High school memories: no sex for you, but yes for the next guy

Don’t know why, but I was thinking back to high school and remembered a kind of weird dark pattern: a couple would start dating and the girl would refuse sex. Eventually they’d break up. Then she’d go f**k another guy right away, sometimes the next weekend. It actually happened to me, with a hot girl when I was a senior and she was a junior.

I still don’t have a great theory as to why girls do this, but I saw it often enough to make me consider whether it’s pretty common. Red Pill and player guys know that, when a woman denies sex and is not progressing adequately towards it, she should be dropped. Young high school guys usually take a while to get to the same place. I guess high school girls think they can get the attention without providing the sex, and when that turns out not to be a viable option, they go out and just give the sex, leaving young high school guys confused, as I was?

I went to a high school with a pretty wide range of people in it, from hardcore atheists whose parents had been in communes in their pasts to hardcore Christians, most of whom claimed to wait until marriage (many did not, it seemed). Typically the hardcore Christians married in their late teens or early 20s, then divorced a few years later. Some of them “made a mistake” in high school. Sometimes a lot of mistakes.

There were the typical groups of jocks, nerds, band people, etc. Who was f**king who was the primary topic of conversation among most people. I think I missed, barely, the hysterical college admissions race stuff that seems to occupy a lot of students today.

Hint: What you do in college and with your life matters infinitely more than the college you go to.

Players typically have a three-date rule, where if sex doesn’t happen by date three they consider bailing, unless it seems they’re making progress. There can be exceptions for when the girl is progressing adequately but is not quite there yet. For high school guys, though, the timeline will probably be longer for some girls, but I’d wager that if she’s not f**king by six to eight weeks of dating, it’s time to move on. I had many problems with my game in high school and early college, but this precise problem wasn’t usually one of them.

The average guy and the player have different problems

In thinking about responses to “Open or poly relationships from the superior position or inferior position” and “Game-aware guys being ‘poly’ or ‘open’,” I realized something obvious that almost never gets discussed: average or below-average guys have very different problems from players (and elite guys in general). In terms of women, the average guy has trouble lifting consistently; he eats sugar; he’s never cold-approached in his life, or only a couple times while drunk; he half-asses online dating; he has trouble attracting and retaining a single woman. Because he has trouble attracting and retaining one woman, being open or poly are either repellent to him (he’s risking the greatest source of value in his life) or something he might reluctantly engage, but only because he fears, possibly correctly, that if he doesn’t acquiesce, she’ll leave anyway in search of newer, shinier guys.

The player has different problems (and he does have problems). He has trouble cracking the very top tier of chicks; he spends too much time seducing each individual chick; he’s working on his game ecosystem and sustaining his investments; he’s aware of the way evolutionary biology make long-term male-female cohabitation difficult; he’s trying to maintain his psychological state in order to maximize his results. He is somewhat alienated from the larger society, in which other guys (with weak or no game) disdain players or underrate the value of sex.

The player might not like being open or poly, but even if he doesn’t, he’ll consider those labels as ways of maintaining chicks over the medium or long run, when the chicks start asking, “Where is this going?” He’s not very afraid of that “Where is this going?” question, because if one chick drops off, he’ll get another, or three or four. For the same reason he doesn’t worry much about “his” chick flirting with other guys or engaging in other forms of bad female behavior.

Players also know that when a woman is looking for a long-term provider guy, she’s probably going to reject the player. That’s okay. There are more girls out there. Younger prettier girls in developed countries don’t care much about material assets or “good” secure guys. They want fun and excitement. Players learn that and give it to them.

The Red Pill movement and many associated writers often lump these two groups together. A lot of guy, maybe the majority, never get out of the average phase. So we see guys making universal statements based on their own limited perspectives.

The problem is:

In the community, we do a terrible job talking about “types.” Types… as in “not everyone is the same.” Not the girls… and not the guys. We are all different types. And that means that we need game that applies to our specific place in the SMP.

And very few people distinguish among these groups.

I’m writing more for the player than the average guy. The material for the average guy who needs a boost is bountiful. In the sidebar to this blog, there is a cornucopia of information related to game, evolutionary biology, interacting with women, improving value, and delivering value. The material for the player is rarer. I think most guys who get into “game” just want a nice, pretty girlfriend, and when they find one, they stop. That is why the deep psychology that keeps men in the game interests me. Those are the guys who don’t stop after they advance a couple levels into the dungeon. They keep going, deeper and deeper into the maze, looking for the next achievements and for the deeper heart of human social existence.

There’s nothing wrong with getting into the game and finding a nice girl and stopping. If a guy gets what he wants, great for him. But his experiences aren’t likely to generate the deeper insights that make for more interesting writing.

Reddit suffers similarly. Most of the guys on it are average or below-average. They’re frustrated and often angry. It comes out in their writing and votes. Many of them also want to vent and complain more than improve. I get the impulse: modern feminism is about hating men and enforcing special female privileges. It’s also true that many women will behave as badly as the men around them allow them to behave, which is often pretty badly. The venting and complaining, I get it, but I don’t care that much about it. I’d rather work on making my own place in the world the best it can be. So I’m not likely to be as popular, and that’s okay.

Photography game?

I don’t have a strong view on “photography game,” though I’ve heard of guys attempting to elucidate their methods. Due to “Anyone doing any online dating needs to learn basic photography skills,” I’ve gotten questions about photography game, though I’m chary about cameras as game props, because, as I wrote in Ride a motorcycle—for fun, transport, and dating, “Riding a motorcycle will obviously not fix broken fundamentals of personality, weight, social presence, etc. You cannot buy your way out of who you are.” There is no single tool or thing you can buy to make you attractive to women, regardless of what the massive marketing and advertising edifices tell you. Most guys who think they’ll use the camera to attract and seduce women are deluding themselves and probably come off as creepers. I’ve seen camera-wielding creepers and heard stories from women about them. To rely on a prop instead of building a personality is preparing to fail.

But, a guy with good fundamentals can no doubt add the camera as a way to open and bond with chicks. I shot a couple hundred nude and erotic pics of Ms. Slav on a rooftop this week, and she loved it, as most hot chicks do, provided that they’re with a guy they find high status and cool. Most guys fail to develop coolness and status, and they can’t get hot girls in bed, let alone excited for pics.

One correspondent says,

We discussed whether validation was more important to women than sex itself. He said these women spent the best part of an eight hour shoot talking about how horny it made them feel so he jokingly told me I should set up some shoots of women I liked for the express purpose of fucking chicks! Seems so corny though.

It’s hard for me to judge this kind of thing, because I have almost no context. Many Internet advice seekers and givers lack context to the extent that the advice is worthless, and most people are too stupid to ask good questions. I’ll take a shot anyway: I’ve not done photo shoots or camera game like this; I’ve typically done photo shoots and that kind of thing after sex, like I did with Ms. Slav on the rooftop cityscape, when the girl’s sexual excitement shows through her entire body and soul.

I can’t tell if doing bikini photo shoots with a girl you haven’t yet slept with is a demonstration of higher value, lower value, or neither. My immediate instinct is to say, “Lower,” and that setting up a camera shoot with a chick is worse than just doing a regular date with her, and perhaps mentioning a photo shoot in a future-project way. But I’ve not got experience doing this kind of game.

It’s dangerous to judge a game style or technique without trying it out, because what may seem true in theory may not be true in practice. Game should be a practice and a practical set of applications, and I just don’t know here. I do know that chicks are narcissistic enough that getting their nudes done by a guy they trust is fun for them. A decent number later ask me to delete the pics and videos, showing the vagaries of the female mind.

My guess is that if you’re a cool enough guy to make the camera thing work, you don’t need the camera. And if you’re not a cool enough guy to make the camera thing work, the camera isn’t going to help.

Obviously the camera can be a useful tool. In many circumstances I like having a book more, and talking about what I’ve been reading. A lot of chicks are surprised by that because most guys don’t read. Even dumb chicks are somewhat impressed, if it’s done well by the right guy.

“If it’s done well by the right guy” is everything.

Ms. Slav went on a date with another woman last night, and it was extremely successful. More updates on her to follow. She’s among the few women capable of asking another woman out, setting up the date, and making a move. Most women who “want” another woman “just choose men” because men pursue them, and they say yes or no. Doing the pursuit doesn’t occur to passive women. My weekend has been very chill, since I’m recovering from travel and other things. I’m off my gym routine due to travel and a minor injury, so I need to get back into it.

Cause things change

I have an acquittance (not really a friend, exactly, but a friend of friends) who is one of those travel bores, forever flying somewhere and then telling everyone about her trip. But last time I saw her she was complaining about how it was harder to connect to people, how her “friends” flaked on her much more frequently, fewer people wanted to meet, etc. She attributes this to greater rudeness and the spread of social media.

I have a different explanation. She’s reaching into her late 30s now. She’s never been hot but was okay… I’ve definitely done worse. I’m not a fan of the concept of “the wall,” but she has hit it. Is hitting it. Suddenly, the ease with which she traveled is going down, because a lot of guys who used to grease the skids for her aren’t doing it anymore. Or they’re willing to do less for the same output. But she can’t figure out why. Or she chooses not to think about why.

She also has a long, complicated story about why things didn’t work out with “the love of her life,” which isn’t complicated. Now she’s older, has no real career, and maybe she’ll keep doing the travel thing. We’ll see where it gets her, in the end.