Lots of swings and lots of misses (FR)

[This happened before coronavirus shut the world down, but I didn’t put up the story right away.] 

Went to a party without a date… but I went with friends who vouched for me and functioned as dates. They brought extra girls (who weren’t appealing to me, physically or intellectually/psychologically, but that happens). The girls took some drug that made them very friendly.

I knew a few girls at the party, including this one (again)… and she is now ROUGH. When I first started seeing her I’d have given her an 8… by the time I wrote about cutting her loose she was more like a low 8/high 7 and now she is like a 6… not fat, exactly, but weird rolls of stomach fat and fat legs. I saw some girl going down on her and thought “She is only 26 and looks awful.” Her life is a trainwreck too, and the fall over a short period of time is a testament to the destructive power of drugs, even “legal” drugs (of the wrong kind and taken too frequently). I feel bad for her, because all of her relationships, whether with friends, lovers, roommates, etc., have been severed, often abruptly and in a difficult way, by her behavior… and she doesn’t appear to understand why. I pity her. Drugs and other problems are ruining her life and career. I may check in and see if she’s trying to get off them.

Met a couple who didn’t know each other well and had met recently… a couple who don’t know each other well and aren’t officially dating means that the girl may be up for grabs (something that I don’t think I thought to include in the book). The girl was somewhere between a high 6 and mid 7 but I liked her vibe… she was bouncing with excitement and pleasure when I met her, and enthusiasm is infectious, like coronavirus, but less dangerous. She’s also a kinky slut, and much later I picked up her contact details, and her dates’s.

Did a ton of spanking & flogging. Few people there appeared to know what they were doing with BDSM and the fact that I’ve developed those skills seemed to set me apart. Lots of audience, which started with me spanking my friend. Didn’t seem like anyone else brought floggers.

Closest shot on goal was a girl, Alyssa, who I spanked and who LIKED pain. I spanked another girl who was super cute, with a newbie boyfriend. Great to spank but said she has high pain tolerance (she doesn’t). Then her boyfriend wanted to be spanked, for some reason, to know what it was like? Not my favorite thing to do but it seemed like a moment when I ought to just go for it, so I did, and explained to him what I was doing, what I think about, how I check in with the girl, etc. So it was like half spanking, half tutorial. Couldn’t tell if I was getting bi vibes off him… I hope not. But the main way people learn this stuff is peer to peer, so I did some education? Don’t fully know how to interpret this, so the question marks.

Alyssa… I really worked over her ass and thighs. Long warm-up. Lots of flogging, eventually leading to full-on backhand, like a tennis player’s backstroke, with a paddle. The buildup allowed her to access that part of her. Most guys rush girls too much at every level, from the first kiss to the foreplay to the f**king, when girls want guys to move like 50% slower. Not so slow as to be languid, but more deliberately than most guys go. Be assertive enough for her to know your desire but understand chicks need more time than most guys give them. Alyssa did a lot of kind of annoying topping from the bottom, but I didn’t know her and so didn’t call her out on it. Spent a long time working her over, and interleaving touching gently and some kissing. Very passionate kissing. After, I asked her for sex and she said no but that she wanted to see me later. Later, we went to another area and talked, then made out some. I moved her around some, which she seemed to like, and set her up to grind. It was erotic, feeling her hips move and the sharp intakes of breath as she got going. I got about half hard, which she could feel, then she backed off again, saying she wasn’t into sex that night.

Some more negotiations followed and Alyssa didn’t want to f**k, Although she didn’t say it, she knew exactly what I was trying to do by heating her up, and she didn’t want to do it and only wanted to make out. She negged me by saying that I seem “goal oriented.” I laughed… she’s not wrong. Didn’t have a great response, honestly, because agreeing made me seem a little slimy, and the opposite wasn’t true and claiming not to be isn’t consisten with what she’d seen of my personality and skills. She wanted to know if I was going to stay and I was just like, “I’m tired and heading home.” Maybe could have played last cock standing but I believe the gold seam was played out and produced no nuggets, just a few flakes. With Alyssa I think she knew what was up, what her strict limits were for whatever reason, and that was that. She lives out of town, so I doubt I’ll see her again. Will follow up today but I’m not optimistic. I told this story to one player who said

There’s a weird negative vibe on chicks who are a “no” to f**king. It’s different from LMR. It’s like you can feel their mindset is set to No.

I lose interest pretty quickly if she is not at least open to f**king.

Part of the annoyance is when you sense on a limbic level that the purpose of her not f**king is due to a power dynamic and not because she is not ready/in the mood. It’s a huge turnoff.

I would offer a counter take on this… Alyssa wasn’t open last night but might be in the future. She was a forebrain override girl, one who liked that I had met a lot of people, spanked a lot of chicks, and demonstrated social competence and BDSM competence. There weren’t a lot of unoccupied cute girls. Transparently losing interest too fast is a mistake… it gives bad vibes to the girl and also f**ks up future events. I have her # and will ping her. A few weeks or months from now it could happen. She’s a good person to invite to random events when I don’t have anything else going on.

It’s bad to get the reputation as the guy who chases girls and then does a 180 when they won’t f**k right away. If the player abruptly pulls away once or twice, okay, lack of chemistry but it’s an undesirable reputation. There’s always the short play, in the moment, and the longer play, over time and over reputation. The discipline to make the longer play will lead to greater success, I think.

At the end, talked to a couple, the guy less hot than the girl, and the girl just gorgeous. Huge breasts on a very small and petite frame. I would’ve loved to f**k her. They’re relatively new to the world, so I took some contact info. Unlikely to go anywhere but some seeds have been planted. She’s the sort of girl who might look “okay” in street clothes and then turn out to be stunning naked.

Fair # of mismatched partners with girls much hotter than the guys.

Kinda miss the girl from the last big party, who I saw again once and has gone silent. Beautiful sexual chemistry with her, more than with anyone since Short Dancer, probably. Such quick sexual chemistry. Am I the same for her, or am I just some guy she f**ked? I’ll ping again in another week but going anywhere with her is doubtful. Relationships end, so I hope I’m top of mind when/if hers does.

The last couple events I have attended without a direct date, and that is doing this on hard mode. Harder mode anyway. Bringing a date leads to a higher probability of success.

I mean to write less but the inner voice speaks too loudly.

Learning

* Chat with people.

* Demonstrate competence. I learned how to do BDSM from a combination of online tutorials and guides and in-person. If you’re at an event and see someone who is doing it well, watch what they do and try to imitate it. Even ask them how they learned or what they were thinking about doing (after they’re done… never interrupt. Watch but don’t interrupt.)

* Play the long game.

Recent additions to the sex club guide book

Two recent revisions to the free sex club guide book, both inspired by conversations with guys who read it.

Breeze wrote to me, “Before I read your book, I thought sex clubs to be drunken, bacchanalian parties filled with drugs. Your descriptions make them seem much more like friendly social gatherings where people have expert manners. That actually makes a lot more sense because there needs to be ‘hidden rules’ in place for this sort of ecosystem to be sustainable.” Exactly. Almost no large and public sex clubs allow drunks or people who use drugs to excess, or to the point that they violate other people’s space and desires. Sex clubs only work to the extent that women feel safe at them and to the extent that men know their dates won’t be molested. Take away the safety and the club will swiftly die, for good reason. People who violate the rules will quickly be ostracized (again, for good reason).

Think of rock climbing. Rock climbing is inherently dangerous. The people who do it successfully (and don’t die) are often very conservative about equipment, weather, and training. They make absolutely sure their safety gear is top notch and in good working order. If they see signs the weather is turning, they turn back, even if the summit is close. They train hard to consecutively reach more difficult mountains, glaciers, or rock faces, and no one smart starts with Everest, K2, or even Denali. Something similar can be said for sex parties: the people who do it successfully often plan their evenings and dates. They decide what their limits and rules are for a given night. If they want to change the rules for their next date or club, they can. They check in with their partners. If something seems off about new partners, they disengage. And the people who do sex clubs successfully look for others who share the same ethic. Drink and drugs that impair one’s ability to function properly and to respect others are not going to work with these needs. Manners and etiquette, however, help people structure interactions. Being too mannered is stultifying, but not being mannered enough is rude or confusing. People who are successful in a given situation learn to operate between those poles.

Another, not connected to the one above, occurred in a private chat and Magnum suggested it be stated explicitly.

Let me also pause to say this book throws a lot of data and ideas at newcomers. Pull back from the barrage of new ideas and remember not to overthink the experience, despite me dumping a bunch of data. the sex club and party are supposed to be fun and relaxed. If you get too in your head, too into trying to decipher every moment and motivation, the club won’t be as fun. Your girl wants to have a fun adventure with you. Think back to high school or whenever you first started dating. If you sweated every detail, every moment, every word said to the girl, you were likely too anxious to achieve flow, and the girl could sense your anxiety. Do enough planning and thinking to make the event happen without driving yourself into over-worry. The first time you try anything new, it’s not going to go perfectly. This book distills ten+ years of the game… I have noticed subtleties that won’t always be important. Harness the excitement and ride that. Don’t let fear be the mind killer. 

If you go enough, you’ll become part of the scene and community: sex clubs and sex parties will become a lot more fun when you make friends who also regulars and connect with people on a level beyond a purely sexual level. Some of my friends and acquaintances have found employees, employers, business partners, climbing buddies, gym buddies, book clubs, and all manner of other, non-sexual connections through non-monogamy. For most of us, meeting tons of strangers is stressful, and trust doesn’t occur immediately upon meeting. It takes time to build, for good reason, since a lot of hours of face time and listening are necessary to evaluate other people (I mention later in the book that players have discovered most women, most of the time, need 4 – 10 hours with a man before sex. Sex clubs can shorten that time, but a lot of swapping happens after two hours of socializing and one hour of people f**king the partner they’ve brought, getting us close to the four hours many women want prior to sex). As you develop bonds with other people, the clubs and parties will become social and sexual events, and they’ll be more enjoyable because of those bonds. Like any scene, getting into it will take some time, but ongoing, repeated interactions are more satisfying than one-offs. People who think the sex clubs are purely about sex may be surprised to find that they’re as much about socializing, if you’re doing them correctly. 

They’re both subtle ideas but I think they clarify a bit of the cultural practices you’ll find, along with popular misconceptions. Lots of people may have been turned on and titillated by that Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene, but it has very little to do with how most real orgies happen. A guy could probably try to re-create that Eyes Wide Shut scene… but he’d probably be paying the girls.

In the real world, young and hot women dictate the dating world (contrary to what shrieking feminist harpies claim), and the whole sex club scene is built around the needs and desires of women. Women need more context and comfort for sex, and sex clubs make those things happen by balancing danger/excitement with comfort/rules.

A lot of businesses are starting to shut down or scale back due to COVID-19, giving me too much time to tinker on the book, which won’t be of use to people during the outbreak, since sex clubs will be among the first venues to shutter.

Dating sex positive and non-monogamous girls… and a ramble about the game

A player asked about the last FR… I told him that some of the women at that sex party were quite hot, but they were also looking for guys who are already good at what the women want… like, if you’re a guy and you’re not willing to do some mfm, they’re just not going to be super interested, and some women who’ve had a taste of what’s possible will not date vanilla guys anymore. Instead they want to date guys who can manage jealousy and who have underlying sex skills… those guys are not readily available commodities… so when hot women find guys who can make these peak experiences happen, some of them are happy to have found their male unicorn. Lots of guys will pretend to be non-vanilla and non-monogamous in order to get the lay, but few of them truly are, so women get tired of trying to separate out the pretenders from the real thing.

The player said

Can you just clarify this? These chicks wouldn’t date a vanilla guy just because he has not had experience/not into MFM? Really? I’m trying to gauge the value of MFM in my mind.

The hot women I’m thinking about would likely be open to dating a vanilla guy who is genuinely up for MFM, but a lot of vanilla guys will be excited for FMF (obviously), yet they’ll balk at the other way around. They don’t reciprocate, and reciprocation is a key aspect of human social life and bonding. A lot of guys are also sexually open minded in theory, but when the time for practice arrives, they change their mind and want exclusivity, etc. One woman I know searched for a primary partner and dated like 4 – 6 guys from the internet (not simultaneously), all of whom said they were cool with non-monogamy… then told her they wanted an exclusive relationship. She is a poly s**t so she dumped each. A lot of kinky/non-mono women find vanilla guys useless, cause it’s easy to waste weeks/months on them, just to discover that in reality, no, the guy doesn’t really want to be non-monogamous, although he’s fine with some fmf threesomes… just like every guy straight guy alive.

On the other side of the equation, some monogamously-inclined girls don’t want mfm. Why? If a woman really wants a conventional monogamous boyfriend who is going to be into her, mfm sets that goal back, and most men who will go for mfm will also seek fmf… a small number of guys are into hotwifing/cuckolding or whatever it may be called, but those defective guys are pretty rare.

Continue reading “Dating sex positive and non-monogamous girls… and a ramble about the game”

What to learn from famous guys, acting over the long term

I’m interested in what we can learn from famous guys, the actors and athletes and musicians, and how they structure their romantic lives, and you can see that interest in rambles like “When you’ve done it all, what then?” Those famous guys can get every kind of woman they want, and a lot of them spend a couple years laying out a lot of women. But… most of them wind up with long-term girlfriends and most of them even marry (then a lot of them divorce, like everyone else). Adam Sandler, to pick one example, could still be in the game as much as he wants… instead, “Movies shoot in summer, so he can bring his kids to set. During the year, the workday is arranged to allow him to drop them off at school and pick them up.” This is not a guy trying to max out his body count. Lots of other famous guys, guys who could have whoever, also don’t seem to be trying to max their body counts. What’s that mean?

I’m thinking about this because being in the game is many things, and one of those things is amplifying normal ups and downs. The highs can be very high but the lows very low. And I think about the highs because, as with drugs, loving the “high” too much can be dangerous, particularly for older guys. Building a peer group is important for almost every person, and guys into the game seem to also be alienated loners, often struggling with our own pasts, presents, and personalities.

There is something to the idea that “Age is just a state of mind.” To the idea, “You’re only as old as the woman you feel.” There is something to those things. But there is also something to the idea that, over time… doors do close. Lives change. People change. Peer groups change. Paul Janka hits this on the Torero podcast, and he says he got out of the game for a bunch of reasons, including that his friends were hanging up their pickup spurs and getting married.

I don’t really have a place I’m going with this. I’m thinking aloud. I also think that some people, guys and women, like the sex club thing as a couple because that allows the intimacy and partnership of a relationship with the novelty and ecstacy of the chase and new partners. The most successful couples in that world still put each other first. I bet a lot of the Hollywood guys, the musician guys, who get into long-term things have a little something on the side now and then, but they put their primary person first. The famous guys have problems with loneliness and meaning, like the rest of us. Maybe worse, in some ways, because someone always wants something from them (women know what straight guys are after, too). I know that if I stop hustling, very soon, no one but my real friends and my family want anything from me. Parts of the human conditions are real dark. We can try to understand it, but we cannot overcome it.

Think about girls, too. There is a lot of red pill talk about hypergamy and girls behaving badly. There’s some truth to that, too. There’s also some selection bias. I don’t want to repeat the whole thing but… “Guys who have successful relationships with functional women don’t seem very likely to end up writing for the Red Pill. Guys who get cheated on, dumped, etc. seem much more likely to end up reading the Red Pill, looking for answers, and venting on it.” “The women who react to street pickup are probably not a random sample of women, so drawing conclusions about all women can be dangerous.” Same with the women you meet online. I know some women, some of them very hot, who have never done online. I also know some women who did online for a very short period because they wanted a long-term relationship and when they found a guy who they like and who is reasonably within reasonable parameters, they stuck with him. Those are the kinds of women who are repelled by player vibes.

Game, at its best, allows human connections to flourish, “I will confess… the two ‘bottomed out’ periods of my life coincided with me backing off of game. I’m not certain the lack of game CAUSED those periods, I don’t think that was true… but game is an organizational force in my life, and I realize the utility there.” At its worst, it is guys trying to extract value, and extracting it from women who know what’s going on and are maybe attracted to that kind of thing. Trying to maintain that positive mindset can be one of the toughest things in game… and in life, in the face of adversity, rejection, etc. It’s something I struggle with. One way to contextualize struggle is to look at what others are doing and how they are dealing with the same conditions. Rich famous guys are different in many ways from normal guys, but not totally different, and we should think about what they choose to do.

All dogmas are to be avoided.

“Winners continue to win, and winning builds structural advantages”

That’s what a guy in finance was talking about on a podcast… I didn’t keep track of the original location, sorry, but the finance guy’s gist was something like, “In America, we have these narratives that we’re given from childhood. People are still religious, but we don’t really take our popular stories from holy texts anymore. We take them from Disney movies. The most common narrative when you’re a child in the United States is the little guy coming from behind. But when you get into investing, or any highly competitive arena, you realize that winners continue to win, and winning builds structural advantages. You’re disadvantaged if you’re small. This is not a romanticized story.”

The applicability to game is obvious… to come from behind takes a supernormal amount of work, and it takes someone who wants to buck trends, be different, and concentrate all of his resources on winning.

Most people can only win in one field. I have been talking to a guy in the game who also wants to improve his financial position (a good goal). But it is going to be very hard for him to do the game in depth and to dramatically change his financial life. The guys who he sees winning, financially speaking, have usually been laying the groundwork for victory for many years, and doing a lot of work to get to where they are. “Good, high-paying jobs” is a highly competitive arena where it is hard to come from behind, because other people have a variety of structural advantages built over years.

If you listen to rich, successful guys talk, a lot of them credit their wives for a lot of their success. Red Pill fanatics will reply to say those women are all cheating, they’re all waiting to divorce the successful man and take his money, they’re conniving, etc…. and while those things happen, I don’t think they’re the most common path for a successful, older rich guy. More commonly, a good woman will dramatically increase a man’s ability to succeed financially because she’ll believe in him, she’ll take care of the house, she’ll deal with the kid stuff. When he’s feeling down (everyone feels down sometimes), she’ll support him (there is a difference between sometimes feeling down and making your wife or girlfriend an emotional tampon). She increases a man’s ability to focus on other things, like his business and developing his skills. And of course for most guys, hunting for sex consumes lots of time, energy, and focus.

(Did you see the important word “good” in the paragraph… “a good woman…” a good woman enhances a man’s ability to achieve other goals, while a bad one is a burden.)

I am not suddenly pro-marriage, because marriage is a high-risk bet. If it blows up, the costs are sky-high. If it succeeds, however, the financial, time, and concentration benefits can also be very high. Some high-risk bets are good… this one seems net bad to me… and if a good woman enables a man to concentrate, talk to any divorced guy about what the divorce legal process does to his concentration.

Being good with chicks also has structural advantages. I know undersexed rich guys who can’t get laid, for all kinds of reasons… they are smart, but they have terrible bodies. They have oriented their minds towards technical fields, so that they can’t tease women, lead women, or connect with women. Women’s psychology baffles them and seems like a world of smoke, mirrors, vapor, and hidden trap doors (which it is… players just learn to navigate and get night-vision goggles). Guys who really learn the female mind can do very well at f**king chicks.

Obviously, a guy with a lot of money can use that to buy personal training, buy personality coaching, or buy chicks directly, but that last one has a bunch of downsides and the first two still take a lot of time and energy, and no guy who is 37 is going to get his 20s back. He may “make up” for them in some way, but time goes on direction. Rich guys may not have the structural advantages the captain of the wrestling team had… or whatever example you want to use. Almost all guys who nail a lot of hot chicks have some kind of structural advantage. Could be a job that introduces them to a lot of hot chicks. Could be good looks. Could be exceptional charisma. Could be sex clubs (or, as I think of them, an undervalued market opportunity that most guys don’t understand… investing in undervalued assets is how all those hedge fund guys got rich).

In popular narratives, the ugly duckling gets the girl in the end, who chooses him over the oafish jock. In reality, the oafish jock usually wins the pretty girl. “You’re disadvantaged if you’re small.” And in popular narratives, the ugly duckling often isn’t that ugly. We love to see the little guy come from behind. In reality, the solution is often literally to get big, by hitting the gym. Chicks respond to hot guys, more than they do to pudgy guys. Guys are more driven by pure body than chicks are, but chicks are too. A lot of guys absorb lessons from pop culture that are actively wrong.

Nailing hot chicks is a highly competitive arena with lots of subtleties, for most guys. There are naturals, yes. The guys who do it well (for a time, in most cases) often devote themselves fully to it. I have spent time (more time than I should have) explaining many of those subtleties in one area.

What to write about in your game/player blog

Guys have asked, “What should I write about in the game blog?” (I said originally that the game blog acts as an ad to collaborators, among other things… check out the link). Write about whatever is going on and whatever you think about it, positive or negative. Most players who develop any skill will have some positive and some negative experiences, and readers respond well to something approximating authenticity. Write to teach yourself (it works) but also write to inspire other guys in their journeys… I retarded my own growth by not writing. Write too for others: over time, search engine traffic to your game blog will go up, leading to a virtuous cycle of men teaching men, and you never know when the right guy will stumble upon you and achieve enlightenment. The horrors of modern feminism happened because millions of women talked to each other about how to extract resources from men and avoid responsibility, and today men are too busy with video games to understand the world we live in. We need to teach other.

So if you did 10 approaches and they all failed, write about that. If you just had your first threesome, write about that. If you aren’t getting the things you want, write about that. If you are getting something you want, write about that. Write about the journey that brings you to where you are today and what you are doing this week to get you where you want to go. Write about the world around you. Few experiences are 100% positive or 100% negative. The guys who write overwhelmingly of one or the other either have skewed lives, or their psychologies are skewed, or there is something else going on.

Frustration and negativity also depend on a lot of things… like, if you’re a male 5 chasing female 7s, you’re going to have a hard time. Judge guys based on where they start and where they get to… if you’re a male 4 and improve yourself to a 5 and snag a 6, that’s victory, IMO. If you’re a male high 7 and are slumming it with 5s, that’s a thing you can do, but it won’t be that interesting to others. A well-known professional actor’s game blog wouldn’t be very intersting either… imagine, “I had to choose among a Victoria’s Secret Model, a starlette, the hottest waitress in LA, and another model, but I had to get up for a shoot in the morning, so I just had a threesome with two 9s.” Not problems most guys can relate to. If you are making some progress but not getting laid, write about that.

If your experience is 100% negative frustration, and you have volume (you don’t live in a small town/city), I don’t know what to say… you might lack any number of things… there are probably game checklists out there. The usual advice about lifting, fixing your diet, developing generic social skills without cold approach pressure… those things all apply.

There’s a saying in game, “Say what you see.” If you can’t think of things to say, talk about whatever you’re seeing and what you think about it. If you can think of any general lessons, talk about them. If you run a/b tests, describe what you find.

I started writing on Reddit, figuring I had a couple of things to say… then it turned out I had more to say… then I realized that many of the readers, voters, and moderators there are… who they are. Not all are fools, I want to add, but enough are fools that it’s impossible to explore the contours of non-monogamy there, and I am also not a fan of being beholden to the capricious. I began writing here, propitiously, a bit before Ms. Slav appeared, and she was an unusual experience: every guy has a thing about “this one girl who is different,” but I will claim that I have enough experience to say she is different.

Write on your own platform, not on Reddit or in a moderated forum, because you are harder to silence on a website than on someone else’s site. Forum quality declines to the level of the persons willing to spend enough time to moderate it. That rule explains much of what one sees. Independence is valuable.

A lot of guys, too, don’t really want to be players and just want to get a pretty and acceptable girlfriend. That’s a fine goal. It probably means the game blog will be truncated, just as many men’s lives are truncated by emotionally and psychologically murderous women. Or by emotionally, physically, and psychologically glorious women, who limit a man’s desire to chase strange. Just practice and tell us what happens. With enough practice you will become good, relative to where you started. I realized that I am the only person writing, who I am aware of, who has approached non-monogamy in the specific way I’ve been doing. Your revelations, which you teach yourself by writing, might also be useful to other guys. I know of at least two other guys who are seriously doing something like I have been doing, and another 10 – 20 who have read the book carefully and are thinking about it. If those other guys write their own stories, we’ll get rolling towards something like a movement. I just checked and about 30 ppl found their way here from search today. 20 – 50 will find their way here tomorrow. How did you find your way into the community? Probably from search, from a random link somewhere… I have links to all these guys, who all do something to shape the world we live in…

* Krauser PUA

* Dalrock

* Roy Walker

* Days of Game

* Rollo Tomassi / The Rational Male

* Magnum

* Good Looking Loser

* Tom Torero

* Red Pill Dad blog

* Kill Your Inner Loser

* Reddit Red Pill

Don’t write under your real name. Legal names make you more vulnerable to the mob and the surveillance state.

Good blog writers show themselves to be engaged, learning, and practicing their trade. Bad ones reveal themselves as followers and fools. Interacting with chicks a lot generates the best ideas/stories: you see something, you hear something, you report back on it… it’s like trying to be a reporter who goes out and talks to people on the scene versus one who never leaves the office. One person is going to generate a lot of good insights and the other person is not. Bogus players write platitudes about cultivating “inner game” or write about how “not to back down” or give repeated, fifth-hand advice about “body language.” Guys who have something valuable to say write about this one girl they were talking to and how that went.

Interacting with chicks generates the best material.

Bring back knowledge from your journey and share the knowledge. Some of the writers above disagree with each other… some of them I often disagree with… all of them I think advance things a bit. Go advance things.

Rollo Tomassi Rational Male post

More reader questions… a batch ask about Rollo and The Rational Male… I think Rollo is a considerable improvement on the default state of the average guy. An average guy will see his life and knowledge improved if he reads The Rational Male book. Like in the one about “levels” of game/development, my view depends on where the guy is and what he needs… Rollo is above the median, so that’s good for a basic guy.

But.. you knew a “but” was coming… most of The Rational Male is more culture war than I’m interested in. I’m glad someone wants to prosecute culture war on the behalf of embattled men… though I personally want to do other things… I don’t spend time with angry feminists and I’m a bit more interested in guys talking about the real mechanics of real-world dating (and sex of course). About the practice and about specifics of how to make it work. That is what I encourage guys to blog about. I want to live more immediately. Yes, feminism is bad… yes, feminism has infiltrated some workplaces and many HR departments… in my everyday life it is never as bad as it’s depicted on the Internet, and I want to write about what I see in my life.

So Rollo is most into culture and culture war and hypergamy. I am most interested in game and f**king. Rollo wants to raise the level of the average guy, I think… I want to talk to guys who have game or want to develop game, the guys who want to get to the top. If you’re interested in getting laid a lot and understanding individual female psychology, I’m really talking to you. If you’re aiming to talk about large scale social forces… I am less into that. Obviously there’s some overlap between the two groups but the focus is different.

It’s pretty rare for me to link to Rollo because his material is fine but it’s rarely on the topics most vital to me. There’s a sidebar link to him because, like I said, I think his book is useful for some guys, and it covers material I don’t. I don’t agree with everything in it but that’s fine too… it’s better than the male average and that’s good enough for me. If you know an average guy, it is good to slip him a copy of The Rational Male book, particularly if he’s going through a tough breakup or divorce and is ready to understand reality. I can see giving the right guy the book.

Nash’s statement on Rollo… he’s more anti-Rollo than I am. If you want the anti-Rollo statement, read it.

I don’t think Rollo’s work describes “top guy” worlds or will help guys get to the top, though they will help average guys who are totally asleep or misled. For guys with game fundamentals, who want to reach the next levels, he’s not optimal. So is he “good” or “bad?” Depends on the guy and his needs. It’s nice that someone is attacking the bad feminist culture… I just don’t want to be that guy myself. It’s also not good to get stuck in that world… it’s better to get into a world where a guy is getting laid, building skills, etc.

A lot of the Internet consists of people announcing that something is 100% s**t, and something else is 100% genius… I don’t really do that binary thinking… there can be things with some positive aspects, some with neutral aspects, and some with negative aspects… including me… I wouldn’t expect anyone to agree with 100% of what I say… if someone did, that would be odd.

I have some theory and philosophy posts… but most of what I write germinates from some experience or other. Something happens, I talk to someone, I do something, then I write about it. That is, I believe, where the best material originates.

Festivals, parties, etc. and the network’s power

Festivals, concerts, the parties that go with them… I read almost no guys writing about them online. So… let’s talk about what happens, within my limitations, because I don’t have a lot of experience with music festivals and concerts, since they don’t match my personality properly… but I know people who do these things and can infer their power. I think the guys who get laid the most, with the hottest chicks, develop a network or ecosystem of people… the people who go usually have friends or make friends, and I think a lot of them have access to drugs that make them more open to meeting people (including chicks) and to offer access, just by starting with basics like, “What have you seen tonight?” “Are you girls rolling or what?”

Also, exposure is one way to get chicks. If you see a chick at two or three different venues, a logical open is, “Did you see at [place]? I think so.” Even a little bit of familiarity can pry open a closed chick. I have seen guys at parties just go by and say “Hey, what’s up?” to almost everyone they see at a party… then next time they’re like, “Hey did I see you at [venue]?” They’re planting lots of seed. At festivals with thousands of people this works less well but even among festival people I think the same faces will show up again and again.

Most importantly, many girls are in a flirtatious and open frame of mind… outside of their “everyday” mode. Party drugs (ecstasy, molly) can make people open to doing things they might not do otherwise. Some chicks like coke. That seems like less a sex/love drug and more of a… I don’t know what to call it.

The best people seem to have good logistics and things like afterparties planned and ready to go. The guys who do really well here seem to have broad, shallow networks. They meet lots of people (men and women), collect lots of numbers, and then keep in contact with people and facilitate connections. Many guys will have lists of girls and ask “Are you going to yyy venue/party this weekend?” Sometimes the hookup happens there, sometimes on a date after, etc. Lots of girls fall away… but the power of the network is high. Because it’s about the network and a momentum strategy, most guys aren’t going to show up and get laid… they are going to need to learn the world and the world’s rules, and meet some of the people in it. The winners building winning systems.

Drugs… are dangerous. They can be addictive. It is fine to like them but awful to need them. The other problem with drugs, apart from addiction, is that they destroy a lot of time. Many people after molly/ecstasy need like 48 hours or longer to recover. Alcohol is like this too of course. But if you come to rely on these things or do them too much, they will compromise your other goals in terms of fitness, finance, career, etc. I have seen men and women turning 30, 35, whatever, and realizing that their life consists of a series of parties and drug experiences and sex experiences, but… there is not much to show for it.

Most lives need balance. If you are compromising your other goals… you will suffer for it… the quality of your life, family, career, and development will suffer for it. Drugs can be an aid to reaching other people but they can also be very destructive. It’s also easy to get into dangerous credit card debt and have your financial life fall apart.

One thing… I have been at the outskirts of these worlds sometimes… and I can see their power but also their selection bias. The chicks in them are selected for being sex-positive s**ts. So other girls… may become unavailable to you or just less interesting. But some of them… are also good.

Sometimes in real life I’m really attracted to chicks I wouldn’t find appealing online. And that’s true of chicks too. Real life has seduction/feedback/eye contact mechanisms lacking online. We’ve spent our whole evolutionary history evaluating each other in the real world, and like 20 years evaluating each other online… then we are surprised when problems emerge from online.

Guys writing pickup material were almost all social retards for most or all of their lives (a lot still are). They are introverts trying to work with their introversion. Their loner nature limits their social networks. So the things normal guys do for girlfriends and sex, don’t apply to most of the pickup guys. Because of their personalities, they’re blind or semi blind to some types of ecosystems.

These guys doing festivals etc. also have compelling pics, often with pretty girls, and use those to judiciously seed social media accounts. The average guy who spends his days playing video games, watching porn, etc., doesn’t have any of that visual social proof. He literally doesn’t spend enough time with women to understand them properly. His weaknesses are a kind of reverse Matthew Effect. As he gets weaker, he gets weaker, instead of stronger.

Also… if you meet real women… most of them are not like the resentniks online say they are. Yes, there are some bad ones. Yes, many of them will take free value if it’s offered to them (as many guys do). Most of them… are struggling. In ways different from the ways a lot of guys suffer, but not that different. Talk to them enough and you will see their struggle.

There are many good things about pickup seduction and red pill guys. There are also some blindspots, like with any movement/ideology. I want to talk about their positives but I also want to surface some of the blindspots. The world is huge and any person’s place in it tiny. We all mistake our realities for reality.

I’m not 100% sure how to get a guy totally outside the festival/concert/etc. scenes, into them. Just start going? Ask your friends (you have some of them, right?) to go? On this blog I often talk about how to get antisocial loser newbies going (example), but this is one area where I’m not sure how to do that.

One thing to ask is what value you’re bringing. Are you ripped? Do you set up photobooths? Do you have drug connections? Do you make connections among different people? Do you have an afterparty set up and ready to go? Guys should ask these questions and have good answers for them. Chicks bring value just by showing up and being hot. Guys… should try to answer this question. Just being there is okay but I think the better guys go past this.

In-person meetings are just more powerful and immediate than online meetings… online used to work… now everyone is online and it doesn’t. A common theme of my writing is that guys with good sex lives have good social lives. Usually that means minimizing the modern online bullshit of video games, TV, and social media. Top guys develop skills and abilities and social lives that are consistent with getting laid. This is why so much of the seduction conversation is hard… it’s almost never one single thing that gets guys laid… it’s a bunch of things. I have been trying to explain the things I do and I have realized that it’s not one thing, it’s a bundle of things.

Exceptional effort (that is effective) = exceptional results.

Like everything else in life.

Some recent experiences have me thinking about this (I hadn’t been able to capture this facet orf what I do until those experiences). And just observing the world around me. Almost no guy I know seems to have gotten the best sex life just via online. Maybe the ones who are super attractive and don’t need it that much.

Even within game… the best conversations are happening outside public spaces. I didn’t understand that when I started writing this blog, the best insights wouldn’t be posted publicly, they’d come from chats, emails, etc. If you are only living on the public side of the game world, you’re missing out.

The three-date “rule” before sex

Players (and, more often, wannabes) talk about the three-date “rule” before sex… guys will say, “If you don’t have sex by the end of date three, drop her.” I think this rule is too strict, so instead of mindlessly following it, analyze the mindset and experience this “rule” comes from… guys who are used to being taken advantage of, and from guys who are probably taking girls on expensive, elaborate dates (like dinner). Those guys worry that the girl is just tooling them for money and attention. If you’ve presented yourself as a provider guy and are spending $50+ per date… the girl might show up just to get free meals… like a squirrel in the back yard will keep showing up to eat birdseed, instead of going through the arduous process of hunting acorns. Smart and functional girls know that nothing valuable is truly “free,” but they might like the attention and have nothing else going on, so they’re happy to absorb free meals and some male attention, even if it’s shitty low-quality attention. Guys have also heard stories about fast pulls of hot girls and then think every girl can/should be pulled and f**ked fast… my own stories like this one advance the “girls will f**k fast” narrative.

This is the wrong mindset… Krauser’s memoirs, for example, are full of stories about five or more dates before sex… some hot girls need time. Instead of chasing speed, apply a simple test to the girl and the dates…: 1. is progress being made? and 2. Do you enjoy spending time with the girl? (I may have subconsciously stolen these from someone else, and if so sorry… I am not claiming to be the first guy to talk about the subject at hand…). You could add 3., does she seem to be tooling you for value? Some girls are intensely pleasurable to be around, and some girls are a chore whose presence might be okay if that’s the road to sex but otherwise have little going for them.

Experience will help you feel out each situation. Mr. V wrote “+1. Was able to get past LMR this time! Prob worth a lay report to dive deeper/lessons.

Now, imagine a girl breaks up with you, then you fly 8 hours to see her, and the very next day she fucks some other dude…

Last night I was that other dude”

Good work Mr. V. Another guy predictably wrote, “Hats off to your patience, I would have given up after 3rd date.” Mr. V replied with the text I mentioned, about progress and pleasurable company . Mystery’s 7 hour rule is an average. Some girls can be had in less time, some girls need more time. “Progress” will mean different things with each girl, but I’d count something like kissing, making out, touching her body, her touching yours, feeling her responsiveness, etc., as progress. If she’s ice-cold on the first date and ice-cold on the third date, then it’s time to roll off and let her go.

If she’s running hot and then cooler and then hot again, maybe she’s deciding between guys, or has something else going on. Some girls will also be ready to f**k but then get their periods, or get colds, or have something else that gets in the way and interrupts momentum, but, if the guy is patient, it will happen. If the guy throws a fit because she’s not willing to f**k on his schedule, she’s learned something useful and negative about him.

Clearly each guy should do what he wants to do. But some hot and wonderful girls take longer than others… they have not been my main study, but they can be good. Patience can be good. I also don’t buy into the idea that the longer a guy has to wait, the better the girl is. Some quality girls are horny and want it now, some need to know the guy better and spend more time with him. How fast she goes is not a perfect indicator of how much she likes you. Some girls who are so-so about a guy in the beginning will warm up to him over time.

The quality of girl will also vary with how much energy you put into dating her. I might go for a lower-quality girl who is convenient and available… but I wouldn’t put a lot of effort into chasing her… this seems pretty obvious to me.

Mr. V may have a longer field report incoming… expect a link when it appears.

The game’s endgame and picking up a girl at a private party

Got an invite to a huge private sex party… remember how I wrote, “game can be thought of a little bit like chess in that for good players the first 5 – 10 moves are memorized calls and responses and gamed out… the interesting stuff happens midgame.”? This is an endgame story, making it less valuable than mid-game stories, but I wrote most of it for a private group, so I figured I’d tell the rest…

At the party, I talked to a gorgeous, short girl who used to be a high-end escort and probably had income that put her in the 99%… not a great conversationalist or was on drugs… some other things about her stood out but are too private to share… asked for kiss when she left, and she said “maybe later.” In normal dating asking for the kiss is a bad move, but in this environment it’s the way to go.

Did an MFM with a couple I know… read Yoylo for an MFM example story… I have also laid out a threesome bluepint… this one happened because I’ve known them both for years… she is a solid 7… he is probably a male 8… he finds it hard to find the right women, and they are put together well. He’s had some of mine before, so it’s all good… I have spoken many times about reciprocity and balanced equation, and our equations are well-balanced. There is not a “game” story here… or if there is, it is buried in the years… we are all casual friends who spent some time catching up, then had a theeway. Very intense one, too. Whatever “game” was involved happened long ago.

Much later, I was about to leave and crash, but I saw this girl and had to say hi to her… so I got to chatting with this chick and she had great vibes, nice but not astonishing face, and just the best body. 25 or so… we chatted for a while and she noticed my paddle… asked if I would spank her… of course, baby… we found our way to a more private back area, away from the crowds, and she was so cute (great, top level super feminine energy) and responsive. Some spanking/paddling, light choking/hair pulling… things moved fast and she was broadcasting horniness… so I kept going forward, checking in with her at appropriate places… and wow. I didn’t think I could rise to the occasion but did it (sometimes verbalizing “I’m not sure I can have sex again” helps me relax into it), and sex with her was amazing… amazingly fun. Time between “Hi” and f**king was… 20 minutes? 30 minutes? I don’t know. It was almost too fast, even for me… I think she’d been marinating in the environment and socializing for a long time and yet hadn’t been approached, or properly approached (later I found out that she knew a guy there, a friend of friend, who had been chasing her, but she wasn’t into him). Or, right girl, right time? I want to give her an 8 due to her body just being packed in all the right ways and feeling fantastic but probably a high 7. Everything about her felt and seemed right. Instant chemistry is rare. She seemed almost grateful to have me inside her, which is a turn-on. Hope she comes out… we talked about that, but she might be an “in the moment” girl who disappears later. I hope not.

Like I said, it happened almost too fast… I wanted more time to play with her body, to get to know her, but her sex temperature was so high that I felt I couldn’t not. We talked about some logistical things… “feminine energy” isn’t discussed as much as it should be. Hers was off the charts. She was like crack. Other girls should take lessons in feminine energy and sounds from her. F**king her was great. She reminded me of Short Dancer, and it has been years since I have felt that way.

Did not see the former sex worker 9 again.

I’m also a re/tard in some ways… my stated goals are different than what I pursued last night, so there’s that.

I wasn’t going to turn this into a blog post at first, cause I don’t think there’s anything new to learn from it… but then I realized that that is the lesson… I’ve been building ecosystem/connections for many years, and staying in pretty good shape, and it came together. Maybe I could point out that even s**ts often want to know the guy/guys they’re sleeping with… more often than not they do… the first woman came around not because I was a random but because I wasn’t. Overall I think I’ve contributed more value to the community than I’ve taken from it, and that was reflected in the private sex party. It was reflected in the invite itself. It was reflected in the people I knew there. It was reflected in the fact that I knew how to be once I was there, and knew where to flirt and where not to. Where to push forward and where to hang back. The interesting things happen in the midgame… but this was the end game… the value had already been built. The reputation was in place. The beautiful 8 hadn’t been approached, or properly approached, and she was ready, so I went for it… I was wandering through the orchard and spotted what might be a ripe fruit… I climbed up… checked it out… turned out to be ripe… and it was good. I had the skills she wanted, and she… well, she had what I wanted. The fruits of the network.

Tried not to drink too much and succeeded… exhausted the next day… I feel a little too old for this shit in some ways to be honest. I still feel kinda off track… my forebrain and hindbrain continue to disagree… am I turning into a chick or something? Hope not.

This FR is late game…. it’s about the building of value and discovery and connections over many years. Very few guys can just walk into something like this… you have to know the players involved. The mid-game for this kind of thing can be read in detail here… if your version of the book is more than six months old, get the latest one, because I’ve been updating it in response to other guys’s questions and observations… thanks to other guys who have sent me their learning and their field reports… they have made the book better/stronger than it would have been otherwise. FRs that deal only with the first couple interactions with a woman often aren’t interesting because they’re pretty well gamed out. FRs that cover end game, like this one, often aren’t interesting because there’s not a lot of value building or practice taking place… the value building took place in the past. I’d learned to be in the right place at the right time with the right attitudes and that was rewarded. This is a study about reaping wheat, not about growing it (much harder to grow than to reap, or to eat the food made from the wheat). I was surprised by the girl at the end and the speed with which it happened. But the conditions for that had been created over many years. I’ve had this happen before… but this girl was just f**kin hot, and she’s relatively to new to the scene/community. In some ways I got lucky, but you know how the harder you work, the luckier you seem to get? It’s like that.

Magnum has different FMF report too.