Dating sex positive and non-monogamous girls… and a ramble about the game

A player asked about the last FR… I told him that some of the women at that sex party were quite hot, but they were also looking for guys who are already good at what the women want… like, if you’re a guy and you’re not willing to do some mfm, they’re just not going to be super interested, and some women who’ve had a taste of what’s possible will not date vanilla guys anymore. Instead they want to date guys who can manage jealousy and who have underlying sex skills… those guys are not readily available commodities… so when hot women find guys who can make these peak experiences happen, some of them are happy to have found their male unicorn. Lots of guys will pretend to be non-vanilla and non-monogamous in order to get the lay, but few of them truly are, so women get tired of trying to separate out the pretenders from the real thing.

The player said

Can you just clarify this? These chicks wouldn’t date a vanilla guy just because he has not had experience/not into MFM? Really? I’m trying to gauge the value of MFM in my mind.

The hot women I’m thinking about would likely be open to dating a vanilla guy who is genuinely up for MFM, but a lot of vanilla guys will be excited for FMF (obviously), yet they’ll balk at the other way around. They don’t reciprocate, and reciprocation is a key aspect of human social life and bonding. A lot of guys are also sexually open minded in theory, but when the time for practice arrives, they change their mind and want exclusivity, etc. One woman I know searched for a primary partner and dated like 4 – 6 guys from the internet (not simultaneously), all of whom said they were cool with non-monogamy… then told her they wanted an exclusive relationship. She is a poly s**t so she dumped each. A lot of kinky/non-mono women find vanilla guys useless, cause it’s easy to waste weeks/months on them, just to discover that in reality, no, the guy doesn’t really want to be non-monogamous, although he’s fine with some fmf threesomes… just like every guy straight guy alive.

On the other side of the equation, some monogamously-inclined girls don’t want mfm. Why? If a woman really wants a conventional monogamous boyfriend who is going to be into her, mfm sets that goal back, and most men who will go for mfm will also seek fmf… a small number of guys are into hotwifing/cuckolding or whatever it may be called, but those defective guys are pretty rare.

For most people there is a period of adjustment to group sex, non-monogamy, etc., and that period can last months or years. Many people dip their toe in, then decide it’s not for them and bounce. It is common for both men and women to spend weeks or months with a vanilla person who might or might not be transitioning to being a s**t, only to have the vanilla person decide nah… it’s not for them. Women get super frustrated with this because most women, including non-monogamous ones, want long-term primary relationships. Most guys are more okay with a long training period during which they’re also f**king the new girl and if she bounces, then it’s on to the next one.

Many people also find it hard to reconcile non-monogamy with kids… something I have been thinking about as I flail around in a bit of a midlife crisis… I’m pretty satisfied overall… I definitely don’t want to come off as a whiner, cause the problems I have been having are good problems to have, compared to a lot of other problems. I do feel like there’s a kind of question about what I want the rest of my life, or at least the next 10-20 years, to look like, and I feel good about having spent a lot of time and effort chasing p***y, but now I feel like I want to do something else, and I think writing has helped clarify that… I’ve dumped what I think I’ve learned, especially in the book, so now other guys can spend less time figuring out the stuff that I mostly had to do on my own. Not 100%, cause a lot of chicks and beta males (not my favorite phrase but it fits here) have written about non-monogamy (books like the Ethical Slut, More Than Two), and a lot of players have come before me (Neil Strauss, Mystery, Krauser, etc.). I have taken the two, mashed them together, and come out with something that might even be original.

A lot of players seem to have had bad teen/early 20s experiences… but I think a lot of guys who have pretty sexually successful college experiences and experiences in their 20s… still obviously like sleeping with hot girls (I doubt that goes away as long as a man is capable), but if you’ve done a lot, there is no feeling of “missing out.” No feeling of wondering “What is it really like?” No feeling of “What did other guys get to do that I have never experience?” I think those feelings drive a lot of guys age 25+ who get into the game.

In college I wasn’t routinely rolling around with and sleeping with 8s in bulk… but there were some… I was also in incredible shape, which made a lot of game easier, even without social media. I had bad style/fashion then (didn’t matter too much)… I also didn’t know how bad sugar is, but my diet was still pretty good overall. But a guy who combines good aesthetics + okay social skills + club sports + going to parties + not having any really bad habits, can do pretty well just by showing up and not being too much of a p***y. Lots of girls complain about fat lazy guys who can’t be bothered to get off their asses and make a play… so a guy who does that… is already beating a lot of other guys.

It is crazy to be “into” possessions, like cars/TVs/McMansions in the suburbs… what is the point of those possessions? It’s almost always to enhance social prestige and sex life, except most people don’t give a f**k. If you want to be a bit antisocial, like Socrates, when someone brags about their luxury bullshit purchases, ask why they want that. Ask what they think it is doing to improve their lives. Ask about their truest desires and long term goals. Most men who buy expensive shit subconsciously want to impress chicks. But, for most chicks, the shit a guy can buy is very far down in the list of things she truly wants/needs/considers. The game, pursued rigorously, makes a man confront what is really important to him. A man who pushes far enough in… may find himself where I have been… and he may look down on the guys who “have it all” but can’t pay for it, and who find that a little gust of financial wind knocks it all down.

For a guy who wants the best in life, he should skip the possession obsession and think about why he is buying all that s**t.

Most of the posts I write link to other posts because everything I write works together… it’s like a rope… a strong rope has many strands woven together… there is no “one thing” that makes what I have been doing work together… it is about braiding the many individual strands into something strong. There are 6 – 7 links here because it’s about putting all the strands together. Most guys lack the cognitive abilities needed to understand in total the game… and if they have the cognitive abilities… they still probably lack the discipline needed to execute.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

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