Sometime along the way to being a player, I figured out that it’s often useful to say something about date 2 when I’m on date 1 with a girl: mention cooking, for example, and say, “Come over for dinner, next time.” Then set a date, usually two days from the moment of the date. So if the date is Tuesday, shoot for Thursday, and feel out her schedule, and schedule that date. Making things happen is man frame, accepting offers is woman frame. Text her the next day, “Good seeing you yesterday, and I’m looking forward to seeing you tomorrow at [time].” She can decline the date at that point (and sometimes does, it happens, it’s all in the game). My classic strategy has been one or two bars on date 1, then try to bounce her home, if possible, and my working theory has been that she’ll respect the effort to lay her, and the boldness, even if she says no. Magnum has used a two-date model successfully, which seems to reduce flakiness and female rejection due to self-perceived negative sluttiness. He thinks the two-date model helps with retention, and he may be right about that, although if the girl feels “on” during date one, he’ll lay her or at least try.
Game is about balancing tension and comfort, and I think most guys who get into the game and studying the game are nerds who tend towards too much comfort and insufficient edge.
This comes up cause a player says he’s “noticing the rate of girls who ghost me after I’ve fucked them once or twice has been going up since I moved to [city].” He’s an older guy dating mostly 18 – 23. Before you say, “it’s the age thing,” remember he’s been doing this successfully for years, and it’s the change in results that’s interesting. A change in one variable needs to be examined on its own, if other variables hold constant. The player says,
My take is I’m getting to sex very fast, usually within 1-2 hours (one girl was on first date, one girl was right away on the 2nd date to my place) I’m giving them good sex and running good game. The vibe seems good until the time they leave. But then when I ping text them the next day they go silent. This used to happen with about a third of the girls I [slept with] that I wanted to see again.
Now it’s happening with about two-thirds of girls he wants to see again. He self-diagnosed as, “My guess is I’m getting to sex too fast with not enough comfort” and that he might come off as too much of a player. Reasonable. “Future projection” is a kind of technical game term that just means, “Talking about something you’re going to do with a chick in the future.” It can help the girl think you’re not yet another guy who is going to f**k her and that’s it. Future projection is usually comfort, telling the girl that you’re not one of these guys who’s just going to bust a nut in her and disappear into the night (although some girls seek that). On a subconscious, evolutionary level, girls are usually scared of guys who lay them and leave: before reliable birth control and condoms, those guys would saddle her with a baby but no support system during pregnancy or the child’s infancy, which is a crisis for a woman. Today, her conscious mind understands that her IUD will prevent pregnancy, but her subconscious mind is still in play. Girls vary in their need for comfort and tension, but the average girl does need some comfort, and I think early future projection, even on the first date, can help with comfort (I don’t know who coined the term “future projection,” but it wasn’t me).
Girls are incredibly random and flakey, and they often have trouble making plans more than a few days in advance (I just got caught by this fact the other day), which is part of the reason I find it amusing that so many chicks online complain about “f**k boys,” it’s like, you should try meeting chicks and getting them to consistently agree to be somewhere and then actually show up to that place. But I digress. “Random and flakey girls” is likely an adverse selection problem, too, cause chicks who show up when and where they say they’re going to be, get boyfriends, if/when they want them. I’ve listened to flakey girls talk about how hard it is to get a boyfriend, and I’m like, “B***h, you are getting back the same things you put into the world… flakiness and uncertainty and randomness…” but we are always better at seeing other people’s flaws than our own.
I was experimenting with future projection around psychedelics and mdma around the time I was exiting the game proper, and framing those as peak life experiences seemed to generate interest and some anchoring, but I’ve not generated enough data to say, and I’m not likely to in the immediate future. The risk of mentioning psychedelics and mdma, however, is that the average girl is unfamiliar with either, and her impression of the average person interested in such things is like mine, before I learned better, and that degenerates, losers, idiots, and hippies tend to be interested in them… in other words, the same kinds of people who are interested in healing crystals, conspiracy theories, going by names like “Fairy Kamchatka Love,” and going on food stamps because having a job is “working for the man.” So I will ask her about her peak experiences, what constituted them, where they came from, what we’re on earth to do, what life is about, that sort of stuff, and then introduce these things a bit slantwise. It helps that I come off as pretty employed and bourgeois, so psychedelics and mdma are counterprogramming. Chicks like Mr. Contrast, the bad boy who loves his mom and also has a dog, or the buttoned-up office guy who is also a shibari expert, that sort of thing. In response to something The Personality Girl tweeted, I have a novel coming out soon, that covers some of these topics.
I generally will try to frame or imply that most girls’s lives are boring (this is true, so it tends to work, and most girls will admit it, at some point), and sometimes say so directly, and pitch myself as the antidote. Given how much time I like quietly drinking coffee and reading books this is pretty funny… but this line of conversations seems to get good reactions… my theory is that most guys are boring too, so it takes relatively little action to seem fun and exciting by comparison. That, and judicious storytelling. I could happily talk about my professional life and books for hours with chicks, but none want to hear about it, they want a guy who can elicit their own feelings and sensations, and most girls today are functionally illiterate anyway, sadly.
The player mentions that he’s used future projection and it works “very well for girls I want to keep long term, but generally I don’t use it until we’ve been dating a few weeks at least. I’ll think about bringing that in sooner.” He’s done very well with women, so this is a minor optimization. Most guys would love to have had his success. With chicks, having them think about the potential path forward and one day visiting Puerto Rico, or whatever young chicks dream about, seems to help… the great thing about mushrooms, is they’re a trip without having to get on a plane.
Think about the life of a chick worth f**king. The chick knows that she’s thin, she knows that you’re a guy and thus want to f**k her, so what’s separating you from other guys? “The anticipation of future change in circumstances” can be one of those things. Then you’re a guy who, obviously, wants to f**k her, like all straight guys, but you may also change the venues in which you’re f**king her, which girls find important, for whatever female reasons.
When diagnosing problems, it’s good to consider lower probability issues. Another possibility: he’s hit some age-related threshold and is going to find the game harder going forward. This doesn’t seem too likely, because he’s getting them on dates and sleeping with them. Right now, chicks might still be worried about COVID, despite vaccinations being widely available. Nationally, COVID rates are below their April 2020 rates, but there is still much anti-vaccine misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies going around on the Internet, and it’s possible chicks have been exposed to some. I was vaccinated early, and this girl wouldn’t have happened without that being true. Overall, though, I’d expect girls worried about COVID not to come out at all, or not to have sex, rather than f**king and ghosting. It’s also possible this player has simply been on a run of bad luck. Daniel Kahneman, Oliver Sibony, and Cass Sunstein have a book, Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment, out, and it is about how hard it is to know what we think we know. “Wherever there is judgment, there is noise.” Maybe this player has had a cold streak as far as retention goes, and this will help him remedy it.
This is a thing I found via search for “future projection game,” it’s from back in 2009, and that blog was last updated in 2018. The age of the essay and blog point to the importance of writing your own player blog, not just relying on Twitter or reddit, because those latter mediums are very present-focused, so anything that happens more than 36 hours before the present might as well not exist on those mediums. Search traffic to blog posts, by contrast, can and will exist over years and apparently even decades. Prefer to do things that last over ephemera, if you can.
So that’s my theory and practice. What’s yours? Leave the answer in the comments.
Girls are often like toddlers in that if a person isn’t directly in front of them, in their field of vision, the person doesn’t exist.
5 thoughts on “How to think about “future projection” on dates, and how to retain girls better”
“Then set a date, usually two days from the moment of the date. So if the date is Tuesday, shoot for Thursday, and feel out her schedule, and schedule that date.”
Just to confirm, you are already doing this on the 1st date, not just hinting at it but already agreeing on a concrete day? And the text the next day is just to confirm?
Yeah, pretty much… the “feel out” thing is important… but “two days hence” seems to have been a good metric for me. “Every other day” has tended to be a good cadence for chicks I like… it’s not the hard core “twice a week max” guys, but I’m not convinced that works well for most guys…
Got it, thanks. Wasn’t sure about the part of already concretely scheduling the 2nd date.
Yeah makes sense to get some pre-comittment from her. Had really good 1st dates in the past, with the girl being into me, making out with her, parting on a positive note and then losing her in the shuffle of trying to arrange a 2nd date via text.