Women write “No ethical non-monogamy” (ENM) on their Tinder profiles: is it true?

I’ve been seeing the screenshots make the rounds: a woman’s online dating profile says, “no ENM” or “no poly.” The most interesting part of those profiles isn’t whether she’s telling the truth… it’s that enough guys have figured out ENM for women to preemptively declare they’re not into it. I’m sure some of those declarations are sincere and they’re looking for their babydaddy. RPD thinks we’re still in a situation in which most women will say “no” to ENM… I think there’s some truth in that point of view, maybe a lot of truth, but it’s also true that, pitched properly, a lot of chicks will be up for it.

How? It’s not the guy being like, “Let’s go to a sex club, maybe we can fuck some new chicks.” Instead, it’s the guy whose social world is intertwined with ENM world (THE GOOD GIRL depicts this). The guy meets a new girl, she likes him, they sleep together, the guy makes risotto for her on the sex date, they date a bit, she meets his friends. His friends are cool (like your friends are cool, right?). They’re hosting parties. At the parties, a lot of the people take mdma, but they’re cool, functional people, not drug idiots. The girl will take some, or, if she doesn’t, she’ll be around people having the time of their lives. There’d be a mini-orgy in one corner. Some girl would tell your girl, let’s call her Marcia, she’s pretty… and the two girls would make out.

You, the guy, and the girl you’ve picked up, are hanging out with other cool people doing ENM and they’d invite you and the girl to fun costume-party orgies. The girl wouldn’t see this as some weird thing a bunch of weird strangers are doing, she’d see it as something your cool friends are doing. The social infrastructure would be there to support her. If it’s cool and normal, she’ll go for it. If you had a cool crew of friends doing it, she’d probably already be down. If you have status/coolness, the other stuff will come. Lack those things, and the other stuff won’t, or won’t easily, come. As the networks of cool people doing this stuff spread, the practices will spread. People are desperate for community & connection, but they instead opt for TV and “social” media. Guys who build, create, and maintain genuine community, including non-monogamous communities, will reap rewards from that.

Think like this, most girls will say “no” to most guys’ offers of sex. But girls will say yes to the right guy’s sex offer, often happily and lustily (I’m convinced that a lot of guys reading here have never been invested with a girl’s love, adoration, and devotion: it’s an intense experience when it happens). The trick is being the right guy. If you can loop girls into cool social networks where people have group sex on Saturday nights instead of getting drunk in bars, girls will do it. Girls who say “no hookups” in their online dating profiles will hook up with cool masculine guys, girls who say “no ENM” will do it with cool masculine guys w/ good leadership skills and social networks.

In the abstract, yeah, if you ask a girl, “Would you do ENM?” then a lot will say “no.” Is that what weird vegans are doing? Ew. It’s like asking a girl, “Will you f**k on the first date?” The right answer is almost always “no,” in the abstract. She’s not that kind of girl! The true answer is “it depends.” In ENM, if a cool, masculine guy who she likes introduces her to his cool friends, who she likes, and says to her, “My friends are having a costume and dance party in two weeks, and I have to warn you that it might get pretty intense… we should go, but we can leave if it’s too much,” then she’ll feel some FOMO about watching THE BACHELOR on Saturday night instead of going out w/ friends. Context, context, context. Context is scarce, which is also why so much “men’s development” AKA game advice “doesn’t work,” because the amount of context involved with a given sliver of advice is so vast… in trying to describe what I’ve learned how to do, I’ve wound up writing 550 posts and two books and still it seems like there are many things I’ve not described, and that I can’t describe. Not easily. Deceptively simple game advice like “assume attraction” or “open indirect” or “be confident” has a huge amount of context and practice attached, to the point that the advice, devoid of the context, is almost incoherently vague. Life is hard.

A lot of guys interested in learning better seduction seem to be lone wolves who lack social skills and infrastructure. It’s possible to meet women without those things, via cold approach, but seduction is often a team sport and a network-driven activity. In nightgame this is especially true. Red Quest talks often about friends and networks, topics almost entirely absent in the rest of the game/pickup universe. Those blindspots tell us much. I get the sense many guys interested in game & seduction matters never played team sports, never started companies, never had to work extensively with others. People who do teams, are different from people who don’t. Non-monogamy and sex parties probably work better for me than for random guys because they’re integrated with the rest of my social world. A new lover meets my friends, who are going to a party this weekend, and we should come. Instead of us meeting a bunch of strangers at a random event posted online, she’s got the social world already there… a very different proposition from a pure cold start. Every guy has to start cold, unless he finds a woman already involved with or interested in these things already.

Maybe I stress community and friendships too much. If I do, it’s because they’re important, but also because I see too little talk about them. Almost all sex is foremost a social act, particularly for women. Trying to understand sex without social is like trying to understand physics in the year 1500, yes, there is some preliminary and accidentally correct information, but it’s jumbled in with a bunch of incoherent nonsense and factually incorrect matter.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

4 thoughts on “Women write “No ethical non-monogamy” (ENM) on their Tinder profiles: is it true?”

  1. I like the fact that you bring up context. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is contextual when it comes to seduction, game, and women. Most advice is horrible because it isn’t contextual. 👍

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    1. Often, there isn’t enough context to judge whether a piece of advice is right or wrong. It’s in that nebulous gray space without sufficient detail to evaluate.

      We have a lot of the blind leading the blind, although the deaf talking to the deaf might be more apt… then, the second deaf guy repeats to a third deaf guy what he thinks the first deaf guy said.

      I don’t know when I first noticed this tendency, but once spotted, it explained much of what is wrong. Guys lack the attention to understand what they’re doing/reading. I follow guys writing player blogs much more than guys on other forums because the longer form lets some of reality’s complexity come through.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I’ve never adroitly “converted” an anti-ENM girl into one that’s cool with it. The only overtly anti-ENM types I’ve interacted with have been very rabid about it (at least rabid about open marriages). Usually these have been girls who recently ended a shitty marriage/relationship and vomit their emotional baggage on me as if I was their ex. But I’m bringing it up the OM on the 1st date or prior to it (for local girls), since I hate informing girls about it after a few sex dates… that’s never gone over well for me.

    Your example of cultivating a relationship before ENM is even introduced (and introduced in a good environment) makes sense, but how would you approach this if you’re steady with someone?

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    1. If she’s staunchly, firmly, ideologically against it, it won’t work, particularly if she wants to make a baby and has put that as her top priority. I haven’t run into many firmly, overtly anti-ENM types, cause I think the issue is still relatively new.

      >>but how would you approach this if you’re steady with someone?

      “Tell me about your sexual fantasies.” Ideally they include exhibitionism and/or group sex. If she returns the ask, say you’ve always had some exhibitionist tendencies and think it would be fun to try going to a sex party. Tell her it’s about the two of you, see if she’s game for it.

      If she’s still firmly against it, she may not spring.

      https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2021/11/15/the-good-girl-a-novel-is-out-today/ has much more

      Like

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