My then-girlfriend and I were propositioned by this couple, and it might have gone through, except for the guy’s personality. We met this couple outside of the open relationship and non-monogamy community because they lived near us and shared some common habits: the girl was a hot European, probably a high 8. We’d encountered them repeatedly, in the neighborhood, and they were friendly and normal at first… the guy also helped us find a small bit MDMA, which is nice). One night we were all drinking a bit and actually getting to know each other, as opposed to idle chitchat. It’s hard to describe the exact feeling, and nothing physical changed, but over the course of the night I felt the energy shift from “normal and friendly” to “this is more than friendly.” I’m sure my girlfriend felt the shift too, as she’d been sufficiently immersed in this world to know.
I wasn’t totally opposed to to the potential foursome (did I mention the girl is stunning?), but, even though my girlfriend and I could feel the sexual interest, the other guy couldn’t shut up. When we were all hanging out, he’d embark on these endlessly long rambles and tangents. Not sharing the conversation is one of my partner’s huge pet peeves, and she’s been annoyed at work when guys talk over her or try to talk over her, and she’d complained repeatedly and vociferously about guys who monologue. Just like this guy was doing. Sharing the conversation is a fundamental aspect of social skills, and this other guy wasn’t doing it. If a person is going to monologue, they better have Chris Rock or Jerry Seinfeld levels of story quality. This guy didn’t.
From what I could distil, they both had super interesting life stories, but we couldn’t extract those life stories, or hear them… I was thinking of the guy when I wrote Curiosity leads to sexual freedom… and threesomes… and storytelling, although he’s not the only one who’s had this problem.
By the end of end of the night, they invited us to their apartment for a drink, but the guy’s personality was a turn-off to the point that my girlfriend spiked the deal. Both times we hung out with them for longer periods of time, either the guy or both of them were a bit tipsy/drunk too, which may have led to the guy’s babbling. I felt exhausted after listening to him drone for an hour, or however long I did. There are masterful storytellers out there… have you ever listened to Michael Lewis on a podcast? I can listen forever, he’s fascinating. The rest of us… no. I’d also bet Michael Lewis is great at gauging his audience’s engagement, and if they’re engaged, he keeps going. If not, he probably eases off.
Part of being conversational is knowing when to shut up… and this guy, the guy from my story, couldn’t shut up. I felt like I didn’t know him well enough, though, to say, “By the way, being quiet occasionally will go a long way.” They were both late 20s, I think, too, so old enough to know better. Old enough to know when to ask questions, or be quiet.
In a good conversation, you will figure out where the other person or people are. This guy wasn’t able or willing to do that.
I don’t know if I’ve seen this aspect of social dynamics covered by game writers. Finding the right balance between speaking and truly listening is tricky. Young scared guys will often not be able to talk much at all (myself too… been there, had that problem).
Bodi has a description in his books of being on a date with a girl and realizing that both of them are giggling and talking nonsense. And it doesn’t matter, cause the girl is having a good time. Some girls are very physical and not verbal/cerebral. Other girls, who are verbal and in their heads, will be extremely put off by dumb guys, or guys who talk over them. Part of the guy’s job is to discern what kind of girl he’s with. Part of the job of a couple leading a seduction is to take non-verbal feedback from the other couple.
Another guy I know had, probably still has, the babbling problem too… not in a romantic/sexual context, but in general. In groups, he’d get excited, cut people off, and doing this repeatedly led to most of the people in the loose group getting annoyed with him. He was also flakey and a taker, traits that didn’t help, and that led to him being effectively ejected from some friend and acquittance groups.
I’m not saying you have to be perfect (you don’t) or that the “right” path is always available, because it isn’t. It can also be normal to interrupt occasionally, for a specific reason, or out of excitement. The guys I’m writing about were both extreme, the one in rambling and the other in interrupting. The first guy also really liked going to bars to hang out, I think because bars are an acceptable place for aimless ramblers… one reason I’m not a bar guy… am I learning something from this conversation? No? Then there’s a good chance I don’t want to be having it.
A guy can be bad at conversation or talk over people and still get laid. Some girls are pushovers and have no personality, or they’re empty vessels waiting to get filled by the personality of whatever guy is nearby. But a guy who rambles without regard to audience is going to drop a lot of opportunities, particularly from higher-quality girls. My then-girlfriend was pretty and also intellectually sharp: far too sharp to tolerate that rambler. Girls are on average much more attuned to the social world and to the world of feelings than guys are, and non-monogamy works when the girls are comfortable and trusting. It’s common in good threesomes, for example, for the third-party to double check and make sure everything is okay before something intense happens, like outright penetration. That final check-in makes everyone feel comfortable: for a lot of women, it’s extremely intense to be in bed with the boyfriend as he enters another woman. Same for a guy who is about to see his woman penetrated by another man. That last check-in, and accepting a “no” gracefully should it happen, helps align everyone and make sure that everyone’s feelings are considered. Someone who can’t be considerate of feelings and audience in conversation is communicating that he, or she, might not be considerate in bed, either.
In the situation with the guy and the hot Euro chick, it’s possible that I could’ve cajoled my girlfriend into taking one for the team, or going for it and seeing what happens. But that would’ve damaged our relationship, perhaps fatally. I’ve made mistakes, but, by the time this swap was effectively proposed, I’d learned from my errors. I’d have enjoyed f**king the hot Euro girl, but would my partner have enjoyed the guy? We’ll never find out, cause the guy wasn’t sufficiently socially deft.