Social dancing, social skills, and the game

Some guys try partner dancing (salsa, swing, etc.) as a component of their game, and I’m one of them, but I’ve found the results to be mixed… whether you should do dance classes depends a lot on you. If you’ve got lots of tasty chicks queued up and a good pipeline, there’s little reason to start dancing unless you’re a guy who really likes it, or unless you’re in a small town without good day game opportunities. The highest-value guys and chicks rarely or never show up at these venues… which tells you something important.

The reasons for dancing are many and we’re the dancing species, so dancing is in line with our evolved propensities… it’s hard to fight evolved propensities. Guys with good game are almost always aligned with what chicks find attractive, and guys who can’t align themselves with what chicks find attractive will struggle. I didn’t make the rules bro, evolution did. The reverse is also true… just talk to a girl who is fat or old and see how much fun dating is for her… she is not aligned with what guys are primed to desire.

I get the impression a lot of guys starting in pickup, the game, and the Red Pill have bad social skills and are starting from bad places, with no queue of chicks, no pipeline, and a lifetime of videogame, sugar, and porn habits to fight against… guys who don’t have the social skills to apply cold-approach pickup and, even if they try, find the process so daunting as to be almost impossible. For them, social dancing (and improv) are good ways to start making forward progress… every day you can make progress or regress… you only see the tip of the spear. Social dancing and improv are structured ways of meeting new people and building concrete skills without the thumbs-up / thumbs-down aspect of proposing dates and sex to new chicks. When I was younger I was sometimes nervous about sexual rejection, but now I realize that when a girl gives me a firm “no,” or when I take anything apart from “yes” as “no,” that is an advantage to me because I can quit feeding her attention better targeted elsewhere. Guys without a chick pipeline and without masculine identity and presence often find “no” to be devastating, a blow to their whole identity.

After college I lost some of the environmental and ecosystem practices that had led me to good solid lays, and this seems true of a lot of guys. I thought I was a player… turned out I was just in a good environment and a little bit less of a p***y than most guys, and that was sufficient to get a bunch of lays. Oh, if I knew then what I know now……….

So I tried some social dancing. Continue reading “Social dancing, social skills, and the game”

Halloween party and being part of the larger group

Last-minute Halloween party that wasn’t exactly for sex but had many of the characters from the scene/circuit at it. Went at the last minute when some family things fell through, Halloween not being a very family holiday. It was the sort of party that ten years ago would have thrilled me… now I’m fine doing it (this is not a whine), but I feel more take it or leave it.

Took a bit of love substance with some real friends, and the substance kept me awake later than was desirable, but it also had some of its intended effects. I see why these things are being tested in clinical settings, because I think they can have powerful reset properties. But my state was pretty low: lots of sex overall this week, including the day of the party, and whenever that happens… I’m just a lot less social. Less focused on meeting people and seducing women. Like a lot of guys, I have a “hunting” mode that makes me bolder, funnier, deeper, bouncier. More persistent though BS. And that mode was set to “off” from sufficient f**king. Guys in the game know that it all goes better when the mood is right… this isn’t an excuse for failing to do the work when the work needs to be done and the mood isn’t there, but it is a statement about how the game happens, which is another way of saying how people meet and get together from there. The best game doesn’t look like game, etc.

Did meet some chicks and catch up with some old friends, some of them friends of convenience and situation. When younger, I felt a burning desire to f**k pretty much every acceptable girl. Don’t get me wrong, I still wouldn’t mind that… but priorities have shifted, or are shifting. And I understand why guys around my age coming off of years, or worse decades, of unhappy monogamy, sexless “marriages,” etc. would want to f**k pretty much every acceptable girl, to feel fully alive. But… I also understand why years of short-term liaisons can begin to wear on the psyche… it can become a bit monotonous in its own way… the world changes, people are born, people pass, and I’m still asking “Tell me about a fantasy you’ve never shared before” and “I’m not sure you’re the kind of girl who hears the call to adventure. You might be a little boring, right?” I do less cube (have not properly memorized it) and that sort of stuff but have my own common tells/patterns.

There is a gap between “outcome independence” (a concept discussed by many players) and “not giving a shit,” and I feel like I have gone from striving for the first to stumbling into the second… and that shows in my (sporadic, rare) approaches. It’s good to keep up the skills… today, it’s the nature of relationships that a guy never knows when he’ll be on the market again. Women are capricious. The ocean’s tide can be predicted, as can the motion of the planets, but not the mind of a woman. If a guy lets go, he can get dragged into the relationship underclass real fast… just look at your friends with terrible diet and exercise habits… they get what they give. If their primary partner leaves, they’re f**ked, and not in the good way. Being alive today means always being alive to what will happen if she walks tomorrow. It means… it’s not a bad idea to have a couple loose affiliations with women you might text if your main thing goes away.

At the party, I ran into a girl I was f**king for a while a few years ago. She seemed super young then and still seems young, although she’s got to be reaching into the second half of her 20s. Totally empty headed, but in a slightly unusual way. She is too… pliant? Like, she will basically wander into bed with anyone who asks, even when she shouldn’t. I tried to get her to understand value and reciprocity, without her really getting it. She would basically f**k whoever asked… which led to problems at work and among friends… she was the kind of girl who could just be escalated pretty casually into bed (or the bathroom at a bar). A girl who is not good at doing any value protection can be fine in the moment but moving past the most casual of casual f**king often doesn’t work.

She has a pretty face and nice demeanor, but her body is basically skinny fat. She looks like she could be a tight high 8 (though not much in the boob department), then seems more like a low 7 nude. High 6, maybe. For a guy who loves a pretty face over a hot body, she might be a bit higher… I’m the opposite. No interesting story about her, cause I met her at one of the first events she attended, so my job was to look good, chitchat, then escalate, then follow up. Being in this world can blunt a player’s overall game development, because, if the guy can bring in enough new girls, etc., it becomes playing on easy mode. No one gets to the later levels of a thing without trying to reach the edge of his abilities, and if you can get solid 7s on easy mode, how badly do you want to keep chasing? If you become a game obsessive you might still go… to stroke the ego, to reach the highest echelons, etc…. for myself, if I’m sated, my focus tends to move to other things. And at the clubs, a lot of filtering has been done… same with the private events… a girl enters this ecosystem seeking something… something that I have been happy to provide.

This girl was an easy come, easy go girl… we had a thing for a couple months, but she never really “got” me, while I got her quite well. There is no way to put this nicely, but there was a serious IQ and personality mismatch between us. I have dated women smarter than me… which is a fantastic experience, because I can learn a lot from them, and they offer much greater intellectual stimulation and it’s possible to talk to them about work problems, ideas, etc., and get useful feedback, which most girls can’t offer. This one, though… was always more than a couple steps behind me… something I’m okay with, but that kind of mismatch can grate over time… she seemed not to understand that I need to work, to prioritize my job and other issues, and I don’t really know where her income came from. She didn’t seem to be selling sex, and I paid close attention to that, cause pretty girls with no visible means of real support… they have a means of support between their legs… you can usually tell if you’re paying attention. Her family didn’t seem especially wealthy. She did live with too many other people, so maybe her costs were just low, and she lived to party. I haven’t thought about her since I last saw her at a party. Some girls stick in the mind, some slip right out. The circuit can be game on easy mode.

There were fun aspects of the evening, and the love drug has the unfortunate property of making 6s more attractive. If I had been alone… I don’t know… I think it’s good that I wasn’t. So it was fun, but a lot of the things I considered fun now feel kind of melancholy, and the things I’d considered boring, or part of the interstate on the way to fun, I’m more okay with. I’m less interested in bamboozling and more interested in deep talk, often unmediated by altering substances. Unlike some guys, I’ve never had a problem with them. Some people, without intoxicating substances or the intoxicating lure of sex… there is not much else there, when you try to see what their mind is made of. For a lot of women, it’s hard to get to internal substance without the connection of sex first, or without substances to lower inhibition. Then it’s possible to see what’s there, past the layers of social defenses… arguably the game is about strategies to intelligently negate those defenses and allow people to really see what’s inside. I’ve been just fine with bamboozling, with the game, with chasing the f**king, for a long time. Now I am… less fine.

But I am glad that I’m making charts of this world, which has been almost entirely invisible to players, from what I have seen (if I am wrong please point out the predecessors). It seems that I have learned things and realized things that hitherto no one who thinks about the game has realized, or has spoken about. There is a pleasure in making the unknown visible to others. Game is the realization that there is a process and set of practices that can be followed in order to improve success with women. It isn’t completely random; it isn’t a matter of “women are weirdos;” it is a matter of recognizing systematic preferences and then acting on those preferences. Taking what had seemed mysterious and making it a system, like early entrepreneurs realized that a lot of formerly artisanal products could be made cheaply in factories powered by coal. The artisans were angry at seeing their market evaporate but the market spoke. Women hate the idea of the seduction process being illuminated, yet women love hot cool seductive guys and complain about the opposite (fat lame nervous guys). I’m extending another probe down a previously missed, unmapped branch of the game.

None of this is an argument about how other guys should live or game. It’s a description of what’s in my mind lately. When game or sex club experiences are in my mind and life, I report those. Otherwise… more like this. You start with game… you end up with psychology and the entire human world, if you scroll down far enough.

Not much of a field report to report.

“Good Men Aren’t Getting Harder to Find”

Good Men Aren’t Getting Harder to Find.

For most women.

The problem comes from the kinds of 35-year-old women who write those articles about how hard it is to find a “good” man, meaning he is over 6′, makes $100K or more per year, looks good, works out, looks good naked, is great socially, is great in bed, and wants to wife up older women.

These women are disproportionately likely to have attended schools that inculcate their own sense of specialness in the world. They live in big cities that favor players not providers. Maybe they don’t have full-blown narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), but they have narcissistic tendencies and work in narcissistic industries, like media.

They are women who think that men think like women… that men are attracted to money, wealth, and status, rather than things like looks, kindness, caring, and femininity (“femininity is a patriarchy concept”… no, honey, it’s a matter of reproductive fitness, but you never learned that from your women’s studies classes). Today, smart men looking for a long-term partner should look at a woman’s job situation… a woman out of school who has no work or work history whatever is probably showing that there is something wrong with her… but a woman in a corporate job is not that appealing to most similarly situated men. When I am evaluating women for long-term situations, two jobs in particular stand out, teacher and nurse. They are both jobs that are easy to leave at the job (don’t demand 50+ hour weeks) and they are both jobs that make it easy to leave for a year or two to have a family.

There are a lot of women who bring nothing to relationships apart from their p***ies… and then they are surprised… where are the GOOD men?

Her career is not that significant an asset, either.

Top men… are often looking at women in their mid to late 20s for family… not so much women in their mid 30s, who are rapidly approaching infertility.

I think there is a class of delusional women who spent their reproductive time in school and low-level media jobs, who can’t figure out why they’re still on the shelf, who are complaining about the “good men” shortage… I am complaining about the shortage of hot 22 year olds who are height-weight proportionate and want to bend over for me… what a surprise. Women have also not been taught in their bullshit schools that men and women value similar but slightly different things in long-term relationships, so if you don’t bring what men most want… you are going to get what you get.

Delusional women and rejected men also have political ramifications… this is a great work, one that I will say more about later. I think we are really seeing a crisis of delusion, increased by social media, porn, etc. People who raise their value and see past their delusion, they are okay. A lot of women… are not doing this… then they wonder where the “good” men are… the good men are having children with younger women, women who want relationships and families… or the good men are having a wild ride, cause women value sex appeal over stability.

Unfortunately, delusion today is pervasive and society-wide. It’s pushed by the advertising and media environment. Few of us can resist it.

Just listen to the music, “bad boys bring heaven to you”

At the gym I heard an annoying song with lyrics very relevant to the game community, Heaven by Julia Michaels

They say “All good boys go to heaven”
But bad boys bring heaven to you
It’s automatic, it’s just what they do
They say “All good boys go to heaven”
But bad boys bring heaven to you

I don’t think this needs a lot of analysis for players… or for guys in general… the lesson is one players have been repeating for 20 years, maybe longer: don’t be the nice guy. Be the bad boy.

It has 46 million hits on Youtube alone. It’s performed by a decently attractive woman, although she’s overly made up, so it’s hard to say what you’d find beneath the makeup and lighting. Riv‘s been on a Twitter tear lately about makeup being lame.

Remember Rihanna, S &M?

Sticks and stones may break my bones
But whips and chains excite me
‘Cause I may be bad, but I’m perfectly good at it
Sex in the air

125 million hits on Youtube.

So offer her whips and chains (paddles and bondage), not candles and dinners and shit.

I think I first heard this one at the gym too. I’m diligent on the squat rack but a sufficiently provocative song will make me stop and note that I need to open guys’s eyes later, before I open girls’s thighs.

Or Arianna Grande (former Disney princess girl), Side to Side,

I’ve been here all night (Ariana)
I’ve been here all day (Nicki Minaj)
And boy, got me walkin’ side to side…

Keep it down low and it’s all good:

These friends keep talkin’ way too much
Say I should give you up
Can’t hear them, no, cause I-I-I-I-I-I…

I’ve been here all night…
I’ve been here all day…
And boy, got me walkin’ side to side (side to side)

“I know you’ve got a bad reputation, but it doesn’t matter cause it gives me sensation.” So give her the sensation she wants.

The video has 1.6 billion (BILLION) views on YouTube. 1,657,662,858 views.

I am not that old… but the pop songs by woman have gotten appreciably dirtier, and the reaction to them muted… Madonna used to be scandalous… and she is tame relative Rihanna, etc. The songs by guys have always been about f**king the hottest girls… now girls have gotten in to the act.

If you watch what chicks do… listen to what they say, listen to some of the music they like… you’ll get it… the red pill and seduction/game are reactions to the mismatch between what women, particularly young hot women, want and respond to, as opposed to what a lot of our society and culture teach guys women want and respond to.

Boredom = death.

Marriage may be dead, but f**king is alive and well. Go ahead and bring heaven to her. If you don’t… someone else will.

 

What do I mean by “levels” of game/seduction discussion?

Guys have been asking what I mean when I talk about the “level” a given piece of advice operates at. There are at least two ladders of levels, maybe more. There’s the discussion/pattern ladder, and the game level.

There are GAME levels, and we’ll talk about them first… the first bunch of levels are where the man does almost all of the work, typically. Not always, but usually. Almost always if the woman is attractive. Initially, the man takes the brunt of the rejection. Sex is a fulcrum point. After it, more of the power and rejection ability shifts to the man. Men want to know, “Why won’t she put out? When will she put out?” Women want to know, “Why won’t he commit? Why doesn’t he call me after sex? Why doesn’t he acknowledge my love?” The seduction discussion among men is almost always about getting to sex and its immediate aftermath. The seduction discussion among women is almost always about getting a man who is high status and attractive to commit to a woman. Conversations about getting to sex seem weird a woman, because, for her, sex isn’t hard to get. Some man asks her out and tries to f**k her, and if she says yes, it happens. She can ask almost any straight male she knows to come over, and he will, and he’ll f**k her. On the other side, conversations about getting a high-status man to commit seem a little weird to many men, who haven’t been that high-status man and have spent most of their lives struggling with women. Most men struggle to get a single woman in their lives, let alone a high-status woman who wants to commit.

Women are not stupid (a common refrain around here), and they know that they can have sex quickly and easily if they want it. Many guys, however, don’t understand women and don’t understand that the female discussion is almost always past the “good sex” stage. There are articles about how to bait men into making the first move, especially guys who are +2 in SMV, but the bulk of the discussion happens at the later levels… “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures” has greater detail. So much advice, from and to both men and women, is garbage because it doesn’t talk about SMV level. Are you accurately assessing your own SMV? The SMV of the person you’re interested in? What that disparity or lack of disparity implies? So much of the discussion doesn’t address raising SMV, which is one big advantage of the red pill discussion, which begins with lifting, fashion, and diet. It’s about raising SMV.

Too much leadup. Some possible levels in the game:

  • Non-verbal indicator of interest (IOI).
  • Approach.
  • Initial rapport/seduction/whatever.
  • Exchange of numbers and contact information.
  • Date / seduction.
  • Kissing/stroking.
  • Bounceback, logistical challenges.
  • Clothes come off.
  • Sex. This is a fulcrum point, and it’s often where the female discussion starts: women want to know how, once a man has high enough status to lay them, to please the man and keep him interested and around. A lot of the male discussion ENDS here.
  • Comfort/aftercare/bonding, especially if the woman has had deep sexual experiences and she doesn’t want to feel cheap/used/etc. Many men fail here. Once they’ve fucked they feel their “job” is done, which is a good way to needlessly hurt a woman. This is where a lot of women don’t want to go home and a lot of men want women to go home. Not universal, obviously.
  • Repeat sex/dates.
  • Where is this going?” conversation. Defining the relationship. That kind of thing. Red Pill guys often stop here, though many don’t even get here.
  • Committed relationships.
  • Cohabitation.
  • Marriage (I think this is a bad deal for men in most Western societies but it’s here for the sake of completeness).
  • Children/family/family structure.

Later on, there is group consciousness, pattern recognition, etc. There is understanding of a woman’s needs, psychologies, etc. And not all women are the same.

A woman who really wants to be monogamous and have a family (these do exist, contrary to what you may read in some parts of the Internet) will be different from the wanton sex positive sluts I have found myself specializing in. A lot of guys can’t get to this stage with any regularity. High-status, high-value guys are much more likely to get here, and low-status guys should work on fixing and raising their status.

These stages can occur over long periods or short periods of time. It’s possible to have a great sexual experience in a bar bathroom half an hour after meeting a chick. It’s also possible to know a chick for months or years before you plunder her.

Discussion/pattern level.

  • The “bottom level” among guys is things like “happy wife, happy life.” Or, “What do women want?” Or, “I don’t understand why she did this thing.” Or, “She says she wants a nice guy but only dates assholes.” Or, putting women on a pedestal. It’s a foggy mixture of confusion, hostility, admiration, and uncertainty. Game strives to demystify this process.
  • The (better) Reddit red pill discussion is a step above that, thankfully. It’s about the need for men to improve: diet, lifting, socializing, etc. It’s about the need to eliminate negative influences like video games, porn, TV, etc. It’s about learning to approach and accept that women like sex and have sexual criteria. Unfortunately it often stops around here.
  • The (worse) Reddit red pill discussion is about how women are evil demons and shrieking harpies and just trying to shake men down for money. This is the “anger phase” that men who discover cheating, men with f**ked up lives, men who have suffered through the divorce and “family” law court system, etc. are facing. Anger is an understandable response to trauma, but it is not the whole story.
  • The evolutionary biology discussion is a step above typical red pill discussion, or at a similar step. It’s about learning long-term patterns of attraction, behavior, and incentives for men and women. It’s about field reports and testing the theory in real life.
  • A step above that is applying patterns to individual cultures and situations.
  • A step above that is seeing women as members of a group but also evaluating them as individuals. We are both at once. Not all women are alike, though one can see patterns.
  • A step to the side of this relates to things like having FMF threesomes, and that sort of thing. Things that are way off most guys’s radar, because most guys don’t get past the beginner issues.

Other thoughts

There is also monogamy/non-monogamy, which for me usually slots between “repeat sex” and “Where is this going?” You can put sex clubs in that zone as well, although sometimes it will appear earlier, in dates/seduction. If a woman says she is not looking for anything serious, thinks monogamy is silly, likes experimenting with drugs, like music festivals, etc., then she’s likely a party girl and an especially good candidate for sexual exploration. A woman who is looking for something serious, wants to have a family, is close with her family, etc., is not as good a candidate. Experienced guys also

Consciousness of the other person’s world(s) might be another, and one I have been talking about lately, maybe because I find myself thinking about ways out of the game… I am not going to be able to get top girls forever and I don’t think I want the rest of my life to be about chasing tail.

Some men also don’t like spending time with women (Krauser seems to be like this) and that impedes relationship/emotion formation. I’m not saying that men automatically have to want relationships or emotional connection but I am noting it.

Other levels could be devised, and I don’t claim this to be exhaustive… some levels could be collapsed and others expanded. “Theory” and “practice” for example are common divisions and those are fine too. You’ll sometimes run into keyboard jockeys who are repeating red pill ideas they found somewhere else, rather than telling stories from their own lives… I push many guys towards writing blogs because I want to read their stories and a large body of writing is often a good way to do a first pass as to whether they’re likely full of shit or not.

Another point around levels is 1. underlying value, 2. game/conveying value and 3. environment. Many guys attracted to red pill and seduction have low value and must raise their value (thus that conversation is happening). Without higher underlying value they will most often image match. A male 5 will find a female 3 – 5. Many guys can raise their value a lot through the standard red pill advice… if it is executed properly. Just like a lot of women can raise their value when they quit sugar, be less bitchy, etc.

A guy with pretty low value who tries to learn “game” is likely to be disappointed… and he is going to have a lot of corrosive interactions with women. Then he is going to sign up at the usual sites and complain about how mean women are, not realizing that he’s seeing his own value reflected back at him. If he is a 5 chasing 7s he is going to have a rough time. If he is a 5 who can raise his value to a 7 the game is still challenging but he will be much more in the game and much less likely to take to Internet fora to write about how women are super duper bad.

Neither men nor women are bad, on average…. there are bad individuals in each group…. if you think half the planet is universally bad… that tells us about you, not about women, or men.

Male value is more malleable than female value and men are more inclined to date up AND down in age range. The “bitter older woman asking where the good men are” genre occurs almost exclusively after age 30 and most often after age 35, when top guys in that age range are dating women in their 20s, or have already married and have families. If you read stories by women about how bad men are, you are almost always reading stories about how a woman is disappointed that a man who is +2 SMV compared to her doesn’t want to be monogamous with her.

This genre about the “good men” deficit exists because women are surprised that their SMV goes down and the guys they could get easily at age 25 are now passing on them or choosing easy sex without commitment. Delusional women think that they primarily desire social status / wealth / confidence / education etc. in men, so they will cultivate those virtues in themselves, only to find men are not totally indifferent to those things, but are not primarily moved by them. I mean, I’d love to have women in my life who make more money than me and are also hot and also want to lavish me with sexual attention, etc., but that is not a typical outcome. Most people see their incomes rise throughout their early lives and incomes tend to peak around age 50, and in the 45 – 60 range. I don’t believe I’ve ever had sex with a woman that old and my interest in it is nonexistent, though maybe one day I will (I won’t be able to get anyone else!) and, for most women, by the time they generate the highest incomes, they are not in my target priority pool. I understand why guys who are uncertain of their value and who don’t bring much are worried about higher-earning women but to be honest if you’re working on value in other fields you should be all right. Half of doctors and a lot of other people in the medical professions are now women and not all of them are unattractive.

“More malleable” status still requires putting in the work, which most guys can’t or won’t. Many guys are also building from shitty foundations, so the foundations must be torn up and rebuilt, and that’s hard. In some ways I have been building value since I was a child… and reaping it throughout my adult life. Many guys also don’t see the higher levels of game, which can get a bit “hippie” like when it comes to raising consciousness, helping others build their value, etc.

For example, there is the endless Internet talk of the “nice” guy. Women like men who are kind… but not men who are weak supplicants hoping to f**k based on being “nice.” Women do like hot, high-status guys who are also kind, not based on trying to get sex, but based on genuine non-reciprocity and conscious decision-making… from a position of strength. I am not a nice guy… I have slept with women who now hate me… I have fired people who needed the job but were bad at it… I have broken rules… I have slept with married women… but I have also been kind, at times. I have given value without getting anything in return. I have helped people, including strangers. I have gone the extra distance. I have played with small children in front of attractive women (I have a fun and favorite story about this subject). By the time I was 20 or 21, however, I had figured out that being “nice” to women is a turn off and demonstration of lower value (DLV) that moves me away from f**king her, not towards f**king her, so I quit doing that.

Do women like nice guys? It depends. Definitely not niceguys, one word. But do they like a guy who they see as having high SMV, who is maybe a little mysterious in some ways, doing something nice for someone else, without any expectation of things in return? Probably. But they also like funny guys… most humor has an edge… if you don’t have an edge, you won’t be that funny. I have made mean comments… told mean jokes… I will again too.

I am getting off topic, but I am overall in favor of Rollo, Reddit’s Red Pill and seduction, etc., even when some guys aren’t, because they the average or low level guy above his most basic level. They clear away a lot of bullshit mystification and set guys up to reach the higher end of their abilities. So that is a net win in my view, even if they tend to cluster at the lower level of the ladders, and I want mostly to talk about the middle and upper end of the ladders… there is a lot of good material on developing underlying game and value in Krauser, in the book Mate, in other places, so I don’t have anything unique to add there. Plus, game can be thought of a little bit like chess in that for good players the first 5 – 10 moves are memorized calls and responses and gamed out… the interesting stuff happens midgame.

But… to go back to the open forums and some blogs… some of these places focus too much on resentment, and how women are bad (they’re not, in most cases, unless men let them be bad…. women are mostly self-interested), how feminism is bad (modern feminism is bad, I agree, and I’m glad someone wants to fight that fight, but I don’t), etc. These places rarely have any talk about how to get guys from the medium level into the higher levels. I doubt most guys who get to the higher levels spend time in these places. The places with voting, tend to have strong crab-bucket mentality, in which low-level guys downvote anything that they can’t perceive, because it’s too high level for them to understand or get. Many of them are in the “anger” phase when they realize they’ve been lied to for much of their lives and that they would have been better off lifting heavy weights in high school than “being themselves,” soulfully waiting for some flighty teen girl to notice them, but she didn’t, cause she was off f**king a wrestler.

Without knowing where a guy is… it’s hard to address his needs, beliefs, etc. I have spent time at the lower parts of this ladder, with lots of limiting beliefs, etc., that meant I didn’t perform where I should have performed. That said I have not had some of the physical, intellectual, and social problems that some guys describe. I have not married the wrong woman and then suffered divorce-rape. I have not had some of the extremely bitter and caustic experiences some guys have, which damages their psychologies. I have had plenty of negative experiences with women, but none of the truly awful ones. Some of that has been luck and I don’t deny luck’s role. I have had a lot of luck! Given my love of raw dogging… a lot, lot of luck. Some of it though has been a decent amount of work building and protecting value. I also had a pretty early sense of reciprocity and value exchange… so if a woman was trying to take value without offering any in return, I was (somewhat) good at protecting myself from that. Not perfectly because in my teens and early 20s I was scared of top girls lavished a lot of attraction-killing retention, followed them around like a puppy, listened to their stories about the guys they really liked or were fucking, etc. I needed eye-contact work and escalation work. But I was never as low as some guys are/were, and I had some things going for me.

The bottom-level discussion online has clarified things for me, taught me things, made vague ideas concrete. I don’t scorn that level of discussion. Many guys need it. The absence of top-level discussion is revealing… it tells us about the state of the masses. That’s why I began writing the blog… I realized that in other venues, almost no guys faced the “where is this going?” conversation, and wouldn’t understand the dilemmas faced by guys who get it regularly. I realized that the high-level discussion of sex clubs for players would have no role. Most often the response would be “cuck lol.” For a guy who struggles to get and maintain one woman… who is worried about losing her… who is unsure about his own status… this response makes a lot of sense. I get where he’s coming from. He’s playing a risky game with rewards he can’t perceive. For a guy who struggles with liking women and wanting to maintain them while also achieving sexual novelty… this strategy can make sense. Where a guy is will condition his response.

There’s also nothing wrong with being a beginner… almost all of us start there… but most guys never seem to get past the most beginner of beginning stage.

It’s perfectly normal of course for a guy to be high level and not like what I’m doing. But a guy who is at the lower levels… he can probably barely understand what I’m doing, or the problems I’m familiar with facing.

In real life I meet plenty of guys who never get past the lowest levels. They’ve had one or a very few girlfriends they got by luck and circumstance. They don’t understand women. Maybe they got married and now their marriage is stale and they don’t understand why. Their wife or girlfriend isn’t intersted in sex with them. They stay together “for the sake of the kids” without understanding what is wrong. They “got lucky” with her. They say, “She’s the boss” (words that have never passed my lips and never will). They tolerate bad behavior because they think they have to. Plenty of guys never get past these levels… and they can still get a woman of some kind, have kids eventually, pass on their genes, etc., but the sense of mystery and frustration never ends. It troubles them when they are watching sports or playing video games… then their team does the thing, or their video game makes a fake fitness demand on them, and the trouble vanishes, cause the team just did the thing or the video game requires a move.

The red pill and seduction communities exist to boost these guys. Plenty of them will accept the boost… but not that many will go all the way… I am interested in the ones who want to go all the way, who want to play the game but also understand the game, who want to seduce women but also improve the women who are open to being improved and worth of being improved, the ones who want to master the game so they can move past the game.

I don’t submit myself as one who has surpassed the game or one who is at the highest levels… I can see the higher levels, I believe. Chances are I can never reach most guys cause most guys are at the lower levels or if they aren’t they will never find this. I can keep trying to do a little better, though.

Types of girls and dangers of most seduction techniques

Redpill and seduction communities are focused on hot young party girls. And that’s fine! Great, even. I’ve spent loads of time chasing and attempting to f**k and sometimes even f**king these girls, so I’m well familiar with them and why redpill and seduction guys give the advice they (we) do. But the girls who have either quit that phase or who have never really been in it… they are not going to accept a lot of techniques you’ll hear the most about. You need to master the game to move beyond the game, if you want to find and get them… a theme I have been blathering on about lately. Those girls might be much more interested in your underlying value and your commitment willingness, rather than your party f**k-boy manslut ways.

Today’s discussion begins from me, noticing that “women are the ultimate red pillers. Men are just noticing what’s already there,” regarding some chick’s conversation with her hypergamous friend,

Then FortWorthPlay said, “NEVER feel bad for using Dread Game..they secretly love it and it makes their panties wet.” I’m not so sure…

Depends on the girl I think…. one who is psychologically healthy and really wants a relationship/family needs very little dread, and a very light touch. She’ll reject a guy who does dread game on her.

Most basic college/party girls, yeah, sure.

‘Types’ are important here.

Types” is a Nash point… one I have adopted… I have been “a certain type of player” and also Nash has written about “types” on this blog, “First off, you’re doing something SMART here by starting with some TYPES. It is a simple fact that we are not all the same, and by defining some types… we can introduce some tools and immediately know that they are not for everyone, but that doesn’t make them invalid. With that said… for me the ‘poly’ community is a fucking mess.”

Types. Environments. I have been most consumed by chasing hot chicks in the city. Big-city girls, and particularly young ones, are also more likely to be hunting fun sexual experiences from the ever-discussed “alpha males.” I have spent some time in smaller cities for work and they have a less feral sex culture. Women and men marry earlier. Children are more common. Divorce may be more common as wel but that is a separate point.

Continue reading “Types of girls and dangers of most seduction techniques”

The player’s journey blog

The player’s journey blog. If you’re a player you should write one. It’s been much more interesting than I would have thought, especially hearing from other players.

If you write online, your blog becomes a resume of sorts. When I hear from guys, part of what I’m always asking is, “Is this guy full of shit?” There’s usually no way for me to tell from the initial contact. If he has a blog, that lets me quickly browse and try to figure out if he’s full of shit or not. It’s not totally clear and I’m sure some guys fake it (why bother though?)

Plus, sometimes I learn things.

I’ve also said before that the search traffic is a fantastic reason to start a blog. As of this moment, today 25 readers have come through search. I’m sure the majority glance and leave. But how many guys have showed up and had their eyes opened? If you look around you in your real life (you have one of those, yes?), you will notice how f**ked up most guys are. Most guys also lack the knowledge needed to change, the will to change, and the desire to change, but I like to think some readers are seeking the path and will eventually find the path. Then it becomes good to show others the way.

It is dangerous to let a blog replace the life (I have been slightly but noticeably guilty of that). So don’t do that. But if you’re a guy who has been thinking about starting, just do it, and give up if it doesn’t work. I wrote a few things on Reddit, thinking that was all I had to say… then I wrote more… then I realized that Reddit is mostly for newbies… hit WordPress… now I have wasted far too much time doing this but I’ve also learned a lot about myself and heard from interesting other dudes so there’s been substantial benefit as well.

Some of the most interesting conversations are happening privately but you won’t get an invite to them without a public presence.

Yoylo’s first sex club experience [FR]

If you follow me on Twitter you may have seen Yoylo… this is his first field report on the blog, and follow his adventures on Twitter too. I like this story because it illustrates the dangers of not being on the same team with your date, and I worry that I have given too positive a vision of the non-monogamy world.

A bit of a background: I got married at 23, and she was 23 as well. Our daughter was born at 26 and by 30 we all moved from Russia to Sydney. But my then-wife and I separated mid 2018 and divorce papers are in court now. Joint application. The hearing is scheduled for early 2020.

A few months after our separation she found a guy, late 40s or early 50s, who she fucks semi-regularly till now. She tried a few other guys but no one stuck except that one. Apparently he’s a good fuck, knows what he’s doing, but they have no other relations but sex at her place once per week or less (this guy comes as he pleases).

I banged a few girls and had a mini-relationship with one city chick in the Philippines, where I go periodically to check on my property; I bought an investment condo a while ago, so I’m there a few times per year. I went in April as well and spent a weekend with this “girlfriend.”

My ex and I remained friends after separation and talked openly about her sex with this guy and my stuff with various women too. We met regularly for a coffee or a drink and to spend time with our daughter together. And we fucked a few times; the first time you fuck a woman is almost always the most challenging, as subsequent sex doesn’t increment her internal notch counter. This is part of the Matthew Effect: the more women a guy fucks, the more likely he’s going to have one rebound on his cock.

Continue reading “Yoylo’s first sex club experience [FR]”

Women hate the demystification of romance: commodities, artisans, and the game

Women hate game but simultaneously women hate guys with no game. Players look at this and initially think it makes no sense, because on the surface it doesn’t… women should want guys to learn game and learn how to please women instead of repulsing women with awkward banter, technical talk, sports talk, politics, terrible fashion, etc. Yet we have all seen game demonized by some women and feminists, who also complain that there are no “good” men (since men don’t learn how to be effective with women). I would probably never tell a woman in real life about consciously practicing “the game,” although I have encouraged a few to read Neil Strauss (they hate THE GAME the book).

What gives? The seduction and sex process is probably shrouded in more mystification than any other common human activity in the entire world. The whole culture is collectively blowing so much smoke around seduction and sex that women don’t understand it either (thus many women encourage men to do things that the woman herself doesn’t like, like “Just be nice to her,” fine advice if you are +2 or +3 relative to her in SMV and bad advice if you are not). Men don’t understand the seduction process.

What happens when you remove the mystification and understand the process? Men get more power and often become less interested in commitment. Women hate game because it demystifies romance and pushes sex with a woman just a little bit closer to commodity status. A little economic theory for you, no one wants to be a commodity because a commodity can be made by many producers, pushing profit to zero or near zero. Everyone wants to be differentiated because a differentiated product can earn profits above the market rate. Apple makes more money than a thousand white-box computer makers because Apple is differentiated from white box makers; if consumers wanted to maximize income we would all be buying white box computers running Linux and a web browser. Most computer users prefer the branded experience though and producers want to create brand mystique so they can charge higher prices. Mystification can help everyone win. I’m writing this on a Macbook not a whitebox Linux laptop, so I’m as guilty as anyone.

Many guys think, “What do women want?” “I don’t understand women.” “I got lucky.” If they learn evolutionary psychology and game, they figure out what women want and how to deliver it, with much greater consistency and reliability than if we don’t learn evolutionary psychology and the game. Many women have nothing of value in their lives apart from their p***y, so, if you reduce the value of that by learning game, they have nothing to offer and end up being commodities. Hot guys with good game take them for a ride then decline commitment, leaving her feeling used and unhappy. So women demonize game and think romance should “Just happen” like it does in the romance novels they masturbate to. At the end of all romance novels a hot guy wifes up a woman… usually a woman who is lower SMV than him.

Many women are frustrated right now because they find it easy to get a guy +2 SMV for sex but can’t get him for relationships. The guy who is even SMV or -1 to her might be willing to do a relationship but he doesn’t have the value she seeks. Many women thrash in this trap for a long time… the ones who thrash in it too long end up being spinsters and writing those stories about why hot rich men won’t “man up” and marry 35 year old women past their prime. Game improves male SMV but also makes the guy choosier and less likely to commit. A guy with many options won’t be as interested in committing as a running-to-fat guy whose chief hobby is video games, with porn and TV secondary.

Economic history has parallels to this. Starting with the Industrial Revolution, people began figuring out how to produce artisanal goods at mass scale. Artisans fought like hell against this because they argued mass-produced goods can never be as pure and honest (or whatever) as hand-crafted goods. Everyday consumers were like, “LOL whatever bro” and bought whatever was cheapest and most functional. Entrepreneurs used factories to demystify the production process and make high-skill artisans redundant. The children of artisans ended up working in factories because that’s where the efficiency was. Today some artisanal commodity goods have high status again among some people, but the vast majority of us buy cups and plates and clothes that have been inexpensively made by machine.

Those artisans were angry but ineffective. We now have the term “luddite” from nineteenth century anti-technology groups who failed. Women also don’t want game entrepreneurs to apply evolutionary psychology to the dating and sex process because they want to be artisanal producers, not commodity products. No woman, except a few  unusual women like evolutionary biologist Diana Fleischman, will ever characterize the situation this way, but the instinctive anger reaction is there. Women like a guy who “just gets it” and shows his intelligence, charisma, etc. by “just getting it.” Women hate the idea that average guys can counterfeit (or more realistically learn) these traits, then avoid committing financial resources to women. Personally I think these fears are overblown because the vast majority of men are too lazy with insufficient IQs to make any of this happen. But a few will and in the process they might remove themselves from the marriage market. That’s frustrating for women. Smart men are learning from each other and using that learning to reduce female market power.

Continue reading “Women hate the demystification of romance: commodities, artisans, and the game”

That one and only one about incels

Are “involuntary celibates” (incels) in the news? I have been getting questions about them for some reason, despite not having much to say about the topic… there are very few true incels out there, but they congregate and make noise online when they should be at the gym, pumping iron…. the true incels are guys with major health problems, literal retardation, etc. Most don’t have the time and attention to post on incel boards. The ones writing are mostly unhappy because of low value and SMV appropriate to their value. You can lower your value considerably by believing you have low value, and you can raise your value some by believing you have high value. Guys working hard to raise value… probably aren’t online, cause they’re working to raise their value (same reason I wisely didn’t start writing this blog sooner). The bigger problems for online “incels” are physical (typical fat/skinny fat guys) and psychological… the two are linked. Guys with bad psychologies don’t take steps to improve themselves. Guys who don’t take steps to improve themselves develop or become mired in bad psychologies. Most incels look at successful guys and only see the tip of the spear, or they’re not willing to get the girls appropriate to their SMV. Just like fat or old women don’t get prime guys. See the theme of this blog? Reciprocity and value.

Our culture lacks the rituals and efforts necessary to turn boys into men. Those rituals build male value and outside of sports and some intellectual competitions they’re dead. Many boys lack fathers or have fathers who are hysterical women, fathers who might as well be women because of their lack of masculine identity. Moving from boy to man means accepting rejection, working towards goals, suffering, and persisting in the face of suffering. Men suffer because nature is cruel and women are unpitying in their evaluation of men. Women suffer when they have no families or when they pick men who cannot provide for pregnant women or small children, and so nature has made women pitiless in their evaluation of men. The modern context is obviously different but the evolved psychology remains. The modern context also gives us lots of fake achievements: video games, porn, fantasy sports, social media counts, TV. In moderation or as a single vice many of them are fine… but a lot of guys, especially incel-identifying guys, live in the world of these fake fitness indicators, and they are so far in the fake world that their egos cannot take the real-world feedback telling them they are unfit and need to change.

Meantime they look at the absolute top men for models. Yes, it’s true there are a small number of men born blessed with looks, money, good families, etc., who get top women without intense struggle. They are probably as rare as the men born f**ked. Everyone else…. we all struggle. But looking to others above you doesn’t matter because you can’t control them or live with their advantages. You can only control yourself, as incels don’t seem to emphasize. If you are healthy enough to get a boner, there is probably someone out there for you. If your market value level is low, you need to try and raise it. It may be very hard. Most high-value guys spend many years getting there. In my limited experiences with incels, none of them seem to emphasize this, or emphasize the way their own psychologies are f**ked.

One cruelty of our modern culture is that it thrusts the most beautiful women into advertisements all around us. We should try to avoid TV ads especially for that reason but also many other forms of hyperstimulating media. Most of us, instead of avoiding them, seek them out, then are depressed comaring them to our own lives. Then we go play video games and watch porn to compensate, propagating the fake fitness cycle.

I don’t know where I am wandering with my point, except to say that I feel bad for guys who think they’re incels, because a lot of them aren’t. They are guys with bad psychology, guys who don’t recognize their market value. If you are not where you want you have three choices, 1. bitch, 2. improve your value, 3. pursue what your value gets you. 2 and 3 are not exclusive. I have met plenty of unattractive guys who realize what they’re working with, improve what they can, and get on with it…. they often marry women who are their image match, have a family, and concentrate on that. Maybe they pay for sex sometimes, I don’t know. I was at one guy’s wedding who is like this. Probably a 4 in pure physical attractiveness and he married a woman around that same neighborhood. He’s a little chubby, she’s a little chubby. He’s short, she’s short. They have a couple of kids. People like this… they don’t make a lot of noise online. They don’t sit in forums complaining. The guy has a good job and career and gets where he’s at and works with it.

This is likely to be my only post on the topic of incels because creating a whole identity around perceiving yourself as a loser strikes me as retarded, and I don’t have a lot of time for retards. Incels probably project a retarded identity around them in real life, so anyone successful doesn’t want to be around them, perpetuating their cycle of failure. I have time for people who, if they are starting from a bad place, are working to make progress. I am only really interested in people who want to progress. People who want to stay mired where they are and bitch about being covered in mud cause they’re stuck in the mud… they are not interesting to me or anyone else. Lease of all attractive women. The smallest amount of progress is better than none. If a guy thinks he is an incel, if he has a functioning body, why is he writing online instead of doing a pushup?