Character, game, dating, and would YOU swap lives?

I was talking to Lee Cho daygame on Twitter about this, “One thing I’ve noticed about the game guys who write in depth… very few make me think, ‘I want to be that person.’ Many seem to have something interesting about them but very few seem top of the heap.” Most of the online game guys seem to have a bit of a screw loose, or lack common sense, or the ability to connect (for real, in a deep way) with other people… this shows, eventually, in their writing. Roosh might be the poster boy for this effect… I read him a bit years ago, probably like 2011 or 2013 or something, and found him interesting in terms of his game obsession but, even then, it was obvious that something was internally wrong with him, psychologically or spiritually, for lack of better words. Top guys (and girls… this is really a “human” thing, not a “man” or “woman” thing) have internal congruence, and people who lack it stand out… which Roosh seemed to, even back then… his interest in f**king women seemed to come from underlying dislike and disdain for women… which many women no doubt sensed, even if they couldn’t articulate what was off about him. So the higher-value, better-put-together women probably avoided him… which reinforced some of his negative views about women… leading to a cycle. Mature adults are highly attuned to congruence and will distance themselves from people who lack congruence.

There is “good screw loose” in the sense of someone who is smart but sees the world differently, and there is “bad screw loose” in the sense of someone who is off, f**ked up, etc. The online game guys don’t seem like they have a screw loose in the crazy inventor / startup founder / rogue genius way… it’s more like a screw loose in the way of the kid no one wants to pick for their team/group… even if the online guys get really good and accomplished at game. A lot of top girls, even the ones who are open to cold approach (lots are), are going to judge a guy based on his social world and social network… if the guy doesn’t have one, or much of one, she’s going to spot that quickly. So it’s going to be hard for a lot of guys to get or retain better girls… there are limits to the front. The better girls are also going to be super curious about character, and, if they find it lacking, they are going to pull away.

In real life… the people I most like and admire, I wouldn’t want to literally take over their lives, exactly, but there’s a lot in them to emulate, not just in their field of expertise, usually. Status/coolness first, THEN evangelize for whatever the thing is. Among guys developing game skills… almost none of them I’d want to trade places with… not at even odds… the number whose overall lives I admire… is pretty small. We’ve all probably met people who are “successful” in some domain, but there is something wrong with them, and whatever is wrong keeps them from getting to where they might get otherwise.

Take… let’s use the “all women blah blah blah” guys as an example. I agree that all women have the capacity to blah blah blah (whatever the example is)… but not all will… an example story from my life… there are others. Or the ones who say all women are lazier and worse than men in a bunch of ways… well, one study claims that women in their 20s now out-earn men in their 20s… one of my own early work mentors was a woman… she was at the top of her field. On average women are worse-suited to leading and creating large organizations… but there are exceptions, and “on average” conceals a lot… in terms of dating, all women have the capacity to cheat, sure… but not all do/will. If you think so, try to get women to have a philander with you… some will, but a lot won’t. If the woman is stepping out… there’s usually also something wrong with you, with her, or with the relationship… but men don’t like to emphasize that.

Top women… don’t put up with less-than-top men… women will also show you who they are, usually pretty early, and MOST GUYS IGNORE THE SHOW. Then… they bitch when the woman acts the way she has shown him she will act… you already knew, or should have known, who she is, but you choose to ignore that (the p***y is good) and then come to the Internet to cry… or to your friends… meanwhile… are you asking yourself who you are, and what you are bringing to the relationship… no, you are not… are you asking yourself what signs you missed… probably not.

If a woman bitches about all the cads she meets, and how guys are all blah blah blah… it’s like, you have probably met thousands of men, and if they are “all like this…” what do they all have in common… you? Same thing with men. Same thing in business. Have you ever met a manager whose employees are somehow all stupid and incompetent? Or an employer who can’t ever get workers? If he says that… then the manager hasn’t learned to be a manager, he hasn’t learned to help people level up their skills, or something is wrong with him if EVERYONE is incompetent. The business is not paying enough, or something else is the matter. I have already written about the most common problem women who can’t find a man have, “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures.” Well, in business, if a manager or company cannot find any employees, then something is wrong with wages, work environment, location, or something else. It’s up to the manager to diagnose those problems and make changes. Markets are pretty efficient. Most often the problem is wages. People want to make more money, not less, and if the firm is not paying adequately, people will go to the firms that are.

Character judgment is hard and often separate from physical attraction… most people claim to want both in one… most often they pick one and go for that… and get results consistent with it. Extremely effective people blame themselves for successes or especially failures, even when the success or especially failure is outside of their control. The question is always, “What could I have done differently?” “What do I do differently in the future?” Kids rarely do this… to a kid, it’s always someone else’s fault… to the true adult, it’s always my fault, even if it’s someone else’s fault… the most effective people do this… if you follow Elon Musk you know that he knows just about every single part that goes in a SpaceX rocket or Tesla car… he learns relentlessly, because he knows that if the rocket explodes, no matter whose fault it is, it is his fault. Look at the Boeing managers, by contrast. In Boeing, it is always someone else’s fault. But Boeing has an unfair crony capitalist market that is heavily tied into politicians, so Boeing can’t fail, over the short term, because it’s being propped up by regulators. Unless you are a trust fund kid or something, you have to get by on your own wiles.

Character judgment is separate from technical ability… people who are wise are doing it all the time… it is what I am doing when I write, “One thing I’ve noticed about the game guys who write in depth… very few make me think, ‘I want to be that person.’ Many seem to have something interesting about them but very few seem top of the heap.” Maybe they are different in real life… reading their writing, though, problems with character, personality, and intellect seem to leak out… even among the ones with very high technical skill… Krauser is probably the most technically skilled person writing about the game… but as for his character… read his blog/memoirs closely and decide for yourself… don’t take my word… don’t take my word for anything… try it for yourself… develop your own style, sense of judgment, etc. I can help you think about how to think about things, but I can’t tell you what to think. Many people never develop these skills properly and suffer for it, including many guys who are technically good at game.

I have seen some of the RSD videos, and none or almost none of them make me think, “This guy is admirable and I’d want to hang out with him.” Some of them probably have game… almost none of them seem like guys I admire.

There are exceptions… red pill dad seems pretty well put together, although I disagree with him in places… same with Magnum… not surprisingly, they want to stay anonymous… cause they know in the real world, the penalty of being made known is high… the amount of money one can earn from coaching is low… and most guys can’t be helped cause they’re too incompetent to be helped, or have deep problems, and “bad with chicks” is a manifestation of their underlying problems. A symptom, not a cause. A few guys can be helped… they are the ones I am most speaking to. The number of psychologically okay, well-put-together adult men who don’t have a real job, is super small. There is a lot of “location-independent income” roleplay happening online. I am 100% in favor of real small businesses that can do real location-independent income… that is, however, far harder to achieve than the online hucksters would have the average guy believe, as stated. Most of the guys pitching this… have little evidence of it. I don’t think I know any adult guy in real life, who is put together effectively and doesn’t have a real job of some kind. Effective adult guys… have a job… almost all of the time.

Effective guys also evaluate their effects on other people. There is a lot of “tough guy” role play online right now, among guys who think COVID precautions are stupid. Effective guys who are in touch with older parents / relatives / employers / employees… don’t wish to get those people sick, even if they don’t care too much about themselves… that is a point in How I see dating, girls, COVID-19, and the quarantines, right now.” Willful disregard of others tells us something about the guy, his mental state, and his social world. What it tells us… is not good. We know that the route through COVID and minimizing it runs through masks… yet there’s a bunch of anti-mask roleplay online (masks are a tool, not a symbol). Some guys will mistake the online game for the real world… which is sad… but maybe becoming more common.

If you read this whole piece… along with the original internal congruence one… you will see that a lot of it is about boy psychology versus man psychology… as well as, a bit less, girl psychology versus adult woman psychology. Girls are often attracted to men… and men are often attracted to younger women… but it is useful to see how and where these things intersect… and what maturity looks like. Some women reach psychological and emotional maturity very early… and if a man can’t match them, and grow with them, he is not going to last with her. People are messed up in some ways, are often attracted to and attractive to other people who are messed up. I mostly avoid the most messed-up girls (and guys)… I have f**ked girls who are somewhat messed up… probably not smart buy I have done it… but I have kept them at a distance. If the girl finds you messed up enough, and not in an attractive dark broody way, she is not going to f**k you… she is going to fade away. She doesn’t want to be in your life, like you don’t want to be in the lives of people with bad/weak character.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

28 thoughts on “Character, game, dating, and would YOU swap lives?”

  1. I think Krauser is a perfect example of your premise. I’ve learnt a lot from his blog and even bought a couple of his books. But if you read through the lines, he’s a mid 40’s guy, with no kids who spends half the year living with his parents in Newcastle. Throw in the casual racism and there is precisely nothing about him I’d want to replicate in my own life. Blackdragon is another interesting example, while his life is set up a little closer to my liking, I was genuinely surprised when I first saw him in the flesh on YouTube. It’s not that he misrepresented himself, he was always honest about his struggles with weight, thinning hair etc. But honestly his style / appearance / obvious wig thing, made me think of those slightly desperate older guys you see sometimes in low margin sales jobs competing with a bunch of 20 somethings. Perhaps in person, behind closed doors, he is great, but the 20-25 year old girls I date would not be seen out with him. All goes to the point that the very top tier guys are not reading or writing blogs, the tier below, you, Magnum, redipilldad etcetc are reading and writing or commenting (me) anonymously. And somewhere below that are the public persona guys who have some undiagnosed reason they are seeking attention and fame.

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    1. I’ve learned a lot from him too… but I also get the sense that few of the girls I date would go for him… could be wrong here. Most of the guys on reddit red pill also don’t seem like guys top girls would go for.

      I’m okay with some casual racism (have done it myself), but for him it seems deep, abiding, and fundamental… that is the problem IMO… someone driven by hate… it is not good.

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    2. Krauser is an introverted person, like me. I say this because he reads a lot, which is an introversion tell. He is probably not interested in having children either. Living with parents will become more and more common in the West, like it has been here in Spain for a while now (unless things change dramatically).

      He is the guy I feel more identified with in this sphere, because I get the impression that what motivates him is the desire not to be left out of the loop of the RP “secret society”. I am in a similar place, although alas I lack his sheer willpower to go through the gruelling experience of daygame.

      Ambition is the marker of the PUA. Ambition and (presumably) rage. Rage at being deprived of sexual experiences at some point.

      If you are a person who has had a ‘normal’ number of relationships and interactions with women in the past, and is using game to somewhat “optimize” your sex life, you probably would not understand the mindset.

      Also, being genuinely interested in politics is also rare. You are preoccupied by things most people don’t care about because they don’t see a benefit in their daily lives. Hence your dismay at his “racism”.

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  2. I appreciate the nod of confidence, but I’ve definitely far from perfect and I’m sure plenty of people think I’ve my priorities all wrong, but that’s neither here nor there.

    You’re certainly correct, however, that game draws in some strange types of guys. Part of that’s selection bias–if you’re a socially calibrated guy who’s successful with women, you never take it this far because for the most part you don’t need to AND then there are the redpill guys like me and Magnum, who’ve been married and got back into game because it’s the only way older guys today can meet women who are actually attractive. Regardless, any guy in game has rejected a lot of what society says: if your n-count is more than 12 a year and your regularly fucking women more than 10 years younger, most people would say there’s something wrong with you, even if they know deep down, that what you’re doing is fucking awesome.

    But it’s never going to be accepted–or we’re at least a long way from a time when it will–so you have to be enough of a rebel to deal with that and not care. And that’s hard.

    I mean, I’ll be 100% transparent. I love my kid. I love cooking and chilling out and camping–if I found a hot, young chick who wanted to get married and have babies, it would be very tempting to do so. I’d try to vet her and do some stuff to ensure I don’t get screwed if there’s a divorce, but we all have our price. I’ve been thinking a lot about how for marriage to work, it has to be a win for both people, and with online dating, it’s usually not a win for the guy–but once cold approach is feasible again, RPD would wife up a hot 25 year-old chick pretty quickly if she checked off the boxes.

    Because constant game is hard. That’s not to say getting married isn’t, but there’s a tradeoff, and at some point what we say to women is also true for men–do you really want to be in your 50’s or 60’s doing day game? Probably not.

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    1. I think I figured out what I mean… I’ve tried to show some of my own flaws… they’re definitely there… everyone has flaws… I’d distinguish between normal human flaws we all have and deep fundamental flaws… many of the game guys seem to be riven by the latter… sometimes those are the flaws that even traditional/conventional therapy can be useful for. It won’t help with masculine/feminine polarity and many other game topics, but it can be used to surface/help heal deep flaws.

      “Perfect” is ridiculous of course… but “functional” and “dysfunctional” are useful.

      I think even some socially calibrated guys can learn… to make the move, to escalate, etc. But maybe the need is not there, as you say…

      I like families and long term relationships but think marriages are too dangerous, in most cases. Maybe if the woman makes more money than you. Maybe with a pre-nup.

      Constant game is hard… the sex club thing, when it exists again, seems easier than the alternatives, to me, because it allows the man the variety he seeks but gives the woman a psychological frame. It combines some relationship aspects with some casual sex aspects. You just have to find/train the right girl. Girls, maybe. When it works… it is astonishing…

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    2. Like you and Magnum. I was married. Divorced at 37. Found game for exactly the same reasons. In terms of life stages I’m a little older and had a LOT of the feelings you described in the final 2 paragraphs in my mid 40’s. Truth is I got very very close to settling down twice, marrying, having more kids, ironically with 2 girls I was dating / fucking around the same time. My reasons for not doing it came down to something my divorce lawyer told me years ago. “Women marry men hoping they will change, men marry women hoping they won’t. Both parties end up disappointed. “ No matter how much I loved the girl as she was then, it was a cast iron certainty she would change and and extremely likely the changes would not be to my liking. So then it became a question of my desire for more children vs the downsides of settling down and in the end the latter won out. Charlie Munger (warren buffet partner) advices to always invert. Think hard about what you don’t want. Marrying again and having more kids are hugely personal choices. All I can say is the desire for both has waned the last few years and I’m happy with the decision I made. But I say this because I already have a kid. If I were childless my viewpoint would be the reverse.

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      1. And your last paragraph is right on point… I’ll be 50 next year. If things don’t open up reasonably soon my daygame days may well be over. I’m at peace with that. But I don’t believe the only other option is to bite the bullet and settle down. I’m comfortable with the idea of being a bachelor for the rest of life, maybe be the guy young chicks have a short term fling with to satisfy a curiosity about older men. There are worse ways to spend the next 10 years.

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  3. If I were gonna pick a game blogger to swap with, I’d pick Nash. The way he writes about his best experiences with women sound like the very heights of what game can bring into a man’s life. (Besides a family, which I imagine he will create in good time.)

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    1. > The way he writes about his best experiences with women sound like the very heights of what game can bring into a man’s life. (Besides a family, which I imagine he will create in good time.)

      Extremely nice thing to say. And I appreciate it.

      And for what it’s worth: The family thing scares me. That’s why I haven’t done it (I have had some eager women). But I am working to get some of things in place that could make me (more) comfortable(ish) with that kind of commitment… again, following Krauser, Janka, Lance Mason, and other “heroes” of mine.

      (I think I might do a quick blog post on that topic maybe… I have a great clip from The Deuce I want to quote. It’s a “cheerful dystopian” scenario… a set of tradeoffs that makes sense to me.)

      A lot of outsiders would see all this Game as hedonism, etc. But I am 100X the man I was in my mid-3os. If I was ever going to do any kind of “patriarchy” well, I’m closer now than I have ever been… and it’s directly as a result of what I have learned via Game. I am about the notches. And I am about way more than the notches.

      We’ll see. Thanks, Johnny.

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      1. Family scares everyone, but you do it and figure things out… how many billions of kids have been born in the last however many thousands of years… most of them into much worse circumstances than in modern developed countries today…

        Do the post on The Deuce. I’ll read it.

        I mostly see the game as hedonism… but to do hedonism well, a guy has to develop his non-hedonic qualities too, most of the time. Exceptions would be super physically hot guys, those sorts of people…

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  4. I read this post, and as a guy who does write about game, I applied the analysis to myself: I think I can safely put myself in the “screw lose” category. I know I am fucked up, here/there. And it stands to reason I am fucked up much more than I know (almost everyone is). I can accept that.

    I piss a lot of people off, but I have a lot of long-term relationships. There is a balance there.

    As for “who would you trade places with” and “how fucked up is THAT guy!” – I think the more you see, the LESS likely you’ll want to be that person. Guys who blog with any detail show more… and upset the fantasy pretty easily.

    Some of the most “comfortable” accounts lack any personal details at all (there are ONLY judgment/analysis, never personal stories). They read like “fluff” to me… I don’t bother. TherRedQuest has been such a brilliant blog as TRQ has been willing to be personal.

    The more a writer shows, the less “fantasy” remains, and that will turn away other men as the reader can’t project what he wants onto that writer any more. “Never meet your heroes,” or something like that.

    It’s true for girls too. The more we know… the harder it is to float along together. I really admire Pat Stedman for trying to carve out some of that space were you DO see the dirty laundry, and lean into that too.

    Would I trade places? With anyone? No. I wouldn’t. Not because I think I’m all that great, but “grass is greener” doesn’t appeal at all to me anymore. I want so much, but I’m “not dissatisfied” with where I am at. And I am proud of the path I’m on.

    But who is close??

    I think the comments about Krauser above are pretty on, but I admire the hell out of that man. He is a great example of showing more/more, and there being very little to “falsely imagine.” He has his flaws, but I like him more, the more I see (which includes the dirty laundry, and also, me growing up, growing into ideas he understood long before I did). I have read so much of him, and I think (particularly in his long format stuff), he shows incredible wisdom, way beyond technicals. In his face/face talks (which would be harder to fake), he is even cleaner, looks really good live. His Player’s Path talk… he is growing. And he is real. I don’t want to be him, but I remain inspired by him, and I’d bet money on his future. Krauser is going to be fine.

    Maybe Janka. Again, if I got closer, I’d see the dirty laundry, I suspect. But I respect his game, and his turn to family, very much. Most of all, he has a CERTAINTY (right/wrong) that I admire. I think he is real.

    RSD Tyler (aka Owen)… he is a piece of work. And we have seen so much of his mind/actions over the last 15 years. And yet, I never get the feeling he is hiding or acting. I don’t know that I want his life… but I really respect him. He looks good in his own skin. An extremely smart, well-developed man. I admire him. An incredible example.

    That is where all this lands of me. I wouldn’t “swap” with any one, any more than I’d want to wear another man’s pants (they’d never fit right). But it’s about who I admire.

    As for SCOREBOARD – the QUOTE OF THE WEEK for me has been Thomas Sowell saying, “There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.” I think that is how I can look at Krauser/Janka/Tyler and appreciate (very much) their choices in “tradeoffs.” That includes some of the men in this conversation here on this blog, and other that we know that will read it, as well.

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    1. I’ve tried to show some of my own flaws… they’re definitely there… everyone has flaws… I’d distinguish between normal human flaws we all have and deep fundamental flaws… many of the game guys seem to be riven by the latter… sometimes those are the flaws that even traditional/conventional therapy can be useful for. It won’t help with masculine/feminine polarity and many other game topics, but it can be used to surface/help heal deep flaws.

      I’ve suggested before that we could use a “masculine therapy” movement, since, from what I can tell, the existing psychologist/psychology system is extremely feminist, blue pill and… I want to reach for that word… I know I shouldn’t… “cucked…” I seem to be reaching for that word a bit lately. It’s humorous, I think, or the reaction to it is humorous. I like the book King Warrior Magician Lover because it addresses masculine therapy https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/08/26/you-are-not-a-special-and-unique-sunflower-jung-and-game/ like almost nothing else I know of does. It seems like masculine-focused therapy, if it exists at all, is focused on trying to neuter men and turn them into chicks…

      As far as I can tell… your flaws seem to be of the “normal human” variety, as opposed to the “deeply damaged” variety.

      Some young hot chicks are attracted to dysfunction… so that underlying frame can work… sort of.

      Krauser seems like he doesn’t get along with people much at all, and doesn’t have close friendships… could be wrong on that… he seems fueled by hate rather than the desire to build. People do not hate large groups based on demographics like he does, to the extent he does, without something being seriously wrong with them.

      In my own case… I love chicks and f**king… but there are other aspects to my life as well…

      There may also be a question of underlying framing… the guys who do well who I admire seem to have a “win-win” frame: they are creating opportunities for chicks to get what they want, while we get what we want. The guys who have a “taking value” underlying frame… I think there is something wrong with them. And look, I’m not saying I have never done a value take: I have and I probably will again. But I don’t want to be a default frame. I’m not a hippie who believes in free love and thinks that there’s another intelligent way to structure contemporary economic relations apart from capitalism… I know it’s important to protect your value and to produce value… but I want to create “wins” wherever possible and whenever possible. People want, fundamentally, to be around others who build value… “value” can mean a lot of things here. Takers can prosper in the short term but they will fail in the long term.

      That’s true of chicks too… smart chicks work to improve their value… value doesn’t mean economic production, it can mean “making dinner” and “seeing to the social arrangements” (traditional chick values). Hot chicks who are mostly takers can get f**ked plenty… but they don’t get much in the way of relationships. Chicks, particularly young hot ones, can learn a dangerous lesson at an early age, that just being hot is enough. That can kinda work in high school/college, when most relationships are teething relationships. A woman who has absorbed that lesson from age 14 to 21 may find it hard to unlearn… leading to some of the pathologies we see…

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      1. > Krauser seems like he doesn’t get along with people much at all, and doesn’t have close friendships… could be wrong on that… he seems fueled by hate rather than the desire to build. People do not hate large groups based on demographics like he does, to the extent he does, without something being seriously wrong with them.

        Hmmm… I have never heard him mention a GF. He is unique in that way… remarkably successful, but no mention of anything like a LTR than I know of. That is “unusual.”

        But, he DOES get “recurring revenue.” Girls want to see him again. So… I don’t think he comes off as “toxic.” And one of my favorite stories about him is 6+ dates with some virgin he never closed, and he knew he wouldn’t, he just enjoyed her. And he says so (I needed that story, it helped me). He has stories like that. I think he hides his softer stuff… it doesn’t it fits his rocker/fighter image, but it’s there.

        Also… his WINGS, that guy really loves having a wing. He loves it. He is very human there.

        As for his “politics:” I think race/etc is heuristic for him. I think he is quick/comfortable to judge, but then makes exceptions in person. He has talked a lot of shit about “brown guys,” but has relationships that defy stereotypes.

        I can see the “fueled by hate” argument, but that isn’t how I read him.

        He is increasingly Buddhist. Daygame Infinite was remarkably Buddhist. And I know a couple of fascist Buddhists, but I see that (increasingly) tranquil side of him.

        He is also the BEST EXAMPLE I HAVE of a “hardass” that incorporates “hippie shit” in incredibly acceptable ways. His “Introduction to Daygame” talk he just posted (excellent) is full of comments about “energy.” And nobody blinks when Krauser talks about energy. Whereas when Pat Stedman (such a solid guy, BTW) talks about it, everyone flexes. I did a thread where Krauser was using the word “power,” but he is increasingly just talking about “energy” and it’s very instructive… to see “Mr Lockerroom” show the value in “avocado-talk” of energy, etc… also helps me see the world more clearly. He isn’t so easy to pin down.

        I am obviously “Team Krauser,” but not randomly/blindly so. I can say why. And he never stops impressing me. I highly recommend his Player’s Path talk.

        Is he just “hate?” He has been a builder, too. His blog. Almost 10 books. His YouTube stuff (extensive). All of that is creation. It’s saying “yes” to something. His creations have (mostly) been about saying “yes” to something.

        He is just a hardass. A cold masculinity. And that has been good for me… he has both toughened me up, and inspired me.

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  5. The Red Quest is the most sane among us; the most diplomatic; and the most fraternal. We should all take the Red Quest Pill.

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    1. I dunno about sanity… a lot of people would consider my interest in sex clubs to be a mark of insanity… it could also be that I have just figured something out and am a few years ahead of the culture as a whole.

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  6. Very interesting discussion. I see your essay as a reality check: not all that glitters is gold, and many of the men you mention have shone brightly for years.

    I think we need to draw a line between business/life here. The moment your primary income depends on your “red pill teachings” is the moment you lose credibility to “effective adult guys”.

    >I don’t think I know any adult guy in real life, who is put together effectively and doesn’t have a real job of some kind.

    I’d suggest this is what you feel is off. Men who make a living primarily out of the red pill feel off because most of the red pill happens online and stays online. They don’t feel put together because they are not in the real world, and our bullshit detectors are acute. Spend too much time here and you’ll forget the outside world is actually not that bad most of the time. Girls are nice. People are friendly, and your city is full of opportunities. Business opportunities, relationship opportunities, sports, friends, etc. I don’t mean to offend any of your readers or commenters: many guys could use their help in life and they will take it more seriously if they put some cash upfront. There’s nothing wrong with that. Mentorship works.

    >women will also show you who they are, usually pretty early, and MOST GUYS IGNORE THE SHOW. Then… they bitch when the woman acts the way she has shown him she will act… you already knew, or should have known, who she is, but you choose to ignore that (the p***y is good) and then come to the Internet to cry

    Haha so true. Women’s displays are evident for those who know and want to read them.

    One key distinction between “off men” and “genuine” that both you and Nash hint at is long-term relationships. With all Krauser has inspired, entertained, and yes, taught me, I always felt it was strange to not show long-term relationships. When you know so much about someone’s thoughts through their books, you feel entitled to know more. Same with Roosh, which I haven’t read in a while. Are you telling me that after 10+ years grinding it and having sex left and right with dozens of women you couldn’t make a couple you particularly enjoyed stay around for a few years? That is “the next level” in my eyes, probably the most important part of Game. Is it because they feel somewhat off to girls too? Is it because they didn’t stay anonymous? I’ve known a couple more players who were brilliant at pick up but sad to watch in long-term relationships, or unable to have them.

    This can also be applied to friendships with other men. How many of you have 10+, 20+ years male, solid friendships? I believe that is an indicator too on how not messed up you are. Actually messed up men run out of friends quickly or have garbage as friends. Paradoxically, men with inflexible principles and unwavering standards also run out of friends quickly.

    > If the girl finds you messed up enough, and not in an attractive dark broody way, she is not going to f**k you… she is going to fade away. She doesn’t want to be in your life, like you don’t want to be in the lives of people with bad/weak character.

    I agree NOBODY worth a dime will want to be in the lives of people with weak character (most girls will still f*** you if your Game is shiny enough, despite all your character flaws).

    >But it’s never going to be accepted–or we’re at least a long way from a time when it will–so you have to be enough of a rebel to deal with that and not care. And that’s hard.

    Your society and culture will not let you be a playboy. There are ways to circumnavigate this.

    One more thing on this lengthy comment: as a solid Man I think you are, it would be a warning sign if you “wanted to be that person” when reading about anyone. We can still learn from them, but as Nash says:

    >I wouldn’t “swap” with any one, any more than I’d want to wear another man’s pants (they’d never fit right). But it’s about who I admire.

    Like

    1. > I’d suggest this is what you feel is off. Men who make a living primarily out of the red pill feel off because most of the red pill happens online and stays online.

      I think TRQ is talking about Players as much as RedPillers, but… I absolutely agree with you.

      The Red Pill doesn’t require any success at all in real life for membership… and that’s why it fosters so much adamantly “out there” religiosity (guys with no points in life at all, yammering about “the truth”). Game REQUIRES that you can put up some numbers, so to a degree… it has been a cleaner space for me to learn, grounded in compliance and performance.

      > Spend too much time here and you’ll forget the outside world is actually not that bad most of the time. Girls are nice. People are friendly, and your city is full of opportunities. Business opportunities, relationship opportunities, sports, friends, etc.

      Agree.

      > having sex left and right with dozens of women you couldn’t make a couple you particularly enjoyed stay around for a few years? That is “the next level” in my eyes, probably the most important part of Game.

      Here too, yes. TRQ has had a lot of LTRs. Our man Magnum is very solid here too. TDdaygame (another extremely healthy man, great game, but prefers LTRs). I like notches and studying across a range of women… but “recurring revenue” is a great metric for a man “game.” Girls that keep coming back.

      Particularly guys that can get dates/lays, but never any repeat business… there is something going on there. Inner game, if not more.

      Like

    2. One problem is that the amount of money to be made on books/coaching seems small relative to the amount of potential lost income from real jobs. The minute you become a “real pickup coach” and post your videos/proof/etc., you are probably cutting yourself off from most real mainstream jobs in the future. So functional guys don’t want to go this way. Who does… well, what we see. Who we see.

      >>Haha so true. Women’s displays are evident for those who know and want to read them.

      I was awful at reading these things when I was younger, which is why I emphasize them now. Older relatives would emphasize the need to evaluate character… and I would ignore them, because she has a nice body / great tits / pussy too bomb (p2b), only to discovery that yes character does matter.

      I’m not opposed to fucking hot chicks with serious character flaws… lord knows I’ve done enough of that… but I also keep my expectations where they should be, and I keep the girls who have serious character flaws at arm’s length (or more). If she shows me bad character, she goes into the “very casual sex” box. If her character is really bad, I stay away… I don’t seem to meet / get with that many really bad character girls…

      Like

  7. >I have seen some of the RSD videos, and none or almost none of them make me think, “This guy is admirable and I’d want to hang out with him.” Some of them probably have game… almost none of them seem like guys I admire.

    I had the same reaction to RSD. Does this mean they’re “wrong”? I don’t think so. It just means their way of living and thinking doesn’t resonate with everyone. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this manifested in the types of girls they attract. As you pointed it, it also doesn’t preclude us from learning something by watching them.

    Another interesting point is that we’re only considering people who explicitly discuss game and sexual dynamics. I bet there are plenty of people who know this, whether they learned it early on from their parents or just felt it in their guts. They aren’t the ones writing and analyzing in this space, because they don’t need to. They came across this material internally and don’t need to work through the dissonance. Writers who do, I think, are also battling preconceived notions and are sifting through their experiences to put together a coherent argument to support their ideas on game, pickup, psychology and polarity.

    Perhaps the dissonance is necessary for someone to write on these subjects.

    Like

    1. They can be right on technical details/tactics but still have something “wrong” with them, and the thing that’s wrong will hold them back from longer-term development and achieving higher-level goals, and from developing better and deeper relationships. That might be a better way of putting it. There’s things to be learned from RSD… especially for people at the opening levels of game…

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Just wanted to write a few things.

    First, since you like reading and are into game, probably you should check out the blog (if you haven’t already) of an anonymous poster called yareally who was very active some time back on the heartiste blog. You will like the way he used to write is what I feel. The way he was so technical and detail oriented about how game works is what hooked me intellectually about the minutiae that most guys who sell courses nowadays ignore and are crucial to learn game that makes one look natural.
    Yareally never wrote a blog per se, because he did’t bother to maintain it but left his writings in reply to topics other discussed in the comment sections of the few blogs.

    But as you know , anon guys never care that much to leave their huge body of work abandoned and he left after Rollo decided to delete his comments since he started disagreeing with Rollo and yareally started to feel that maybe he can be doxxed as well. Particularly his idea on how to maintain open LTR can give you more ideas and exactly while the discussion was on the topic of how a guy should marry/ have open LTR etc back in december 2016 was when he disappeared back into the wild.

    Luckily a guy collected his writings in a website scrapping it but recently that website went offline as well. Thanks to wayback machine it is still accessible on TWM.

    https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://yareallyarchive.com/

    It might be clumsy to wade through it as it not arranged topic-wise etc, but it is totally worth the effort if you haven’t heard of it previously.

    Funny thing is that you talking of internal congruence is what made me remember of the exact thing yareally would discuss that made him look the most legit guy i have ever seen and read write on game.

    Recently, I found your writings and you are my favorite now who is still actively writing. Like all anon guys, it will be some time before you disappear as well as you have previously mentioned :)

    Secondly, about location independent income. I don’t make awesome money but I have already benefited from it as i am increasingly seeing success trying to make money from 3 differenct sources including my job.I found Wallstreetplayboys less than a year ago. I agree every one lies when it comes to helping one make money and internet is full of scamsters but the anonymous blog ( can you start seeing the link with all this anon thing?) Wallstreetplayboys is a legit one(whom you called as nonsense in one of the comments linked in the above article). While I agree completely what you wrote in the post on location independent article ,in this world full of oppurtunities , there are a only a few avenues like affiliate marketing(tied to performance), dropshipping, trading financial instruments where a guy with a will to slog and good IQ can figure out to make extra money. And afterwhile, go fulltime all the while going solo with a few helping hands. Surely, not everyone will do it . It has the same odds of being a good gamer from a loser w.r.t gaming. How many last the first 100 approaches ? Last enought to see their lifestyle completely turn around so much that people can’t figure who the guy was a few years back. More than 3 standard deviation and perhaps closer to 5 SD.

    I have perhaps read most of the WSP blog posts so i can tell you that more than the exact ideas and strategy they give out(almost all can be implemented with some variation and imaginative thinking), it is about making young guys in their 20s realize(their audience) to see a bigger picture to bounce ideas into their head and to try things out. I failed trying so many things and finally figured out what worked favourably suited to personal circumstances. It is in shedding new light where WSP shine brilliantly. A favorite example (https://wallstreetplayboys.com/watch-the-company-man-give-away-his-life/) or another blog post(https://wallstreetplayboys.com/get-rid-of-jealousy-hatred-and-stress-by-thinking-in-multiple-dimensions/) where WSP also tell the same thing you mention here that being jealous is useless when we start to compare our lives with others but instead see each person with everything they possess and do we agree to trade places with them.

    Maybe i was the right audience who was searching for something and found the Wallstreetblogs that helped me reach my goals earlier. I have read your posts where you also agree that the audience for this blog is not everyone. Just a few guys who can be helped and be fasttracked. It is exact the same premise with Yareally i mentioned earlier as well. Again, can you see the connect here? :)

    Love your blog posts especially posts like this or where you go on rambling just to put some ideas on words. Hoping that i will comment more since I made my first comment :) . Since I started very late in my life to get serious about my life(worked on game first and now focusing on money based on yareally’s advice though i consider myself as an advanced beginner when it comes to game) , managing an active social life(thanks to effort put into learning game – seeing the rewards now) with friends and family, exercising and working on 3 different income streams(including a regular job) and writing my own blog (like you mention)or commenting on blogs and monitoring it – is too much of a work to pull of efficiently as the money making work is taking far time and effort these days before it achieves a steady state that will give me freedom . Something like achieving the escape velocity. But I see it happening really soon.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. >yareally

      He has some impressive stuff but damn the wayback machine is a hard way to read it. There’s so little context.

      Reminds of Yohami… who also has never/rarely had a blog, but his comments on Nash’s blog Daysofgame.com are often excellent. How much good/useful material is lost because it’s unorganized or disorganized.

      Someone put together the book of pook and bonecrackr for posterity https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/05/02/book-of-pook/ which is nice. They’re both still valuable today.

      Rollo has some good points but also a lot of limits https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2020/02/20/rollo-tomassi-rational-male-post/. He’s trying to put together an echo chamber, something I try to avoid. But I doubt I’ll have anything like his longevity. I thought I would write less during the pandemic (no real game going on… plus other life goals), but I keep seeing stuff that gives me ideas.

      >> Funny thing is that you talking of internal congruence is what made me remember of the exact thing yareally would discuss that made him look the most legit guy i have ever seen and read write on game.

      If you have enough world/life experience… you realize that congruence is key… and many of the practices pickup guys and red pill guys describe are aimed at creating it. For many guys it’s necessary to practice the skills, which feel incongruent for a long time, but when they eventually gel into congruence, that’s a great feeling.

      Location-independent income is possible, just hard/unlikely… if you have done it, great. I have heard that WSP changed proprietors at some point and the older material is better than the newer.

      One key aspect of the modern market is building skills and changing jobs. If you don’t change jobs regularly you likely won’t unlock your income potential.

      >>Love your blog posts especially posts like this or where you go on rambling just to put some ideas on words

      Well, the “basics” of game are well covered by Neil Strauss, Mystery, Krauser, and a few others… that “model” seems pretty complete to me… I have explained how I think about and execute non-monogamy in this blog and in the book https://theredquest.wordpress.com/free-book/… that seemed like the biggest missing piece in the pickup / game / development / red pill material I have read/seen, and now I have filled it (IMO).

      Once you have the basics down, and as you get to the higher levels (https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/10/17/what-do-i-mean-by-levels-of-game-seduction-discussion/), the questions and answers begin to change, I think. It also varies by age. I didn’t write about “game” for most of the time I have been doing it… I started on reddit but like ya really and Rollo I realized that I’d be blocked by others on the platform from discussing how sex clubs fit in, for the right guy.

      It is also an age thing. I think most 25 year old guys just want to f**k as much as possible. The older a guy is, the more the “what’s it all mean” questions mean, I think. Realistically, too, some doors will close with age, for guys as well as chicks. Choosing not to choose is a choice. So I’ve been speaking some to the guys who are facing these dilemmas, as well as the younger guys who will likely face them in their futures.

      Like

      1. Just remembered there is a compilation of work of Yareally in a book form that i had long back downloaded and forgotten about. You talking of compilation book made me remember it again. Uploaded it just today here below.

        https://www.docdroid.net/re6lcaZ/book-of-yareally-pdf

        ***

        agree with what you wrote on rollo. Many of his ideas are excellent but since he has become more famous( he was an anon previously) and a kind of cultish people are seen on the blog who make it look like an echo chamber, maybe it has changed him a bit as a person.

        ***

        Even now I struggle with the congruence part since I was too much of a nerd when i started. It is so hard changing persona to start with. And then even harder to keep switching day in and day out, depending on the environment because the game persona of being free and illogical can’t work in the logical oriented jobs. This is what I am grappling with now a days- Being able to context switch with ease.
        e.g. doing the logical work at office at the same time texting a girl during a short break at work.

        ***
        >>One key aspect of the modern market is building skills and changing jobs. If you don’t change jobs regularly you likely won’t unlock your income potential.

        wrt to job market, yes building skills is very necessary but i want to add that if we can focus on building an extra skill that makes us decoupled slightly more from market economy(e.g. any skill that we can do alone and make money independently of others) , it allows you a bit more freedom to navigate the world as we can take that skill anywhere with just a computer and internet connection.

        I used to play a lot of video games alone previously, but now I see that improving in real world skills that makes money(trading ) can be done similarly.

        The best case scenario is that the skill we learn makes us so much money in a small time horizon of 3-5 years that it allows us to forever live a comfortable life (say $100k/year – 4% of $2.5million) and then we can use free time to continue build new skills that helps us make more money(and then either taking a new job or starting own). The skills like building a brand on social media and selling a product, affiliate marketing are in that particular niche that uses the scale of internet to achieve the target in minimal time making it more probable due to vast audience that internet gives. Because our time is limited and we can’t forever keep on dedicating huge time to learning new skills(but ofcourse that’s what the present world demands). If we always spending all the time working in one way or other, we can’t enjoy the other aspects in life like experiences(living in multiple cities), girls(a year abroad) , family(one week vacations)etc in a more complete manner. I am being highly ambitious here, but i think it helps that there are other things to do outside the common life mainstream media projects and makes us think what normal life is.

        Yes, WSP proprietors might have changed as I have heard that too. But i see the content on WSP is more or less the same in their thought process, ideologies etc.

        ***

        I am still in my 20s, but totally get what you are saying. After achieving success to the extent i had planned, i realized to keep doing what i am doing will take even more work as i become older. Hence the present focus on making good money.

        I think the ideal case is as a guy gets older(in his 50s and 60s), he has enough money to enjoy the lifestyle(even if it discreet)as he desires. And use money as a substitute for looks, youth that goes away for the initial edge. Game and charisma will help till death but I see it being very useful one on one interaction but that initial edge something else should be there. Fame could be used instead of money but fame can backfire easily these days and hurt the reputation that was built. To use social status, people get jealous of a guy who is in his 60s-70s being with young girls and diss him which makes it difficult to use as the edge. Money seems to be an optimal tool for this.

        Having enough money is the best way to say fuck-off to people around us who have nothing to offer us and at the same time preach us as to how best to live a good life.

        I see Sivlio Bersculoni as a model for a good life someone has in their older age.
        https://web.archive.org/web/20141224164137/https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/alpha-male-cage-match/
        Can’t say it will happen, but i guess it is good to have high aims :)

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Re-hosted book https://theredquest.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/book-of-yareally.pdf

        I’m net positive on Rollo… but I see his weaknesses… if you come from a super defensive posture like the one he advocates, you’re probably never going to get long-term relationships, or relationships with higher-quality women. If you live in the Rollo world, you’re cutting off a large number of women, who won’t put up with the emotional distance and game-playing that comes from Rollo world.

        BUT… as stated in the post… he has some virtues too.

        With congruence… keep working on yourself… the congruence will come… work on yourself physically, psychologically, spiritually, intellectually … do in every day. Something you probably already know.

        In some ways… there is no end game… not if you want to keep growing until you die… the best experiences come from growth, even when growth is very painful. Many women don’t achieve at the level men need to because they want to become the woman of a top man, not get to the top themselves. Or they have a different ladder, which might be another way of putting it.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Agree that model has already been flashed out by Mystery, Tyler etc and you filled that last piece on clubs where there were hardly any contribution since 1) people should cross the initial stage 2) be the kind of person who is logical 3) have motivation to write a book 4) have time to do it.

        I was talking of the way you write that makes it readable. Ofcourse , I know most of the things you wrote in this post from a game point of view but to quote Cyril Connorry – “Literature is the art of writing something that will be read twice; journalism what will be grasped at once.” – what you write belongs to the first category.

        Your writing is smooth to read. Even for the second time or the third.

        Like

      4. By the time I began writing, sex clubs and non monogamy seemed like such a natural progression to me that I almost didn’t write about them… I’d internalized the rules/principles too much… but as I got queries, I kept writing, and eventually the posts turned into a book that takes everything I think I have learned and puts it in one place. IMO… this is a powerful advance on the basic game.

        >>Your writing is smooth to read. Even for the second time or the third

        Thanks much man. I work at it, although lots of posts still have typos and errors in them. I fix them when I find them.

        Like

  9. >Rollo

    The reason I wasn’t burned but was very open to the his ideas was that I never had the harsh childhood who had gotten burned by some girl. Instead I seemed to always in my world and with my favorite subjects(maths and almost everything else as i am more curious about the world than girls since childhood). But since I wasn’t never reaching the top I wanted in what I tried, I started to search for answers. And reading evo psych filled the biggest hole in my knowledge(even you mention in one of your posts) . So for me, I was saved that way and can take things bit more logically. Reading yareally helped( i owe him my life), because if not for him being so detailed and breaking down each and everything, I couldn’t have come where I am(still a long way to go though) since i was a very much socially isolated guy from girls and game point of view who had nobody to help me.

    So agree that Rollo has done a very fundamental contribution to the knowledge base. Especially his writing on desire dynamic, War brides. The problem comes that the guy should take his writing in the right way but sadly people who come her are the ones who are burned in some way and want to get back in some way or there is something fundamentally wrong with their life(same goes for women who are joining yoga, solo travelling, structured dance classes – ripe pickings for the guys in that environment there ;) )

    > yareally book

    Glad you rehosted them. May be you can recreate a post in future as well. It has so much wisdom that is so hard to get. Nobody helps like that to people who are beginners in real life in any subject.Some guy’s life can change if he can come across that book . Already your blog is doing that service so it will be a nice add-on.
    As a request from my side, I would really want you to read yareally as well because i think you are far advanced than most people that you require someone of your level who can make you learn new thing or give you another insight.

    >self-improvement

    I was an self-improvement junkie previously so this game has given me things work and milestones to reach I will never to done with . Will never be bored of my life again.

    I see a lot of myself in you in the future as well because you are the only person who talks of “kayfabe” from edge website which is too much of intellectual thing for guys who are in game. So I always feel most can’t relate to my experiences or maybe I can’t replicate from them significantly without variation. You are someone I am following closely these days since I think i can learn a lot from you as you are so close to my personality intellectually.

    >>non-monogamy

    Your writings made me change my opinion on non-monogamy and solidified my belief in accepting it especially about the clubs scene as to how it can work since I was bit hesitant to accept internally(i lean more on the conservative side). You have brought out the nuances that people normally fail to get why and how it can work. Really appreciate the effort you have put there in a logical and detailed manner.

    To see a more soft version that happens in a more public place(if assuming what you offer in the book is hard version), do check the youtube videos about the bachata sensual dance scene in Isreal if you haven’t(use the same key words in search). The whole dance club looks like a s*x party. Dances forms like sensual zouk/zouk, tarraxinha, sensual bachata is literally f***ing publicly but since in Isreal almost all girls are hot, the environment has a more hotter vibe to it. Russia comes close second. The story of how the partner dance scene has evolved from the likes of waltz to lindy hop to salsa to tango to the present sensual variations of dance is a sign of progressive acceptance and acknowledgement for more non-monogamy in the general public that is also illustrative of primal instincts taking as the civilization advances.

    Yareally discusses the way of making an LTR look open for both parties to start with but making it one-sided to a very large extent(not completely though) in the guy’s favor by following some rules as the relationship progresses as their is a glitch in the matrix that favours guys than girls.
    In your book, you discuss how it works when things are more open for both the parties. I think there is a case to move a more towards yareally approach as it can result in a bit less jealousy and less drama to deal with for the guy. Your book gives the perfect starting point if yareally approach can’t be managed because to pull off yareally’s strategy the guy should be very knoweledgeable of game as well. Your ideas can be implemented even by guys who are more ‘natural’ or haven’t invested significant time in learning game.

    Totally agree, clubs are very time efficient for the guys(who want the kill) in the present age unlike kings of previous age who could afford to pay everyone in the harem. Most guys can’t make so much money and every girl is so materialistic in this age of consumerism than ever in history that they will burn the guy very quickly if they manage to maintain a harem like setting by cash.

    At the same time for non-monogamy to work smoothly, the guys in the scene should be of equal calibre who bring as much value you bring(beautiful women first but also their outlook on life, attitude). But I see even to practice it, most guys won’t cut it because inequality is a fundamental nature of the world. No two people are equal. A sufficient amount of wealth can be a good benchmark for assuming equality but then you start seeing that guys – who are still working on being there best and developing everyday as a person and man- are even more rarer.

    The saving grace is that rich places bring the best of the people from everywhere so it is more easier than in the past to find people whom you can consider as equal.

    This is a pet peeve of mine about clubs per se if i can say so because I am sort of the person who won’t easily appreciate or approve another guy and will perhaps stick to my position even if it means giving up on having sex with a beautiful girl. Who knows ,as i get older, I may change as a person for good though.

    But for the guys who like the chase as much as the kill, the whole process from start to finish is still a pursuit that is thrilling and source of stimulation. Also once the civilization advances so much like we have now, people have too much time they don’t know what to do with them. So the search of novel never-ending stimulation. Some people find that pursuit in climbing mountains , some in collecting that next car model or the scaled model train set,and some in creating music.

    That stimulation mades us survive as a species to guard against threat or search for better food and shelter. But it is equally bad that we can’t ever switch it off once it serves its purpose. So everyone is trying to cope with it in their own way.

    I belong to the category who likes the chase as much – if not – more than the kill. For me, the process of getting into the heart and mind of someone so deeply that it makes such an impact in them in an epheremal sense is what drives me. An intangible thing that can’t be measured but its presence felt in the action of the other person. The final act of sex is just a complete surrender. Younger girls(18+ only -a clarification for those having paedo thoughts) fit in this picture because they represent innonence and the youthful inexperience that makes an even bigger impression in them( all the while they are in their best physical shape of their lives which helps as well). I am romantic that way I guess.

    So I think there is space in the world for all things to exist (people who like the stimulation and pleasure of having sex with a new person and those who take it much more than that )and that diversity has made us as human who have flourished so much.

    I think the above view is another way of looking at non-monogamy in a rational way.

    Like

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