Women don’t think that women can make adult decisions and be held accountable for those decisions

Years ago I worked with and sometimes supervised a college-age intern. She was into me for what I assume to be the usual reasons… she initiated the flirting and while I flirted back, I stay somewhat reserved in work settings. While I stand by what I wrote in If you are not a pussy you will do better than most guys: ‘When Women Pursue Sex, Even Men Don’t Get It and argue that men should be more aggressive and direct, it’s also unwise and unnecessary to fuck where you earn.

I slept with this one at the end of her time, and I didn’t actually fuck her until she was done with the internship, and as far as I know we enjoyed some good times. It was an easy, fun lay and she was also extremely petite and extremely tight. She was mobile and moved out of my geographic area, and when she got back I tried to re-engage, but she said a hard “no.”

We’d stayed Facebook friends since then and while Facebook is a waste of time I do use it occasionally… usually to set up hookups or arrange real-world meetings. A year or two ago I happened to see a post about a career milestone for this girl (although I think she’s going in the wrong direction, I’ve not been asked my opinion so I shut the fuck up about it). In the post she wrote about her career decisions and her relationship . . . with an older guy . . . who “took advantage” of her when she was younger. I’m omitting some details, but I realized she is definitely talking about me.

She wrote that I had taken advantage of her vulnerability and used age and wisdom to become intimate with her. She also wrote that I had betrayed her trust in me. She was the active participant in seducing me and I recall what she was like in bed (eager, happy, seemingly satisfied or faking it well).

Our relationship did end in a somewhat untidy way and she got lost in the shuffle because I was f**king a couple other girls at the time, and she left the area pretty quickly. One day during that time I was supposed to meet her for coffee and as I walked in I saw my #1 girl already sitting at the window! I hadn’t properly prepped either for non-monogamy, so I had to run and make some unfortunate and very lame excuses; part of the angry girl’s reaction is probably due to my own hectic schedule at the time, and I should rightfully have done a better job of setting expectations, boundaries, etc. I wasn’t as good at that as I am now, or I just hadn’t had time to.

The aggrieved tone of her post is ridiculous and she is claiming the mantle of victimhood as if that’s something to admire. That woman (and she is now really a woman, not a girl) doesn’t think that women are capable of making adult decisions for themselves. Like a lot of “feminists.” For her, anything women do that they later regret is something that happened due to “emotional vulnerability” or “manipulation” or some such other nonsense. Women like this one are arguing, without realizing it, that women are children and shouldn’t be culpable for their actions and choices. Regret something? It’s a man’s fault.

I actually disagree with that view, but I’ve heard enough women express it to stop me… and make me think… what if those women are right?

There are a handful of women in public who want women to be held to the same levels of accountability and rationality that men are. They don’t buy into the SJW worldview. They are just… rare. But a lot of other women think that women can’t be trusted to make their own sexual decisions. Feminists want to treat women like children. Sometimes I think, “Maybe feminists are right, given the female propensity to rewrite the past to fit present circumstances.” There is an epidemic of reframing consensual encounters as non-consensual, like that chick.

Holly Madison Reveals The Hell That Is Playboy Mansion Life. Now, I don’t doubt that life in the Playboy Mansion was torpid and boring for the girls (how could it not be?). But Holly Madison got fame and a place on TV and rescued from her own inept life choices by nothing more than her beauty. After the fact, she’s pissed off about it and doubts her own ability to consent. She thinks she can’t be responsible for her own decisions… just like the former intern.

What women will think if men start taking them at their word? That women can’t be trusted to be consistent in their own decisions?

Passionate love and companionate love for guys

Got some feedback on this, “Short Dancer, maybe the last girl I was in intense love with (while ago now),” and it seems to be off-brand for me, based on the feedback… but the reactions have alerted me to some oversight… there are at least two kinds of love, passionate love and companionate love (may have got the terms slightly wrong but the idea is right). Passionate love is in the intensely erotic and sexualized love that often characterizes the beginning of relationships, crushes, etc. It’s intense, all-consuming, like a drug, etc. Companionate love is closer to friendship, involving kindness, compatibility, similar values, etc. These two are not completely exclusive… it’s possible to find someone highly arousing but also companionate. Or companionate but also arousing, if you like that better.

They don’t have to go together.

But they can.

I may have misjudged Short Dancer, because I thought she was more hypergamous and more interested in being an experimental s**t than she might be in reality. It’s hard to say because I don’t know a lot about what she’s really been up to, so for all I know she has a secret side guy besides her official guy. But she seems to be more interested in monogamy and a steady relationship than I thought (unless there’s something I don’t know)… but our experience together was primarily passionate. Very passionate.

Passionate love is wonderful… it’s also not very sustainable… after you’ve f**ked a woman hundreds of times, passionate love will probably begin to decline as you acclimate to her and her to you. What’s left when the overwhelming drug exhilaration goes away? Until it does, you don’t know… you probably can’t know… you’ll probably be blinded by her beauty and the feel of her p***y… a lot of the better long term relationships with kids can start with passionate love and decay into companionate love. Not impossible for that happen. But it’s also possible that most women with whom you experience passionate love, are not suitable for long-term relationships. And some women who are great for long-term relationships don’t generate the most intense sexual passion.

“Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills have some overlap but a guy who wants to f**k a lot should focus on the first set of skills, not the second set. Lots of guys have neither set of skills and just take what they can get. Probably the majority of guys, in reality. Most guys writing about the game focus on pickup… as they should… it is hard to have a satisfying long-term relationship without having options and without knowing that the woman you’re with can leave and you’ll be okay. Women prefer guys who the women know can get other women. Guys are going to have lots of trouble having good long-term relationships with companionate elements unless they can pick up chicks.

I’m bringing this up because it’s possible to have a long term relationship with family and kids with a woman who goes from passionate love to more companionate love. It happens, yes. But… a lot of divorces, nasty breakups, etc. happen when someone, or two people, mistake passionate love for good long-term compatibility. Short Dancer was a great passionate love but I think the age gap and other factors made us unsustainable… beyond that, I wasn’t quite looking for that kind of thing at that time.

A lot of broken relationships are founded on passion, and male desperation. Almost all regular romantic/sexual mainstream advice focuses on companionate relationships… those are fine, but the advice is almost always half-blind. I don’t emphasize companionate relationships because the commentary on them is so readily available… but almost no mainstream advice focuses on maximizing passionate relationships… or is even comfortable with talking about them. Players are rare because we value passion and strive to create it in both men and women, while the mainstream seeks to tamp down and deny passion. I want to acknowledge passionate love… but also acknowledge companionate love, here and now. Companionate love can exist without you reader personally wanting to engage in it right now. Get lots of passionate experience first.

In many good long term relationships, passion decays gracefully into companionate love… in a lot of bad relationships, the need to chase passion predominates. One interesting question to me is whether some aspects of non-monogamy can square that circle. Not perfectly, but a little. I’ve seen people do it.

If the relationship is too companionate, especially for younger women, she’ll get bored, and we know that Boredom = death. But women vary in how easily they’re bored, how hypergamous they are, etc., and women who aren’t easily bored are better for long-term relationships. Some women are also incapable of companionate love. I have met women in their 50s and 60s who are still chasing the D like teens.

I’m in favor of being in love. Love is fun. I’m against marriage but in favor of love. You can also love a chick w/o being monogamous.

Advertisers can’t sell products with companionate love, for the most part, so we see passionate love depicted. But companionate love is a thing too.

Many players and s**ts love passionate love and will eliminate partners as the passion subsides. If you commit to a woman while you are in the throes of passionate love, you are setting yourself up to fail, and a lot of guys do this, then post online about how chicks are evil, while taking zero responsibility for their own actions and choices.

Most of the mistakes I write about, like mistaking passion for compatibility, are mistakes I’ve made.

BDSM dates & sex skills & online dating

Most guys still don’t know and can’t do BDSM, but Yoylo, who is working the game says, “I know it sounds a weird request – but how would you stage a sex date with a girl who has complained all her life about sex not being rough enough? I’m planning the date with the MILF for next week.”

Not odd/weird… there are lots of things to do… if you have space and money for a spanking bench, that is a nice touch (etsy seems to be the place to buy them, don’t know why, but check your local sex shops too). Many apartments/flats are too small for spanking benches. In thinking about BDSM… do the slow/teasing leadup… most girls complain that guys go too fast and are in too much of a hurry… so do the opposite. Sex skills for guys, and this one about vibrators, are also good posts with actionable advice applicable to BDSM dates.

Once you have read those two… you’ll understand some basics, so we’ll start when the chick is back at your apartment. If it’s one-on-one, start with kissing her, holding her neck, etc. When she is ready, collar her and put wrist and ankle restraints on her. You might use them, you might not. I wouldn’t gag her the first time, tempting as it is.

Have nipple clamps (key) and a collar.

Be ready with a butt plug and lube.

Talk dirty, tell her she’s a slut, etc.

As you are kissing her, strip her as typical when leading to sex. Play with her nipples and see how sensitive they are. If they’re very sensitive, she probably won’t like clamps. If they’re less sensitive, she’s more likely to. Don’t use clamps immediately, but when she’s very warmed up see if she’s interested in having them on her.

Eventually she’ll only be wearing her panties (assuming she’s wearing any). While she’s still standing, bend her over partially and begin spanking her. If you’ve never spanked a woman before, “How to spank a woman” in a search engine will give you good resources for this. Alternate spanking and caressing. Pay attention to her sounds and body. You may go back and forth with a paddle, or with a flogger.

It’s also reasonable to engage a leather paddle. Move to a wood one if you think she is not reaching her terminus. If you are swinging a wood paddle like a baseball bat and connecting with her ass… and it is not enough… then she is going into places I (personally) don’t want want to go. It’s getting too close to something like torture instead of bondage. There are chicks who go for that… I find it to be a real turnoff when she’s into that level of pain/suffering. For newbie chicks, hands and paddles are usually sufficient.

At some point you want to slide your hands in and begin touching her clit. If you’ve spanked her well and her body responds well, she will probably already be wet. This can go on for as little as four or five minutes or as long as 20 or 30, intermittently, with some gentle caressing in between.

Move her to the bed at some point, or the bench mentioned earlier. Like with sex, it’s not a bad idea to move spaces once or twice. Not so much as to break flow, but enough to keep her from getting bored or too acclimated. And go a little more slowly than you think. It’s tempting to just ratchet up rapidly. If you sense she’s getting bored or restless, ratchet up more quickly. For a lot of chicks, anticipation is as good or better than the execution.

Play with the restraints and with blindfolds. When she’s been spanked well, tie her to the bed and try going down on her and you will likely get a great response, for example. At some point just f**k her as you normally would, but incorporate spanking and choking into it. Hold her collar, lightly, perhaps. This can be dangerous because you don’t want to hurt her windpipe, so be careful with it.

Some chicks who like needles and who like a level of pain and bruising I’m not into. This chick would send me pictures of her entire ass and upper thighs turning black with bruising. I would hit her HARD with paddles, and she seemed to… not shrug it off, but I was not touching her innermost space. I consciously decided she goes too far for me… I don’t want to really beat up a woman, or leave her like that chick liked. I don’t want to mess with needles and blood. I have seen chicks who like that and I’m just not interested and don’t find it erotic. These girls are pretty rare.

Like with sex or symphonies, it’s good to have some mini crescendos, then back off, then build up again.

Like with business, proper preparation is ideal. For chicks, guys make things “just happen” so that the chick doesn’t have to do anything besides pick her outfit and bend over. Chicks live in a world where they just show up… and the guy has done the work… so do the work. Feminism’s noise about “equality” is bullshit. Most chicks want an experienced guy to show them the way.

So that’s my step-by-step towards a chick who has never had it rough enough. This is a scaleable action plan, because some chicks just want a little light spanking and paddling, which they’ve never had from their pussy, feminist boyfriends. Some chicks want extreme pain that I don’t want to get to. Most chicks won’t know where they are until you take them there, and ideally the chick will say “yellow” if you get her to that end state. A good dom is monitoring the chick carefully and backing off when necessary.

I don’t think Yoylo, who asked, really needed the above… it sounds like he’d gotten it all figured out before my reply and was prepared, but he was also ready to change based on the feel of the mood and other contingencies. Being prepared decreases any stress or anxiety in the moment… I have done a little description of prep to friends who say that it sounds like a lot of work. But then I point out that advance work improves the moment because you don’t have to worry about where the paddle is, whether the cuffs are available, how to tie her up, how to release her, etc.

Also, you don’t have to use the equipment at all, or not all of it, every time. You can just use what feels right and if she’s fatigued or you’re just done, you can have it and not need it. Like firearms and condoms, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

My sense is that the BDSM market is not tapped properly online, unlike the general market. This guy, Andy has/had a BDSM Tinder profile that seems to have worked well for him. Will it work for you? No idea… if I had to try online dating again I would give this a shot, given how terrible most online dating has become. You have to decide for yourself.

Home Friend, again, and the cycle guys choose

(This one happened a few months ago, so it’s far out of date… wrote it at the time and then forgot to post.)

Home Friend. Remember her? Barely? Me too. She swung back around for a c**k ride, which seems to be happening every couple months… I wouldn’t mind her being more reliable but I do like her naked and bent over for me, so what can I say? Except that I am not doing the things I keep saying I need to do.

This time I spent some time talking to Home Friend, and it turns out that she has been dating a guy (I think she began dating him a while ago). They became “official” at some point, relatively recently I believe, since she was not in town for quite a while (she is vague on when precisely she got back… fine with me… I am her side piece and she is mine, or one of mine, it seems). It turns out that she was again with a guy…. and this time the guy made it official. “Official.” The last one might have too? I can’t keep all of the chick crazy stories straight. This one was apparently f**king another girl, and she figured this out by showing up at his place unannounced and the other girl was there. He wouldn’t let her in, and she is not a total idiot, so she figured it out.

She was angry while she was telling me the story….. then she started crying! This is after the f**king, during which she was not crying, fortunately, because I am not a fan of crying chicks, although dating chicks means you will deal with tears. Things like this have happened before. I come across as sufficiently non-judgmental that chicks pour out their hearts and thoughts to me…… and they are pretty red pill most of the time…… and usually the chicks are missing an important piece of the puzzle, just like young guys who don’t understand why they can’t get the top chicks. My guess is this guy did the classic thing a lot of players seem to do,

  • He likes some chick well enough. Most importantly, she is getting naked for him regularly.
  • He really also likes f**king the chick regularly.
  • He also really wants to f**k other chicks, if he can (a big “if”).
  • He knows chick #1 will turn off the sex if he won’t make it “official.”
  • So he makes it “official” while continuing to f**k other chicks, or trying to. Home Friend has a pretty conventional girl mind… she’s not proven susceptible to alternate mental frameworks.
  • “Official” girlfriend eventually figures it out. Or the side chick tells her. There are any number of ways for this to blow up.

I have been talking about non-monogamy as a way of getting around some of these problems. Some of you readers say that guys who do “official” girlfriend thing are idiots, and maybe probably that’s true, but I am also that idiot, right now, and I am doing things I really shouldn’t be doing, so yeah. The right thing is easy to do when you are debating it on the internet but sometimes harder to do when you confront it in real life.

I digress. Home Friend seemed surprised that I told her a lightened, edited, sanitized version of the above. I don’t think she’s ever thought of it this way before. Most chicks…… they don’t understand the lives and minds of guys. Guys don’t get chicks either. We are not reaching across that divide.

At times I will point out to Home Friend, and chicks like her, that the guys she likes most are also… tall, good-looking, have good social sense (approach her, escalate her, etc.), and they are probably applying those same good attributes to other girls, so why doesn’t Home Friend go choose a guy who is shy, likes her, and is maybe a little scared to approach her, or intimidated by her? She didn’t seem to understand why she would do this. Her language skills are improved but she doesn’t read nuance well… I think if they had been better she would have said what some chicks have admitted, that they want hot challenging guys and not really the guys who are available to them. They want guys +1 or more above them in sexual market value (SMV). The story of modern dating is all about SMV mismatch. She is a young hot girl so not many guys are above her in SMV… but she is not the hottest girl, so she’s stuck thinking about the hottest of the hot girls. She is stuck until she changes, or until she finds a guy who’ll do the things she wants. She might find him! She is hot, like I said. But she is also kind of placid, so she is only really choosing from the guys who come onto her, from what I can tell (I have seen almost nothing of her behavior in the wild). She uses alcohol to free herself and do some hookups, I believe, which leave her feeling bad and empty in the morning.

I said it the last time, but this is the last time. With her anyway. I need to not be like the player she found with another girl in bed! It will happen to you if you pursue that route.

Let’s talk about another player. I have been talking to a player who is going to a sex club pretty soon, or maybe he has already been? He seems to have uncovered a sex demon woman and it looks like he might bang one of her (attractive) friends as well. This is not a widely-appreciated part of f**king high-libido, no-jealousy women: you can end up f**king a lot of chicks, sometimes without trying very hard. She may end up being your wing woman. Like, when I was seeing Ms. Slav properly, I ended up in the double digits of random affiliated f**ks, and that is with me not even trying all that hard. Home Friend is part of the Ms. Slav run-off. And she is very attractive! Flakey as hell, but attractive. If a guy manages to snare a chick like this and wants to have a lot of casual sex with different women…… he can do it. I have been through this cycle a number of times. I think it’s great… it solves some of the problems I mention above. The trick is finding an attractive woman who is into this. They exist, but there aren’t a huge number of them, and they are often already tied to a primary partner.

Some of them also haven’t learned about consensual non-monogamy. The player I’ve been talking to seems to have a woman like this, who is learning about it from him. I hope he’ll write a field report about his experiences. I also don’t know where he’ll end up going.

Responsibility and later seduction. Internal congruence

Another topic that gets no play in the Red Pill and seduction communities, cause most guys don’t get to this later stage, it is not good to trifle with women who are heavily investing in you. This damages the woman and while it is psychologically appealing to the guy (it’s nice to have the attention and desire you can return… or not), but it creates bad feelings and outcomes. Power over women who invest happens after the guy gets game and deploys it effectively, meaning that most guys never get it and this post is not for them, so this subject confuses them, like stories about a culture they’ve never visited and can’t believe exists.

I know the logical counter to this point (about the wisdom of refusing or discouraging investment that won’t be reciprocated)… “But chicks do this all the time!” True, true. But mature chicks don’t encourage male investment and male suitors who don’t interest them. Immature chicks… greedy chicks… they will, and that’s why so many younger guys have problems with the “friend zone” and perceived female uncertainty. Younger guys don’t follow the algorithm and don’t effectively sort girls into ones who might f**k and ones who won’t. I didn’t either when I was young & stupid, not to worry. I was afraid of “no,” when “no” is a gift, a gift of my time & attention so that I can direct them consciously into better things.

Mature guys… also don’t spend a lot of time and investment in women who are unlikely to be lovers. If a woman isn’t interested… the guy withdraws and finds a woman who is. Many chicks, if attention and gifts are foisted on them by inept men, will accept those… but if you are foisting gifts on a woman who hasn’t earned them, then you kinda deserve what you get. Immature guys believe gifts and attention should be rewarded with sex… when it’s actually closer to the other way around. No one in our female-dominated culture discusses to this.

This gets me to my point… when a woman’s emotions and sex habits are connecting and converging into you… it is not good to trifle with her, lead her on, and jerk her around. You will damage her, and inflict needless cruelty, and for what? If you have decent game, the sex part may be challenging, but it shouldn’t be infinitely so.

Some dysfunctional women prematurely invest when they shouldn’t, or they can’t help themselves because the man is unusual and matches their interest, or is much higher SMV than they are. If she does that… it is not your fault. But you should let go, want to let go, chicks who are deeply converting but who you don’t fancy in that way. At least tell them that you’re not going to be their boyfriend but can be their lover. Set expectations.

This is emerging from my own experiences and from conversation with a player who is interested in non-monogamy and who has found a woman who has also been searching for this her entire life, searching for a way to reconcile mind and body, emotions and physicality. Like libido girl and a number of others I’ve met, she craves the novelty of new sex… but wants a relationship too. Most guys, if they advance from casual sex into something more structured with a woman, won’t want a woman like this (they really want a woman who will be monogamous to them). There are a lot of pretend non-monogamous guys, and even more strictly monogamous guys (when you get down to it). Women who are sexually adventurous but with hearts and the desire to pair-bond… it’s actually not easy for them. Even with monogamous women, their real, true, and full investment is intense. For the bulk of guys who have never experienced the intensity of female emotional and sexual investment…. this issue will be invisible. Like “how to end it” with a woman. It’s advanced stuff. Beginners mistake compassion for weakness. Don’t worry, I did too, once.

I’m against being mean to people. Yes, women will sometimes be mean to you, they will try to take value from you without giving it in return. Yes, it is sometimes appropriate to be mean to people, or direct in a way that is seen as mean. But what is perceived as mean or cruel is often just a balancing of the scales of value.

Notice what I am NOT doing. I am not arguing against casual sex (it would be funny if I did, given my history). I am not arguing against deepening relationships with women. I am not arguing that women are innocent damsels (they are not, and the innocent damsel trope is a lie men tell themselves in order to be p***y… in the real world, almost no one is “innocent”). “Beyond casual sex” is more fun than just f**king strangers in my view. But… I am arguing that it’s bad for you and for the woman to let a woman deeply invest in your and convert to you, if you don’t set expectations, or if you plan to just let her dangle. Cut her loose and let her invest in someone else. The world is already harsh and full of bitterness…. no need to make it harsher and more bitter. It’s bad for the man’s subconscious. Keeping your subconscious aligned with your accessible consciousness is a part of frame, a part of being congruent that, again, no one talks about. Low status guys, f**ked up guys, are incongruent, and their low value and incongruence messes with their inner game. Higher-status, higher-class guys maintain congruence and have a keen sense of loose equality in terms of value given and value taken. This is getting a bit on the “hippie” side of things, about consciousness development, but I think that’s where the the higher levels of game live. Levels a lot of guys never hit, cause they can’t get past the lower levels.

Most women, by the way, never access higher levels of consciousness. If they do, they are already post-wall, and it is too late for them to access those levels via sexuality. Most younger women rely on men to get them there, and most men disappoint. That’s part of the reason we see the discord we see.

Seek for the higher levels. Discourage investment where it’s not warranted. If you see signs of her emotional investment, decide consciously if you want to respond in kind or keep her at a distance. The beginning parts of the game are important but so is the middle and end, where few guys live and where almost no guys writing online discuss.

The more time you spend around women, the more you realize most of them are basically irresponsible and want someone else to make decisions for them. This is why we have the crazy Title IX man-hunting tribunal in the United States and why so many women distance themselves from their sexual choices. This is also why so few women make it to the top of corporate and other hierarchies, because an individual has to be intensely responsible for his choices if he’s going to be a leader, not just a follower—something that most women can’t do. Men who have a lot of experience with women also learn that most women like to follow and so men are reluctant to put women in leadership roles, for good reason. Almost no feminists will admit this, leading to the absurd statements about women in companies that shrieking harpies propagate in the media.

I actually have no problem with women running companies or whatever, but I don’t think you’ll ever see as many women in leadership roles because it’s contrary to baseline female psychology. If a woman wants to be responsible for a large company and has the personality and intellect to do so, then that’s dandy. It’s just unlikely. Most women want men to take responsibility for them… and when she lets a guy into her soul, and then he chucks her aside, she’s wounded. Try not to let her do that. A guy who starts off low status might want to be mean, as revenge… but he’s really taking revenge on himself, for putting up with behavior he shouldn’t have. No reason to do that. The world is hard enough.

Group sex and the shift from scarcity to abundance

An anonymous player I know says,

Group sex has fundamentally shifted my thoughts about Red Pill and seduction. I cannot understate the change in me. It really does feel like a shift from scarcity to abundance.

I know this feeling and yet no other writing players I’m aware of are tapping non-monogamy and groups. Threesome and group sex fantasies are very common among both men and women, as women themselves attest, but most women are passive and lack the leadership necessary to make their fantasies reality. Very few women know guys who can pull off executing these fantasies, so, if you become that guy, you are by definition not a commodity guy. Women are bombarded by commodity guys with basic or no sex skills, and a guy who can unlock their dirtier fantasies is not that guy. If you tap into the sex club world, you will also end up unlocking a pool of girls who are pre-selected for liking to f**k a lot… and then you can f**k them.

Women have the fantasy, but the group-sex reality usually needs deep coordination between the participants, especially for MFM. The threesome management guide I wrote probably understates the degree to which coordination is important. Ideally all the players should cooperate and coordinate, but the temptation to defect remains potent in many threesome situations, and it often happens that one party is less active during some parts than the other two parties. This can lead to feelings of isolation and being left out, particularly because most threesomes happen between an established couple and a third person. The third person often brings new relationship energy (NRE) in with them.

After an MFM or FMF, the aftercare for the girl is super important. Many girls will experience sub-drop, and the girl may be susceptible to feelings of worthlessness, low sexual marketplace value, disgust, regret, etc. The girl may need reaffirmation that she is a good person, that sexuality is fun and normal, that she is not dirty or degraded, and that she’s not just a f**k-toy for men. That means she probably needs to be held, cuddled, chatted with, etc. The man should check in with her the next day, in person if possible. It’s a good idea to do a non-sexual or low-sexual date as soon as possible, like getting coffee or going for a walk. This allows her to process the intensity of the group sex situation and feel that her normal life is not disturbed by what she may feel are depraved fantasies.

All of these challenges can be overcome and mitigated, but the novice group-sex initiate often doesn’t anticipate them. I don’t think I anticipated them effectively. I also didn’t anticipate how it was possible to combine non-monogamy, game, and sex clubs to unlock abundance and commodification.

Another player says,

I thought you need to be an experienced player to do threesomes and group sex and now I organised MFM is less than four months in a game with a first regular after four months dry spell. Wtf is going on?

I can understand it… and that is part of the reason I like it… and also part of the reason I think the rest of my game has improved… I genuinely don’t give a fuck if any individual girl is into me or not, which makes them more into me, and protects my vibe/state during cold streaks. I know that I’ll end up getting laid one way or another… so if she wants these peak experiences, she needs to enter my world. That’s kind of the attitude, or the frame. Many women reject the gift… and that’s fine… most people’s lives are kind of crappy.

I want to emphasize that I care a lot about the women in my life who I choose and who choose me, and with whom I have a tight bond. Many guys get hurt or angry when a strange women rejects them. That’s the wrong way to think about it, although I understand how desperation and horniness drives guys to think that way. The woman who offers a swift rejection gives you the gift of your time and attention, to better deploy them. Time is always finite, and one modern tragedy is the way people waste it on social media.

The player who organised the MFM also substituted (some) knowledge for experience. That is the beauty and magic of books… they accelerate learning. Reading a book is no perfect substitute for experience, as should be obvious, but the player who’s read it has the intellectual and social framework for implementing group sex and non-monogamy ideas. I had to build up those things from scratch.

I think most guys think threesomes “just happen” after a bunch of drinking and lucky circumstances. You are taking “just happens” and making an industrial process or algorithm out of it. Once you have the fundamental, you know what to do. Discovering the algorithm is hard, but implementing it is (relatively) easy. The free book allows guys to get past the innovation phase and towards the engineering/implementation phase.

One theme you’ve seen running through this blog is about markets, supply, and demand. Magnum tweeted out The Dating Market: Thesis Overview, about dating market dynamics… “A conservative estimate of the percentage of new relationships begun online in 2019 is at least 65%, but likely over 75%.” “The social costs of rejecting a potential mate are now likewise effectively zero, making introductions within existing social groups (friends, family friends, church, etc.) structurally inferior propositions given significant social and reputational risk in the event of an adverse outcome.”

The age dynamic creates significant inter-age cohort competition in the female population and increased overall competition in the male population. This can be conceptualized as the market becoming more efficient, which naturally leads to many market participants anecdotally expressing unhappiness with the status quo as they incorrectly identify an inability to produce low effort excess returns as the circumstances being “unfair.” Basically, the same thing is happening in the dating market as is happening in the Hedge Fund market: things are getting more efficient, very few are pleased about it, and there are lots of strange advice books, blogs, and videos coming out.

But for top guys, women become a commodity… something this author has missed.

We could say, “Sometimes it seems to me that a good unified theory of modern society’s anxieties might be ‘everything is too efficient and it’s exhausting.'” Dating is more efficient in some ways, but less efficient in others. Most chicks can’t accurately assess a guy through his online bullshit. Most guys however can accurately assess about how hot a chick is. So chicks have lots of choices without good ways of navigating those choices. This seems like a detour, but the market for basic guys is flooded.

The market for guys who can make a woman’s sexual fantasies come true remains thin. Most guys can’t do this. I’m teaching guys how not to be like most guys. I don’t know, maybe in 10 years all guys will have threesomes and group sex in their quivers, and it won’t be a significant differentiator. For right now, today, it sure is. I am helping guys get out of the efficient markets and into inefficient markets for making fantasies happen. If every guy is on Tinder he will be judged accurately and harshly as a commodity, but if he is doing daygame, building his value, and offering enticing non-commodity experiences, well then he’s going to offer unusual value.

I also think most guys and chicks are doing online dating poorly, but that is a rant for another time.

New thread, a player had an MFM and then worked through the aftermath of it,

We did a debrief today and discussed the good, the bad and the ugly of the MFM. One lesson learnt for me was having a second crack at [girl] while [player 1] was in the shower. We cleared that up and agreed no more sex unless he or I are back in the room with our main girl.

Personally I’m not worried about sex happening with the main girl while I’m not in the room, provided that I trust the other guy. But I understand where these rules come from. In addition, applying this kind of business logic or practice to sex is also how to build skills rapidly. Most guys, especially younger guys who have not been in the work world, are not familiar with these kinds of practices. There are different formal methodologies for this, like six sigma, but they are pretty similar. Smart businesses know they are key to rapidly building skills and improving product, service, etc. There is no reason they cannot or should not also be applied to seduction… or in this case to group sex. Most of us have ego defenses that inhibit us from getting honest negative feedback, but the good/bad/ugly mechanism or mechanisms like it help us overcome ego defenses and work to maximize skill improvement.

After intense group sex experiences it’s often good to run through these kinds of things to determine what limits and boundaries are there as well as how to make them better next time. Each individual and couple needs to work out their own rules and principles, and I can’t do that for them.

Overall, these players are hitting many of the expected milestones, so it’s positive to see that my experience doesn’t seem to be unique but instead is part of a pattern that is replicable by others.

Woman validates the Red Pill, “The Beauty Exec Fantasizing About the Single Dad Next Door”

Ho boy, “The Beauty Exec Fantasizing About the Single Dad Next Door” conforms so well to Red Pill stereotype and doctrine… it does as much as “My friend ‘Anna’” does not… the writer is 43, divorced, two kids, f**king around, she states she wants a relationship, but, “Why is it that the nicer the apartment, the less I like the guy?” Probably cause really rich guys are often compensating for lack of personality and/or bedroom skills. This guy also doesn’t have good options, “it makes me feel kind of repulsed how into me he is. I should be thrilled. There is nothing not to like about him.” No guy should be that into a 43 year old woman with two kids. This woman knows that his extreme interest is a demonstration of lower value (DLV).

“He’s the kind of guy who really craves family. Again, it makes him pathetic to me.” Because if he craves family with her… he must not be high value… so he turns her off. To her credit, she says, “I adore my kids. They are the two greatest loves of my life.” This is why dating single moms is a bad idea. Their kids will always be first, if they have any character at all as human beings. Go find a woman who hasn’t had kids and give her the greatest loves of her life. This woman is chasing the hottest men… but also, “My ex had an affair, which is why he’s now my ex. Other than cheating on me (over the course of two years), he was a good husband and a great father.” She probably got a guy who has very high SMV… and those guys… they tend to use their SMV. An SMV mismatch problem. This woman was probably delusional about her ex and she is delusional about who she might date now.

I’d like to find someone to have a serious relationship with, but that someone has to be amazing. I won’t compromise. I am content with my life as is, so I would rather be alone than with someone I don’t totally fucking worship and adore.

This woman is 43 and… delusional. She thinks she wants a serious relationship but will only consider the guys who will likely disqualify her. She may be content right now but as her SMV fades, whether she keeps up the yoga or not, “I actually hate yoga but I do it for the yoga bod,” her options are going to get worse. She thinks she wants a serious relationship but all of her behaviors and beliefs point in the opposite direction. This is an incoherent woman.

Overall this story matches recent discussion with Mark J,

Red, how much of this do you think is down to location ? Big coastal cities naturally attract younger, hotter, more hypergamous girls. I’m in NYC and de facto assume any girl I am fucking is seeing or at the very least talking to other guys. But if I was in a smaller Midwest city for example I could imagine that being a lot less common.

There is something to this… I said back, “There’s also some sorting going on… if a girl (or guy) wants to be a big slut, she moves to the big city. It’s about the culture of the place but also the people who move there.” The writer above is a sample of being a big city slut, but not being able to acknowledge it.

Short Dancer, maybe the last girl I was in intense love with (while ago now), moved back to her small town and from what I can tell is now dating a guy who is worse than me in pretty much every respect… except that he seems to be willing to commit to her… and that is important to her… more important than I understood at the time… in some ways I was blinded by my own belief system. We all self-deceive. So Short Dancer is willing to turn down a big city experience to make less money, have less excitement, but also to find a guy who is willing to commit to her… and she is very pretty. But she doesn’t seem to be interested in playing the hypergamy game. She is the sort of girl who is probably not going to show up in some Red Pill horror story. Not yet, anyway. When she’s ready to stray… I hope she gets in touch.