What does “quality girl” mean?

Online, there is endless discussion of how to seek out and identify “quality” girls, whatever that means… “quality” in a girl is tricky, since most girls, like men, have some good and some bad points. A lot of guys who think they want “quality,” who say they want “quality,” really want to convert a hot sexually adventurous slut into a housewife (rarely works well, but give it a go if you like… please don’t come whining to the Internet if it doesn’t). If you go for girls who are -1 or -2 relative to you in sexual market value (SMV), you can probably get a girl who will invest heavily in you… if she’s not that hot, though, you won’t want her, and you won’t care about how she returns your texts promptly and does other “nice” girl things. A lot of guys “want” a girl who is hot, a sex fiend (for him and him alone), absurdly loyal (perhaps not demanding fidelity in return), mentally stable, has an even-keeled personality, and perhaps has other desirable traits too. Girls who combine all those qualities in a single slender body are not that common… and they tend to have a lot of suitors to choose from. Supply and demand, mate. A guy who wants all those things is the male equivalent of women who want a guy who is over six feet tall, makes a lot of $$$, has good social skills, prioritizes her and her attention needs, etc. etc. These guys too exist, but in small numbers, and they tend to have lots of options, which they often like to exercise, vigorously and horizontally.

Sometimes vertically, too, for the sake of variety.

A lot of girls aren’t honest about what they really want… superficially they say they want a “relationship” (with a top guy, which is unstated), but in reality their behaviors indicate they want to get f**ked a lot (by a hot guy, or when they’re horny). “I got drunk and it just ‘happened'” is not the statement of a girl who really wants a relationship. Thing is… a lot of guys aren’t honest either. A lot of guys aren’t truly working to improve themselves, and their results are consistent with that. I tweeted a while ago, “most guys don’t really care that much about getting laid.” If they do care about getting laid, they’ll quit video games, prioritize the gym, eat no sugar, and do the other things common to guys who get laid, as opposed to guys who don’t, or guys who say they want to but don’t align their behavior with that stated want.

Personally, for the last ~decade, I’ve found “quality” to mean “hot, and wants to go to sex clubs with me.” I’ve de-prioritized monogamy, fidelity, and sometimes basic sanity. This may not be a good set of priorities or your set of priorities. If you don’t have priorities or, more likely, you are lying to yourself about your priorities, you will be inconsistent or incoherent, and so will your results. You’re sabotaging yourself. I don’t complain about hot sluts behaving like hot sluts, because I know what I’m getting into when I seek hot girls who are super eager to f**k. I’m not getting loyal housewives.

Strangely, given this story’s focus, I have gotten a few questions along the lines of a recent one from a guy who says, “The bigger question for me is finding someone to marry where the odds are low that they will cheat on me or we get divorced.”

I have cited Real World Divorce as a reason not to marry… if a guy wants to have kids with a woman, have the kids without the marriage, in my view. But I will take a shot at answering… I have talked about pretty monogamous girls, “My friend Anna, who seems pretty monogamous,” or “Katie,” neither of whom appear to fit the Red Pill stereotype, where guys who have been hurt or who are inept write long sagas of most chicks being “delusional cock-carousel riders…” right… the linked stories about “Anna” and “Katie” are good background to this discussion, so read them first. You’ll also see that I have a bit of a disagreement with Red Pill Dad about the frequency of sexually adventurous versus conservative monogamous girls, so if you want his view you can find it there.

The mostly monogamous chicks who want families are out there IME, but they are usually pretty monogamous and either not on dating apps or minimally on dating apps. They’re probably dating within their social circle, or from family referrals, or from school/work, and they are rarely single or single for very long. To be honest I’m not 100% sure how to find these women. Few of them exist over the age of 25 or 28, because by the time they get to 28 they have identified an acceptable guy and either already had kids with him, or they are planning to have kids with them. These kinds of girls are almost always looking to have a good and stable family. One thing to do is ask them, outright, “Do you want to have a family?” That kind of thing. If you are online look for, “Serious inquiries only.” “Family-oriented is vital to me. If you are seeking casual, I am not for you.” That will screen the party, sexually adventurous girls to an extent. Obviously some girls will lie to you, or be deluding themselves (the best way to lie is to convince yourself of the lie first… psychotherapy is partially about confronting the truth, which many if not most people cannot do on their own). You’re probably more likely to find girls like these at church than at bars. You will be more likely to find them volunteering than at protests.

But I’m not an expert here… probably the best thing to do is observe the girl closely. Does she have a lot of “guy friends?” Red flag. Does she go out of her way to show you she’s loyal? Or is she going out to bars “with the girls?” Girls who are serious about monogamy are serious about showing their man that they’re not putting themselves in compromising, sexually ambiguous situations. Does she like hiking, or does she like being in bars and parties? Is she on her phone all the time? How much time does she spend with her family? Does she like to drink a lot? Girls who drink often drink because they can do things that “don’t count, because I was drunk, lol.” Does she love male attention and spend time cultivating it? Does she spend a lot of time on social media? Is she obsessed with wealth and material possessions, like many people with empty souls and no purpose?

The “perfect” woman doesn’t exist (neither does the perfect man), so maybe she has one or two bad signs but not all of them. Girls who are serious about having a family will go out of their way to show you their fidelity. They’re not going to bars or parties without you. You’ll appear in their social media as soon as you make your relationship “official” (girls who always want to appear single on social media are a really bad sign).

Most people can’t be fully judged in a day or week or even month… it takes a year or longer to get beneath the social veneer. Watch closely. Be direct with her. Lots of people are disconnected and in pain. “I see you’re on social media a lot. We’ve made on our relationship official. Why am I never appearing in your pictures?” If she doesn’t have a good answer and doesn’t correct her behavior quickly, respond appropriately. “I see you’re going to a lot of parties or bars without me. Women usually do that to meet new men.”

Make statements, don’t make demands. If you are demanding change you will not get it and will provoke backlash: “I want to you stop partying or we are going to break up” should never be said. If you say, however, “Women usually go to bars and parties to hook up,” then that should be met with behavior change, and, if it isn’t, don’t make the threat. Just break up and tell her, “We want different things.” If you have to threaten, or deliver ultimatums, you have already lost. Give up, try again.

Another common example, if she has a suspicious number of  close male “friends,” the losers, simps, and betas of the world say, “You need to stop being friends with Jim.” You can instead observe, “You and Jim have a lot of erotic energy together.” If she has erotically charged opposite-sex friendships, she is not serious about a relationship… which is fine, if you aren’t either. It’s not fine if you want a long-term relationship. For most people, change, if it comes at all, comes slowly, over time. Many guys, maybe most, will ignore uncomfortable aspects of a girl if she’s f**king him. Don’t ignore those things. State the elephant in the living room.

If you are stating something about reality, an uncomfortable reality that most of us don’t want to confront, you may see her internalize reality, instead of the lie. If she doesn’t rapidly correct her behavior, she’s not serious and it’s time to withdraw attention. Break up sooner rather than later. “I like you, but I don’t think you’re serious about this relationship or having a family. I’m looking for someone who wants the same things I do. Good luck with your future endeavors.” Some chicks have been culturally conditioned to default to game playing, and going super direct with them will search, sort, and filter for the ones who are serious. In my life I have tended to do the opposite, and filtered FOR the sexually adventurous girls. It is possible to inverse this filter. Some girls, particularly younger ones, also love the ups and downs of drama. They don’t want serious relationships… which is, again, fine, unless you want one.

The downside to this method is that you’ll cut it off with girls you might want to keep sexually available… many guys will not leave sexually available chicks. If you’re serious about a family, though, you want to get rid of girls who are sexually available but don’t truly want a family (as opposed to claiming they do) and an authentic long-term relationship (many chicks who say they want this are in reality ambivalent about it). Many guys, and girls, lie to themselves about their partners’ desires because of sunk costs, good sex, comfort, etc. If you are clear-eyed about having a family, you’ll cut the women who are good lays but who don’t present the behaviors of a wife and mother. As with managing people on the job, however, it’s important to set clear expectations and note deviation from expectations. If your customer-service person is not doing well with clients, you might say, “Read How To Win Friends and Influence People. Here are three things to work on with client interactions.” The customer-service person may not know what they’re doing. If they make progress, however, with the three things, then they’re open to learning.

“We are officially dating, but I am absent in your social media” is a challenge to the girl. If she corrects, then she may not know any better (her friends don’t post men to their social media either, because they are pathologically obsessed with keeping their options open, like most modern people, particularly modern young people). If she is going to bars or parties without you, and you say something, and she stops doing that, then, again, she might not know better. If her reply is, “You don’t control me” or “you’re not the boss of me” or “I am a feminist and f**k you,” well then you know something about her. Many guys getting good pu**y want to ignore the problems and keep getting the pu**y and tell themselves things are okay, when they’re not. Most of the “Red Pill” stories about “bad” women are really about guys who see who a woman really is, and ignore it, then whine to the Internet because they saw who the girl really is and chose to ignore that (cause they’re having hot sex and when you’re getting it good & regular it’s tempting to suppress the obvious… I have made this mistake, I will add). Or the guy is putting himself in a weak position and then is surprised when he loses.

It’s true that you don’t want to be a domineering tyrant controlling the girl… but it’s also true that if the girl isn’t going to engage behaviors that are suitable for a long-term partner, she isn’t going to make a good long-term partner, and you should find someone who is, if that is what you really want. You should also be willing to compromise… the hottest girls are often not going to be the best partners for you. The examples above are not exhaustive… they are just common issues that come to mind.

In my own life, I have found many 6ses to be very “high quality” in the sense that they are very into me, they reply to texts or calls rapidly, and they are often very available to me. I have found the opposite of many 8s. Why? I am the same guy. The 8s have a ton of choices and men are constantly chasing them. I am probably at their SMV level or maybe slightly below it… for a 6, I’m a reach. For an 8, I’m at best an equal, and maybe half a step or step down. Go down an SMV point or two and you’ll often find the “quality” that some men claim to be looking for. You should also model good behavior. Do you want a woman who is thin? Invite her to the gym. Make food with her (zero sugar of course). If you model and encourage good behaviors you will often get them in return. If you do the opposite, you will get the opposite. “Quality” often creates its own quality. If you cannot get “quality,” look in the mirror, because the problem is often looking back at you.

Addendum: just after I wrote the above, I found an NY Magazine sex diary, “The Chef Who Thinks She’s Being Ghosted by a Paramedic” (no link cause I don’t want to give them more search engine traffic) where the woman writes, “I say I want a relationship, but deep down, I know I’m way too emotionally unavailable.” That people say one thing but secretly want, and do, another isn’t news, yet this example is useful because it also shows the pervasive narcissism at work in modern society and culture. This woman is all about what she wants, and is not at all about what anyone else wants. Her whole life is “me, me, me,” and “I, I, I.”

A lot of women, especially single women, are like this: they think the relationship is about them, when a real relationship is about the other person and the thing created by the interaction of two people. A woman who fails to realize this is not looking for a relationship: she’s looking for a handout, or a handbag. A handbag who talks, and a handbag that will be discarded when the next season’s look comes out.

Experienced men learn to put these women in the “casual sex” bucket. The woman described also says, “I guess it would be nice to have a partner.” That’s what someone who doesn’t want a partner says. Someone who wants a partner is ready to make their partner the focus of their life (and who expects the same in return… it’s about reciprocity). It’s about improving yourself and finding the right person. “I guess it would be nice” is said by someone who isn’t serious. 

With encouraging the girl to live her best life, I try to get her to do whatever I’m doing. So if I’m cooking, I invite her to cook (and learn how if she doesn’t know). If I’m going to the gym, I’m inviting her to the gym. If I’m reading a book I like, I give it to her after. Plenty of chicks  want to get out of the boring instagram/tv/tedium lifestyle but can’t get themselves to do it on their own. A nudge from a guy in the right direction will make them feel better over time. If she doesn’t want to go in the right direction, we might have a little fun together, but she’s going to have a small place in my life. Some girls, it takes a while for them to understand why a guy will take them up for fun, but nothing more. Some girls never learn. 

"Quality" girls are not only about being hot

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

10 thoughts on “What does “quality girl” mean?”

  1. “You should also model good behavior. Do you want a woman who is thin? Invite her to the gym. Make food with her (zero sugar of course).”

    So many guys don’t get this. They’ll sit around decrying, “I can’t find a woman who has [insert quality they’re looking for].” Not realising women are pretty agreeable/like to go with the flow, so it doesn’t take much effort to help mould a girl into what you’re looking for. As you say, it doesn’t take much at all – bring her into your life, invite her to come along when you go to the gym, and boom – she’s on board.

    I’ve especially found this to be true when it comes to self-improvement – most girls are *dying* to learn Red Pill skills like having a mission, stoicism/resilience, becoming a better version of yourself, improving your looks (especially this one!) All it takes is a little gentle encouragement.

    You call it “modelling behaviour”, I refer to it as “mentoring” girls (because I usually do in a very overt, direct and verbal way – literally telling them the qualities I’m seeking in my sexual/romantic partners and giving them advice on how to improve themselves). I like your idea of modelling the behaviour too, particularly if you’re a bit more of a “hands-off” guy who doesn’t have the time – or the inclination – to overtly mentor girls. Just model the behaviour you’re looking for, give her little nuggets of wisdom every now and then, and you’re good to go.

    Good stuff.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Whether you call it modeling or mentoring or something else, I feel like I very rarely see this idea mentioned… yet it’s important… people can change, and will change in response to the right stimulus. A girl who is good in some ways but maybe has some aspects you don’t like, might pick up new hobbies/habits. I mentioned this in some other posts but I like, for example, reading with girls… if there’s a book I like or just finished or find interesting, I’ll give it to the girl and talk to her about it. A lot of girls recognize that smartphones and social media are retarded but somehow lack the direction to do something different. If I give a little direction she may reprioritize or change.

      Plus… then she’ll have something to talk about on social media, amid all of her bikini pics…

      One thing I’ve been thinking about here and there, is that most guys online don’t really get to the later/deeper stages of game or women or life. The deeper levels are rarely accessed or discussed. https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/10/17/what-do-i-mean-by-levels-of-game-seduction-discussion. You can tell something about a guy who gets there… when relatively few do, or seem to. Guys who f**k a lot of chicks often come to empathize with chicks, who have a bunch of problems (often self-imposed) of their own, which guys who don’t get laid enough don’t or can’t perceive. I like Nash’s blog for example because he has storis about the later levels, when most guys fall off early on.

      If you’ve laid her out a few times… you’ve got the status to encourage *some* changes… https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/02/20/status-coolness-first-then-evangelize-for-whatever-the-thing-is/
      … girls who are truly f**ked up probably can’t change, but a girl who has some good qualities is often yearning to improve, as you point out… she will show you who she is over time. Offer her books and she remains on social media for 5 hours a day? Tells you something. Invite her to the gym and she keeps saying no? Tells you something. Seems interested in cooking with you but always falls off? Tells you something. Goes out drinking a lot? Tells you something (including that she’s not going to be faithful and that she’s going to destroy her body… could also be telling you her psychology is bad).

      IMO… set up good models for her… if she rejects good models… she’s shown you the kind of girl she is. You picked up that comment, which was a bit of a throwaway… some of the similar comments in past posts have mostly been ignored by most readers, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen this basic idea mentioned in forums.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yes, training a girl up should start from the first date, and much of that happens through subconsciously expressed expectations. Later more through feedback that is subtle as it can be, and overt as it needs to be. Sometimes extremely overt; more than most men would do.

        Women enjoy being trained up. And as you say, you can’t create a silk purse from a sows ear. Every girl can be trained, but what they can become depends mostly on their genetics, and somewhat on their upbringing.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. > usually do in a very overt, direct and verbal way – literally telling them the qualities I’m seeking
      — Andy

      I like this ^.

      I don’t really give “advice,” but this is basically what I do.

      > Make statements, not demands
      — TRQ

      I love that line from TRQ in this post. I think that is how to do it.

      Like Andy, I’ll be explicit, I’ll say, “I like this/that in a woman.” That same part of a woman that can be insecure will take this like instruction. If women are empathetic, and you announce a strong preference, she’ll try it on.

      That, plus positive reinforcement: “You did XYZ and I loved it. Keep doing that, it’s very feminine.”

      I’m not into trying to overtly control (I think that usually insecurity, and the girls know it too). I don’t like to beat up on girls either (I’ll just leave). But I can “shape behavior.”

      Shaping a girl into what you want is another form of dominance. And it can be pro-social. I think it is the natural path.

      This idea that women are children appeals to me. “Teaching” children is only natural.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Great stuff. I’ve always thought of women (especially young women) as the ultimate form of “clay ready to be moulded”. I tend to attract girls who didn’t have a strong father figure in their life, and I can’t lie – I enjoy being that for them. Especially my girlfriend; the changes she’s made in the last 2 years have been mindblowing.

        She’s lost 10kg, moved out of home, dropped her shitty university degree and started her own business, deadlifted 100kg, cut out every toxic friend from her life and built a new social circle who are into self-improvement/being better, fixed an eating disorder, done little “challenges” like striking up a 15-minute conversation with 20 strangers (people at bus stops, random strangers in shopping malls, etc), joined a cheerleading team and a bunch of other stuff. All of that in only 2 years.

        And all it’s taken is a bit of patience and giving her some gentle nudges in the right direction. Mentoring or “teaching” is fun as hell; you care to share in someone else’s underdog story.

        Liked by 2 people

    1. Andy I’ve also read a few of your posts, love your work. There are many aspects of your story that I identify with.

      I missed this post when it came out but was just catching up. A lot of people brought up “training” and I strongly agree with this as an ethos. Most people spoke about it in the context of an active thing. From my perspective everything we do, when we’re interacting with others is training them. In the context of a romantic relationship, if you set a boundary, and don’t enforce it, you’re training a woman that you don’t enforce your boundaries. If she speaks disrespectfully to you and you “take it”, you’re training her to disrespect you. And so on and so forth. I think there are times where we want our partner to learn certain behaviors from us and TRQ mentions a bunch, but I think it’s even more important to think about the times when we train people by our inaction, or our inability to speak up for ourselves. This is also training people in how we expect to be treated. Lastly, how we treat ourselves trains others how to treat us. Present yourself like a fat slob, people will subconsciously understand that you don’t respect yourself and you will be amazed by how poorly the average person/woman treats you.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Great post, I like the part about stating about the elephant in the room. But geez, do you have a sugar obsession? Sugar isn’t bad, no need to go zero sugar. Just don’t consume excessive amounts and don’t drink sugary drinks.


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