Game teaches men to control and channel our emotions, but one of the hardest parts about the game, in my experience and, it seems, in many others’, is doing nothing. Saying nothing. Not responding, when every emotional fiber of one’s being cries out to respond. Those are the times when a chick texts something, and I yearn to text back what I think, or to convince her to act, but in my rational mind, I know that saying zero is the right move, and that my emotional yearnings must be curtailed.
“Impatience” is often the handmaiden of failed game. A few days ago, I met a chick I’ve loosely known for about nine months. I have a lot of logistical complexity, and she has some too, and I’ve run hot and cold by accident, because I know I shouldn’t try to bang her, but she’s also a hot 8, and looks and smells like sex, so here I am, wanting to bang her.
THE GAME comes out in 2005, MYSTERY METHOD a year later. A bunch of pickup blogs show up then too, almost all abandoned since, and sometimes descending into madness and/or conspiracy theories along the way. Few guys have any desire to write about pickup and chicks for more than a few years, and the ones who do are often, or usually, unbalanced, or nuts in some other way(s). It’s important to have coolness and status before trying to evangelize or teach, yet the most prominent and least anonymous guys appear to have neither. Most are the kind of guys I’d want to avoid, not the kind who I’d want to get a drink and chat with.
A few years ago (2015) the book MATE: BECOME THE MAN WOMEN WANT, by Geoffrey Miller and Tucker Max, also came out, but it didn’t seem to make a splash. In a major occasion on par with the moon landing, Red Quest as a blog is founded in 2017, its initiation commemorated by a massive, 10-ten granite ziggurat next to the Washington Monument in DC. Red Quest’s readership peak is 2019, as of this writing, although you never know, maybe some feminist tweeters will come along to denounce me, and thus drive up traffic. Most people who find their way here from twitter or reddit, belong to twitter or reddit, prefer corporate media, and aren’t much interested in other venues. They’ve been captured by the big-tech borg. Some people complain about centralization of power among big tech companies, but the vast majority of people’s actions show preference for big centralized platforms, not for decentralized, censorship-resistant efforts (describing what seems to be true is not the same as approving of a thing that seems to be true).
What’s going on? Knowledge about how to do better with chicks is available, but few guys seems to avail themselves of it. Chicks themselves are not out there talking about the excessive number of socially smooth, interesting, and cool guys who are seducing them. If anything, chicks are complaining about how cold it is to meet guys through online dating, and how they wish guys would approach them in real life. Chicks are lonely, bored, and understimulated, by their own admission. Memes about funny cats go viral, ideas about how to get laid, don’t. I post that most guys just don’t care that much about getting laid, and even the ones who somewhat care, don’t care or care much about figuring out how to do so effectively. The information itself has been around for at least a decade and a half, probably longer, and it’s still very niche.
Some guys still seem to think that doing better with chicks is simply impossible: and yet the guys who practice the game demonstrate otherwise. Or maybe most guys really aren’t picky, and are okay dating a few points below themselves. They perceive the mountain to be too high, and go back to the Shire of video games. I know a coach who says his clients think a same-day lay (SDL) is impossible, because it’s so far out from their idea of what’s possible.
Overall, it’s not like men are better at getting laid via some other avenue. Men seem to be getting laid less than they did a few years back, which is also consistent with the “most guys don’t care much” thesis. You’ve probably seen the graphs showing that the number of guys in their teens / 20s who have gone without sex in the last year has something like doubled, or maybe a bit more, from like 8% to like 22%, in the last ten to twelve years:
Number of video gamers and herbivores seems to be going up, which is I guess kind of nice from a “competition” level, but existentially depressing from a societal and cultural level. Maybe one day humanity goes extinct cause the video games are too good. Maybe the effort and subtlety needed to master the art of seduction is too great. Most guys have returned to an oral-first culture, and thus the extensive written corpus about how to get laid lies fallow, for want of readers. In a similar human puzzle, Why aren’t there more computer science majors? It’s probably the most lucrative undergrad degree, and highly impactful on the average person’s life (the average person spends an unbelievable number of hours per day on the phone, which is another way of saying, “Doing things CS majors produce”). Lots of people go to college, get worthless degrees, and spend the next decade plus paying back “student” loans that can’t be discharged via normal means like bankruptcy. Weird! I hypothesize most people aren’t smart enough to do computer science degrees but maybe there are other reasons. Most guys are smart enough to implement the rudimentary parts of game, however, they just don’t. Maybe guys are just lazy?
Some of the guys who download and read the book probably don’t do anything with its ideas right away, but a planted seed may sprout years down the line. Could be that “time” is a key element for ideas to spread. But ideas from THE GAME and such have had a long time to spread, and seem not to have. Video game ideas, by the contrast, appeal to many millions.
There seemed to be a lot of energy in the pickup and seduction worlds in the ’00s and early ’10s. Where’d it go? Guys in their 20s don’t seem to be writing about seduction and dating experiences (if I’m missing guys who are, let me know). Maybe, today, being in good shape, a male high 7, and having okay pictures of a guy looking buff and hiking or whatever, is enough to snare high 6s and some 7s off dating apps, so the drama of cold approach and bar seduction isn’t needed. The process is a little smoother, its terrifying peaks and valleys and storms smoothed into a neater, more manicured path. Meanwhile the guys playing video games and getting fat are mostly out of the game altogether, or get women consistent with their lives. A guy who gets frustrated enough with his underperforming sex life will find his way to the knowledge he needs, while a guy who is fundamentally content with underperformance, won’t.
It may also be that most guys interested in and writing about seduction are fundamentally unappealing or crazy, a point elaborated in, “The most stridently asserted opinions will disappear down the memory hole.” I look at most of the guys writing about player blogs and they do not seem cool to me, and many of them say and tweet crazy things that will repel normal people, or reasonable people. So it’s hard to separate the crazy opinions on various topics from the reasonable, but slightly unconventional, views on how sex and dating actually work.
Maybe this sort of thing will always be of interest to only a small group, for some other reason I’m not aware of. Maybe I’ve not plumbed the psychology of man sufficiently to discern it. I think I’d imagined that Red Quest as a blog would be more enticing: more efficient, and often effective, ways of getting copiously laid. Even if most guys aren’t interested in undertaking these practices, I imagined they’d be interested in or curious about them. They’re powerful tools, however unusual.
I don’t have much of a conclusion. Whatever makes ideas popular, does not appear to apply to guys figuring out how to get laid.
The last year and a half have been revealing. I’ve speculated in private that I think this universe is self-limiting, because the accurate and useful ideas about, for example, picking up chicks, are often swirled together with a bunch of other off-putting, inaccurate, and widely disliked ideas: a bunch of anti-social people discussing social skills. If you know any, direct them here, so they can denounce. Ten years ago, it seemed like pickup artists and such were regularly denounced online and in the media, and now, no one does. It seems the culture wars have moved on. By the way, we lost, at least in terms of numbers and attention.
Nash has a story about dating a peculiar girl, one who is “cold, confident, powerful little ‘push’ in how she receives you” and who seems to have a “bitchy hot girl routine.” Her responses to him are curt and highly factual, to the point Nash feels like “something is missing.” She’s a mystery (read the whole thing to understand more), and one possibility I posit in the comments: aspergers. She has little apparent interest in other people or a normal social life.
Psych diagnoses are overused today, granted, and lots of guys want to label unhappy chicks as “borderline personality disorder,” while 3/4 of chicks today claim to have “social anxiety disorder,” when the only actual disorder they might have is “7 hours a day staring at my smartphone disorder,” but in this chick, aspergers might fit, and that could also explain the lack of sexual debut, cause she’s too weird and antisocial to get there. I’ve obviously not met the chick Nash is describing, and sometimes it’s hard to say who’s just weird, and who is maybe diagnosably weird, but her behavior as described at least seems consistent with aspergers or similar.
I’ve run into some chicks who are a bit on the spectrum: if a girl likes to f**k for the usual reasons (sensation, orgasm, pleasure) but is also much more logical/systematic than a normal girl, she’s more likely than average to wind up doing non-monogamy, and thus I’m more likely to run into her.
A guy on Reddit says to me, “I just want to say thank you. You helped me,” but I was a little confused… how’d I help him? I asked, he says “A lot of the prominent voices in this community seem to be motivated by hate, but I don’t get that at all from your blog. It showed me that there is an intelligent way to approach the goals I have.”
I also read The Evolution of Desire because you had mentioned it, and that book is pretty illuminating. Its easier not to get stuck in anger when I at least understand what is going on.
Evolutionary biology is key to understanding human sexual dynamic fundamentals… evolutionary biology is the difference between trying to calculate the area under a curve with calculus versus without. Calculus is the difference between the modern world and everyone living in sod huts and being covered wit shit, and there is no substitute for fundamental understanding (a common theme around here).
Read evolutionary biology and spend a lot of time with chicks, and a normal guy will develop/have some compassion and empathy for them. Chicks have their own problems, many imposed by their evolutionary path. The male path is simple, “hot chick -> want to fuck -> try to fuck.” More & hotter are better. Men who didn’t pass up sex opportunities with fertile chicks left more children than those who did.
A player scheduled a date with a chick, then felt ill so he cancelled, then felt better and attempted to un-cancel (or reschedule, I guess) the date. The chick said she’s not free anymore and that she thinks he had other plans, and the other plans got cancelled. She “doesn’t believe in miracles.” Sounds like a girl who’s been around men and dating for a while.
So what would you do? Leave answers in the comments before you read on.
The average guy who regularly uses drugs like MDMA (molly), coke, etc., may seem from the outside like an idiot and may even be one, but the guys who use MDMA to lead better lives don’t look or act like the average drug idiot. You probably won’t know who they are, unless they tell you, or unless you see them at a venue on a night that’s conducive to the rolling experience. Without having had that experience, it’s impossible to describe how beautiful and life-affirming it can be: and, for those reasons, it can also be a powerful tool in terms of bonding with chicks, and elevating their lives. Loads of girls love different experiences (their typical life is dreary, except when men who up to create some excitement) and it’s possible to intelligently experiment with altered states of mind and body. That almost no guys writing about the game mention this (kind of obvious) point tells us about guys writing about the game… the main exception I can think of is Delicious Tacos, who’s not writing about the game, exactly, but sometimes tweets that the most effective pickup line in the world is, “Hey, want to do some coke?” I’m not saying that should be your line… but he has a point. Loads of guys disparage nightclubs, none of them ever say, “coke is a key part of doing that game successfully.” Personally I don’t want to do coke, but its effectiveness in certain environments remains.
MDMA is better, though, as mentioned above, impossible to describe without having taken it, but it will lower inhibitions, increase tactile sensations, create greater social cohesion, and have some other positive effects, like making people who take it more open and outgoing. A lot of ppl don’t like clubs/raves, then they take MDMA, then they’re suddenly great! If clubs/raves look stupid to you, that’s because you’ve never experienced them on drugs, which is the only way they make sense. Booming nightclubs are horrible environments, unless you’re drunk or on drugs. MDMA is a much better experience than alcohol.
Girls go out and have a couple of drinks on dates because the girls are nervous and they also want to get laid, without their nervous forebrain getting in the way of their p**sies.
There’s an embargo on saying “not all sex is good for women,” that you can think critically about how sex affects women, without being right wing or “sex negative.” It therefore becomes easy to be discredited as “not getting it” if you make any critiques of women’s sexual choices (and, perhaps, by implication, the choices of men). Because of the rules of liberal discourse, only women can weigh in on this debate in most media platforms; fortunately, you are not reading “most media platforms” right now. The women-only rule silences 50% of the population, and any woman who doesn’t agree with the pro-sex feminist take gets lumped in with the anti-sex religious nuts. A clever strategy, and yet it hurts us all when we can’t have honest conversations.
I think Default_Friend sees that discourse vacuum as harmful to women, and, simultaneously, that the narrative asserting “more and more sex for women is the only way to be empowered” is disingenuous. She’d like to see that conversation evolve: I feel like she’s pretty coherent in her worldview and consistent in her challenges to the current feminist narrative. She’d likely agree women are the worst slut shamers, and she’d understand why.
The Graphic Designer Who Hates Making the First Move is a universal story of a woman who can’t or won’t make the first move: she finds a guy she likes, “I think he’s cute and wish he’d just make the move and ask me out. I don’t get it.” Why doesn’t she make the first move? She doesn’t say. About another guy, she says, “I could ask him out myself, but I really want someone to take the lead and I want to be pursued.” Despite what you’ve heard from feminist teachers in schools, despite the bullshit you may have imbibed from the media, women are passive and won’t make the first move. As a man, it’s your job to make it, and it will almost certainly remain your job as long as men and women exist. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap, so, if you’re a man reading this, you’re going to need to be the actor, not the acted upon.
Sure, you may have heard women say “Ew, I can’t believe that guy hit on me.” Guess what? She’s making a female social power play, by saying that she’s so desirable and popular that she routinely rejects guys. That’s her game when she says something like that. Or, she considered the guy to be below her level (this always happens). The other day, I was walking along a strip of bars near me, and there was this woman, cute, wearing an outfit that was like 55% business / 45% T&A, skirt that was almost too short, tits almost hanging out too much, and I opened her with, I don’t know, something about business, something about the time of day, and she said something like, “Ew, no.” Or maybe just “No,” I don’t remember exactly, but it was an uncommonly cold rejection, particularly for a woman dolled up like she was.
And it doesn’t matter, the rejection, I mean.
Most women will be more polite than this one, but the rejection doesn’t matter. I’ve received hundreds like it over my life. That kind of rejection is part of the game, just like the Graphic Designer woman not being able to make the first move is part of the game. Chicks don’t make moves, they select from guys who make moves on them. Feminism hasn’t changed that. Chicks getting jobs hasn’t changed that. Claire Lehmann, an uncommonly self-aware and active chick, tweets out, “When is there going to be a story complaining about men not pursuing women in romantic situations? My lived experience is that men making women do all the work is really annoying.” The many stories of me getting laid sprinkled throughout red quest happened because I tried, and risked rejection. That men don’t understand this properly today is pathetic, but I blame it on low masculinity in society more generally, and a failure of older guys to teach younger guys how to be guys.
The Graphic Designer story has one other game-relevant moment, “sometimes I swipe and match just to feel something. I could easily make a move and ask one of them out, but something is holding me back.” A very large number of chicks are on swipe apps for attention. Prefer meeting chicks in real life. As more people become social ret**ds who can’t interact with other people in real life, the value of that skill increases.
Yes, sometimes chicks will be mean… but you don’t know who she is until you try. There’s an extreme deficit of “trying” in our society, and an extreme excess of people saying why something won’t work or whatever. The doers still reap the rewards. More often, chicks will appreciate the male attention, if it’s calibrated and if the guy can accept “no,” which will be the most common response, even among chicks who like the attention.
“If it’s calibrated” is key. If it’s not, you’ll eventually have problems with managers, police, and so on… justifiably, too. If you have those kinds of problems, it’s time to seek out a therapist or psychiatrist who specializes in developing social skills for men. They exist. Their services are needed, but the guys who most need them are often the guys who least realize how much their services are needed.
I promised myself I’d stop linking to these often-vapid NYMag sex diary stories, but they’re such perfect examples of the schizophrenic state of female discourse that I feel compelled to link them. Until someone finally put into words the basic idea that “chicks are random,” I couldn’t properly distill a fundamental, important part of the game. But I keep linking these NYMag sex diaries cause they point to another fundamental issue, that chicks still like being feminine and want guys to be masculine. They agree with a lot of red pill and pickup advice. A veneer of “I’m a feminist!” can’t overcome millions of years of choosy females and randy, pushy males.
Broke it off with the girl from Women having affairs never make you use a condom, after seeing her, I don’t know, five or six times… it was very nice, and yet after each time I found myself thinking the kind of things I’ve talked about on here before, like, “You can only have one or two main priorities in your life, and a couple secondary priorities, and after that you’re out of time and energy.” A lot of people fail to have a single main priority, besides something like video games or stuffing their face with sugar, and it shows. My main priority right now should not be chasing random skirt, as doing so is not consistent with my overall life goals. Problem being, when I think I can get a cute girl to pliantly spread her legs, my hindbrain says, “SCORE” and my forebrain is missing in action. When the girl and her perky tits and flat stomach are somewhere else, the forebrain can better assert control and whisper, “WTF are you doing with your life?”, and I have to admit the forebrain has control.
We met in a neutral venue, as usual, f**ked very thoroughly, also as usual, and after that we got underwear back on and I broached the topic.
XBTUSD shines a light in the darkness of the cave, revealing what guys are missing as the scramble around in the dark, cutting their hands and mistaking pain for enlightenment.
Most sex happens in a highly social context, and most “highly social contexts” involve some kind of community—yet no one writing online talks about communities, how they form, what sustains them, how they splinter, or what value they have.
Let’s take a simple example: when I was an undergrad, I joined a fraternity. My path to joining wasn’t certain, and I didn’t plan to join until the week the decision had to be made. Initially, I saw fraternities as a way for people without social skills to “buy” a group of friends: frats had dues, and if you paid, you had a guaranteed set of dudes to get drunk and try and fuck girls with. I was lucky enough to live in mixed-age housing my freshman year and became friends with one of the BMOC (“big man on campus”) seniors who lived in my dorm. He was in one of the “cool” frats (one of the ones hot girls spent time at), and over a number of conversations he convinced me that I had it all wrong, and that I should just join, as there was little downside. He correctly pointed out the downside of joining was that if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to spend any time there, or could de-pledge if I felt strongly enough. I’d lose the frat dues, which weren’t zero, but that wasn’t a great loss for me at the time. I decided to join and a lot of what I know about community comes from that experience. Most Americans live alienated, isolated lives, and frats are the exact opposite, which explains why so many guys have a great time in school and an unhappy time after. Continue reading “How to build communities and find tribe”