Evolutionary biology underpins game

Evolutionary biology underpins game. I started reading evolutionary biology even before Neil Strauss wrote The Game (and in The Game he cites David Buss and other evolutionary biology writers). I credit evolutionary biology with giving me some game awareness from an earlier-than-average age. The Red QueenThe Evolution of Desire… even Donald Symons (old-school shoutout), once I saw how differing incentives shaped average behavior for men and for women.

So. Another Riv post, this one about a date that either went wrong or never went right.

some people will say, “if she went on a date with you, the bang was yours to lose, and so you fucked up” — and i recognize that there is some truth to that.

Some people will say that and they are wrong. Girls go on dates for all kinds of reasons and are prone to change their minds for any reason or no reason. The more you experience women, the more you see what Good Looking Loser calls “sexual availability.” You may call it something else. Point of his post is:

The outcome of your interaction is already determined, in a lot of cases.

Yes. In most cases. All a guy can do is try to improve something in his game and then accept that he will always have losses.

Look at it from a biological perspective. Men always want sex because successful sex may lead to a child. Women don’t always want to have sex because children have substantial costs. If she rejects one guy for some capricious reason, another will come along next week. Understand how men and women evolved to not have completely identical goals and preferences and suddenly female behavior makes more sense. Or “sense,”  ha.

If we had a school system worth a damn everyone would be exposed to micro economics and evolutionary biology early. Take the concepts of supply-demand, shortages, and evolutionary biology and apply them to sex, culture, and dating, and suddenly lots of things make sense.

Most guys don’t know shit about anything because they don’t read enough. Harsh but true. Get off the Internet and into the library when you’re not opening. The more a guy interacts with women, the more apparent their capriciousness and randomness becomes. Stoic philosophy was developed by guys. Not a coincidence. Stoics acknowledge that any given person can only control himself.

Since most women don’t even understand their own internal desires or states, the likelihood of there being an intelligible reason for her rejection of a guy who’s generally done things right is low. And for her that’s okay. Someone else will pitch her tomorrow. That’s why guys pitch a lot.

The major exception to this principle is a guy who is stratospherically valuable. If the king wants it he gets it. In modern terms, famous actors, musicians, etc. will automatically sway a “no” girl to a “yes” girl. Not 100% of the time, but a lot more than I will or you will.

For normal guys, social proof can have a similar function. What might turn a “no” or “maybe” girl into a fast “yes” girl is seeing another girl get that man. Suddenly, he’s scarce. Scarce goods and services carry high prices.

This won’t always work but it can. There are girls who are mature or internally congruent enough to not let other women’s valuations sway their own. But those girls aren’t so common.

Women also have emotional modules that protect them from cads. Women simultaneously want a guy who other women want but who won’t abandon them once they’re pregnant. That’s a tricky line to walk and explains why their behavior often looks erratic to guys, who just want more sex with more hotties.

It’s also why women will produce both “shit tests” and “comfort tests.” Guys who are new to game and bad with women have never experienced “comfort tests,” so when they start the game they become too much of a jerk and scorch leads that could pan out with a little less asshole and a little more deftness.

Women have multiple conflicting internal desires, and those conflicts manifest themselves in ways that seem strange to guys. Once a guy beings to understand the underlying mechanisms, he can start to accept the situation.

I’m rolling off topic here, but the important point is that women’s decisions are often arbitrary and beyond a certain point trying to analyze why they make a given decision becomes pointless. If you get zero traction with a hundred women something is probably wrong. If you get total traction with ten women in a row you’re not trying hard enough. Somewhere between those poles lies game. Game is the art of imperfect information.

I also think about whether guys doing game are more likely to meet incoherent and incongruent girls. Girls who really know that they want a guy and a family stat don’t put up with operator “game” guys. They look for provider guys (not a negative thing IMO, just a description) and if they  know what they’re about they get one. They have a coherent plan that they genuinely want and they execute it. Lots of girls think they want this because society tells them to want it, but many don’t actually want it, so they come off as incoherent and incongruent. They say “I want a nice guy to settle down with” and then have sex with a random two days later. Guys notice and think, “Oh, girls are dumb.” Not exactly. It’s an internal conflict and desire that shifts from day to day and sometimes even hour by hour.

Girls who really like sex and are sex positive (not a big group) aren’t as much into “game” per se. Their beliefs (sex is fun and we should have more of it) are congruent with their actions. These are pretty rare.

Most girls are neither looking for providers nor sex positive. That’s why their stated beliefs often don’t match their actions and why guys think they look flakey, wishy-washy, uncertain, and incoherent. All that is really an outcome of not having interrogated their inner belief structure or what they want out of life and men.

I should also note that how you present yourself will affect how girls present to you. I’ve written about this before. I do the sex-positive, zero-judgement thing. I try to bring girls to sex clubs and BDSM events. That loses me some girls but gains me an entire universe of next-level game that I haven’t read about anywhere online among pickup or manosphere guys.

I can’t believe I have to post this

I can’t believe I have to post this, but here goes.

Riv had or has a problem because he has or had no good leads. In response I wrote:

You actually have two choices:

1. Buy it.

2. Cold open.

You need to do one or both of those. When you have a new girl you will stop caring about the old ones.

You can read a bunch of other pretty dumb comments at the top link. I’m not going to repeat them all here. Most of the comments are based on misreading, or pouring ideas into my suggestion that aren’t there.

To be clear, I do (of course) emotionally bond with women.

But I also realize that I can only control myself, not others. No matter how into the woman I am, I can’t control her. She will do what she wants. Heartbreak happens.

When it does, you can rage futilely against it. Or you can accept it as a part of life and even enjoy the pain, sort of like how you can enjoy the pain of deadlifting.

A growing experience with a new woman helps release the pain of the previous one. Action is usually better than rumination.

One of the only effective ways of making the old girl come back is to have a new one. Women want what they can’t have.

Kind of like… men.

Does this sound familiar? If you’ve read stoic philosophy it should.

Women also judge men based on social proof. When you have a new woman, that’s social proof. Social proof is why this ridiculous Snapchat gambit worked.

The best women go all the way for their men. She puts 100% into her man. If you are not getting 100%, the relationship is never going to be as good as one in which she willfully and joyously gives 100%. If she stops giving 100%, the relationship is over. The remaining question is, how long will it take the man to recognize it?

If she leaves you, that is… not 100%. So it’s time to buy it, cold open, online date, touch up old leads, do whatever you need to do.

[FR] Slept with a girl I first met eight years ago

About eight years ago I met a young-but-legal girl at a dance class. She went to school out of state. Over the course of the class I ramped up the flirting with her and her friends, and I while I never outright slept with her (not for lack of trying) we did some other things and she eventually went home. Not an interesting story, but last weekend she came to town for work. She’d broken up with her long-term boyfriend of like six or seven years and I invited her to stay with me. She’s nerdier than most girls, which I like because it’s possible to have a real conversation with her.

She came over, I took her out to drink at two favorite bars (if you bring a lot of girls to the same bar or couple bars over and over again interesting things will happen to you…) and then back to my place for sex. No LMR and extremely high levels of connection. In some sense there wasn’t a lot of “game.” She was horny and available and stayed with me for sex. Next time she’s in town I’m going to try bringing her to a sex club or party with me, although she’s apprehensive about that and I’m not sure it’s going to happen. She also told me this time something that I figured: when I first started seeing her she hadn’t had sex before and found me scary, intimidating, and attractive at the same time. In retrospect I think I was acting too aloof around her and didn’t offer enough comfort, or she was just too inexperienced to get where we both wanted to go.

I’ve hung out with her once a year or so and even met her now-ex boyfriend. I’m sure many of you would think this behavior is “beta” or “friendzoned,” but I like her in general and the sexual tension was consistently high. I think that if she’d stayed longer when I first met her I would’ve been her first. At the time I was also pretty deep with someone else, and she knew about the other woman, so that may have dissuaded her. So it goes.

It’s of course true that you shouldn’t be “friends” with a woman who is in your orbit and who you want to fuck and who you stay “friends” with because you’re slavering to fuck her. But if you have good pipeline and are fucking other girls anyway and don’t have oneitis, you should play the long game, and as your game develops it becomes possible to have girls orbit you rather than you orbiting them. The difference is important and as you gain experience you’ll recognize the difference. As I get older more women from the past swing around for a fuck or another fuck. Sometimes age has made me say no but sometimes it’s still very good and low-effort lay.

It is possible to play the long game. More often women I don’t sleep with immediately go away, or I stop replying to their messages. But sometimes old leads come back and the pleasure of this one is intense. In the last decade her body and mind have developed enormously and she’s much better looking and fuller looking now than she was then. The sex was excellent and in that time she’s had one primary boyfriend and, in the last couple months, a FWB. I’m not used to teaching girls her age about fucking, but this one hasn’t had a wide enough range of partners to have really tested all the ways she likes fucking (e.g. she responded incredibly well to a buttplug. Having a lot of toys around is as useful as having any other tool around like those special screwdrivers Apple requires to open their laptops).

There are many stories here about guys doing same-day lays or first date lays. Those are great and I’ve done them. But contrary to what you read here, there are still many girls who won’t sleep with a guy till she knows him pretty well. Problem is that you can’t tell who those are or those will be in advance. Sometimes very demure-seeming girls turn out to be ragingly sexual and sometimes forward-seeming girls turn out to be attention whores who don’t have much sex. When I read guys who talk online about their endless SDLs I get skeptical. Some of the things I read and you read seem really unlikely to me, which may be the subject of a future discussions.

When I first met this girl, I’d known her about eight weeks before I even got her undressed. Usually I wouldn’t wait that long and most of the time women who won’t accelerate quickly are tooling you. But that isn’t true all the time. The sexual tension was always there between us and that enabled last weekend. If you can maintain decent sexual tension over time good things may happen.

There are probably 100 women with whom I have some kind of distant and potentially sexual connection. Guys are overall better off seeking new women than returning to ones we’ve already tried for, but if you cultivate your pool you’ll eventually find a lot of easy lays that drop on top of you. Plus this girl is cool in general.

Consider this a companion to “Snapchat in Game.” If you have pretty good masculine fundamentals and basic game, you can leverage that basic game into a lot of good solid lays later on. I’m also less driven by sex than I used to be, so going longer without doesn’t bother me like it did when I was younger. I wonder if at some point I’m going to take a break, maybe a long break, from the chase.

The one important positive thing about online dating

I’ve read a spate of posts decrying online dating and many make legitimate points I won’t go over here; if you read The Red Pill or Seduction you’ve likely seen them. One game blogger I read, Goldmund, says he HATES online dating.

Love it or hate it, the reality of online dating includes flakes, liars, narwhals, lunatics, divas, and psychos. Granted and experienced.


Online dating also lets women seek consequence-free sex. Their friends and family don’t have to know what they’re up to. If they’re found online, they have wide plausible deniability: “Oh, I was just checking it out.” “I was just on it because my friend made my profile.” “I’m looking for friends.” That latitude is important. Anything that offers women plausible deniability and anonymity will increase sex.

Women who are horny and don’t have other viable, immediate options will seek them online, though they will rarely say as much because they’ll get inundated with low-quality messages and men. If you are in the right place at the right time you may find those women seeking sex.

In my experience, 10+ years ago there were more of those women online, or they were a larger proportion of the whole. Today online dating is mainstream, so there are fewer just trolling for sex, even as women overall are sexually freer. But they are still out there. I still find them online. Women get horny and like sex too. Part of what you’re doing is seeking them out.

Obviously daygame pickup has some of these advantages as well, which is why guys should do it. Do it more than I do, especially if you’re young but out of school.

The “how to do online dating” thing has been covered extensively elsewhere. I will say this:

  • Most brown and Asian guys are out of luck online. Sorry. First impressions are everything and you are at a distinct disadvantage here.
  • Same for short guys. I’m pretty average height and wear raised boots to first and sometimes second or third dates. Is it a lie? Maybe, whatever, I don’t care. Like most guys online I say I’m six foot one. Ha. Sometimes I do get static about height but I don’t care very much and if we’re meeting in person I can move past it. If you’re five-eight or shorter you’re going to have unavoidable problems online.
  • City. Don’t live in a real city? Don’t bother. I’ve lived in many cities and visited more and can tell you that the sex ratio in the city is key. I wouldn’t even bother trying online dating in a tech-heavy city like Seattle. If I did it would be minimal.
  • Photos. The importance of photos is clear and when I’ve talked to women I’ve slept with from online dating, going back probably 15 years now, photos are the number one distinguishing thing about me. Don’t bother trying online dating unless you’re willing to learn photography. I’ve gone through online dating apps with many women over the last decade and the vast majority of guys have shit pictures. Uber hot guys can conceivably get away with shit pics but the rest of us can’t.

I’m not going into depth about learning photography because you can do that online with searches. I’ve experimented with a wide array of photos and found that the motorcycle ones, dog ones, and rope bondage ones work best. Note with the latter that I don’t post photos of nude women but I do show clothed or mostly clothed women I’ve tied up. I’ve also tried showing ones with rope or rope and a flogger, and those can be kind of okay but don’t perform as well as me using rope on a woman.

Those kinds of pics send a strong “this guy is different” and “ecstatic, peak sexual experience” message. In terms of private messages, by now I also have thousands of good pics and videos that can sometimes be judiciously used for social proof purposes. I don’t use those in-app, preferring usually to wait until we’re in person. I think these are easy to mis-use but for the right woman at the right time they can advance the experience. I also have a lot of (true) stories I can tell about sex and dating. Since I mostly look for sex this gets rid of many women seeking relationships-only. Many of those seeking relationships will enjoy booty calls and FWBs while they search. A hot player can warm her while she searches elsewhere, especially if you are explicitly non-monogamous and opposed to monogamy.

By the way, most women have bad pics online too and it’s not unusual to meet someone way better looking than her pics indicate. The reverse is also true. The rise of smartphones has actually made many people’s pics worse than they were in the DSLR era.

  • I’ve been ultra-low and near-zero sugar for a long time. Sugar is the devil. Get rid of it and you will see massive body improvements. I’m an indifferent lifter and athlete compared to some guys but a diet demon and it shows. For offline dating this is useful and for online it is critical. The first pieces of advice are always “lift” and “don’t eat crap” because there are many things a man cannot change at once. What he puts in his mouth and what he does with his time he usually can. Make the core of your diet vegetables and nuts and good things will happen. Not today, not even tomorrow, but over time.

Kate Moss says nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. If she can do it so can you. If you can’t, don’t complain about your shit dating outcomes.

  • In online dating looks issues are amplified and that’s why almost all of this focuses on looks. Women who want consequence-free sex are going to be more interested in looks, social proof, and skill in bed than the average woman. If you want to be the guy on whom they experiment you need to know that.
  • Most guys are shit. Women routinely say this but having seen a lot of what they put up with I think it’s true.
  • Most online dating systems are geared towards new users. I sign up, use it for two to three weeks, delete, and cycle to a new one or simply find women through other means. The longer you use any given system the worse that system is. Every time you rotate on, you should crop or otherwise change your pics, even subtly. These systems love novelty and hate repetition. Online dating must supplement offline dating.
  • I said this about paid sex:

escorts work best for guys who already have strong masculine fundamentals. Escorts are still women and women respond to some guys with strong masculine fundamentals. Escorts who sense weak losers will usually respond in kind

Same thing online. If you don’t have strong fundamentals nothing else will work. Experimental women look to explore sex online away from their friends still want masculine dudes. Taking away social consequences makes a lot of women want to have more and more varied sex.

tl;dnr online dating is hard for men but it also offers women a way to get sex without social consequences.

[Intermediate to advanced game] Valentine’s Day is coming up. That can be a comfort test.

I obviously wrote this one before Valentine’s Day, but the basic idea applies to many other circumstances. Small comfort-building activities are important. Most guys overdo the comfort for so long that when they eventually learn to lean heavier on aloof game they totally forget about comfort.

Everyone reading this should be familiar with shit tests and if you are not then quit this post and read the sidebar. For 90% of guys, shit tests are the sticking point they face. For guys who’ve overcome most shit tests, however, comfort tests can be the bigger problem, especially for medium-term FWBs. A while ago I saw a post titled, “Be careful of being too Alpha, Comfort Tests are far more lethal than Shit-Tests,” and it reminded me of the issue.

Valentine’s day can be a comfort test, but it’s one that’s easy to fail by either doing too much or too little. Gifts are an element of retention. When you start banging girls you don’t have to worry too much about keeping them around, but the vast majority of women consciously or subconsciously want to “advance” their relationship with a good guy. Most women also bond with guys who are fucking them and giving them orgasms. This is doubly true if you’re going bare.

Like I said, it’s easy to fuck up through doing too much (if you are a novice at fucking hot women or more than one woman at a time, quit reading and get more experience). When I was way younger I had the bad habit of thinking that grand romantic gestures and gifts would endear me to women, because that’s what I saw in movies and read in novels. But when I tried grand romantic gestures in real life they totally flopped. As a younger guy I had no idea why. Now I do. Women love romantic gestures but only from a guy they consider to be higher status than they are.

So if you have a woman you’ve been fucking somewhat regularly, consider getting her a small present for Valentine’s Day. You should only give gifts to women you’ve been sleeping with semi-regularly. I’d say at least three times or for longer than a week, but there is no hard and fast rule. Whatever you do, DO NOT GIVES GIFTS TO WOMEN YOU HAVE NOT FUCKED. You will lower your own value in doing so and will decrease the likelihood you will ever fuck her.

The gift shouldn’t be expensive. A stuffed animal or bar of chocolate or inexpensive necklace will do. If she thinks she’s earned the gift, she will value it more than she will a $10,000 engagement ring or an expensive, fancy, uncomfortable dinner with a guy trying to buy her love and her pussy. The best gift I ever got a girl was for a girl who loved pickles and so I got her some for her birthday.

If you deliver a little bit of comfort you will set yourself off from most player assholes. The key phrase is “a little bit.” One of the commenters to that post said,

Shit Test – Too little masculine polarity.

Comfort Test – Too much masculine polarity.

Well-stated. I have been both and while you should err towards too much masculine polarity, you can overdo it. I have, and I made women pointlessly suffer by being too aloof.

For most guys this post is not going to be helpful because you will not yet be at the stage where comfort rather than shit is your biggest sticking point. But if you are like me, you might get over your initial challenges and then decide that you’re too badass to deal with her feelings or to deign to remember birthdays or holidays.

This will both make her feel bad (as well as used) and reduce your performance. A couple dollars, a box, and an air of mystery will go a long way. A little comfort also goes a long way and you should be 80 – 90% aloof, mysterious asshole, but that tenderness will up your game. There is a good book called Mate: Become the Man Women Want that uses the term “Tender Defender” for what women want and like. They want a guy who isn’t a pussy but who isn’t mean to them. When I was younger I went through phases where I was like, “I’m so fucking hard, I’m the boss, I don’t do fucking Valentine’s day,” dumb shit like that. That was a slightly better stance than giving girls I hadn’t fucked flowers in public, but it wasn’t ideal either.

This Valentine’s Day I don’t have anyone I’m seeing who’d be appropriate for this, and lately I’ve gotten kinda tired of women, maybe because I’m getting older. I wish I’d better known how to handle momentous days when I was younger, especially for FWBs-type situations where I want to keep the woman around but I don’t want a conventional “relationship.”

Embrace the awkward

In the real world, seduction and intersex relationships are often awkward. I didn’t know that when I was younger and I thought that being awkward was a sign of my own ineptness. It wasn’t and instead it was a sign of how things are for most people. Also, who cares how awkward it is if you still have sex?

Most girls actually have shit social skills and don’t know how to act around guys they like and aren’t good conversationalists. So meeting, seducing, and sleeping with them is often awkward because of both parties. Paradoxically, the more a guy embraces and rejoices and accepts the awkward, the smoother many interactions will go.

If you are a guy your job is to assume the sale and keep escalating (in a reasonable way or reasonable time) until you are fucking her or she stops you. The whole process might be awkward but when your dick is in her you don’t care, do you? Escalate until you can’t anymore. Often you will escalate your way right into sex that wouldn’t happen is you stood around waiting for the girl to indicate overt approval (which most girls will never do).

In movies and TV a lot of things are smooth and the characters have witty banter and the sex is magic and everyone comes after three pumps. That’s because Hollywood produces fantasy. In real life shit doesn’t work that way, yet we’re conditioned by watching and absorbing fantasy.