Cocky funny with two girls in a bar [FR]

Xbtusd comes with a spicy field report straight from the streets.

Girls can be self defeating, an idea best explained through a story: I’ve been holed up for around a month due to getting COVID, and then with everyone I know going back into lockdown hibernation mode I was craving some social energy, so a friend and I headed to a local bar. It’s a great spot, designed to look like the inside of a log cabin, with a working wood stove in the back room. It’s cozy and was poppin last night. As I’ve said before, my bar game is pretty bad, but I’ve committed to approaching every time a certain set of conditions is met (“committing to doing something” and then doing it is how you get better at anything). As I entered, I noticed two reasonably cute girls (6/7s) sitting at the bar facing each other; the tall one faced and stared at me like she knew me. I often meet people and forget them, so I started racking my brain as I paused to figure out if I knew her—and not snub her if we had met. Like most dudes, usually my memory for cute girls is better than my memory for people in general. 

I couldn’t remember her, so my buddy and I just kept walking. We grabbed some drinks and settled into a spot against the wall and were just hanging, having a good time. I wanted to approach those two girls but also was slightly wary they might be either doing “girl time” and would get pissed if I approached, or that they were maybe on a date with each other, which can get you killed for interrupting where I live. I wanted to avoid that mistake so I figured I’d try and do some recon. Eventually a spot at the bar opened up next to them so I grabbed it (proximity can count as flirting), and tossed my jacket onto the bar and tried to get the bartender’s attention. As I did that, the girl on my left (“Lauren,” as I later learned) said, “is this your jacket?” and we both kind of bumped arms. I said yes, and then she smiled and said, “I was just looking for a way to start a conversation with you.” These two girls were not only NOT on a date with each other, NOT looking for girl time, but wanted to get fucked and were at the bar with the explicit intention to meet dudes. Okay, I’ll bite.

So I brought my friend, Tom, into the conversation, he followed my lead and started engaging “Sara” while I chatted with Lauren. Lauren was fun, flirty, and we quickly got onto the topic of online dating. She showed me her Feeld profile, (great sign) and wanted any tips, and I showed her mine, which reveals that I’m in an open relationship and some other positive traits I don’t want to specify here. Photography matters. She was super into the pics, but when Tom showed her his Feeld profile, she said his pics didn’t capture his essence and that I looked hotter in my pics but she thought he was hotter in real life. Good banter, cocky funny being run by a girl, I’m into it. We continued having fun playful banter, and I went pretty hard on the cocky funny, bordering on arrogant, vibe.

Game dudes often talk about having “outcome independence.” I think there are very few situations where one can feel truly outcome independent, but I am currently in such a state: I am seeing three women regularly who at least IMO are hot, I have a great connection with, are super fun, the sex is great, and are smart and interesting to talk to, and down for sex parties and multi partner sex. I also have my primary partner who I live with and am in a long term great relationship with.  In addition to that, I have a few more irons in the fire that have not converted—yet—but are fun, flirty additions to my life. 

I mention this not to brag, but to describe my state of mind when I was interacting with these women at the bar: it truly felt like a game. I wanted to win, but defeat would be inconsequential. I was fully present, enjoying myself, and truly striving just to make the interaction as fun as I could for all of us, which allowed me to play characters and direct the conversation in a way that if anything probably risks turning girls off by being too confident and falling into an arrogant frame. It’s pretty easy to get a read on women when the confidence is too much, and you can much more easily roll back confidence than you can up your confidence when you are being weak. 

I went to the bathroom and when I got back Tom was standing talking to Lauren and I reclaimed my seat next to her. She told me that Tom had just finished telling her how we met. Now, for context, Tom and I have known each other for ten years, but as I wrote, we recently had a MFM threesome that started at the very bar we were at. So he of course had told her the real story, and so I asked her, “Well, what did Tom tell you?” She summarized the how we met story, and I laughed and said, “Why don’t you tell her how we REALLY met.” He laughed and said, “and how was that?” I told her that we had met on Feeld, and had brought a girl to this very bar to the back room, and then went a few blocks a way to his place and fucked her silly. (This can be a polarizing move, but polarization has its place.)

Lauren was a bit shocked and asked if that was the truth and I said, “God’s honest truth all of that happened.” This is of course both true and a lie as it’s NOT how we met. Tom quickly followed my lead laughing and confirming that yes this was the actual story but he was a little nervous to tell her the truth. She loved it, raised her hand in the air like, “pick me!” I gave her my phone and said for her to text me and write her name and three things she liked about me and Tom. At this point my cockiness went a little to far, and she started to feel like the balance of power was too out of whack and she pushed back and was like, “I’m not fucking applying to have you guys fuck me.” 

Wasn’t she, though?

Part of this is female arrogance. Women want to feel like the prize when it comes to sex: they want to fuck guys who are higher value than them but they still want to feel like they’re the prize, which makes game tricky. You can’t act like they’re the prize, otherwise the girls are repulsed by your demonstration of lower value. But you also have to make them feel like they are the prize, otherwise they start to feel not special. The catch-22 and paradox of the female brain. Game is full of ambiguity and narrow leeways. 

Clearly she was starting to feel like a slut and we’d lost the pro-sex frame. So I pulled back from the cocky/funny and started delivering comfort, “Of course you’re not applying! I never said applying, that’s what you said! But we do deliver an incredible product and I stand by it. I do just want to know what you like about us though!” 

Tom went back to talking to Sarah and I started vibing with her more. She was fully facing me with legs apart and I put my leg in between hers so our legs were touching and started looking straight into her eyes. I told her to take off her glasses. I told her to try mine on, essentially just trying to establish more kino and comfort. Talked to her more about random bullshit, asking her dumb shit about herself. Then, soon after, I asked her if she wanted to kiss me, which is one of my favorite ways to kiss a girl, because it reverses the usual frame that sex is a gift women give to men. It implies that sex is a gift I give to her, and not only that, that I am aware enough of my sexual attractiveness that I know this is true, and that I can read that this is what she is thinking and feeling right now. 

Again, sometimes my frame can come on too strong, and she started feeling like a slut. I personally love sluts, but girls can have mixed feelings about feeling like one. She responded by retorting, “DO YOU WANT TO KISS ME!?” And then I said obviously and we made out. Then I was like, “Well, if you think Tom’s hotter, kiss him and tell me if you also think he’s a better kisser.” So her and Tom made out and I talked some shit about being a way better kisser than Tom. Then I made some vague reference to the fact that Tom and I had made out before, which threw her off because then she was wondering if we were bi (we’re not), but it again put her in our frame of we know she wants what we have, and she’s intrigued, and not in control of the situation and is not even sure if the thing she wants is being offered. 

I asked Sara if she wanted to kiss me and she had a strong reaction that NO she did not want to kiss me and was offended by the suggestion. She obviously wanted to kiss both of us, but she was not on Feeld, and this was starting to raise her slut feelings, so I went back into comfort mode. She said she was going to get an Uber home, I got up, switched positions with Tom and started giving her my full attention and let Tom work on Lauren. I did the whole, “Don’t leave…stay…come on…I want you to stay…you know you want to stay…” and she did the pretend like she had to make this hard decision but…. “ok ok ok…I’ll stay if you want me to stay that bad.” Girls are boring and predictable. 

She went to the bathroom, canceled the Uber, and I was like, “Ok, game on.” So we really vibed for like 30 minutes. She was fun, I was in full storytelling mode mixing in a lot of sexual topics. For example, she was wearing overalls and had huge tits and we talked about how hot she would look just being naked no bra or shirt underneath with the overalls. She was down for the sexual talk and obviously was physically attracted to me (based on the stare when I walked in), so I did light touch but was very physically close to her the whole time we were talking essentially standing pressed up against her legs while she was sitting and I standing. There wasn’t a natural moment to kiss her, so I just straight up asked her, kind of in the frame that, “Ok we’ve been playing this game, you want to show you’re not a slut and wanted my attention and weren’t going to kiss me without me having talked to you and gamed you first, and you got me to beg you to stay etc etc, so let’s make out already.” 

She was again a firm “no” on making out. I was shocked at this point and a little annoyed because the whole thing was clearly just a game, and I had won, and she had won, and why not have a little fun? I want to win and help win, and here she was making us lose and help lose. She clearly wanted to fuck me but was trying to make some kind of point? I confirmed she didn’t have a boyfriend so that wasn’t the issue. So normally I would never do this, but I was so annoyed I just blurted out, “WHY?” Sometimes “bad” game is fun. Know when to break rapport! Or be true to yourself.  And she said something to the effect that her friend was interested in me, so some kind of dysfunctional, buggy girl code meant that she couldn’t make out with me. I wanted to reprogram her broken mind, but she had some other stupid reasons that I don’t even remember. Not long after this Lauren abruptly got up from her chair, put her coat on and started walking out of the bar. Sara quickly followed. Women are herd animals. 

I debriefed with Tom after and he said as soon as I left to talk to Sara, Lauren started feeling like we were just using her to get to her friend. They clearly had some unresolved competitive shit between them that was fucking up their vibe: they both could’ve gotten laid, they could’ve swapped between Tom and me, they could’ve found their way into an amazing group, the kind of social group people everywhere dream of being in but rarely enter and usually can’t build (pairs of girls can be a problem because if one gets more attention than the other, the other may torpedo the whole experience). I have spent many years building social and sexual valhalla, and these girls spit on the gates and walked back to normalcy. She even complained to me how much she hated dating apps and that she had 2k likes on Feeld but it was a waste of time wading through the trash. And here we are, two hot, cool guys delivered to them like mana from heaven. The IRL “meet cute” girls complain never happens anymore. “No one approaches girls at bars anymore,” the Feminists wail! “I just want to meet a guy IRL,” they say (spelling out “I-R-L”)! Tom said the whole time I was talking to Sara he was essentially on the defense trying to get Lauren to calm down and convince her we weren’t just using her to get to her friend. Her friend was a bit hotter but not substantially so, so I’m not sure why this was such a big insecurity. With some guys, I’d worry about their game, but I knew Tom’s was tight. 

The traditional “game” reading of this FR might be to look at it through the lens of, “What could we have done differently to make sex happen?” At this point, in this place of abundance, I’m much more picky. My goal is to have fun and create an environment where sex can happen in the way that I want it to with people who meet my (very high) bar. For reasons I won’t get to, it would have created some issues in my relationship if I actually fucked them, so I wasn’t even set on doing it, instead I was interviewing them to see if they’d be worth it. Turns out the answer is no. I wouldn’t go back and do anything differently, because they are who they are, and for many reasons we were all not a fit. Things seem much simpler and clearer through this lens. Remember these girls when you listen to women whine about how there are no good guys out there. Are there no good guys, or are the women unable to access those “good” guys?

All in all it was a hilarious turn of events, from a girl signing up for a threesome roughly 15 minutes into meeting her to essentially running out of the bar never to speak to us again. Some women just can’t get out of their own way.

9 thoughts on “Cocky funny with two girls in a bar [FR]”

  1. Entertaining story, thanks for sharing it.

    Is there a way to pronounce “XBT” or is it just the initials? Does it mean anything? I see it’s USD on your own blog but GBT on your Red Quest page.

    The log cabin & wood stove setting sounds nice in the winter.

    This is all just, like, my opinion, man. I’m sure I’ll be told how I get it all wrong.

    One part I don’t get at all.

    “She was wondering if we were bi (we’re not)”
    It’s nothing wrong or lesser to be bi. So I’m curious about the denial.

    Most people think totally straight doesn’t include guys being naked in bed together having sex at the same time on the same bed. Even if that’s with a third person rather than intentionally with each other. Nor that it includes guys making out with each other and talking with girls to compare how enjoyable, sexy, appealing, it is for both him and for her to deeply kiss the other guy.

    When asked, very reasonably from the evidence, “So you two are bi?” what’s the aversion to saying something like, “we’re straight and we also do a few things with each other, especially when we share that with a hot chick we’re both into?”

    On to the story.
    “Girls can be self defeating.” So can guys, from the same story.

    The girls wanted magic time with guys who Just Get It.

    The two guys and the two girls all had the same goal. Have as much flirty fun and sex as possible with a hot someone of the opposite sex, while being true to one’s rules.

    Looks like usual short term rule for XBT is, don’t risk losing the girl by pushing too hard. But the long term rule is, if there’s already abundance, don’t worry about the risk of losing the next one.

    Short term rule for the girls is, have lots of fun with hot guys. But the long term rule is, don’t do anything on this list of things that would make things wrong for the friendship with the other girl.
    A list of rules that XBT sees as going against what would make the girls happier to get more of what they want. And some rules that he can’t even figure out what they are, so of course there couldn’t possibly be anything there to understand or respect.

    “striving just to make the interaction as fun as I could for all of us.” “you can much more easily roll back confidence”
    Except that he lost out on the fun of continuing all the fun in bed together, and the long term of bringing these girls into his world. Actually, he couldn’t easily roll back the overconfidence.

    “I gave her my phone and said for her to text me and write her name…”
    At that point SHE WAS IN, welcomed to the Sex Trio Club as an equal participant. Only time & date logistics remain, and here’s contact info for that.

    XBT closed the sale with Lauren. Then he immediately tore up the page and said, by the way now it costs a lot more. Also, he’s no longer a fun dude with the magic of Just Getting It, he’s a pitchman and he’s fishing for compliments. Pay more, get less that what we just agreed on.

    “… and three things she liked about me and Tom.”
    And now SHE WAS BACK OUT, given a homework assignment. Just like a job interview that piles on more and more confrontational questions about why should we let you work here.

    Now she’s told that she’s less valuable than the guys, who are still Evaluating Her Pending Application, Maybe We’ll Get Back To You Some Day. She expects something so non-magical for a job. But as the condition of more fun flirting and sex? C’mon!

    Now it’s the buyer’s fault for being unhappy about that? Is it really Female Arrogance that she didn’t like that power-play bait & switch, that loss of the magic time with guys who just get it?

    Round Two, she’s up for everything XBT had going on, until it came to the kiss. But strike two, again he’s no longer a fun dude with the magic of Just Getting It, pulling the rabbit out of the hat. Now he’s a beta supplicator pulling back the curtain on the magic table. Gimme a spotlight right into the hidden drawer, please. The rabbit’s about to poop, here you hold it while we negotiate how much you appreciate the sacrifices I’m making to pretend it’s all just magic.

    XBT’s rules got in his own way to “make the interaction as fun as I could for all of us.” I see XBT has a blog post that markets transfer wealth from the impatient to the patient.
    He could have been patient, waited to ask the three things challenge until clothes were off, the threesome was on, the three things rewarded with kisses or more. But he undid the close.
    He could have been patient, enjoying the vibe and letting the kisses with the girls happen after they were comfortable that they could be slutty with him, or that they could be with him without having to feel slutty. But he pushed.

    Of course, it’s the fault of the girls for being random and inconsistent.

    What did the girls probably say to each other about all this later? Maybe…

    Lauren: “Sorry it was a bust at the Log Cabin tonigh, babe. God those two guys are hot. It would be so great to have a threesome with them. But then XBT got all weird. Like he was hiring an office assistant, not just having fun with a new lover. Then he wanted to negotiate why I owed him a kiss. So I had to be like, I’m so out of here.”

    Sara (Sarah?): “Yeah, I know! He was weird about my not being on Feeld, like I had to sign up with Slut Central Online to qualify for him to bang me or something. And then he did that whole, we’re negotiating a corporate deal here thing with me too. WTF’s wrong with just having fun together and see how it goes!”

    Lauren: “Yeah, right?”

    Sara: “And saying they fuck and make out with each other, but they’re not bi?!”

    Lauren: “C’mon. And something didn’t feel right about that. I got the vibe they were hiding something. Like maybe they’ve done combo Feeld dates together, that part’s real, but it’s not really how they met. I dunno, just didn’t feel completely honest, y’know? Why lie about something like that?”

    Sara: “And then he asked about how you and me get along. But when I started to tell him, he just rolled his eyes and zoned out, like I was muttering some crazy shit.”

    Lauren: “Yeah that was like so rude to you. That’s why I got my coat to get us out of there.”

    Sara: “I’m glad you got your coat then. It was time to get out of that weirdo scene.”

    Lauren: “I don’t want to sort through these two thousand guys on Feeld on my own. Why don’t you look at them with me. There’s gotta be plenty of other guys who’d be down for a group sex thing, without getting all weird on us.”

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Looks like xbtusd has already replied, but I’d read it at least partially as, “You don’t know when you’re going to press the girl too far.” If you don’t “press” enough (which can mean a lot of things: assertive, teasing, intriguing, withholding), the girl gets bored. If you “press” too much, she might snap, or snap back. Different girls and different situations require different levels of “press” or engagement.

      I’ve run into girls, usually with kind of weak constitution/psychology, for whom any more than a small amount of teasing or press is too much. I’ve run into girls who are very bossy and insistent, for whom almost any amount of “press” is too little. Most ofc live in between those poles.

      I think xbtusd is optimizing for his own amusement, and for the girls auditioning for his world. Some won’t like that, and that’s okay. That one already has a Feeld account, is a good sign.

      In the moment, the optimal move often isn’t obvious, like poker (a cliched metaphor, but a good one). You play the hand according to your read/feelings at the time. Only later do you find out if it works / “worked.” Partial information game… which is why many game stories are interesting… it’s guys trying to make sense of the partial information they’re getting. Almost always, there’s what the girl really thinks and what she shows on the surface, and the two may differ substantially.

      IMO, girls, much more often than online guys realize, screw things up for themselves, something that I don’t see online game guys talk about much, cause few live abundance reality, it seems. To my mind, consensual non-monogamy can build into abundance reality far more easily than the guys who are “spinning plates” or “doing booty calls” or “friends with benefits” or “hookups” realize. I’ve been reading game blogs and similar for too long, and a lot of them are missing the “abundance reality” perspective. For the girl, if she is too rejecting, aloof, whatever, a lot of the better guys will pull back. Which is where some of the girls who are like, “Where are all the ‘good’ guys?” come from.

      I like that, “Text three things you like about me” move. Reminds me a bit of Torero’s “bring a gift under $3 [one pound, whatever]” bit that he talked about sending girls.


      1. Also, re: text me three things. There is the content, and then everything else. In the context I had built up a lot of positive vibes, so I was taking a risk and cashing in some of the social capital I had built. It was also delivered with a shit eating grin and a fun playful vibe. If the delivery was like an application to work at McDonald’s it would have been awful game. If it had been delivered at the beginning of our interaction it also would have fallen flat.

        And for context, here’s what she wrote to me in my phone:
        “Hername attack! You beautiful girl!!!! What’s up!? I loved meeting you at nameofbar, you looked so hot in your nameonherhat and glasses. BABE ALERT. Not to mention that winning personality. Full package. See ya soon”

        So I would argue, that even though it was too much and killed the vibe a bit, it fit into the broader playful cocky funny repor we had built. I think she liked that I pushed, and I liked that she pushed back. That said, it was a moment where everything almost fell apart.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. The $3 gift is brilliant.

        “like poker (a cliched metaphor, but a good one). You play the hand according to your read/feelings at the time. Only later do you find out if it works / “worked.” Partial information game… which is why many game stories are interesting… ”
        “No dance is perfect because you’ve never danced before. I think it’s how you respond in those moments that can be the difference maker.”

        That’s what makes this all so fascinating!

        For some repeated types of situations…
        with similar types of people, who have similar goals…
        there are some things to do that usually work well…
        some things to say that are usually well received.

        In romantic attraction, seduction, relationships, a lot of these things that Naturals do directly go against what we’re socially taught, what many people say with loud certainty.
        The guys who aren’t intuitive Naturals figured out a lot of what does work. And sometimes, why.
        Picking out the parts that already work, as I discard the negative conditioning… that’s still under way for me. For this part of life, and for some other parts of life too.

        And then beyond that, there’s the mystery of each person. Each of us has our own identity, our own experiences, our own rules about life. So you never know! Different calibration for the different girls. But even in the same interaction there’s still ups and downs.

        “And for context, here’s what she wrote to me in my phone”

        LOL that response is a keeper!

        I like the dance metaphor. What you’re both saying reminds me of a public speaking class. We were told, “Remember, the audience wants you to succeed. They’re rooting for you. They want you to inform and entertain them. If you make a mistake, they might not even realize unless you point out your mistake. Just keep going.”

        “Glad to hear some of our thoughts have offered different perspectives on what’s possible.”



  2. First off, hilarious comment, really enjoyed the pushback! The dialogue at the end is fucking hysterical. Drop a way to contact you next time if you’re open to it.

    No way to pronounce it. You can ignore the ending and just think XBT. It means something to me but reveals a bit about me so don’t want to share.

    The denail re:being bisexual was relevant to our conversation with her. She was wondering if maybe the two of us were “together”, and we informed her no we were not. We were two straight guys down to have a third female. No denial, just seems like a relevant bit of information? Or maybe you take issue with a binary 0 or 1 definition of sexuality? In that case, if we’re using the Kinsey scale i’m probably somewhere between a 1-2? There are threesomes where the dudes are hooking up and ones where they’re not, and the latter is what we were offering.

    Homework assignments can be fun. Imagine if a hot chick said, go home and write out a list of the ten things you want me to do to you. You’d be psyched. But I like your framing, if it came off like a dull task that was now her paying more for something she thought had already been purchased, then I agree what a buzz kill! That’s the fun of conversations, there is no truth, there is only how one feels about an interaction. Cocky funny can be intoxicating, or it can come off as arrogant. There are a million little variables that change how a person receives it. There were times in the conversation where she loved it, and times where I went too far. Better calibration on my part would have been ideal! But on some level, if you never push too far, you probably aren’t going far enough. Hard to just “know” the exact spot to hit with a stranger.

    Not sure I understand the bit about magic?

    Definitely was not going for patience there. Wanted to keep pushing and was totally fine blowing things up because I didn’t care about the outcome!

    No ones “fault” really, turns out we were not a match in terms of what we were all looking for! My view is they would have had much more fun if they had a non-monogamy frame, but perfectly ok for them not to, I just think they’re getting in their own way of achieving what it is they actually want and are limiting themselves because of latent issues between the two of them that are not spoken. My view -> I think they’ll be much better off if they start talking about what’s really going on when they go out looking for dudes, but I could be wrong and maybe this is them having clear boundaries and a strong friendship which in that case is understandable and worthy of respect!


    1. Glad you enjoyed it. It looks like Red Quest posts a lot more often than you. I’m going to do something different with my email setup this year. When I get that sorted I’ll include it in a comment here, and ask Red Quest if he can pass it along to you. Would that work?

      “Or maybe you take issue with a binary 0 or 1 definition of sexuality?”
      That makes sense. I don’t. But I read her question and your answer in this way. I guess that little moment wasn’t that big a deal for either side. Thanks for clarifying.

      “Not sure I understand the bit about magic?”
      Oh, I meant the chick idea that “The connection we felt was just like magic. We didn’t have to explain anything ’cause the guy Just Gets It!”

      As an analogy, for most magicians if they show how the trick’s done then the magic show’s over. You talked about the usually hidden “rules of the game.” Like a magician who reveals his tricks.

      “The Great Oz recommends that you observe the man behind the curtain as he pulls the levers.” Seems like your “hold on, let’s talk about the rules here” was that kind of magic-killing moment for these girls.
      Does that make sense? Sorry to be confusing.

      “There are a million little variables that change how a person receives it.”

      That’s the biggest takeaway for me. Here are some guys who’ve spent years to get really good at building instant rapport with random chicks. Even with that, in a mostly fun night, just one misplaced line and it can all come crashing down. A world away from an established love relationship, or a friendship, where you can put your foot in your mouth all the time, and that’s not a problem.

      “it would have created some issues in my relationship if I actually fucked them, so I wasn’t even set on doing it, instead I was interviewing them to see if they’d be worth it.”
      So that may be what felt off to them about the vibe? “He’s hot for us to get together, but he’s also stand-off-ish. Is he really The Hot Lover or The Chilly Evaluator?”

      I’m poking at details here, with some snark tossed in for fun. But it’s with a lot of admiration for what guys like you, Red Quest, and rpDad have figured out. Blackdragon’s also an inspiration for me. Krauser was partly unfair to him, since Caleb made clear it was the end of his original blue-pill marriage that got him started on his journey. Not fair for Krauser to complain that before the journey began, Caleb hadn’t gone anywhere. The picture of Caleb’s leading lady in Dubai did call into question Caleb’s accuracy on a scale of 1 to 10. I don’t feel that invalidates anything he’s learned about sustaining multiple, ongoing long term relationships.

      When I emerge from Monk Mode later this year, it will be with some very different ways to think about relationships than I used to have, from way back when. I appreciate what you guys are sharing.


      1. Re:email, sounds good! Yea, it’s his blog! I’m a guest.

        Re:magic. Makes sense! I definitely killed the moment.

        And yes, so easy to make it all come crashing down is one way to look at it. I think in general it’s like a dance. You want the dance to keep going, and you’re vibing, building energy, and then sometimes you step on their foot! No dance is perfect because you’ve never danced before. I think it’s how you respond in those moments that can be the difference maker. Do you freeze, or just pull back a bit and go back to the basic steps to build up that momentum again. She wants you to lead well so as long as you don’t lose confidence in yourself it’s almost always recoverable. You’re just feeling each other out.

        It’s entirely possible they picked up on the fact that I was only halfhearted in my performance. Maybe if I had gone in with purer intentions and true desire that would have changed how they responded.

        Glad to hear some of our thoughts have offered different perspectives on what’s possible.


  3. Ed Seykota has a quote about trading in one of the Markets Wizards books “Everyone gets what they want out of the market.” That quote occurred to me when I read this. My sense is you were on the fence about fucking the 6 and decided to prolong the interaction for entertainment purposes. It reads like a case of purposeful though not necessarily conscious self sabotage. I think Magnum said women can sense it when you don’t genuinely desire them. I’ve certainly been in that position. It ends one of two ways. Me getting blown out.. or bad sex. I have found that unless I really want to fuck a girl, I end up doing myself a disservice by trying to game her. It brings an inauthenticity that can be corrosive, and risks ingraining poor habits that come out when I’m with a girl I really like. This could be completely the wrong take. Perhaps the prospect of a foursome was enough to vault her over your attraction threshold. That doesn’t seem to work for me. a 6 is a 6 no matter what she is willing to do. Not that I am out here laying 9’s. Like all moderately successful players 80-90% of the women I’ve seduced were 7’s.


    1. First off, wow what a crazy reference. I love those books, and that’s my favorite quote from all of them. That whole interview blew my mind. In this case I don’t think that’s what happened but I definitely think that’s a thing. I texted with her a bit afterwards and she said that her friend wanted to go home and that I misinterpreted the suddenness of the departure. I think she was lying, but I think it was some awkwardness between the two of them. Regardless surprise of the century she pitched me a 3some with another dude she met on feeld. Not sure that’s appealing to me given I’m not that attracted to her and a rando dude I don’t know really is pretty unappealing to me. But either way surprised the shit out of me given how poorly that night ended. But agreed for sure about going into situations where you’re not fully into it. In terms of going home with someone I’m much more cautious than just making out at a bar and having fun. I was legit having a ton of fun with her…the friend not so much and did get off on the challenge of “breaking” the friend and getting her to have fun.


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