sort of thing I address in Location-independent businesses are rarer than online seminar hucksters would have you believe. No real-life alpha male calls himself an “alpha male…” it’s a pretender title. This week BD’s post is “First Dates – Let HER Do the Talking.” Find it yourself if you like… it’s wildly incomplete, because, if you get the right chick, then yes, letting her talk is fine. But some chicks… they don’t talk. Most chicks talk less than me, at first.

Reasons why are endless. They might not have any personality. Some chicks will also be intimidated by you (a thing newbie guys forget easily). If you approached her, learned about her, asked her on a date, have a real life, etc., she may be more scared/nervous of you than you are of her. I have been on dates with chicks who barely talked… I did most of the chatter… I touched their hands… then their arms/shoulders/hair whatever… then we kissed… they came back… and we f**ked. I didn’t do much but talk and then escalate. She appeared ambivalent, but she was compliant right into bed. If you have a girl like that, who gives one-word answers but is also DTF, then the “ask her questions” advice is borderline r^tarded because she can’t or won’t speak. You are the man, your job is to make things happen (another thing no one teaches men in school, except for some of the cooler coaches and PE teachers).

There is more calibration needed than the “Blackdragon” advice gives,

2. Don’t talk unless you’re asking a question.

The person asking the questions is the one controlling the conversation. Therefore, you need to be the one asking the questions. Most of your statements on a first date should end with some kind of question. This will keep her talking and you quiet (hopefully). This applies to online dating as well.

Not necessarily, and not even usually. Sometimes the one asking the questions is just passive. Have you been interviewed by a journalist or by a kid looking for a mentor, people like that? The person asking the questions in those situations is  controlling the conversation… he’s giving up value by being interested and showing status to the other person. The person with the status is controlling the power and the conversation. When I see mistakes like this I begin to wonder, “Has the person giving advice been the person with the power? At all? Or is he a bottom guy?” “Bottom guy” is the Yohami/Nash term. Still no Yohami blog from what I can see, which is a damn shame because that guy’s got great shit to say.

Back to talking on dates, let’s go back in time to the early blog posts I wrote… I was looking through them this week… found this one, about how the need for basic game skills is still high. “Like 97% of the date was her talking about super non-sexual stuff, like she would to a girl friend, and the guy listening like he was getting paid to hear this girl’s blather. When a girl talks and it’s a sign of investment, that’s great. If she’s leading because there’s a leadership vacuum that guy isn’t filling, that’s terrible.”

The guy in that story was not talking… and also not leading. The girl was having herself a friendly chat, like she would with a eunuch or a girlfriend. Too many questions, or a girl who is happy to have bad chat with zero heat and zero sexual energy, means the guy must redirect the conversation in the sexualized direction he wants it to go. He is better off forcing some heat into the conversation and having the girl say no, than letting her make him her latest girlfriend. If she can’t accept any heat, then she’s not going to f**k you.

It’s also often better to prefer statements over questions, another point missing. The more I think about that post, the worse it gets.

On some of the best dates, the girl gets excited and talkative, and it’s the player’s job to just not f**k it up. Keep her talking all the way back to your place, where you undress her and f**k her, riding good vibes the whole way. I think that’s what BD is envisioning and it’s a good vision, but it’s likely to be fewer than half of your dates… fewer than 20%, really. Those are great dates… when and if you get them. A lot of chicks are boring, nervous, have nothing to say, want to be led, etc. Try to engineer the great dates but don’t expect them.

I guess I’m building to the idea that there are low-status-guy assumptions built into the post, and guys who aren’t pretty game savvy, who haven’t dated a lot (I have) won’t spot them. When I see that kind of thing I worry, cause what else am I missing? There’s a difference between differences of opinion (lots of opinions around, lots of guys I like and respect while disagreeing with this point or that idea) and then there are things that are just plain wrong or missing vital elements, as I am discussing here. Some bits of that BD post are true, especially for newbies, “Often, men talk a lot because they’re nervous. The less nervous you are, the less likely you’ll talk too much.” He’s right on about that. Particularly for newbies. I have been that nervous guy, though not recently. Today I have too many life experiences to be that guy.

On Twitter, Nash brought up an interesting point: “Passive guys (who don’t initiate) may end up w/ more aggressive/extroverted girls/chatty girls.” The quieter girls, passive guys give up on, because the quieter girls don’t give feedback. I’ve been with chicks who told me after we’d f**ked that they were glad I understood them, pursued them, calmed their anxieties, &tc. &tc. I think they mean that their lack of reactivity, conversation, and flirting skills, mean most guys don’t pursue them into bed, so they don’t get enough male attention, don’t get laid enough, &tc. Girls can have bad game too. I’ve told some quieter girls that they should flirt more cause most guys aren’t like me.

When I see “just wrong” things… it elicits doubt, even in the face of a lot of correct things. I want to keep up the demystification process.

A guy privately asked me if I think BD’s results are real. Who knows? I think he did okay with online dating before the advent of swipe dating (online dating worked until about 2015). If I were willing to consistently sleep with 5s, chicks age 33+, chicks carrying 15+ extra pounds… I could use online dating and write about an insane cornucopia of f**king. There is an endless stream of such chicks out there and available, because most guys don’t want them. I’m interested in attractive girls who are of normal weight for healthy humans. The contemporary western world does not produce so many of these as I would like and it shows in my results. I would prefer more 8+ chicks but they are usually a stretch for me and that shows in my results too.

As you can see in the post linked at the top of this one, “Krauser on BlackDragon,” the woman BlackDragon characterizes as a “9” is at best a 5, I’d judge her a 4. So who knows what of his other “results” might be “real?” The most likely answer is often correct.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

9 thoughts on “Asking a girl too many questions, date structure”

  1. I think the key with all these guys is to take what you find useful and discard the rest. I’ve never been to a sex club and at this point I’m unlikely to start going. But there isn’t a day goes by that a girl does something and I shrug and your words go through my head. ‘Chicks are random.’
    There’s a saying you should never meet your heroes and that certainly applies to most in the online pua community. Blackdragon has been much more visible of late (plenty of YouTube clips of him) and only takes a few minutes of watching for me to confidently say thats not a guy who has sex with fuckable younger girls.
    Though he does obfuscate a lot on his blog if you read between the lines he’s actually pretty open. He’s dating women in their mid 30’s and over. Well no player worth his salt needs help doing that. Every city in North America is crawling with them.
    I bought ‘Unchained Man’ a long time ago and stand by it as a useful text. But there is nothing he’s written since then that has added value to my process. His online dating methods are horribly outdated. Unless you wanna bang 38 year olds. I am in absolute agreement with you on his business stuff. Like almost everyone else it’s really selling courses about how to sell courses.
    I’m not sure how monetizable game is any more. You have a legitimate niche in the sex club world. I’ll probably end up buying your book partly out of curiosity, partly to support all the free content you contribute but you’ve said you don’t make much money out of them.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. >>I’ll probably end up buying your book partly out of curiosity

      The book is free.

      I have a real career and don’t think trying to sell books is an effective use of time. I’m also speaking to a niche (non-monogamy) within a niche (game), and I think most guys who buy any books are not getting laid anyway. Some of my more general material applies to lots of guys but the book is my contribution to a space that I’ve not seen addressed by others.


  2. Also completely agree on the calling yourself an alpha male thing. In fact I think the whole term has become so over popularized as to be worthless now. I know guys in bjj who are absolute beasts on the mat, 8% body fat and unquestionably the ‘alpha males’ of the gym, who were dominated/nagged to death by out of shape wives/girlfriends you or I would probably consider to be low 5’s at best. Even worse for guys I’ve known in finance. Dominant and full of confidence on the trading floor, but only access to hot younger girls is through bottle service/getting tables at high end places. Never got them laid though.

    Put me in a bjj gym and I’m a follower, learning from better, more experienced guys. I was middle tier on the trading floor, high enough to get paid well, not so high that I couldn’t have a life outside work. Put me 1 on 1 with a 23 year old girl in a cafe/restaurant/nice lounge and I’m probably top 1% (top 0.1% for my age?) Put me in a Vegas nightclub competing with 25 year old Chads, music full blast and no conversation possible and I’d be bottom 1/3rd. It’s all situational. You just have to know your niche.


  3. Yeah, the past dozen articles of his seem more about promoting himself versus giving out advice. I didn’t read the latest article, since clearly it’s a bad idea to just hog the conversation all along the date. It’s also bad to be quiet during nearly all of the date. Again it’s about balance and if you talk 70% of the time that could be ok depending on the circumstance.

    I think presence of mind and interacting with her is more important:
    – A guy blabbering on is bad because he’s stuck in his head because he likes hearing himself talk, versus an extravert that’s great at telling stories that keep her eagerly engaged.
    – A guy stuck in his head, not knowing what to say to impress her is bad, versus a introverted guy with sprezzatura that’s succinct, yet evocative with his words.


    1. >>since clearly it’s a bad idea to just hog the conversation all along the date.

      It’s mostly good advice…. it’s just incomplete. I know that, but beginner guys might not. I have also bunged very quiet chicks.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Have you read Krauser’s posts about Blackdragon? I don’t want to link to it for specific reasons, but when it comes to evaluating game, I trust his expertise and he basically tears Blackdragon a new one.


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