The perils of younger women

Last night I slept with a woman I first met a while ago, from this story. We met when she was on a bad date (I’ve actually picked up a couple women this way). She was in her early 40s, still very lithe, but no honest guy prefers a woman in her early 40s to a woman in her 20s, all else being equal, for sex. There are obviously fatties in their 20s and some women are still cute in their 40s, but on average the 2o-something wins.

Between the last time I saw her and now, this woman got in a semi-serious relationship with another guy and the relationship fizzled, so she sent a “how are you?” feeler text to me, we got drinks, and then the usual.

But I wasn’t that excited about her. Bike Girl is in her 20s and man, after getting used to an attractive woman in her 20s, going back to a 40+ woman is hard. Harder than it should be. Objectively this one is still attractive. If I’d not had sex for a week, I’m sure I’d have been all over her. But with Bike Girl eager for sex even more often than I am, I just didn’t have the umph necessary to make it work, and I think lithe former dancer knew as much.

This one also has something sad about her. She was in a 10+ year relationship and it was never the “right time” to have kids. Reading between the lines, I think she just got bored of her guy, and vice-versa. She basically blew her fertility window on nothing. I meet a lot of women like this. They usually have one LTR that “didn’t work out” or some similar female nonsense and deeply regret not having kids. Or they’re furiously trying to find a guy to have kids with, but they’re finding that their whole dating market structure changed a lot, without them really noticing, between 22 and 35. None have read an older article, “Marry Him! The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough,” because they’re too busy with Cosmo or whatever other dumb shit most women read.

Enough of that. The last ten or so cold approaches I’ve done (a couple on the street, one in a grocery store, a couple in coffee shops) have gone nowhere. A couple of weak numbers. I may lack the necessary intent. And the time.

Bike Girl is also getting more comfortable with non-monogamy. We had the foursome, and soon we’re going to try a MFM threeway with my “threesome buddy.” He’s into the non-monogamy swinging community and we’ve done this many times before. Bike Girl is apprehensive, but in a cute way. She says she’s never met anyone like me before, but I tell her, truthfully, that she likely has, but without recognizing it.

I do think I’m making her a little too insecure for non-monogamy.

Of course, it’s also possible that she’s seeing someone on the side and not telling me. I learned a long time ago that there is no such thing as “not that kind of girl.” Or if there is, I (and men in general) can’t reliably distinguish between “not that kind of girl” and “that kind of girl.”

Girls are also experts at compartmentalizing. Most guys don’t know this or don’t want to know it. They prefer a “purity” fantasy. Ha.

Haha.

I started this post about the older woman and almost immediately shifted it to being about other women, so I suppose that’s all I need to know about that.

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Bike Girl: Good and Bad

Good:

1. Sex. Does everything I want. Likes being submissive. Likes the sex tapes. Sex is extremely good. She follows well and trusts me to lead.

2. Fitness. Not much into lifting but likes yoga. A solid seven who is considerably younger than me and deeply into me: probably not that uncommon for the top game guys, but not that common for guys not putting in much effort, I think. Her food habits aren’t great but I bring them up.

3. Likes to read, or reads when I read. A lot of girls demand constant stimulation or spend their lives staring into their phones; when I read she reads.

4. Seems to like me. There are a lot of girls who will have a lot of sex, but they don’t seem to really like me that much (or the guy they’re dating, if they’re dating someone else and I’m observing them). Don’t really get why this dynamic happens but it’s common enough to note it.

5. Strong feminine vibes. Again, hard to define what this means but I know it when I see it.

6. We had our first four-way (switching with another couple) and it went well. When I have more than two minutes I’ll write about that. It was pretty standard from my perspective and pretty standard is very good.

Bad:

1. Messiness. Extremely messy apartment, although she’s tried to make an effort to change because she can figure out my reaction to it. This will prevent any attempt at co-habitation.

2. Kind of basic. Hard to describe exactly what this means too, but she’s not that smart and not that motivated. I think she’s a gallon of water that takes the shape of whatever man she pours herself into. But it sounds like she’s not had a lot of long-term relationships, so maybe she just goes from guy to guy. Because I don’t believe most of what women say (everyone has a narrative) I can’t judge her relationship past well. She speaks well of exes, which is a good sign in my view. When I’m not around I think she’s on her phone all the time, but she can turn it off when I’m around. For now.

3. Related to #2, I think she wants a way out of the office grind and sees me as a potential way out. I downplay income stuff deliberately but if you’re around someone long enough they put it together. Plus one of my go-to lines is, “I’m used to telling people what to do.” Which is somewhat true but also works well.

4. A little clingy. Not real bad, and this could be a “good” sign because she really likes me, and relationships are always better when the woman is more into the man than vice-versa. Women need someone to look up to.

5. Doesn’t have many actual skills. This is related to #3. So few girls know how to cook or clean or just manage life. It’s like, “What do I need you for?” Sex is cheap and girls seem not to have figured this out. If she only brings sex to a relationship then the relationship is probably not going to last, because all the other things in life still need doing. I have talked to Bike Girl about this a little bit, but she thinks that love conquers all. No, honey, it doesn’t. Infatuation makes people think that in the thrill of a new relationship, but the real world works differently.

Neutral:

1. As usual, after a couple months the girl I thought was OMG so hot is still pretty but no longer captivating. I wish it weren’t true but it is.

2. She is open to the idea of an MFF threesome.

3. She has close friends and confidants, whereas a lot of girls are totally lonely or have “friends” who aren’t really friends.

4. She actually wants more sex than me on average, and having so much with her drains me enough to prevent me from pursing other leads. Sounds like a plus, but whenever a guy stops approaching the well dries up. My well stays somewhat full due to kink and non-monogamy, but the highest-caliber girls don’t usually come from there.

I don’t know how other guys deal with career, primary partner, kids, and gym. I’m efficient but it feels like something’s gotta give among those four.

As always I don’t know how to evaluate many things.

I sensed the “what are we?” conversation

I sensed the “what are we?” conversation with Bike Girl, and but before it could happen I preempted it by asking if she wants to go to a sex party some friends are hosting. I know she’ll be very popular there, maybe too popular. She was hesitant and asked a million questions but we have a tentative agreement to go and not have sex with anyone else there. A good first effort. A lot of girls will break over this issue. She may break.

The other day I was meeting her at a bar and had this intense conversation with a beautiful woman, and I fell into auto-game with her, despite the many blowouts recently. I mean intense: eye to eye, light touching, her facing me quickly, rapport. As my forebrain kicked in to demand that I try for a number and roll off, Bike Girl showed.

Still a nice reminder after the failures.

Bike Girl likes being my model, likes it when I tape sex (whatever, it’s a thing for me), likes lots of other stuff. But her apartment is a horror show. Not hoarder-level, but definitely “I could never live with you,” level. That I’m thinking about it is a weakness.

The more game I’ve needed the worse the relationship has been

I was reading “Honest observations after eight years in the game” and got to thinking: the more game I’ve needed to get a particular girl, or the more I’ve had to run game on her, the worse the relationship has been. The ones who are bitchy, constantly testing, and most difficult can be good in bed but the relationships themselves are never the best. Those women are only good as friends with benefits, and even then the “friends” part stretches the definition of the word.

The ones who just wanted me and the sex and let everything lead into that have been the most pleasant to deal with and over time the best in bed. Over time this has become my own test: How much game did I need to get this woman? The more game, the more likely I am to jettison her or keep her in a distant rotation.

It’s amazing to me that many women think playing hard to get and being unpleasant to be around is somehow a way to get and keep a man. That’s a good way to get some casual sex and a terrible way to get a relationship. Over time, the guys who persist most will be the ones with no other options. Guys with options will find a woman who’s more pleasant to be around, and pleasant to be around starts with the very first interaction.

Bike Girl was pleasant when I met her, pleasant in texting, pleasant on the first date, and has been pleasant since. So was the gorgeous 19-year-old I met a couple years ago and dated for almost two. Most of the relationships I’ve ended prematurely ended because the girl was the opposite. The more “game,” I’ve needed, the more I realized (usually sooner) that the girl couldn’t and shouldn’t be anything more than an FWB. The more I’ve felt “tested,” the more I’ve known the girl is no good or no good for me. Next!

No wonder relationships in the U.S. are fucked.

This isn’t an “actionable” post and doesn’t matter much for guys who want to hit ‘n’ run. But guys who are still being chosen, rather than the choosers, should know that your whole world changes when you do more choosing. You learn a lot quickly.

 

Frame control technique: “You only get to ask one question, then I get a question!”

I met a couple of bike girl‘s friends tonight and one in particular kept shit testing me, hard (which is weird because bike girl does almost no shit testing, and I like that, a lot, about her). I used a favorite technique for redirecting conversation: when a bunch of rapid fire questions come in a row, announce, “You get a question, then I get a question.” Kind of like the trade-off in truth or date.

Delivered correctly, this will often redirect the conversation, and the shit test will be forgotten. Tonight, one of the friends wanted to know my age, and I gave some variant of my favorite shit answer (“old enough to know better but young enough not to care”). This, along with some other stuff, got her riled, but I actually did pretty well by treating her like a puppy. When she called me condescending I just shrugged, nodded, and smiled a little. At some point she gave me some bullshit again and I pulled another favorite line that I’ve been tinkering with over the past couple years, “What can I say? I’m used to giving people orders.”

It leads either to a subject change or a great set of follow-ups. It’s also somewhat true in my case. I wish I hadn’t fallen for so many shit tests in high school and college, but back then no one openly discussed them and there was no “game” like there is now.

I see that Tom Torero has a podcast about shit tests as well. Probably a good listen for anyone with shit tests as a sticking point. I’m not that good at them most of the time, but I am very good at being non-reactive (a side effect of not being good at neutrality when I was younger and would rise to the bait).

Sociologist Mark Regnerus: ‘Cheap sex’ is making men give up on marriage

“Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage” is the article, and it should not surprise most guys reading here who have followed the community over the last couple years. His book is Cheap Sex: The Transformation of Men, Marriage, and Monogamy.

In today’s dating market men can specialize in being the guy girls want to fuck or the guy they think they should want to marry. Or more realistically neither, but let’s ignore that for now. It is of course possible to do both but trade offs exist in the real world and most guys are better off specializing in being the fuck boy.

While women bemoan the lack “eligible” men, they actually mean that they want a guy who can fuck all the girls he wants but for some reason her magical pussy makes him monogamous to her and makes him want to transfer lots of financial and other resources to her, with basically nothing in return. Guys are waking up to how terrible a deal this is. If one woman walks, she’ll be replaced by another. Guys who know they can get laid live a very different life from guys who can’t.

Stated like that the situation obviously makes no sense.

The only way to judge who and what women actually want is to look at who they fuck. Smart guys hit the gym, up their style, and learn game. Dumb guys bemoan their “fate.”

My last bunch of relationships ended after three to twenty-four months when the woman wanted a timeline for cohabitation or eventually marriage, and I refused. Very few women will be long-term fuck buddies or even girlfriends without a timeline for cohabitation. That can yield a Groundhog-day quality to relationships, but in my experience that is much better than the situation I found myself in when I lived with the woman who is now my ex and the mother of two kids. While I didn’t marry her (a smart move) I did make a lot of other errors that are obvious in retrospect.

In the article, the author doesn’t even attempt to ask himself what legal structures might make men wary of marriage:

This ratio, he says, keeps ultimate relationship power in the hands of men. “To plenty of women, it appears that men have a fear of commitment. But men, on average, are not afraid of commitment,” Regnerus writes.

“The story is that men are in the driver’s seat in the marriage market and are optimally positioned to navigate it in a way that privileges their (sexual) interests and preferences. It need not even be conscious behavior on their part.”

Or maybe men have learned from their fathers and uncles and friends that any time a woman wants to, she can divorce him and take half his assets. If they have kids she can use the violence of the state to compel him to disgorge money to her for 18 – 24 years. So why would any man sign up for that shit? Answer: he won’t.

“I was also wondering if I really wanted to stay in the Game”

I am reading the Krauser book A Deplorable Cad, and about midway he drops this:

As winter approached I’d run out of steam for game. London was boring me, and my mojo was depleted. I was also wondering if I really wanted to stay in the Game. The happiest times in the year had been hanging out with Docile and then going on holiday to Barcelona with her and Gita. I’d also felt strangely at peace when sitting in cafes with Zaria just chatting and watching her read.

This book is the second or third out of four, and it’s only halfway done, so the reader knows that Krauser does not run out of steam for game. But I identify with his feeling because it’s another way of stating my feelings in “Ramblings about a change in perspective towards game and life.” Granted that I’m older than he was at the time described in the book and also that I have never been remotely as obsessed with game as he and his colleagues were or are. But there can be a kind of hollow void, I think, from relentlessly picking up strangers, many of whom are in turn using your tool to deal with some kind of void or psychological problem in their own lives.

“Many of whom,” not all of whom, mind. Lots of psychologically healthy girls like casual and not-so-casual sex as well.

I’m still committed to not marrying, but I wonder if one day I will soften to the idea of cohabitating with a woman again. It would be very hard to find a woman whose values and lifestyles mesh sufficiently with mine, but I don’t think it’d be impossible either.

She’d also have to be close enough to me in age. Realistically a man as old as I am cannot build a long-term life with any woman younger than her late 20s. It just won’t work if she’s younger. That much I know. It is always funny when you worry about using a girl for sex only to discover she is. . . using you for sex!

I should not be thinking too long-term right now. The date with the bike girl went very simply and very well. Before the date I did (or attempted) four warmup sets and got harsh blowouts from all of them. A very strange run, but then bike girl herself liked me a lot from the get go. She is more shy and introspective than she first seemed, when I think the riding had raised her spirits and also mine. But so far everything seems to be going well. She is also too young to make long long-term work. But I am enjoying the moment and am not going to complain when the right girl at the right time falls into the lap.

I will write more about A Deplorable Cad when I finish, but I judge that I am either less psychologically damaged than most of the game-obsessives or I am more delusional about psychological damage. Only the self-deluded believe they are beyond self-delusion. I still think I’m closer to normal than many of the characters in the book or who write game books of their own.

Having kids and thus needing a career also means that even if I wanted to go full bore I’d be unable to. It is still fascinating to see the people who have gone all the way.

Krauser emphasizes how real game forces a man to confront his own psychological demons, and I agree totally. Self-understanding is so hard and lacking it will often destroy even a man who works hard.