The people who pursue and practice and the ones who don’t

I was reading about lifetime sex partner patterns for men and women, and how it is that men can report more lifetime average partners, and a thought bubbled up… most people never systematically improve their skills at sex, seduction, etc., and there’s a really huge gap between those who pursue systematic improvement in almost any domain… and those who do not (most people). Today, guys are lucky to live in a time when the means for systematic improvement are readily available online, which was not true for most of human history. For all the bitching about women and feminism, there has never been a better time in history, fucking EVER, for an average guy to rack up lays, assuming he wants to do that.

The question is whether he both wants to get laid and wants to pursue getting laid in an effective way. There is a really huge gap between people who pursue the game in a disciplined, systematic, effective way, and people who don’t (most guys). Almost no one talks about the role of intentional practice in improving performance, but it is there. I myself have not gone as far as I might in trying to improve my game… I have not, for example, bought wireless mics and recorded cold approaches for later analysis, which is a good way of figuring out what is working and what is not. If you have ever been involved in sales with a telephone component, you have probably recorded your calls in order to make sure you’re not f**king anything up. Then, to maximize your likely success. If you move the needle from a 5% to an 8% success rate, you will still fail most of the time, but you will succeed 62% more than you would have otherwise.

Chicks, of course, don’t have to do things like record and analyze their “sets,” because they’re the buyers, not the sellers, and if they’re smart they know how to improve their own diet, exercise, etc…. things that most chicks don’t bother doing, and it shows.

It’s possible to be an attractive guy with sociable hobbies and a willingness to tolerate rejection and do well at the game almost accidentally, especially when young and in school. But I think a lot of that gap in lifetime lays today is just a question of who perseveres, learns, improves, and keeps improving their game, versus who thinks that some guys are just “naturals” and that there is no possibility of improvement. If you believe you cannot improve, you are right. If you believe you can improve, you are also right.

There’s also more than one way up the game mountain, and guys who find one way blocked should choose alternate routes. Today everyone is online, so that route could be harder than it was five or ten years ago (that is my observation and experience). So maybe cold approach and in-person meeting has become more attractive as the average person’s social skills degrade and the average person becomes more autistic because of excess phone time. The average person is constantly on their phone, so maybe not being on your phone and paying attention to the world around you is a way to pursue an alternative route. Many daygame guys talking online (probably a minority of the guys doing game…) disparage using money as a component of game, but I do believe some guys do that effectively. A guy driven by ego probably doesn’t want to use money as a component, but a guy who is driven by f**king might want to.

Regardless of the way, practice and growth mindset are important and most guys have neither.

Two kinds of women in non-monogamy: The reluctant and the feral

I see a lot of women involved in various ways in non-monogamy, and the most common kind is a bit of a dabbler, and she’s more into forming relationships than hooking up. For this kind of girl, the kind most guys are familiar with, the girl is picky, random, and favors threeways and groups in theory, but she’s basically not that into it. In the right mood with the right situation, she’ll go for it, but more often than not she puts the brakes on things. This kind of girl is common apps, where her boyfriend is really directing things, and she’s just along for the ride… she might authorize some chitchat and send a “naughty” pic or two, but when it comes time to meet the other couple disappear, or something comes up and can they reschedule some other time?, etc. They’re like a lot of chicks players meet… they seem like prospects but fizzle out for reasons internal to them.

This type of girl is basically monogamous at heart, and for that reason she can also be dangerous if you’re cohabitating with her, or if you think you’re in a serious relationship with her… for her, non-monogamy may be a step in the branch-swing process. She finds another guy she likes, probably without the boyfriend’s approval, and because they’ve been to a few sex clubs, it doesn’t count, so why not go on that date with him, see where things lead… then she tells the boyfriend they’ve grown apart and she moves hard on the other guy.

That doesn’t always happen of course, and sometimes she’s just not that into the excitement of other people, so she’ll only be into switching if everything lines up for her (usually it doesn’t).

The other kind of girl is a true slut (in the sex-positive sense of the word) who loves f**king and f**king in groups. Her default answer is yes and her default mode is towards more f**king. This type of girl is rarer, but, if you can find a hot one of this type, she can make an insane, unbelievable partner in the scene. I have met several like this. This type of girl usually also feels limited or no jealousy, or, if she feels jealousy, she gets it f**ked right out of her.

This second type of girl is also the kind of girl who makes the “what’s your number?” questions irrelevant, as you can end up with huge numbers almost inadvertently just by dating around and going to parties with her. Most doors are open to her. She is typically low drama, and far lower drama than the typical chick.

I’m bringing this up only because, before I became intimate with the second type of girl, I don’t think I fully believed she existed. Maybe I kind of, sort of knew that she was out there somewhere, but now I know she exists, and I also know her power… but also her terror, to other women (for she lowering the “market value” of sex, if you will), and to men who secretly want monogamy from their women (many men do, even the superficially sex-positive ones).

I’m going to call this second kind of chick feral, but, again, in a good way (for my purposes, historically).

The tragedy of type two is that she has a lot of trouble acquiring and maintaining a primary partner. Her life also gets much harder for her as she gets older, if she wants a family, as most women (and people) do. The structure of aging is harder for women than for men in general… a guy who keeps building his value can have very high value from age 35 – 45 (although this may not be typical). A guy whose interest shifts from partying to family at age 35 will face a very different world than a woman who does the same (as we’ve all seen, if we’re old enough). Type two, the feral type, may also get used to tons of male attention when she’s in her 20s and early 30s, but she’ll likely see that attention drop over time, especially if she’s doing the typical American diet (full of sugar) and lifestyle (drives everywhere, only physical activity is going to and from the refrigerator).

The tragedy of type one is that she attracts a lot of drama of her own, and she turns down many pleasurable adventures that a more daring girl might enjoy. But, on average, chicks are much more reactive than proactive (this is why they’re rarely the founders of companies and rarely move up the ranks of existing companies) and for most chicks, nothing happens if a guy is not there to encourage it to happen. When I was younger I found this strange, and had a lot of conversations with chicks in which I would say, “Why didn’t you just do [obvious thing]?” and the chick would get huffy and say, “I just didn’t!” I’d try to pin her down on why she didn’t and she’d get huffier and angrier. Now I’m wiser in this regard and know that chicks on average are simply passive, and trying to move them out of a pretty narrow range of behaviors is wasteful, like trying to move a hill with a teaspoon.

Type one goes halfway a lot of the time and then stops… she seems like a promising lead, but she doesn’t go anywhere. In her heart and soul she’s closer to a time-waster than not. Smart players, whether they’re doing the game conventionally or non-monogamously, figure out methods and systems to sort time-wasters from non-time-wasters, the same was mineral extraction people figure out how to separate diamonds from dirt. When you find out you’ve got dirt, not diamonds, dump it and keep mining, while you also keep refining your process.

Location and logistics, married guys

A reader asks for more, “I know this is a terrible topic but . . . game for married guys seeking extramarital experiences.”

I don’t think this is my area of expertise but here goes.

Point one is, “Don’t get married,” but that’s already done so we’ll ignore it. Always start from where you are, not where you were five years ago, which is irrelevant to what you should do today. Guys ask, “Is it too old to learn the game?” Who cares, you’ll be older tomorrow than today, so you might as well start now.

Point two is, I don’t think the game changes that much. You still need good fundamentals, you still need to approach, you still need to accept rejections, etc. etc. But if you are married and trying to hide it, you also worry about your approach being rejected and then the woman telling on you to your wife… so why get married, or stay married if you already are married? Sounds like a lot of bullshit.

Big problem for those guys is also probably location and logistics. Good game is tough in suburbs and always will be. Other moms are likely targets. I’m not an expert here, I think, and location is key. If you are ready to escalate, where do you do? How do you do it? Do you have hotel apps on your phone? Do you know where the public bathrooms are for quickies? What’s the pipeline look like?

So you take the basic game… and you make it harder… and then you still play it.

There are a small number of chicks who actively prefer married guys, and a larger but still small number who don’t mind the married guy. Some chicks will actively reject married guys.

I think a lot of married guys just pay for it, for reasons of discretion and availability… if they are paying, incentives between woman and man are aligned.

Writing this out, I’m also worried about this person’s level of imagination… if he has any experience with the basics of game, most of it should be obvious? Amateurs worry about what to say, pros worry about logistics… if he is married, his logistics are probably f**ked. But for some reason I already wrote this out.

You can also do consensual non-monogamy, so read the rest of this blog to find out how.

Short Dancer vignette

I was thinking about Short Dancer, a girl I saw on and off for like six or nine months, a few years back… on and off, because at the time I wanted her to come to the fleshpots with me and she would not, despite my persuasion work. I kind of wish I’d done what she wanted and been monogamous with her for a while, or “monogamous” in my case, as I think I liked f**king her better than just about any chick between now and then, though, if I had done that, this blog wouldn’t have the stories it does. Even fewer people would read it than read it now. Despite the numbers and the experiences and the groups, I liked Short Dancer a lot, enough that I think I made the wrong decision with her, partially because I had a lot going on at the time, and, when I have a lot going on, it’s naturally harder to commit, even temporarily. Sometimes one great chick can be better than 10 okay or good ones… that’s why I think a lot of guys in the game quit it or take long breaks from it, when they find a girl they’re really into, who reciprocates the interest.

Short Dancer was young and in some ways has a conservative temperament… though in other ways, ways important to me, she does not, and the tension between those two was an interesting part of her personality. I kept trying to get her into a sex shop with me, for example, and she would not go… one time I picked her up in a fireman’s carry and made to bring her in, but her objections seemed to be genuine, so I put her down and we continued on our way. Apart from fleshpots, she accepted many of the things I wanted, and the sex with her was just about flawless… we had a great dynamic, better in some ways than w/ other chicks since then (which is why I feel like I made an error in letting her pass, to go chase other chicks who are often very good but not quite on the level of the thing we had).

Short Dancer came from an ecosystem, so there’s no game story around her. There’s also not a great story about why I like her more than other chicks… I just do. Good physical chemistry went a long way with her, plus, she also didn’t throw much in the way of shit tests and didn’t have the hot-young-chick disposition around relentlessly tooling guys, going to clubs/parties, etc. The chicks who like basic clubs, attention on social media, that kind of thing, I tend not to get along with them, even when I rope them in, and that could be part of the reason I found the Tinder experiment so awful.

Short Dancer is also one of those girls who look even better nude than clothed… I wasn’t 100% sure what I was going to get when I undressed her the first time, but I got everything I might have wanted.

No real lesson here, just some musing. When she was in my life I felt pretty good. The age gap is too large for her to be a good long-term prospect. She is one of the very few girls I find occupying my head space… I jerk my attention away from her, but if I’m not careful it drifts back to her, in a way that it doesn’t drift back to most other chicks. At the time I don’t think I appreciated her, and I was still excited to go chase new chicks… something that I find myself less excited by right now.

In private someone asked if I’ve tried to get her back in… and I have! Unsuccessfully. She also had, maybe has, an official boyfriend and both of us have complicated schedules, plus now there is a distance challenge. We all make mistakes. Letting her go was probably one of mine, and not one that I really consciously made at the time… I let her drift, and she sensed that I wasn’t going to do the monogamy she wanted. Red Pill doctrine incorrectly holds that chicks who you are “aloof” from are going to pine for you and keep coming after you forever… that is true of some chicks, but more functional, intelligent, and self-aware chicks who want a boyfriend/partner and do not get it from you, are going to cut you out and get it from someone else. They may boomerang back periodically based on what they’re finding, but when they find an acceptable guy who will commit, they will depart.

I miss Short Dancer… not something you hear on a lot of player blogs. Do most guys not miss particular chicks, or are they not willing to admit it? Genuinely don’t know the answer here. The best psychology is always oriented towards the future, so maybe guys wisely don’t dwell on the past.

“The Startling Rise of Choking During Sex”

“The Startling Rise of Choking During Sex” is not so startling… the massive success of 50 Shades of Grey demonstrates that women really, really, really, really like rough sex (not all of them, of course, but a whole lot of them). Guys learn to experiment with choking and find that, when done well, the chick enjoys it more and comes harder than she does without it… so the practise spreads… and now it’s mainstream and many chicks are disappointed if they’re not choked during the act. It’s so mainstream that the Atlantic writes about it. It’s more mainstream than dinner dates (most chicks hate dinner dates).

Guys who have read My Secret Garden already know the depths of female fantasy… but most guys just don’t get it, and women flit from guy to guy until they find one who does. To be sure choking can be hazardous and it has to be done deftly, and built up to… but done right, it bonds the chick to you more effectively (like going raw). It’s good to start by playing with her neck a little bit and asking how that feels, then lightly cupping her neck with her hand and seeing her response, and then move up from there. I’m sure lots of teenagers and young dumb guys try to mimic what they see in porn, with bad results that legitimately scare young and inexperienced chicks.

The Internet, amateur porn, game blogs, etc. also let the secret out… that chicks like to be choked. I remember the first time I had a chick put my hand around her throat… before I knew about the game, the forums, the blogs… I was like 23/24, and we were making out against a parked car after drinking at a bar. I was not 100% into her (I can’t recall her name) but didn’t have anything better going on at the time. We were there and then a f**king COP car pulled past us, and I stood back from her (quite a ways). The cop car stopped like half a block away from us and I just talked to her and that sort of thing, wondering WTF I was going to say to the police… but they started driving again after a minute or two. Who knows, maybe the cop(s) didn’t see anything and were stopping for some other reason… if I recall correctly the girl wouldn’t go home with me that night, and it took an outright date to seal it… but she was marginal and I think there was some SMV mismatch, as she was more into me than I was into her. I don’t recall if I was appropriately courteous to her afterwards… probably not, as I had worse manners then.

That chick was bold, but I didn’t have the mental framework necessary to integrate what she was communicating to me. That came later. I was startled when she took my hand and put it around her neck. Although I’d had a decent amount of sexual experience by then, I didn’t have the experiences or network to contextualize what that meant, or that the desire to be choked is common. Today I can’t pinpoint a single moment or experience when I realized women’s love of BDSM. Red Coco has a post about sex skills and I have one coming as well… there’s not much explicit commentary on this subject in the community and there should be more. I theorize that most guys are not actually getting laid much. Also, once a guy masters the toolkit, there’s a limited amount he can elaborate on it, and most of us forget how much we had to learn to get where we are today.

Today, there are also some explicit video websites that also have educational “how-to” videos on this subject. I don’t want to post links to them here as I believe that will hurt search engine rank, but you can find them yourself or contact me privately if you want some links.

Who counts and who doesn’t in the game

A guy wants to know why I wrote that the two chicks from Tinder don’t really count… I don’t have a hard ruleset for who “counts,” and the principles drift over time: for these two, one girl was hot but also kind of dopey, and I can’t tell how much she liked me against how much she was trying to pump me for information about how to be a prostitute, while a real proper lay in my view has to be about two people who like each other, or like each other enough to f**k. I’m not convinced that I liked her enough, or she liked me enough, or that there wasn’t some financial value exchange going on… felt a little too much like consulting. I’ve also been on a couple dates in my life with younger chicks who were basically pumping me for career advice (if you go on enough dates with enough chicks, weird shit happens). It’s possible that I could have kept with her longer, not done the “nuclear” version of asking her to do a sex club… maybe it would have developed. But she is not who I’m looking for, despite her being hot. I also didn’t feel any connection and think she was the same, so why bother? She will drift off one way or another.

The other one wasn’t hot enough and also I should have just quit beforehand.

What “hot enough” means is going to depend on the guy in question. For me… usually she’s a high 6 at a minimum, more likely a 7. Honestly… 6s… some are “okay.” I can work the right one, it depends on the girl, though… if she is a high 6, on the low 7 border… she might “count.” On Tinder I couldn’t even hit that standard, and most of the chicks liking me were 5s or below, way off my own internal standards.

Like, if I were having intercourse with 5s… I could do it all day… it’s not really game… it’s just SMV mis-match. It wouldn’t be that much different from Keanu Reeves with 8s… he is a rich famous actor, so there is little “game” needed for him. He can just be. I could f**k a different fat chick every night, and, aside from wanting to kill myself before, during, and after, I could brag about all the chicks I’m getting because I’M SUCH AN ALPHA MALE HEAR ME ROAR.

“Who counts” also depends on where the guy is coming from… if you are a fat, video-game-playing f**kin idiot, and you manage to get a 4 or 5… that might “count” for you (even as you are working to improve yourself, right? right?). Depends on where you are… you want to be seeking chicks who are at the edge of your skills and abilities. If a low SMV guy is chasing 7+ chicks, he is probably signing up for loads of unpleasant rejection that may have psychological ramifications. This is also why I think you can safely ignore guys online writing about how all chicks are evil and bitches and on and on… chances are the guy is experiencing SMV mismatch. Same with chicks saying all guys are evil and assholes… chances are she’s fat and experiencing SMV mismatch.

For me… 8+ chicks will NEVER be easy, not consistently… there aren’t many, and I’m now outside of their most typical age ranges, in most cases. Sometimes I will be an 8’s natural type and it will be easy, but that is uncommon. I doubt 8 are easy for most guys talking online, consciously thinking about the game, like deadlifting twice your weight is not easy for almost any guy. Guys who are naturally gettin 8+ chicks… they’re probably not online.

Most guys online appear to exaggerate their achievements, god knows why as who really gives a f**k? It’s also not a totally objective process… some of the best sexual chemistry I’ve had has not been with the objectively hottest chicks, though the correlation is strong.

I also think a lot of the guys who get their game together, drop out of the online conversation, because they have nothing to add… and the vast majority of the online conversation is newbies talking to each other. Nothing wrong with being a newbie, but you can only answer basic questions so many times before you’re like, “dude, go read the background on this topic.”

Oh, I was wrong about the Tinder thing, it is that bad

I was wrong, and you all (as well as my younger friend) were right. Some context: a younger guy I know through work recently got what he perceives to be a nuclear breakup, in which his girlfriend of four years standing just dumped him… without any warnings that he picked up. More likely, he is an oblivious younger guy who thinks he is the man and had started taking the chick for granted and/or ignoring her subtler signs. Or who knows, maybe she did just wake up and drop him one day.

He was devastated for a month then signed up for online dating, like everyone else, notably on Tinder, and it was not good for him. I’ve met his ex and she’s quite attractive, although I suspect she’s going to run to fat due to low discipline… probably a low 8 today and might have been higher when they met. My friend got on Tinder and a few weeks ago started telling me how bad it has been for him. I said that it can’t be that bad, relying on my four, five year old memories of it… I bragged to him, “I will make a Tinder account, lie about my age, and I’ll show you how to do it.” Mentally, I thought, “It can’t be that hard, especially with good pictures.” I also told him to Google “daygame” and read the Neil Strauss book, but I don’t think he’s done either.

I did make the Tinder account and it has changed. The number of matches I got, even with very similar profiles, dropped majorly. I paid for the version that shows me who likes my profile, and my Tinder reaction is, “Where are all these fat chicks coming from?” While I too have read about how half of Americans are fat and another quarter “overweight” (polite term for fat)… I have never seen so many fat chicks in one place. I guess they are invisible to me in everyday life, unless they are blocking the sidewalk or I have to sit next to a sugar addict on a plane.

I ought to apologize to my colleague/friend and to the guys online who I privately doubted… RP Murphy / Red Pill Dad has been writing about this, and I’m glad I didn’t say anything publicly, because he is correct and I was not.

I was on Tinder for like 10 – 12 days and two girls of note came out on dates. One of them had a Snapchat listed, so I messaged her on there… she replied (surprising, as she was hot) and quickly told me that she is “sort of” a “model and escort girl.” I told her that’s fine and then told her that I’ve dated girls who are sex workers before (this is true, albeit non-monogamously). Sent her some pics of us together. She then began asking me how much they charged an hour! And how much she should charge. I began laughing out loud and told her that she was thinking about it all wrong and that we should talk about it over drinks. She said okay.

Over drinks we talked about why she wants to do it, what she’s doing with her life (kind of in school, but her answers are flakey enough to make me think not in school), and I am studiously watching her eyes and not her prominently displayed tits. After a while, at the second bar, I tell her a little bit about what I understand about the sex work business.

Being an escort who makes good money and (ideally) avoids bad situations is only partly about having an available pussy and a good body. The rest of it is a mix of psychologist, customer service, and understanding the male mind. Most guys are not looking *just* for sex… Nash has been talking on Twitter lately about how guys are emotional about chicks, just not in the way that many chicks expect. Most guys, even guys who don’t want to commit are not seeking totally mechanical casual sex where they nut, roll over, and leave… they are seeking to connect with the chick. But many chicks are too f**ked up to let the proper connection happen. There is some more to this argument… I hope we get a Nash post on it soon.

Back to the story, two bars, some kissing between bars, some making out in bar #2, and she comes back but is a little skittish. She is also pretty young and maybe not used to hooking up with adult guys in adult guy spaces, so I pour the wine and after some wine do the kissing again. I can tell that she’s nervous and I call it out. She admits she’s nervous and I tell her not to be, but I’m getting kind of weird energy so I pull back and do a “back to college” move and suggest we watch something on Netflix… I have an account for a reason… so I pick Sense8… seems to be my go-to for some reason, and we start watching on a computer. It seems to work because she relaxes. The escort talk is mostly gone and after ten or 15 minutes we’re f**king and it’s actually quite nice.

After she re-opens the escort talk… and I’m thinking, “Has she just ‘paid’ me for more advice about sex work?” To be honest I think the answer is yes. I go on with the spiel, guys are there for sex but also for validation, for a pretty girl to tell him he’s handsome, he’s good in bed, his wife doesn’t appreciate him properly, his boss should give him a promotion, etc. etc. Not as crudely as I’ve put it here, but good sex workers do all those things… and are usually seeking more like a monthly allowance situation, which means less sex (mileage on her pussy) and more money. All things that guys who have been consultants of any kind understand… you want to get out of the “commodity service provider” category and into the “essential business practice and improvement category.” Like the consulting things discussed here.

She seems pretty impressed, although she won’t let me shoot nude pics (how is she going to escort??), and she stays over. We have another two sex-dates together. I learn her parents are divorced… not good… she admits she is between schools right now… she reminds me a little bit of Low-cut top girl, although hotter and less combative, but a little bit lost and with f**ked up intersex dynamics. Despite her physical attractiveness I could not get into her and during the third date suggested that we go to a sex club together. I’d seeded the idea a little bit with the concept that monogamy is strange if you think about it… but she was not receptive and then ghosted me.

The other chick was a high 6 or so, not as attractive as her pics, but had a decently bright and bubbly personality. We told a lot of dating stories, then moved into more life trajectory and emotional ideas… she seemed to vibe with it… two venues, back to my place, we start kissing again and she stops me to say that we can’t do this if I’m just going to ghost her. I tell her my views on ghosting, articulated at the link, but then I also turn into a girl and say, “You’re right, we shouldn’t do this tonight.” That’s often a line from game, but I mean it… I just don’t want to bang a girl who’s going to get hurt by it after… I can tell she is wrong for me (not hot enough, smart enough, personality not good enough), and then the script reverses and she says she really wants to and that she wasn’t trying to stop me. I tell her honestly that I don’t think we’re right for each other… she then gets on her knees and starts blowing me, to recapture momentum… I’m saying that I don’t think we should do this and I don’t want to set bad expectations that I am not going to live up to… she has stopped talking and keeps performing… it does feel like a performance, which is not my favorite feeling, but in the end I am still a guy and go with it.

We do date two… it’s also okay… before we have sex I just break out the idea of going to a sex club (also prematurely)… she is not into it either and looks like she’s going to cry as well… and she talks pretty bitterly about how guys just want to f**k and no one wants a relationship. Two chicks off Tinder, two sessions in tears or near tears. I’m kind of depressed, but I ask her about what the guys on Tinder have in common… she doesn’t know… I give her a version of “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures,” and I tell her that she’s probably like most people doing online dating and trying to get guys who are at least 20% more attractive than her, and that’s almost always going to lead her to disappointment. Like most people, she is dumb and wants to know if I’m saying she’s ugly. She’s not ugly, not at all, but attractiveness is a spectrum… if she is trying to date guys higher than her… guys who look good online… she is going to have problems. I don’t think she is receptive to this and it probably just makes her angry. I tell her she should just stop doing monogamy… this doesn’t seem to make her happy either. We have sex anyway, about an hour later, and the next day I tell her that I like her but that I think she is looking for someone who is not me. She doesn’t reply. Ghosted again.

These two are out of probably 100+ chicks I have liked or messaged via Instagram or Snapchat. Neither one of them really count properly in my opinion. Most of the Instagram ones did not reply. Makes me think about, Could Instagram be becoming an important adjunct to game?

So what do I think about Tinder?

I’m pretty confident Tinder gives paying customers boosts up and beyond whatever they say they do, so I bought the premium features. One of them lets me see who has liked me. Almost everyone who did, was fat. Literally, where are all these fat girls? They must be all around me, and I just don’t notice them at all, unless they’re in my way (to be fair, they often are). I’d guess that you need to buy the better versions of Tinder to make a go at all.

What happened to Tinder? Some possibilities include…

1. I’m doing it wrong somehow. Maybe I need longer conversations. I’m not and never have been a fan of long online conversations, because ten minutes in person will reveal compatibility far better than ten hours of online conversation, but the market may have shifted in that direction.

2. My profile is/was too tuned to jackass party boy. I changed it halfway through.

3. Lack of Instagram presence is holding me back.

4. I didn’t put enough time in: in my defense, this was a pretty low time commitment… previous forays in this world have shown that 90% of the output emerges from like 10% of the time, and that if it doesn’t happen pretty fast, it’s time to move on and try another strategy. It took the belligerents in WWI way too many years to learn that horses are worthless and charging into entrenched machine gun positions is stupid. Humans are resistant to reality and I am not an exception, however much I want to fancy myself one.

5. Something else I’m not aware of.

Out of the ten or so acceptably attractive and seemingly normal chicks I matched with, two wanted to go on dates apart from the 6, both were bad (see below). Generally, I unmatched pretty quickly if the date wasn’t going to happen, or removed them from Instagram if that was the contact point. My sense from talking to people in real life is that many people let matches sit there and linger for weeks and months… this seems to provide chicks with a sense of unlimited possibility, which is bad (for guys as well as the chicks themselves, I think). Guys should un-match or block the chicks if it’s not moving forward pretty rapidly.

Also, I hadn’t 100% appreciated the extent to which some chicks are into Instagram. A large percentage of chicks appear to be chasing Instagram attention; how many deeply understand that online attention is garbage? I don’t recall this from long-ago forays into Tinder. To do online seriously, I think need an Instagram thing as an extension of online dating. Fortunately, I don’t want that.

One entertaining girl I messaged on Snapchat, a standard opener. Opened, no reply from her. Then I did a Torero-like recovery text, figuring that I’d see what happened, and she replied, “You have to understand I get a million messages a day, I only reply to the pictures.” Incredibly bitchy, but also maybe good advice. I replied the same is true of me (it isn’t, thank God) and wished her luck. And then removed her.

My impression from interacting with people in their 20s is that a lot of guys retain random chicks on social media accounts when they shouldn’t… this is bad for the guy (his brain incorrectly thinks he’s got a shot) and addictive to the chick (cause chicks love attention). I did message some chicks (on Instagram, it appears you can message chicks without following them), and then removed them when they didn’t reply or didn’t want to go on a date. Perhaps this is the “wrong” thing and chicks watch guys’s feeds, then message the ones they find interesting. If so, that seems like a terrible way to be in the game, but, again, I could be wrong on this.

If this online thing is really how 20-somethings are trying to pair off, I understand why they are all miserable… I don’t mean to be an old codger, but something has gone seriously wrong. The number of articles about social and emotional problems in Gen Z is enormous. If they are on Tinder, I see why… it is so damn depressing, far more depressing than I could have imagined, far more depressing than daygame (or maybe I have enough practice to not to be too hurt by blowouts?). And the number of fat chicks… it’s like a zombie army of them. Chicks must also be unhappy because so many of them are too fat to attract a man’s attention and lack the fortitude to implement the simple systems needed to be height-weight appropriate. I have long disliked the arguments about modern life being fundamentally f**ked up, but using Tinder makes me think they have some validity.

I can see why some non-elite guys get radicalized by attempting Tinder, since it’s a depressing and yet awesome display of female privilege… female privilege has always existed, of course, but it’s not been so in your face… a huge parade of attractive chicks, all implicitly saying “no.” Worse than them is the even larger parade of not-so-attractive chicks, all also saying no.

Apart from the two chicks I told stories about, I did go out with two other random chicks who turned out to be fatter than I thought. Did chit-chat for an hour… I will say that fatter chicks are way more engaged and work harder to impress me, but it just… doesn’t work. I can’t be bothered. I feel bad for fat chicks. Just not bad enough to try and bang ’em.

How many guys stay with a woman not because they’re excited about her, but because they don’t think they can do any better? Bet a lot of guys do.

Among the two non-fatties I met, the would-be prostitute is the more interesting one. Has the figure for it. But she is just not that smart, which I could tell by talking to her and trying to explain some about what successful prostitutes do (it isn’t just the sex).

She also wouldn’t let me shoot nude photos of her at all, even though shooting a chick nude is somewhat normal today, especially at the beginning of an affair, but refusing is strange for someone who is going to let strangers shoot loads into her for money.

With both chicks, I told them a lot about what I actually think, and that was probably “bad game.” I was having a Twitter conversation about “honesty” versus “social skills” or “palatability” recently, where one guy said you should be scrupulously honest with everything you say to chicks. It’s an opinion and I understand why he has it. But I think it’s also a good idea to have the social skills to know what you should say and when you should say it… to take a non-game example, if you have a junior colleague who wants to take an assignment he’s not ready for, you could say, “No. You suck.” In some circumstances that could be appropriate, but in many cases it will sting him and make him hate you.

You could instead say to him, “What skills do you think the assignment needs?” Lead him down that path. Ask him what he thinks he’ll be doing in that assignment. Ask him how he thinks he’ll handle some of the challenges that arise. If he can’t answer some of those questions… he’s likely to see the problems for himself. And then you can say, “Work on those skills, show me work product [x], and then we’ll talk again.”

Same effect, different outcome, right?

Sometimes being super blunt is the right thing to do. More often, it will alienate people, especially early on. With the 8… she lacks the internal ability to realize she’s not that smart and as a result has not thought through the various things that her job entails. Maybe she will learn them over time, but I’m not sure she has the intelligence to do that. Her emotional intelligence doesn’t seem to be particularly high either. I warned her that there’s a good solid chance she’s going to have some really negative experiences if she’s meeting totally unknown guys for paid sex off Tinder.

She almost started crying (second date). Didn’t quite cry, but almost. I tried to comfort her some… and told her to get a job as a hostess at a restaurant or something like that. She has had jobs like that, but the pay is not high and at the last one some guy working there was apparently chasing her around, thinking she’s a free bread basket and he wants to dive in for the goodies. Although her story was somewhat garbled. She seemed to be looking at me for moral support and I kind of shrugged and was like, “That’s guys.” Put your foot down. I don’t know, call the police if he’s touching her without her consent. She strikes me as the sort of girl who can’t say no properly, who will do so in a flirty way that says to men, “Come hither.”

Or… who knows… maybe she was f**king the guy, and some other guy was jealous and made things uncomfortable for her. This is another “narrative” thing. Most chicks complaining of “sexual harassment…” it’s bullshit. It’s abetted partially by the chick, like most guys who get conned are getting conned because they’re trying to get something for nothing.

Both these chicks are examples of how NOT to seed non-monogamy. To do it properly, a chick has to be invested in you and has to be largely in your frame. It should be done like 6 – 12 weeks after the initial sex. I used it here (and have used it in similar circumstances) as a filter for chicks I’m not 100% into… they can get introduced to the world, I can get credit for bringing new chicks in, etc. It’s a low probability play that I use in situations when I’m going to let the girl go anyway… so I might as well test to see if she has deep non-monogamous fantasies that I can engage. In both their cases, the answer is no, or I just couldn’t be bothered to do it right.

What a depressing experience… there seems to have been a “golden age” of online dating from like 2006 – 2014 or 2015… when being online got old enough to make online dating not be too weird, but before smartphones and the masses destroyed it.

I think I also haven’t properly appreciated an ecosystem advantage I have (or had, as I am pretty much letting it go, I think). The power of real-world meeting has always been large, but it seems to have actually grown as more people have heaved themselves online.

I feel like kind of an idiot for mentally scoffing at the guys who denigrate online dating apps… I dunno, maybe Bumble works better, because it forces chicks to make a decision. Overall, though, some of the anger among the Red Pill communities makes a little more sense… if my primary experience of dating were of online dating, I’d think women are idiots too… although I’d be wrong, I’d be basing that view off a limited number of women and a circumstance not favorable to guys. The anger of women towards men also makes a little more sense… women don’t actually like having to choose between 30 different, very similar appearing guys, I think. At the same time, they go out with the hottest-seeming guys… get f**ked… then the guy moves on… then the woman posts something online about how ALL MEN ARE DOGS… because she is chasing the OMG hottest guy, who has lots of other options. Truly a situation to breed discord. In real life, people who behave as dysfunctionally as they do online will fail.

I also don’t believe women who can’t find dates online. They are being unreasonable and not dating effectively.

A lot of younger chicks also seem to be social retards. They’re spending too much time online and not enough time in the real world. Social retards who spend too much time online make themselves even more socially retarded. This applies to guys too and explains why so much of the Red Pill discourse is retarded… it’s being driven by guys who are spending 4+ hours a day online, instead of going out into the real world and meeting chicks. Or even other guys. A lot of younger chicks seem more socially retarded than they did when I was like 20. Japan shows us where we’re going.

So many people are living contrary to human nature. Too much time online, too much sugar and simple carbs, not enough time exercising, no time creating. Too much consuming, too little creating. Half of teenagers have social/emotional problems like anxiety and depression… because of how we live now… and we are too addled to learn how to live properly. We are meant to interact with other humans in real life… not an infinite sprawl of their shitty pics online, working for social media companies without being paid for it.

There is a meta lesson here, too, which is that real experience beats theorizing. I didn’t appreciate how f**king bad it is. In a few relatively short years, the whole thing changed around. I also didn’t appreciate how mal-adaptive a lot of the female behavior seems to be online. Or is it that the adaptive chicks just get snapped up faster? Whatever the source is, I was just f**king wrong. It’s humbling to be so wrong.

I would guess that it can be useful to use online dating once every 2 – 3 months to pick up any easy pickings who are new to online… otherwise, not at all… and like I said, it’s just f**king depressing.

If I am a high-quality guy (I let others make that determination), I made the Tinder market a little bit worse when I deleted my account. Who is left when the high-quality people with good social skills and lives leave?

I will say that I feel validated in pursuing the non-monogamy dating patterns I’ve followed, as dating couples and some single chicks WITH a chick is way more fun than pursuing it alone. Doing so has also helped me develop pretty large social networks through friends and friends-of-friends. When a woman breaks up with her boyfriend, her first source of new dick is often guys she already knows… and ideally guys she’s already f**ked… meaning, me.

I knew that non-monogamous dating is a kind of force-multiplier effect: more sex with less work. Until this experiment I didn’t appreciate how much the force-multiplier works. I had thought it was like a multiplier of 1.5 or 1.75 or something like that. Now I think it’s like a 3 – 5x multiplier, at least if you’re a guy who just wants more sex with hot chicks… Nash seems to like relatively inexperienced chicks, with particular life histories… the kinds of chicks who are not going to end up at sex clubs, for the most part… so for someone like that, what I’ve done is the wrong route. For someone like me, this seems like it’s been an incredible deal, which I didn’t understand until recently. Seeing the conventional-dating online wasteland has changed my view. Now I think I am more of an advocate for this than I was, for a guy who wants sex with a lot of different women.

Maybe all the supposed Tinder hookup stories are about fat chicks.

Maybe I’m doing it wrong and need to tone down the fuckboy profile.

Maybe I should actually amp up the profile and make it all about bondage, paddles, and discreetly anonymized chicks who are tied up (that’s one way to filter). I speculate on this because Feeld has been okay for me, as I wrote above, though it does depend on starting w/ a hot chick.

It’s been a while since I’ve been this provably wrong.

This tweet is interesting… I find it almost unbelievable and wonder if this pattern is common. We may also be in a cycle where on Tinder chicks are shit to guys, so the better guys leave it… as the better guys leave, the better chicks do as well… and then the chicks are bitchy to the guys, and the guys are trying a mass-contact strategy, leaving everyone poorly off.

Despite a low or moderate amount of effort I technically slept with two chicks, but the escort one is too weird to “count” as a proper lay and the other one is not really hot enough IMO. While I’ve done worse I don’t see any reason to count her. It sapped my spirit… I don’t think f**king an 8 has ever sapped my spirit before… this is a new feeling.

Overall, this experiment points to the need for in-person approach over online. Something has gone terribly wrong w/ the online world in the last 4 – 5 years. I hadn’t appreciated how badly that’s happened.