Responsibility and later seduction. Internal congruence

Another topic that gets no play in the Red Pill and seduction communities, cause most guys don’t get to this later stage, it is not good to trifle with women who are heavily investing in you. This damages the woman and while it is psychologically appealing to the guy (it’s nice to have the attention and desire you can return… or not), but it creates bad feelings and outcomes. Power over women who invest happens after the guy gets game and deploys it effectively, meaning that most guys never get it and this post is not for them, so this subject confuses them, like stories about a culture they’ve never visited and can’t believe exists.

I know the logical counter to this point (about the wisdom of refusing or discouraging investment that won’t be reciprocated)… “But chicks do this all the time!” True, true. But mature chicks don’t encourage male investment and male suitors who don’t interest them. Immature chicks… greedy chicks… they will, and that’s why so many younger guys have problems with the “friend zone” and perceived female uncertainty. Younger guys don’t follow the algorithm and don’t effectively sort girls into ones who might f**k and ones who won’t. I didn’t either when I was young & stupid, not to worry. I was afraid of “no,” when “no” is a gift, a gift of my time & attention so that I can direct them consciously into better things.

Mature guys… also don’t spend a lot of time and investment in women who are unlikely to be lovers. If a woman isn’t interested… the guy withdraws and finds a woman who is. Many chicks, if attention and gifts are foisted on them by inept men, will accept those… but if you are foisting gifts on a woman who hasn’t earned them, then you kinda deserve what you get. Immature guys believe gifts and attention should be rewarded with sex… when it’s actually closer to the other way around. No one in our female-dominated culture discusses to this.

This gets me to my point… when a woman’s emotions and sex habits are connecting and converging into you… it is not good to trifle with her, lead her on, and jerk her around. You will damage her, and inflict needless cruelty, and for what? If you have decent game, the sex part may be challenging, but it shouldn’t be infinitely so.

Some dysfunctional women prematurely invest when they shouldn’t, or they can’t help themselves because the man is unusual and matches their interest, or is much higher SMV than they are. If she does that… it is not your fault. But you should let go, want to let go, chicks who are deeply converting but who you don’t fancy in that way. At least tell them that you’re not going to be their boyfriend but can be their lover. Set expectations.

This is emerging from my own experiences and from conversation with a player who is interested in non-monogamy and who has found a woman who has also been searching for this her entire life, searching for a way to reconcile mind and body, emotions and physicality. Like libido girl and a number of others I’ve met, she craves the novelty of new sex… but wants a relationship too. Most guys, if they advance from casual sex into something more structured with a woman, won’t want a woman like this (they really want a woman who will be monogamous to them). There are a lot of pretend non-monogamous guys, and even more strictly monogamous guys (when you get down to it). Women who are sexually adventurous but with hearts and the desire to pair-bond… it’s actually not easy for them. Even with monogamous women, their real, true, and full investment is intense. For the bulk of guys who have never experienced the intensity of female emotional and sexual investment…. this issue will be invisible. Like “how to end it” with a woman. It’s advanced stuff. Beginners mistake compassion for weakness. Don’t worry, I did too, once.

I’m against being mean to people. Yes, women will sometimes be mean to you, they will try to take value from you without giving it in return. Yes, it is sometimes appropriate to be mean to people, or direct in a way that is seen as mean. But what is perceived as mean or cruel is often just a balancing of the scales of value.

Notice what I am NOT doing. I am not arguing against casual sex (it would be funny if I did, given my history). I am not arguing against deepening relationships with women. I am not arguing that women are innocent damsels (they are not, and the innocent damsel trope is a lie men tell themselves in order to be p***y… in the real world, almost no one is “innocent”). “Beyond casual sex” is more fun than just f**king strangers in my view. But… I am arguing that it’s bad for you and for the woman to let a woman deeply invest in your and convert to you, if you don’t set expectations, or if you plan to just let her dangle. Cut her loose and let her invest in someone else. The world is already harsh and full of bitterness…. no need to make it harsher and more bitter. It’s bad for the man’s subconscious. Keeping your subconscious aligned with your accessible consciousness is a part of frame, a part of being congruent that, again, no one talks about. Low status guys, f**ked up guys, are incongruent, and their low value and incongruence messes with their inner game. Higher-status, higher-class guys maintain congruence and have a keen sense of loose equality in terms of value given and value taken. This is getting a bit on the “hippie” side of things, about consciousness development, but I think that’s where the the higher levels of game live. Levels a lot of guys never hit, cause they can’t get past the lower levels.

Most women, by the way, never access higher levels of consciousness. If they do, they are already post-wall, and it is too late for them to access those levels via sexuality. Most younger women rely on men to get them there, and most men disappoint. That’s part of the reason we see the discord we see.

Seek for the higher levels. Discourage investment where it’s not warranted. If you see signs of her emotional investment, decide consciously if you want to respond in kind or keep her at a distance. The beginning parts of the game are important but so is the middle and end, where few guys live and where almost no guys writing online discuss.

The more time you spend around women, the more you realize most of them are basically irresponsible and want someone else to make decisions for them. This is why we have the crazy Title IX man-hunting tribunal in the United States and why so many women distance themselves from their sexual choices. This is also why so few women make it to the top of corporate and other hierarchies, because an individual has to be intensely responsible for his choices if he’s going to be a leader, not just a follower—something that most women can’t do. Men who have a lot of experience with women also learn that most women like to follow and so men are reluctant to put women in leadership roles, for good reason. Almost no feminists will admit this, leading to the absurd statements about women in companies that shrieking harpies propagate in the media.

I actually have no problem with women running companies or whatever, but I don’t think you’ll ever see as many women in leadership roles because it’s contrary to baseline female psychology. If a woman wants to be responsible for a large company and has the personality and intellect to do so, then that’s dandy. It’s just unlikely. Most women want men to take responsibility for them… and when she lets a guy into her soul, and then he chucks her aside, she’s wounded. Try not to let her do that. A guy who starts off low status might want to be mean, as revenge… but he’s really taking revenge on himself, for putting up with behavior he shouldn’t have. No reason to do that. The world is hard enough.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

9 thoughts on “Responsibility and later seduction. Internal congruence”

  1. Great post and a big sticking point for me. Once you’ve fully internalized abundance/non neediness you will likely find girls becoming ever more amenable and doing whatever they can to implicitly convert you to non monogamy. As per your previous post, the problem is not really with the ‘Annas.’ Those girls tend to pick up on your lifestyle and self sort themselves away from you towards more compatible men.

    The older I’ve gotten, the more in harmony I want to live with the universe and tricking, lying or leading young girls on is not compatible with that. One thing you didn’t mention is that even when you are honest, open and establish your frame early on, many girls will simply take that as a challenge to be the one who could get you to change your ways and convert you to full monogamy. I’ve fallen into this dynamic many times, its psychologically rewarding to the ego of both parties.

    Here as with everything your frame has to be incredibly strong. Simple practices like not seeing a girl more than once a week have been very useful in this regard. Chicks aren’t stupid, they know what that means. At the same time girls just naturally want to compete and outdo each other. I can’t imagine thats any different in the world of sex clubs?

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    1. “even when you are honest, open and establish your frame early on, many girls will simply take that as a challenge ”

      I’ve had this happen when traveling on business trips… A couple girls got really upset that I was banging other girls in their city, even though they knew my situation. They had this fantasy of being the only girl I was seeing there, which I never promised or implied since travel time is my time to chase a bunch of skirts. Another one fantasized about me taking vacations away from family to go see her. Et cetera…

      Liked by 1 person

  2. > I was afraid of “no,” when “no” is a gift, a gift of my time & attention so that I can direct them consciously into better things.

    Speaking of mature ^

    > “But chicks do this all the time!”
    > relationships with women. I am not arguing that women are innocent damsels

    Here ^ I hear you talking to the “redpillers.” You’re address a particular redpill obsession here. I often wonder, what (if anything) Redpill added to the endless male catalog of thought… And that “little brother whine” of “But, but, but” is one example of what typifies “redpill” sentiment.

    > you should let go, want to let go, chicks who are deeply converting but who you don’t fancy in that way. At least tell them that you’re not going to be their boyfriend but can be their lover. Set expectations.

    To make it personal:

    This has been a so/so year for game for me (for a host of reasons), but…

    I had two girls (both Chinese Nationals) really invest in me. And I gave them intense romance on long dates… But realized they were making it something more.

    They live in China… even though we have the lifestyle to do some “international dating,” to me, that geo-barrier is enough to realize the love should have limits. neither of these girls seemed to care.

    The first was rather bull-headed about it, but the 2nd…. Miss Bangs… it was hard to let her go, but I did. I have said from my 2nd date w/ her that someone should marry that girl. She is beautiful and a remarkably graceful woman. but it’s not going to be me… And I know it. And she is full of I Love Yous. I let her go. I wish her the best. And I will Miss her. But I can’t take up her time when she sees it at that level of commitment.

    Fantastic piece, man.

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    1. >>You’re address a particular redpill obsession here. I often wonder, what (if anything) Redpill added to the endless male catalog of thought… And that “little brother whine” of “But, but, but” is one example of what typifies “redpill” sentiment.

      It’s like in business… it doesn’t matter if it’s you’re fault… it’s your problem.

      Women are mostly reactive. Men are mostly proactive. Men want women to be more proactive but that will never happen.

      A top man… he becomes someone who is not a p***y, who doesn’t give away value… but he accepts the random nature of chicks and accepts that it is within his power to help chicks (and other guys) grow, within whatever limitations we all have. He has an open hand and realizes that many chicks will not accept it and is okay with that.

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  3. “even when you are honest, open and establish your frame early on, many girls will simply take that as a challenge to be the one who could get you to change your ways and convert you to full monogamy.”

    Good point. I’ve heard people say that girls will keep trying, pretending to be able to handle the guy seeing other girls, for only a limited time. My experience is that 6 months is common. After that if the guy doesn’t show signs of furthering commitment, things get shaky.

    My experience is that it doesn’t matter what the man says, nor what the woman says. Emotions are not contractual agreements. Jealousy can become overwhelmingly powerful. Everything might seem normal and then suddenly the girl will snap. Or start to look for other options.

    It’s similar to not marrying, or knocking a girl up. At first what she’ll SAY is that everthing is cool and casual. But sooner or later, most girls give the ultimatum. Or at least stop taking their pill. Doesn’t matter how much you scream at them to stop bulshitting about the pill, some will just say whatever it takes to shut you up, and then still not take the pill. They feel it’s a unilateral decision to either get pregnant or not.

    I like pair bonding; it’s one of my favorite parts of hanging out with girls. It comes very natural to me, and many girls have eventually tried to make a monogamous live in parent out of me. I’ve caused tons of pain because I really love the phase before having kids, and also have really loved having more than one girl. But girls are biologically hard wired to deeply and institutionally want to have babies. For girls, sex, eventually, is about babies. Guys seem oblivious to this fact about women. I NEVER hear that mentioned. It’s a huge deal, and sooner or later, either she gets what she wants, or there will be some sort of blow up, or fallout.

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  4. Yes. The suffering in game really does mirror the suffering in life. Humans seem to really struggle with fact that nothing is permanent. There are girls who I would have happily repeated the first year or two of our relationship on an endless loop for the rest of my life. Of course thats delusional but I really believe most men get married thinking thats what they are signing up for. The first two years. Repeated. Forever. “Women marry men hoping they’ll change. Men marry women hoping they won’t. Both are disappointed.”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Well said. But I’ve heard, and find it believable, that as many as 10% of relationships remain loving long term.

      I’ve been living with a girl for two years. I’m better at that than I used to be, and she’s pretty good at it. 30 years younger, and physically my style. We get along really well. That kind of thing does happen, sometimes.

      Liked by 1 person

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