Doing it differently (Playing the long game)

Xbtusd is back, with another essay about how top guys think about dating and pursue non-monogamy.

I just got word from a long term threesome partner, Anna, that she will be in town in a few weeks, and we scheduled a date. My relationship with Anna makes me think about how different RQ’s experiences are from mine, and how different mine are from the average guy. I’ve put a lot of time and energy into Anna, planting a seed and nurturing it as it grew. When the pandemic struck, Anna moved to another city to ride it out with her boyfriend. During lockdown, the four of us played online games together. When I went out of the country for the winter to a surf destination to escape covid winter, I kept in touch regularly via IG, commenting on her life and sharing mine with her. A lot of red pill commenters would probably say this is “beta,” or “soft”, or “cucked.” Is it? I don’t know, or really care. Human relationships are worth creating and maintaining for their own sake; treat people as instruments and you will become an instrument to them, to be discarded when your use is fulfilled. I don’t like fucking women I don’t know well and connect with as a person. Sex gets better the deeper you connect, not to mention that women need to trust you to fully to let go and have the best sexual experience possible. Want to fuck a girl in the ass? Tie her up? Cum on her face? Treating her like you like her helps, but liking her is exponentially better. 

I first met Anna years ago at a sex party. She and her boyfriend invited my girlfriend and I to fuck. We instead invited them to watch us fuck, and ended up spending a lot of time talking to them throughout the night. We made out a little, watched them fuck, but took it slow. This slow speed was unusual for the type of party I was at, but I wasn’t feeling their energy at first and wanted to get to know them better. Her boyfriend had recently moved to another city and was just in town for the party, so the four of us have never hooked up together. 

Right now, I’m also in the process of scheduling a date with a woman I dated years ago, Rose, who is now engaged. She and her fiance are non monogamous, so there was always an understanding that she’d be allowed to sleep with other men. Since then I’ve become friends with her fiancé, who is great, and Rose and I go on dates from time to time. Rose and I only started sleeping together again two years after she’d started dating her partner. I kept investing in the relationship because I wanted to sleep with her again, sure, I’m a guy, but also because I genuinely enjoyed spending time with her. She eventually proposed a threesome with her current fiance but I wasn’t feeling it. When Rose and I have date nights, we often facetime her fiance together so he feels included. I don’t get stuck in axiomatic thinking. I’m trying to get people to examine hilarious knee-jerk reactions that are at beginner level, red pill bullshit. If I’m living a fulfilling life, why call names? The desire to label others keeps the labeler frozen at the beginning levels. 

There’s a distinct difference between what I’m suggesting and pining away for a girl who is never going to fuck you (i.e. the dreaded friend zone): if you want sex and you realize she’s never going to go in that direction, accept it, and talk to new girls. However, investing in lots of female relationships will often bear fruit (as will investing in genuine friendships with men). As you have more unconventional experiences and relationship configurations, you start to see that trying to create win-win scenarios can produce very high long term ROI. Your perspective will shift. Your sense of the nature of sex culture will shift. I don’t care that much about variety, so what I’m proposing might not be attractive to everyone. But having girls who want to fuck you over many years, who are down to go to sex parties with you, have private sex parties with you, and do unconventional shit, takes investment. It takes time. It takes building trust. It takes reciprocity. The higher the trust the more likely you will have really incredible, outside of the norm experiences. As you have these experiences, they show you what’s possible, allowing you to understand what women want, and what you can offer that’s a compelling proposition. The more of these types of situations you’re in, the easier it is to brainstorm unusual arrangements that might hit the sweet spot on the venn diagram of what all parties involved want/need to get to a yes.

As RQ would say, there are levels to this game: 99% of the time, if you’re new to TRP, the advice—to not put chicks on a pedestal, don’t play the long game, don’t pine for some chick who you are “friends” with but secretly want to fuck—is extremely effective. But if you ignore the long game, and demand that a chick either sleep with you quickly or you’re out, you’ll rarely see what’s possible at the higher levels of game. Many chicks aren’t going to sleep with a guy immediately, and, if she does, she’ll frequently put him in the “casual sex’ category, and never want to sleep with him again.

In many ways, RQ’s levels align with Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs:

Discussion/pattern level.

  • Self Actualization
    • FMF threesomes, BDSM, sex parties etc.
    • Women as members of a group but also evaluating them as individuals. We are both at once. Not all women are alike, though one can see patterns among them.
  • Psychological Needs
    • The evolutionary biology discussion:
      • Learning long-term patterns of attraction, behavior, and incentives for men and women.
      • Field reports and testing the theory in real life.
    • The (better) Reddit red pill discussion is about the need for men to: 
      • Improve diet, lifting, socializing, etc. 
      • Eliminate negative influences like video games, porn, TV, etc. 
      • Learning to approach and accept that women like sex and have sexual criteria. 
  • Physiological Needs/Safety Needs
    • A foggy mixture of confusion, hostility, admiration, and uncertainty:
      • “happy wife, happy life.” 
      • “What do women want?”
      • “I don’t understand why she did this thing.”
      • “She says she wants a nice guy but only dates assholes.” 
      • Putting women on a pedestal. 
    • Women are evil demons and shrieking harpies and just trying to shake men down for money. This is the “anger phase” that men who discover cheating, men with f**ked up lives, men who have suffered through the divorce and “family” law court system, etc. are facing. Most women aren’t trying to shake men down for money, but money and economic resources are a real consideration for women, because those things point to a man with a functional life who can provide for children. 

A lot of the perspectives you have at the beginning of the pyramid will change as you move from serving basic needs to exploring what’s possible at the outer bounds of what men have access to. It’s the difference between working at McDonald’s and being a scientist working on the human project. Long-term thinking can be crucial to success in the self-actualization phase, and self-actualization generally demands positive-sum relationships. A scarcity mindset leads to zero-sum relationships that aren’t as generative as they should be. The question I ask myself is: Are some of my investments a result of clinging to a scarcity mindset and my own limiting beliefs about my ability to bring more high quality women into my life? Unsure, but currently trying to fill the top of the funnel with some amazing women this summer.


Xbtusd’s other essays for Red Quest are here.

“The [male] feminist”

The [male] feminist” is solid reading about a guy who needs a dad or uncle or male cousin to take him aside and tell him to stop being a p***y. Much of what we perceive as social or gender dysfunction is actually, at its heart, family dysfunction and disintegration, and, because of families are smaller and more fractured than they used to be, we don’t know how to become adults, which usually also means “how to become a man” or “how to become a woman.” “The [male] feminist” is most notable for the absence in it, because there’s no mention of this guy’s father or uncle. Where are they? Does his uncle not exist? why not?

There used to be a guy who kept a blog named Goldmund, for example, who, whatever his flaws, talked a lot about his older male relatives and how they influenced his development. Unfortunately his blog has been effectively abandoned… but he’s one of the few guys I’ve seen talk seriously about family and family influence. A lot of “how to be a man” and “how to be a woman” are best conveyed by aunts, uncles, older cousins, those relationships. Default_friend tweeted the other day that she learns a lot from her mom and grandma (can’t find the tweet at the moment), which may help explain why she thinks modern feminism is re/tarded. Camille Paglia writes about the same in her books and essays, about the vital role extended family play in development.

Who or what replaces family? Schools, bureaucracies, ideologies. Except none of those replacements work, it’s like trying to live off McDonald’s and fast food: even if you’re technically alive, you’re barely living. In “The [male] feminist,” the guy absorbs an ideology pitched by power-hungry bureaucrats. The story is exaggerated for effect, I understand that, but normal guys, as they get older, they understand how to discard bullshit that doesn’t work. Even the pathetic snake guys who embrace “I am a feminist” as a way to get laid in high school or college, almost always quit at some point. You get old enough to see an ideology doesn’t work, you quit it. The most interesting part of many stories isn’t what’s in them, but what’s missing.

Chicks aren’t attracted to vulnerability, and the story’s narrator goes around with his belly exposed to every chick he runs into. Chicks like guys they can be vulnerable with, but not guys who are vulnerable. Or the guy is vulnerable is a minor way, like, “I am afraid of heights.” Or maybe, “My ex was super hot but also hurt me badly.” Your hot ex (social proof) hurt you, and now I, a lady, can heal you with my magic pussy? That’s minor vulnerability. Major vulnerability is something like outright incompetence. Competence is attractive to women, which is why effective men work so hard to develop it.

Lots of red pill guys get that masculinity is earned, not given, and that’s why so many primitive tribes have intense male initiation rituals. Femininity is given, not earned, just by going through puberty. That power must be learned to be wielded well, to be sure, but it’s there by showing up… something the male feminist in the story misses.

I don’t remember how the exact conversation went, but Short Dancer admitted that she slept with an incompetent guy her age (who I knew slightly) right before I started f**king her. The guy got her by virtue of proximity and luck, but he lacked masculinity identity and had no one, from what I can tell, to teach him about it. Then I got with Short Dancer, who was diplomatic, but also basically said that he lacked adequate aggression and masculinity. I thought the guy was okay, and if I’d been able to see a way to help him I would have, but, due to some other circumstances, there was no real way to do so. Maybe losing Short Dancer to an older, more masculine guy taught him something important. He seemed like a guy who might identify as a male feminist, although I never heard him actually do so.

Continue reading ““The [male] feminist””

A guy screws up a potential foursome with his endless monologuing

My then-girlfriend and I were propositioned by this couple, and it might have gone through, except for the guy’s personality. We met this couple outside of the open relationship and non-monogamy community because they lived near us and shared some common habits: the girl was a hot European, probably a high 8. We’d encountered them repeatedly, in the neighborhood, and they were friendly and normal at first… the guy also helped us find a small bit MDMA, which is nice). One night we were all drinking a bit and actually getting to know each other, as opposed to idle chitchat. It’s hard to describe the exact feeling, and nothing physical changed, but over the course of the night I felt the energy shift from “normal and friendly” to “this is more than friendly.” I’m sure my girlfriend felt the shift too, as she’d been sufficiently immersed in this world to know.

I wasn’t totally opposed to to the potential foursome (did I mention the girl is stunning?), but, even though my girlfriend and I could feel the sexual interest, the other guy couldn’t shut up. When we were all hanging out, he’d embark on these endlessly long rambles and tangents. Not sharing the conversation is one of my partner’s huge pet peeves, and she’s been annoyed at work when guys talk over her or try to talk over her, and she’d complained repeatedly and vociferously about guys who monologue. Just like this guy was doing. Sharing the conversation is a fundamental aspect of social skills, and this other guy wasn’t doing it. If a person is going to monologue, they better have Chris Rock or Jerry Seinfeld levels of story quality. This guy didn’t.

From what I could distil, they both had super interesting life stories, but we couldn’t extract those life stories, or hear them… I was thinking of the guy when I wrote Curiosity leads to sexual freedom… and threesomes… and storytelling, although he’s not the only one who’s had this problem.

Continue reading “A guy screws up a potential foursome with his endless monologuing”

Girls talking about their friend’s open relationship: It’s happening

The other day I’m in a mezzanine above the gym’s snack bar, and below me there are four chicks, one of them loudly describing her friend’s open relationship. Friends’s open relationship, more accurately, cause she knows, and the others there appear to know, this couple who are in an open relationship, and the girl talking in the snack bar says the guy is busy f**king a bunch of girls… and the girl is bisexual and also f**king a bunch of girls. The other three girls’s reactions is the most interesting part: one seems to be generally positive or approving of the situation. Another chick seems to be generally hostile and disapproving, and is trying to establish the consensus that the open relationship “is not okay,” to use girl terminology. Personally I prefer old-school Christian terminology like “they are damned” or “they are disobeying the will of God” or “they are sinners” instead of the new-school, wishy-washy, California SJW terminology like “not okay,” but, whatever, you call someone a heresiarch these days and everyone else looks at you funny. The other girl listening seems neutral, or is not loudly expressing her view of the situation. The speaker seems lightly positive, like she’s the teacher educating the others on the nuts and bolts of open relationships, and how this couple is doing it. Now, class, what is the square root of three?

On Twitter, I’ve been linking to articles discussing open relationships, sex clubs, and other aspects of non-monogamy, with the statement, “It’s happening:” I repeat “It’s happening” because it is happening, ready or not, and these girls are a small but real piece of evidence regarding the shift. Guys who want to be maximally successful should think about how the shift to non-monogamy might affect them and their game. I’m not saying all guys should do sex clubs (in fact I say the opposite in the free book), but guys should at a minimum be aware of it. Talk to enough girls and you’re going to run into girls who’re doing it, or interested. If you like hedonistic adventurous girls like I do, talking about your time in sex clubs will attract and intrigue them (you’ll be different from other guys).

This was an overheard conversation not so much notable for its basic content but for it happening at all. Word is spreading. It also showcased female group dynamics (remember: social life is primarily a team sport), because the girls were trying to establish consensus and sway the group… the hostile girl wanted the group to be hostile, the approving girl wanted its approval, and the neutral girl might end up being the deciding vote. Because I know you’re wondering, only one is attractive (the quiet one, but you knew that already too) and the other three are overweight. Does that change how you envision the situation?

I’d have a threesome with him. What, you wouldn’t? What do you mean, this hat makes me look like a slut? I saw that rope tattoo on your lower back.