“The cost of sexual liberation” for women

“The cost of sexual liberation” for women fits right into the player dynamics commonly discussed around here, my favorite bit is…

Meanwhile, the female sexual emancipation Greer pursued has delivered a bonanza for every live-in-the-moment modern-day Dean Moriarty with the looks to enjoy it. In the world of online dating, sex is even more abundant than it was for Dean Moriarty: one twentysomething friend tells me that “photogenic” male friends find female attention so abundant that some are “quite sick of the attention.”

The agency of women is little discussed, of course… if women wanted to, they could choose steady, reliable guys instead of exciting players. They don’t, though, not at least until the “epiphany stage” that Rollo Tomassi writes about. Women love competing for hot, high-status men… any time an individual woman decides not to do that, she’ll avoid the “Dean Moriarty” men (no idea who Dean Moriarty was).

As a young teen I remembered hearing older people say that girls want a “nice, good” guy who will take care of them. This troubled me, because everyday life readily demonstrated that girls liked jerks and jocks (not much has changed between then and now). Guys interested in pickup and being players reconcile what is commonly said about women’s desires with what (and who) real, live women do. Women strongly prefer hot, tall, exciting guys. This is observation, not value judgment. Most of us have seen how women behave around men they find hot.

It’s still (somehow) amazing to me that the top things a guy can do to sleep with more women are work out, practice his social skills, and get a gig like bartending. Hot women prefer buff guys with social skills over the guys building civilization and society. At one point in the development of civilization, I think there was a higher degree of consilience between “guys building civilization and able to care for women and children” and “guys women sleep with.” Today that consilience is mostly absent. That may be bad, but top guys can f**k an unbelievable number of attractive chicks. Speaking of that, I need to go deadlift and do shrugs, stop pussyfooting around on the keyboard. Some chads are born, many are made.

In human sexuality, women are collectively the choosers, men the chosen. Who women choose speaks to them. Every hot woman has a phone full of guys who’ll wife her up, but she doesn’t want them. I’ve been both the guy she wants and the guy she doesn’t. I know which is better.

As men, we can study the mechanism that is female biology and psychology and figure out how to access more of what we want. That is the game. Welcome.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

9 thoughts on ““The cost of sexual liberation” for women”

  1. It takes a lot of angst to break yourself out of your own mental prison and see the red pill.

    Like you, I’ve seen both sides and actually experienced them enough to grok “I’ve been both the guy she wants and the guy she doesn’t.”

    I think on some level, even young women know that their lifetime happiness would be maximized by marrying a promising beta at 23 and starting to have kids. But they can’t just bring themselves to do it: there are too many bright and shiny distractions in every single moment.

    I think it’s similar to my own struggle to stay in awesome health. Gym + green vegetables + egg whites + baked chicken + good sleep. It’s an easy recipe! But my harder to do in reality. Everywhere: junk food, alcohol, parties, peers pulling you somewhere else. Even a woman in my life who is attracted to my body pulls me in the wrong direction by leaving candy lying around everywhere and trying to get me to drink wine with dinner. A woman subconsciously wants to beta-ize the alpha she’s attracted to. Every day I struggle! It’s not fundamentally different from their struggle to stay off the cock+Instagram carousel.


  2. The breakdown of community and family has lead to people living in markets with few resources of their own. At one point trust and stability (tightly related) was much higher, and a family/group/community gave something of a safe harbor. Now marriage, for example, no fault splits and no trust that will last. Few have a harbor.

    Like managing career (short term stints often required/rewarded, have to protect and grow value while trying to find mutually beneficial—yet likely time limited—arrangements) one must manage sexual and friendship relationships. Majority have little value to succeed in pure markets, and typical advice quite poor and anti-advice.

    Women have combo of extreme sexual value when young, intense evolutionary desires, and no community or family providing barriers to guide (let alone access to reasonable people to talk things out with). Little surprise they fuck up, often literally (to higher sexual market value—ensuring no relationship). Guys likewise fuck up, often by not developing value when young (often due to depression when at low sex or career value and seeing no path out—arresting them in that state).

    Developing a career, and interpersonal relationships, in what is increasingly a market (versus community) is difficult and mistakes can have long lasting negative consequences. As one ages capacity to weather mistakes decreases and ability to actualize potential draws down. Many squander the capital of youth only to wake up middle aged and low value, investing and growing their remaining value properly is increasingly important as they have little buffer or time left. Realizing that we are adrift in a market and must manage ourselves, with both near and long term risks and costs/benefits, is the first step that many not getting until late in the game (if ever).

    Look at Red Quests career advice. You will find it on point with his sex advice. Why? Both are markets, it’s the same advice with details depending on the market. ‘Kids’ are released into adulthood without basic understanding of markets, not knowing our society has largely degenerated into a market, and not understanding the implications on how one must navigate and survive in them.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. “consilience”: “an agreement between approaches”.
    Consilience is an obscure word which probably disrupts the flow of your statements for most readers.
    “connection” or “correspondence” would serve your two statements here better than “consilience”.


    1. Very true, but, at the same time, goal on red quest is to be aspirational, to be better, to learn more, to go beyond… and if that means “consilience” and Ed Seykota references, so be it.

      It seems to me that “online” culture has too much pandering and too little aspiration, so around here we’re going to try to do the opposite. Foolishly, stupidly even? Perhaps, maybe even probably. Sometimes it’s useful to dare to be stupid.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I thought it was reasonable, and also true… in many senses and for many purposes there are better words than consilience.

        Personally I enjoy hearing other points of view and ideas, if they’re smart (https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2018/11/25/disagree-but-be-smart-about-it/), something I share with xbtusd… somewhere a few posts back, him and someone named “mr. casual” (I think) have a fun debate in the comments. There’s infinite space for stupidity on twitter and reddit, too little space for non-r^tards to talk to one another IMO. There’s a post coming up on the “communication” shibboleth that so many women are into, and in that post there’s a long paragraph comparing Russia’s upcoming invasion of Ukraine to male-female “communication,” and xbtusd was like, “Dude, cut that paragraph.” He’s probably right about that, I put a disclaimer in front of it, but I left it in because I have some maniacal qualities.


  4. tbh I had never heard the word ‘consilience’ either but that’s a plus not a minus in my book. We are all here to learn from each other and I would have given anything to have these resources in my 20’s. One of the great things about RQ, RPD, Magnum etc is that so often they will put into words what I have been thinking but in a way that clarifies or brings it into a ‘logical’ front of mind thought rather than an ephemeral subconscious feeling. Frank’s comment is a great example of this. It’s not a coincidence Rollo et al coined the term ‘sexual marketplace.’

    I believe a common thread in RQ posts is separating reality from narrative. In this respect women are a natural target. (what they say they want vs what they really want) but the same applies to almost any modern social issue you can think of. The media can support and promote trans issues all it likes. The vast majority of people find fully grown biological men taking a few hormones and dressing like teenage girls so they can dominate women’s sports and use girls bathrooms on a spectrum that runs from laughable to disturbing to outright disgusting. On the other end of the spectrum there are all the trad cons making doomed to fail attempts to recreate a past that never really existed in the first place. The common thread is the cognitive dissonance necessary to maintain the illusion. I see this section of the blog world as providing tools and information to survive and thrive in the world as it is. Not as I would like it to be. ‘it is not the strongest of the species, nor the most intelligent, it is the most adaptable to change.’


    1. I’ve learned a lot from reading other guys, including the ones you mention, and talking to them, and that is why I tell guys to write their player journey, https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2020/02/07/write-your-player-blog-its-an-advertisement-but-not-in-the-way-you-think/, the benefits are often not the ones I expected or anticipated.

      Yeah, “Frank’s” read of red quest is fascinating, on the mark, and makes me think things I’d probably not have thought otherwise. I have no idea who he is and don’t think I’ve communicated with him before. There’s an element in life of “you get back what you put out.” I’m trying put out “improve, get better, think, think for yourself, increase the overall knowledge in the world.” Frank’s comment would seem consistent with that effort, and I will probably break it out into a post of its own.

      I’d also say I don’t know everything, not by a long shot, but I think there’s important value in being part of the network, https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2021/09/07/join-the-network-and-create-the-reality-based-future/

      Liked by 1 person

  5. More related to this post.. A 24 year old girl I’m currently talking to asked me to watch a movie called 365 Days on Netflix. It’s about a Mafia war lord type who literally kidnaps a girl and holds her hostage for 365 days during which he tries to make her fall in love with him. With the agreement that he will set her free if she does not. In the first act she sees him murder a guy in cold blood, yet by the third act she has agreed to marry him and is pregnant. Tragicomic acting and terrible dialogue aside it truly is a lesson in red pill dynamics.

    At heart I am one of those reliable civilization builder type guys. But I have learned through the red pill and personal experience where that gets you in the sexual marketplace. So over the years I have developed an avatar that I use in a kind of dating A/B test (real me/pretend me) Real me gets serial monogamy with 7s I enjoy fucking for a year or two until we both got bored of each other. Without fail when the relationships ended I never heard from those girls again. Pretend me gets ‘adventure sex’ with 7s, sometimes 8s and one personal 9.

    Once they realized I was not the settling down type, they would drift in and out of my life. I do not promise monogamy or a long term future. I let them come and go, never initiating reconnection or asking anything from them. I never give them drama. They can call me after 2 years out of contact and I talk to them like we spoke yesterday. They call/text to check in, wish me happy birthday, (young girls seem to always ask me my birthday, maybe an astrology thing) ask advice, perhaps vent about a boyfriend if they are dating. If they are single and horny they ask to hang out soon. Code for please come and fuck me. Likely not surprising to anyone reading this, the way these girls treat me, talk to me, act with me etc .. shows a level of respect, submission, deference to my wants and needs that real me never gets beyond the first month or two of dating.

    Liked by 2 people

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