Peaches, Stephanie, Ms. Slav updates and thoughts

Not much to report. Have seen Stephanie (1) again and I think she is turning into a reliable once-a-week girl. Easy lay, good in bed. Says she has a cold or flu so she may be out for this weekend. Also has gone to the gym with me once and shows interest in black iron, compound lifts, and I like that. Very strong sexual chemistry. She’s a loud, involved lover. Extremely satisfying. She is very girl, very feminine, in ways I like and appreciate. We spent some time talking shit about social media.

Have seen Peaches (2) again. Also very satisfying sex. She seems not to understand how hot she is, and she told me some unusual background material about her and her teenage life on the Internet. She is a bit too much of a follower, and that has harmed her economic life. I can’t imagine she is going to stay married, but I think she only wants upheaval in one part of her life right now. I told her about Ms. Slav and Stephanie. We may go to a party together in the next few weeks.

Peaches also says she wants to have a family. This perked my ears. I’ve been thinking about that comment since she dropped it. That would be an intersting line to pursue. Very unlikely that I will pursue it, given the myriad of problems with this line, but we seem to be more aligned in many ways than most girls. She is also in the right age range for me. Younger is great for fun, but girls under the age of 27 or 28 will not work with me for any kind of longer relationship, more substantial relationship.

Peaches entered the non-monogamous world relatively recently and may be getting her total f**k fest phase out of her system. If/when she does… it is not inconceivable to imagine going further with her, based on what I know now. “Not inconceivable” is a low bar.

Speaking of, Roy Walker said something intersting…

Towards the end of the year the apathy was starting to set it. It had been a long one and I went through a lot of girls. As was probably apparent in my posts, I was getting fed up. I would frequently think about two things;

What is the point of all this?
What is my endgame?

The point is obviously to meet and have sex with new girls as we are apparently biologically programmed to do as males. I really enjoy meeting new girls on the street and dating them, the chase, it’s great fun. But then you bang them and then what?

In my earlier days I would bask in the glory of a new notch for almost a week. Now that glorious feeling lasts around 5 minutes. I wrote a drunken tweet [4] about feeling empty inside after a recent notch.

Sound familiar? Sure does to me. “Player disease” you might call it. He says he is in his early 30s, so a bit young for those feelings, but they are not unheard of among guys who’ve been in the game a couple years. Some of us, we’re a bit like Tolkien’s Elves, still living in Middle-earth but thinking about going West.

Before I become too insufferably melancholy, Ms. Slav (3) is back and heard about Stephanie and me, and she was or is unhappy about that. Not unhappy enough not to f**k me, fortunately. She still seems not to get reciprocity? I talked to Peaches about this dilemma / behavior. The talk with Ms. Slav led to another long talk about principles, but I am not sure Ms. Slav completely absorbed it. She may also be intuiting or feeling my own uncertainty about her. I like her… but our age disparity is too great… and she is too sexually active even for me. If had run into her ten years ago, even five, I might have gone for it. Not today.

No great stories about heroic pickup, just a continuation of previous threads.

It is so interesting talking to people—really talking to them—and they are so different in private than they are on social media. The more I talk to people, deeply, the more I think social media is garbage. The gap between the internal self and the external self is too wide for it to be interesting. All three of the women listed in the title, their true lives are very different from their social media lives. All three of them are much more minimally involved with social media than typical 18 – 30 year old women, but even then the gap is large. Stephanie has a job that involves some social media use. I seem to get along better with girls who are not social-media addicts.

Another random thought, I have read a bunch of game or RP guys saying that cooking and eating good food is for chicks and they just open up some cans and eat over the sink. Maybe I am just hungrier, but I make food most days and am diligent about what I eat. I suppose it’s possible to maintain reasonable nutrition with tuna, olives, nuts, etc., but I like variety too much to do that.

If you did not read read this post, please go read it.

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Profiling girls by age is not that useful

I’ve read a lot of posts and questions about profiling girls by age. I don’t think it’s very useful to profile girls by age, because girls vary too much by type. I read a lot of, “Women over 30 are no longer looking for just sex like younger women.” But I’m considerably over age 30 and this isn’t true at all: Women over age 30 who have partied a lot and are tired of partying, are looking for a provider guy to have kids with. They probably won’t be interested in casual sex offers.

But women over age 30 who have gotten out of a marriage or LTR… watch out. They are ready to fuck.

I think it varies some by life course so far. A lot of people (more than The Red Pill would have you believe) get sucked into long-term, monogamous or mostly monogamous relationships through a lot of their 20s. Many of those relationships dissolve in the late 20s or early 30s. For those people… men and women… the dissolution often leads to a casual sex explosion.

Meantime, a lot of people party through their 20s… have lots of casual sex… and in their 30s they’re tired of that ride. So they shift gears and want to have a family. This applies to both guys and chicks, too. There’s a reason a lot of 25-year-old guys get in the game, and a lot of 35 – 40-year-old guys have experienced enough to want to have a family, rather than chase around vapid flakey chicks for sex.

There’s also a meme going around that young chicks, 18 – 24, they’re just looking for tons of casual sex. There are chicks like this. There are also a lot of chicks who are more conservative and inexperienced than guys on the Internet would have you believe. Who find the prospect of sex kind of scary. Who find men in general scary (if also intriguing). Some young chicks can be conservative and gradually lose their sexually conservative temperament through experience. I have met and sometimes talked to these girls.

I have also been called every imaginable name by young chicks (“gross,” “disgusting,” “you’re old enough to be my dad,” etc.). Those young chicks… are not for me. I’ve also been told I’m everything amazing by young chicks (“no one has ever done that to me.” “I can’t move my leg.” “You’re making me fall in love with you”). The difference is in the chick, more than in me.

What I’m saying is that I don’t think profiling chicks by age is that useful. There is a lot of noise in the data. It’s definitely true that a lot of 28 – 40 year old chicks are looking for a provider guy. It’s also true that a lot of chicks in that age bracket are exiting long-term relationships and want to f**k some guys to get it out of their systems, or just for the pleasure of it. It’s also true that some chicks love sexual variety throughout their life spans. Some chicks are prudes throughout their life spans.

I can’t tell you how many divorced women I’ve met at sex clubs. Some are even attractive.

For a guy, focus less on age and more on who a girl really is. Focus on improving your own value. Focus on accepting that most chicks will say no most of the time. Don’t be too worried about generalizing about chicks based on age.

Environment will matter too. If a chick is living in the Midwest, and all her friends are getting married and having kids, she will want to do the same. If you put the same chick in NYC, and all her friends are having casual sex, she will want to do the same. If she is in front of her whole family, she will be reticent. If she is on vacation, she might be down for casual sex. Much more than men, chicks are products of their environment. This is part of the reason players learn to be non-judgmental. Chicks learn to be shamed for their sexuality throughout their entire lives. When chicks find a guy who doesn’t do that to them, they often get very very excited.

What kind of guy is willing to appear in these articles?

Commenter Jake says,

I read the first link (as much of it as I could stomach) and I can only concur with Nash’s comment to the second link that poly in the US must be a “shitshow”. If consensual non-monogamy wants to become widespread, it needs to distance itself from these new-age-nooky nutjobs. Indigo wants to change the world by making others refer to her as “them” (but using the personal pronoun when talking about themself!), and screwing a few lame-ass soyboys who couldn’t even construct an IKEA bookshelf, let alone a coherent society. SMH

He’s mostly right. But: cool, masculine guys doing poly, don’t want to come out to the world as doing poly: they don’t want to humiliate themselves, humiliate the women they’re with, or disrupt their jobs and lives. Cool, masculine guys doing poly do it under the radar, in private conversations. They (we?) don’t want to be activists and don’t want to be associated by the kind of losers who appear in qz.com articles.

Most people want to associate with cooler and higher-status people, and no one willing to speak up for being poly is either. That’s because open and poly are too disruptive to the normal social order. So the only people who speak up are freaks, outliers, etc. Being publicly non-monogamous under your real name is a good way to lose a lot of real-world jobs, paying real-world rent.

There aren’t good, public spokespeople for this. Maybe there never will be. Cool women don’t want to be publicly non-monogamous because, if they do, they kill their ability to get one guy to commit to them, even as a primary partner. Coming out as publicly open is just saying, “Hit it and quit it.” Cool guys don’t want to perceived as a “cuck.” There is not much benefit to being super public and many costs. So who gets quoted? People with nothing to lose. Kooks and weirdos. Anyone remotely mainstream, stays away.

A few of my friends know a little about what I do. Almost none from the mainstream world know it all. They know a little bit, revealed in dribs and drabs. Most importantly, some of them see the fruits. If you’re a guy and you’re seen with a lot of cute or even hot chicks… your friends are going to be a lot more curious and interested in the non-mainstream parts of your life. Thta’s where something like “Ms. Slav at Thanksgiving” comes into play. Many of my friends and family have seen some evidence of the “not mainstream” parts of my life. They are curious about it because guys like me “shouldn’t” be banging some of the chicks I’ve banged. So they ask questions… I drop a thing here or there… and let them put it together.

You know how no normal chick has an Excel spreadsheet of every guy she’s dated? Few normal chicks will admit to the number of guys they’ve f**ked, all at once? Chicks are the master of trickle truth. Guys have an engineering mindset and want to explain everything. It can be useful to not explain everything all at once. It’s like my “rules for talking about RP concepts.” Guys shouldn’t use the jargon and, first and foremost, they themselves should be seen as cool and socially desirable (“The real knowledge comes not from what you say but how you live. Your life is the best example”). If you cannot do that first, no one wants to hear from you. No one wants to hear about wealth management and creation from some guy living paycheck-to-paycheck, on the verge of being fired from his job. They want to hear about it from Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger.

Do first, speak later.

The best players I think I’ve ever met, in real life, haven’t identified as players. They don’t brag about their conquests (they don’t need to). They’re a little bit “Under the radar.” Women love being seduced… preferably by a guy they think is “naturally” seducing them. I know the concept of being a “natural” is ridiculous to anyone who is not one, but that’s chick logic for you.

Almost no hot chicks will want to be with a publicly “poly” guy. Their friends will make fun of them. But a lot more chicks than you’d think will go for this sort of thing if it’s pitched to them properly. A guy who gets women will understand the female need for covert sexual behavior. So that kind of guy will not want to be publicly poly.

Plus, a guy who comes out as poly is saying to every other guy, “Take a shot at my girl.” He’s saying, “My girl might be down to bend over for you.” As I have said many times, the bulk of the non-monogamy community is about guys trading value for value. When a guy announces he is poly, he is leaving a pile of sandwiches on the table, or a stack of cash… whoever happens by is going to try and grab that value. Smart guys (mostly) don’t want to offer value without getting it in return. But when you identify as poly in an ultra-public way, you are doing just that.

A publicly poly guy is almost all drawback and almost no gain. So what kind of guy will do it? Right. I don’t want to be publicly known as a player, although many of my friends may infer that about me. I don’t want to be publicly known as poly, although many of my friends may infer that about me, too. But there is a big important gap between “inference” and “public knowledge.”

Think about chicks on vacation. When they’re away from most friends and family, they’ll do things they won’t do at home, because those things are less likely to to affect their reputations. Similar thing here. Most guys with something to lose, don’t want to “come out” as poly.

Interesting Wednesday night. Happy New Year!

So, Wednesday night after Christmas some friends are having a party. About 20 people are there. It’s the day after Christmas, so most people have no or minimal work. I go alone; Peaches, Ms. Slav, Home Friend, and other recent guests in my life are home seeing their families. Most of the guests there have seen me with Ms. Slav. The people there either haven’t gone home to see their families or are tired of their families and frisky for something else; I think I’m going to socialize for a while and check out early,

There is a girl there who I’ve seen around before. She’s most interested in rope bondage. We’ll call her Stephanie. She is pretty, a high 6 / low 7, but I like her vibe. Also the pervy twinkle in her eye. Some chicks just exude the sense that they’re up for it, they’ll be good at it, and they’ll make it a fun time. She has that vibe. There are also not a lot of unoccupied girls there, and she’s one. She has an interesting job.

In the forthcoming non-monogamy book I talk a little bit about girls who like bondage or similar activities more than actual sex. Usually that’s more typical of girls, but in this case, this guy in the scene is not very interested in f**king and loves ropes. This guy is very curious, as his drives are different than mine. He’s very sedate and seems to like tying chicks up much more than he likes f**king them. Don’t ask me why, people have their own things going on. He doesn’t f**k them at all, from what I can see. He brings his whole rope setup to parties, though. Because of his personality and interests, he is very popular at parties… I have seen him tie up like eight or ten chicks in a given night. Why so few, over so many hours? The guy is efficient but takes his time, making incredibly intricate patterns. Chicks who like rope even a little bit LOVE him, and, as I said, he is not doing this as a prelude to f**king the chick, like I would be. So chicks don’t have to make a f**k/no f**k decision about him when they ask to be tied up. It’s a “no f**k” decision, and that means more chicks will do it. He gets off on the tying up, I guess? I don’t totally get it.

I’m spending some time describing him because he’s unusual and because the typical guy online will be like, “lol beta cuck wut.” That is not exactly him, although maybe elements of those slurs can apply to him. As far as I can see, Rope Guy is living the life he wants to live… though it is not the life I would want to live. To me, that’s the fundamental aspect of the Red Pill: understanding how the world works, so that you can live the life you want. Most guys are not living the lives they want. If a guy deeply wants to be a provider-type dude with a fat, nagging wife, or he wants to be celibate… I think that’s fine. Not for me, but whatever. The Red Pill exists because most guys have no idea what’s going on and aren’t leading the lives they should. It gives men options, once they can see clearly.

That’s an aside. Point is, this night, this girl is there, and she’s gotten into the scene through Rope Guy. Rope Guy and I get along well, and he’s tied up a bunch of chicks I’ve brought to parties. I encourage them to get tied up by him. It’s a kind of division of labor. He ties them up, I f**k them later. It seems we both get what we want. I get what I want, I know that. This night, Wednesday after Christmas, Stephanie and I have flirted a little bit on and off. She has a more-interesting-than-usual job and life story. More interesting, though less lucrative, than me. I don’t ask the typical questions of her, and I think she likes that.

While we’re talking, the guy who I describe in this story and this one is also there. He turns out to be a bitch, so I’m going to call him The Bitch. The Bitch and I had some rapport before the Ms. Slav thing, but he now hates me. At the party, early on, I nod at him and say hi, and he says nothing back and looks away.

A little bit more background on him: I can’t tell if he’s dumb or not, but he comes across as stupid. He sounds stupid: I mean that his voice literally sounds like a stoned, stupid surfer dude. That probably doesn’t matter a lot of the time for him and chicks, but with this one it turns out it does matter… or she just doesn’t like his vibe.

He comes over to start hitting on Stephanie and more or less ignores me. I don’t think she’s as into him as she is into me, though, as he is pretty clumsy and playing the typical boring 20 questions game, work, family, yada yada yada. So I roll off and say that I’m going to get a drink and beckon Stephanie, so that she’s very close to me, and I whisper in her ear, “When you get bored, come find me.” She giggles. She gets it. Prolonged eye contact as I leave. There is a strong feeling between us, and The Bitch is outside it.

I know “experts” on the Internet think that a guy’s looks are all-important and that all chicks are eager to f**k only the physically hottest guy they can find. That has not always been my experience, however. Just as most chicks have a “looks” threshold, many also have an “intelligence” threshold. Not intelligence as in book-smarts IQ, but they want a guy they can talk to, who has accomplished something in his life, who stimulates their minds, etc. That stimulation can be through humor or through deep thought or any number of other things. When students fall for their male teachers and professors, this is often happening: the chick is attracted to intelligence, as well as social position. On average, of course, basic chicks will chase the hottest guys, but some chicks go for someone else.

So Stephanie has some intelligence threshold, and I believe The Bitch doesn’t pass it. I have written that my daygame is not that good, largely I think because I have not needed to make it that good. The Bitch may be kind of stupid because he hasn’t needed to get smart to achieve his goals. But he will sometimes lose out, because he is stupid or psychologically weak.

When another guy tries to swoop in with a girl like Stephanie, I usually prefer rolling off or laughing, rather than trying to lock horns with him. This has likely lost me some chicks but gained me more than I’ve lost, I believe. Sometimes, in other circumstances, I will say to the guy something like, “Nice to meet you,” and then hold my hand out to the girl and tell her something like, “Follow me” or “Let’s go.” If she won’t go… then she is not my girl for the night and I have already lost her. Many guys delude themselves into thinking a chick is “theirs” when she is not. I often want to find out quickly if the chick is mine, or if she is just passing through. If she is not mine, and not likely to become mine, I want to cut off the attention early.

I see a lot of online advice about how to handle these kinds of situations. Some of the advice is good, but sometimes the girl doesn’t like you that much, or she likes the other guy better, or she just likes attention. There is no 100% shot for this kind of situation. In general, I don’t want to feed attention to the girl unless she is doing what I want to reward. When another guy is overtly hitting on her… I don’t want to feed her more attention.

I have not seen THAT many situations where I’m competing hard for a chick with another dude. I just don’t seem to get in as many of them as some players say they do. So with Stephanie, I’m in a somewhat unusual position for me.

But a couple minutes later she finds me. I said something to her like, “That looked tedious. Sorry you had to go through with it.” She falls right into frame. Soon, Rope Guy is setting up, and I encourage her to get tied up. I hang back and watch. Some other girls come over to watch too. Rope Guy’s skills advertise themselves. There are a few other cute chicks there, but they have boyfriends/dates/partners, and I don’t want to interrupt their couple dynamics. As a single guy at a sex party, it is smart to hang back and let them come to me, if they are going to, and no guys there “owe” me a bang, if you will. Even if they did… I would likely not have collected, or sought to collect.

Rope Guy is in the tying and admiring and untying process with Stephanie for like 45 minutes. He has another chick lined up immediately after her. I can see The Bitch eyeing her, but she is a bit dazed and I say hi, she says, “That was amazing,” and I ask if I can kiss her. She says yes, and it’s very straightforward from there. I pick her up and deposit her on one of the mattresses and she comes the first time after like 90 seconds of oral sex. By the time I’m ready for her I’m very much into it. I honestly don’t last as long as I would like, as this girl is insanely turned on, and her being turned on turns me on. It’s surprisingly good. When we are done, we wait half an hour and go again. We exchange numbers at the end of the evening.

Funny thing is that The Bitch does up f**king a fat chick, a chick who is like -3 points compared to him, maybe worse. The disparity between them is astounding to me. I would not f**k this girl under ANY normal circumstances. I guess he is desperate? It seems out of character, as I have in fact seen him with hot chicks. My other guess is that he has no game whatsoever, and as a result is dependent on online or being in this ecosystem. He takes from the ecosystem, but I don’t think he does enough to replenish it. Because of that taking and his inability to replenish, I think he has a desperate quality, a desperate edge, that probably further degrades his game.

I don’t want to knock him too much, as he has f**ked very hot chicks. But he also is not getting past his own psychology. He has a youthful vibe but is now I think in his mid-30s. The youthful glow is still there but going… and what will it be replaced with? For guys, the older you are, the more substantive you have to be, and I don’t think he’s making himself substantive. He might lack the intellect to become substantive. Maybe he has done too many drugs. I do think he is too reliant on chicks already in the scene.

Another word on Rope Guy. The guys who are rope experts, use it to get laid, and I admire it. The rope is foreplay for the chick. In the past I’ve made the mistake of hurrying too fast for the sex, and the rope forces the guy to slow down. For Rope Guy, the rope is the thing, so he has no incentive to hurry. Arguably, the opposite. But while chicks love rope, most of them don’t want to spend two hours or more being tied up. With most experiences, there is an “entry” point, a building sensation, a “high” peak, and then an eventual letdown. Sex is that way. If sex goes on too long for the chick or the dude, it doesn’t have quite the effect it should, as it is best to end at or near the high point. Same thing with rope.

Some rope guys also have very good Instagrams. I’m on the record disliking social media, but I get why guys who do it well, do it. Rope Guy has a good one that helps him with chicks who DM him. I have done some photography for him.

There was another party last night, on New Year’s Eve, and many of the same people were there, but Stephanie had work obligations. A shame. I am supposed to see her later today. In some ways, she just “fell” into my lap. In other ways, I was able to apply all that I have learned about the scene and the game into this one moment. On NYE, the party was less good from a girl perspective, but I liked being there.

I have expressed a lot of ambivalence about what I’ve been doing and how I want my life to be shaped. This story, however, like the Home Friend story, illustrates why I am reluctant to make a big change in life, in life direction. I f**ked a pretty girl in her 20s, had an incredible sexual experience with her, and had to do very little immediate work to get there. I have put in far more effort for far less reward many, many times.

I’m in this network, I’m even a central node in this network, and it is a very good place to be. I’ve done a ton of work to get here. Wednesday night is an example of that work bearing fruit. I have had many less-good nights in this world, by the way, so I don’t want to pretend that I’m some f**k stud laying out new hotties four nights a week. I’m not. But when the scene is good, it is very good. It’s also more fun than most vanilla parties. At vanilla parties, people stand around getting drunk and making stupid remarks. I don’t like getting drunk, and I’d rather skip some of the preliminaries and admit that everyone at the party is curious about what everyone else looks like, naked. Let’s get there and see what’s up. It’s more honest. People aren’t cloaking their intentions. I like that.

Surprised by indifference. Guys can flake too.

Flaked out on Ms. Slav again this weekend. I think she’s surprised by indifference and by the speed with which replacement happens, or has happened to her; we talked on the phone and danced around the subject. She’s used to being chased, so when a guy doesn’t chase her, she’s uncertain. I’m pretty sure she expected the “primary partner” conversation to go differently than it did, as she’s used to tooling guys. But I have written quite a bit about reciprocity and I really mean what I wrote: she became less regular and flakier, and I’ve done the same, in about the same proportion, with her… I’m highly sensitized to female bad behavior. Even small amounts of it trigger defense mechanisms in me, defense mechanisms I’ve learned the hard way. Like the way I’ve learned that “Attention is the only tool modern men have,” which is probably the most important thing I’ve written, and the one it seems many guys have the hardest time implementing. Another way of using attention properly is to follow tit-for-tat after the first couple lays. This strategy is not as good for the very beginning parts of a relationship, when the guy typically has to do more work.

Previously, regarding Ms. Slav, I wrote that I’m unaccustomed to being in the inferior part of the relationship, and I think she is the same. She’s used to being chased. She’s used to having guys adapt their schedules to her, as I used to, and don’t anymore. She has many stories of boys and even men chasing her, desiring her, giving her (sometimes expensive) gifts, prostrating themselves before her, begging attention from her, etc. Guys who get a taste of her puss and fall in love with her. She’s used to saying, “See yah!” and hitting the road. Now she’s encountering all of that in me. Such is the power of even modest game, or, more likely, experience. I have f**ked hot chicks before, I have seen almost every manner of female bad behavior, and I know how to reply to it. I know Ms. Slav can be replaced. She knows that I know, and I know she knows I know, although I don’t thinks she would use the words I’m using.

Indifference is more shocking to her, I think, than love or hate. Being relinquished or released does not happen to her often. But I am not fond of being the #2 or #3 choice. I, however, am used to chicks experiencing sudden temperature swings, and me being dropped by them. Chicks and secret society guys can go colder faster than normal people.

Readers can probably infer that the consensual non-monogamy and sex party world have some problems of the traditionally monogamous world, just transformed but not wholly eliminated. Many adventure stories see the hero transmitted into a dark “mirror world” that is similar to but different from the normal, daylight world. Non-monogamy works similarly.

I still like Ms. Slav more than not, but she has been focused on school and is much more heavily into the scene than even I am. In my view she says, “Yes” too much. To almost all invitations. To guys on Facebook.

I wrote a variant of this previously, but some of you are probably thinking that if I’d just managed Ms. Slav better, she would still be firmly in my orbit. That is possible, but doubtful. She has greater interest in this world than even me.

She is also willing (semi-willing?) to let pictures of her be used for social media purposes. I’m not sure she’s tracking what’s happening closely, or as closely as she should be. But the number of super hot chicks in the world is small, and the number in the scene is small. The number who are willing to be photographed is smaller still. This may come back to bite Ms. Slav… or it may not. She may fully “come out” in a way that most participants are reluctant to. If it weren’t for peculiar aspects of my own life setup, I might be willing to come out. Men are more willing, on average than women. Especially single men.

Ms. Slav is popular as a photograph target because almost everyone understands basic principles of consumer advertising. How do you sell to a man? Tell him this product will bring him hot chicks. To a woman? This product will make her one. Ms. Slav could not be a professional model, but she is willing to be undressed and trussed up in front of the camera.

Ms. Slav will be at home for a few weeks, and it would not surprise me if she’s had enough of me by the time she gets back. It’s rare for casual relationships to survive the “primary partner” or “be my boyfriend” talk if the outcome is not positive. But Ms. Slav has been exceptional in many ways, which is why I’ve been writing so much about her. Long-time readers will remember “Bike Girl,” who is (was) a more normal relationship than Ms. Slav. Bike Girl was into me and very much wanted to develop our relationship. Most chicks want one or at most two primary relationships. Very few go all the way into Ms. Slav territory, f**king seemingly everyone. Some. I’ve f**ked some of those girls. The girl I cut loose a while ago is like that. We got coffee the other day; I still like her. She lacks diet discipline and that is showing, even at her age. I looked through some of the sex tapes we made, and I can see the difference happening from the first to the last. Remarkable. It’s also weird to see that I wrote that post about her in July… it seems like last month.

I emphasize how rare Ms. Slav is in the preceding paragraph because I think some guys will think her behavior is common, when in fact it’s not. Because it’s so uncommon, it makes a good story. I’ve written far more about Ms. Slav than I did about Bike Girl because Bike Girl was pretty normal and Ms. Slav is not.

People doing consensual non-monogamy successfully often have quite orderly, regular lives apart from the sex clubs. Most lives can only tolerate so much disorder before they collapse or spiral out of control. To be totally debauched in one area, one must be very stable and responsible in others. Most people in the community are employed and have a reasonable financial base, too; it’s hard to explore alternate relationship styles if you can’t pay rent first.

If I have the opportunity, I might go a couple weeks or month without chicks, as a kind of psychological or physical challenge. Some of the regulars may drop off. But that depends on Peaches’s scheduled.

Does anyone else reading this, and in the game, like Stoic philosophy? I’m not religious, but there is a slightly religious impulse behind my interest.

Female “friends:” the comprehensive statement.

Experienced guys can quit this post right now, as it’s about an obvious topic, so you don’t need to read it. But it comes up with such frequency online that I want one, comprehensive discussion of it.

A guy on Reddit says, “Anyone else find themselves increasingly distant from female ‘friends’?”

Those scare quotes around “friends” are good. The guy goes on, “Have you guys also found it more and more difficult to have girls around who are only friends? I struggle to see how other guys have girls around only as friends (unless they’re ugly).” He’s right. If a guy is around a girl he finds attractive, he should make a move on her within the first week of meeting. Maybe slightly longer in some situations, like if they go to school together and will be forced into a lot of proximity.

One of the commenters said something smart,

Almost none of those women you call “friends” are friends, in the sense that they are loyal, caring, trusted people in your life. They are people who know you, and may occasionally hang out with you.

But you would be less than nothing to them the instant you start to be a social drag on them. Most people are that way, so it is not necessarily a woman thing. It is just that, in my experience, very few men are any good at being a friend, and almost no women are.

As a young and stupid guy, I liked being “friends” with hot chicks because it meant I hadn’t yet been told, definitively, “no.” So I would grind away much of that initial attraction, if any existed at all, by hanging around the hot chick and not making a move. I achieved a paradoxical situation: I found it very easy to lay out girls I was a little bit attracted to, but very hard to get with chicks I was highly attracted to. With chicks I was a little attractive to, I would do almost perfect push-pull, hot-cold game, without knowing what I was doing. I genuinely didn’t care, so I’d run great game and generate loads of attraction. With girls I was attracted to, I’d simultaneously supplicate and avoid making a move.

With girls I was a little bit attracted to, I was an unconscious game expert, dribbling out just the right amount of attention to hook her. I wasn’t very concerned about how good I was in bed, which made me better in bed because I wasn’t worried and became focused on the moment.

With hot girls, girls I thought were truly “top tier” (a stupid thought), I would do the opposite. Timid, scared to make the move, worried about offending her, worried about being told “no.” It took me too long to realize that “no” is great. When I hear a firm “no,” I can give up on that girl and go find a girl to say “yes.” A firm “no” from a chick who means it is actually advantageous to guys.

To guys who are into smashing hot chicks, that is. To guys who are afraid of being rejected, “no” hurts. Most guys who are attracted to their female “friends” aren’t friends. They are too scared to make a move. They are better off making the move, getting to “no,” and then moving on.

I also hadn’t realized that, if I’m not f**king her, chances are that someone else is. Most chicks are being f**ked by someone. Hot chicks, medium chicks, even a lot of ugly chicks. If that hot chick is going to f**k someone, it might as well be me. I wish I had internalized that concept much younger.

When a guy propositions a girl for sex or starts kissing her and she says no, he doesn’t need to make a big deal about it. In fact, the less big a deal he makes, the better. She has been honest with him, and that is good. He doesn’t have to have a “friend breakup” talk. He just needs to direct his attention in more useful directions. Stop texting her, stop the unsolicited contacts. If you see her around, say hi and be cordial. Just don’t increase intimacy. Don’t do one-on-one hangouts. When you find a girl you can bang, you won’t remember why you had it for some girl you couldn’t.

Friendship also thrives on mutual interests. For a lot of guys, their female “friends” are girls they’d really like to fuck. Remove the horny from the situation, or realize that you’re not going to fuck her, and what’s the basis left for the friendship?

Right.

Every guy has 16 waking hours in the day. Time spent with female “friends” is usually not time spent getting laid or being in the gym or hitting on chicks or otherwise improving his life. Most guys who are “friends” with hot girls, are merely providing value to the girl while getting nothing in return. If the guy demands equal value in return, the girl hops to the next male “friend.” This kind of behavior becomes bad for women over time, as older women will eventually lose the beta males who provide this guy of free attention, but for women in their teens and well into their late 20s, using one kind of guy for attention and validation and another kind of guy for sex is common. Telling a 20-year-old-girl that she won’t be able to get away with this when she’s 34 is not going to work or mean anything to her.

In my last two years of school, I got in with a couple of party girls who’d get tons of party invites, and, although I wanted to f**k them, they were genuinely good sources of other leads. I’ve seen guys say, “But girls look at me differently when I’m out with a hot girl!” But do you bang those girls? Putting your dick inside a girl is the real test of anything related to the game, like profit and revenue are the true tests in business. In business, many people will say, “Oh that sounds like a cool product / service.” Do they pay for it? Then they mean it. Do they think someone else might pay for it? Then they do not. Talk is cheap.

Being “friends” with a hot girl seems to get most guys very few lays, from what I can tell. Yes, it might be easier to get warm intros, but most of the time a hot girl trying to pass off her male “friends” to other chicks is not going to succeed. Other girls are like, “If he’s so great, why aren’t you dating him?”

Exactly.

With those two girls towards the end of school, I wanted to bang them, but I didn’t, and I didn’t care that much. This was a rare circumstance where being the hot girl’s friend led to me getting laid. But by then, I’d also gotten used to meeting chicks and escalating. Meeting chicks at college parties is the easiest thing in the world. Eventually I started dating one, and that was around the time I really got over my fear of “no.”

Anyone who is old enough will remember ladder theory from the earlier days of the Internet. It’s kind of stupid but gets the basic idea that women by and large put men into two categories, one for potential sex and one for everything else, including “friendship.” Men mostly want women for sex. I have very some female friends, but they’re women I’ve either had sex with before or don’t want to have sex with. If a guy genuinely doesn’t want to have sex with a woman… and she brings genuine skills or insight to the table… then being friends is fine. Being friends because you don’t have the balls to try and f**k her is bullshit.

As I’ve gotten older, I’ve observed some of the “friend zone” in reverse, in which women will maintain friendships with men in hopes of getting the man to invest in her fat self and especially her fatherless children. This isn’t a great look for the woman, and it reflects the way male sexual value frequently peaks later than female sexual value. It seems that younger guys have problems with female friends, and older guys learn 1. what true friendship is, 2. not to hide our dicks, and 3. if she isn’t f**king me, she probably isn’t important to me.

With all that context, however, it’s possible for high-value guys to have female friends, if they’re already getting all the sex they want from other sources. I have (had? can’t tell right now) a lover nicknamed Ms. Slav, and I would not be surprised if we shift towards a friend/mentor role. I like her in a lot of ways, but I have other lovers who are in some ways more compatible than she is. The age gap, combined with her interests and proclivities, mean that we might not be suitable as lovers. Like the girls I knew at the end of college, she is an interesting person AND I am getting about as much sex as I want, so we wouldn’t be “friends” with me quietly hoping she comes around to sex with me. We’ve already been lovers, and I’m not accepting a fake “friendship” as a second- or third-best option.

In my own life, the highest-value guys have very rarely had problems with “the friend zone.” If a chick won’t f**k them, they move on. Lower-value guys should do the same thing. Attention is the only tool modern guys have, and most guys waste it. No guy needs to be rude to a woman who rejects him, so it’s not like he can never say hi when she passes on the street, but he should withdraw attention. She’s not his friend. We all have internal mechanisms that make us want to lie to ourselves about all sorts of things. Being true to yourself and accepting the Red Pill is about not lying to yourself. When you don’t lie, you can assess your own weaknesses, assess how to fix them, and assess what you really want (as opposed to what you think you’re supposed to want). You may not entirely know what you want, or you may have multiple, conflicting desires. I have that problem right now. But I also acknowledge it and am aware of it. Not all problems can be solved. The female “friend” problem? That one’s easy to solve.

Ms. Slav party night

I went to a party with Ms. Slav on Saturday night, and Ms. Slav was on good behavior. Or she was genuinely interested in hooking up with this chick, which she did for a long time, with me participating for a lot of it. Regardless of motives, things went well. Ms. Slav was more solicitous than she has been. She was a little tired herself, and I was a lot tired… the “tired” came from Home Friend the night before, but I didn’t share that with Ms. Slav. Ms. Slav was also a bit more subdued, and she let herself be led more easily.

Later on, we left and got some food, and then went back to my place. I was ready to crash, but Ms. Slav wanted to chat. She asked me to be her primary partner. And I froze… and then punted… I have seen less of her in the last month than I would like. I asked what makes her ask now, and I told her that I’d been thinking about this exact issue. She said that I’m willing to let her be free and that I’m more reliable than anyone else she’s met. Fuuuuccccckkkkkkk… “reliable” is synonymous with “boring” in girl-speak. Particularly young-girl-speak. Ms. Slav could tell I wasn’t happy with that description, although I tried to hide my initial response, and I didn’t quite want to tell her that “reliable” means “boring,” but I was dancing around that idea some.

We had a long talk about reciprocity and how, from my perspective, she’d been out f**king everyone under the sun… and she said that I would never have met Peaches if not for her (true), and that I should have “checked” with her first. I explained that I hear what she’s saying, but that, again from my perspective, she seems to be splitting hairs.

This is the girl who doesn’t experience jealousy and who opposes drama. Like I said in an earlier post, push hard enough and we’re all hypocrites in some way. Ms. Slav isn’t ready to acknowledge her hypocrisy. I don’t think she can even see it. I think she’s too deep in her own worldview to perceive it. She stuck to her story.

I debated telling her about Home Friend on Friday. I know she won’t like me f**king Home Friend. I know she won’t like finding out that I f**ked Home Friend later. But Ms. Slav is going back to her home country for a couple weeks shortly, and I don’t know what will happen when she returns. I don’t know what I want to happen. The last couple months have been so debauched, like I wonder if this is a kind of last hurrah for this part of my life. But I’ve built up all these skills and connections… there is a part of me that thinks it would almost be a waste to stop now.

I’ve written about this previously, but for a long time my mind was congruent: I love f**king, I like group sex, let’s just do as much as I can, as often as I can, while still maintaining my other duties and responsibilities. Now I’m more ambivalent, more divided, and less sure of what the focus of my life should be. I don’t think it’s an accident that I began writing online around the time I began feeling ambivalent. When my mind was united, I felt less need to share or explain. And my job soaked up pretty much every spare moment and thought. Now my role has changed and I have more time, but maybe more time isn’t so good for me after all. I have been blessed with many extraordinary experiences and opportunities. I will never be one of those people who looks back at their sex life and thinks, “I wish I had had the courage to try this, this, and this.” I have tried it all. For the good, sometimes for the less good. I have learned much. Some of that I am passing on. I wonder who will do what I do, in the next generation. The non-monogamy culture is out there. Players who combine it with game can achieve extraordinary things, as most guys in the scene lack game, and most guys who have decent game do not know about the scene, it seems.

With Ms. Slav, I left the “primary partner” discussion tabled. I think she may leave, and lose interest (time away is deadening for any woman, but especially a fizzy young girl), and by the time she comes back the problem will have solved itself. Ms. Slav thinks we fit well together because I have been superficially less judgmental of her behavior than others have. In reality, I know that chastising girls is largely useless. I know that Ms. Slav is the sort of girl who is going to have to discover principles of reciprocity the hard way. I’m enjoying the ride… I’m not in it for the long term.

Sunday morning she spent a long time going down on me. We went out for coffee. She went home, I went back to my place for a nap. In the afternoon I began writing this pair of posts. I need to get myself back to a more normal, rhythmic schedule. This weekend has been crazy.