“Winners continue to win, and winning builds structural advantages”

That’s what a guy in finance was talking about on a podcast… I didn’t keep track of the original location, sorry, but the finance guy’s gist was something like, “In America, we have these narratives that we’re given from childhood. People are still religious, but we don’t really take our popular stories from holy texts anymore. We take them from Disney movies. The most common narrative when you’re a child in the United States is the little guy coming from behind. But when you get into investing, or any highly competitive arena, you realize that winners continue to win, and winning builds structural advantages. You’re disadvantaged if you’re small. This is not a romanticized story.”

The applicability to game is obvious… to come from behind takes a supernormal amount of work, and it takes someone who wants to buck trends, be different, and concentrate all of his resources on winning.

Most people can only win in one field. I have been talking to a guy in the game who also wants to improve his financial position (a good goal). But it is going to be very hard for him to do the game in depth and to dramatically change his financial life. The guys who he sees winning, financially speaking, have usually been laying the groundwork for victory for many years, and doing a lot of work to get to where they are. “Good, high-paying jobs” is a highly competitive arena where it is hard to come from behind, because other people have a variety of structural advantages built over years.

If you listen to rich, successful guys talk, a lot of them credit their wives for a lot of their success. Red Pill fanatics will reply to say those women are all cheating, they’re all waiting to divorce the successful man and take his money, they’re conniving, etc…. and while those things happen, I don’t think they’re the most common path for a successful, older rich guy. More commonly, a good woman will dramatically increase a man’s ability to succeed financially because she’ll believe in him, she’ll take care of the house, she’ll deal with the kid stuff. When he’s feeling down (everyone feels down sometimes), she’ll support him (there is a difference between sometimes feeling down and making your wife or girlfriend an emotional tampon). She increases a man’s ability to focus on other things, like his business and developing his skills. And of course for most guys, hunting for sex consumes lots of time, energy, and focus.

(Did you see the important word “good” in the paragraph… “a good woman…” a good woman enhances a man’s ability to achieve other goals, while a bad one is a burden.)

I am not suddenly pro-marriage, because marriage is a high-risk bet. If it blows up, the costs are sky-high. If it succeeds, however, the financial, time, and concentration benefits can also be very high. Some high-risk bets are good… this one seems net bad to me… and if a good woman enables a man to concentrate, talk to any divorced guy about what the divorce legal process does to his concentration.

Being good with chicks also has structural advantages. I know undersexed rich guys who can’t get laid, for all kinds of reasons… they are smart, but they have terrible bodies. They have oriented their minds towards technical fields, so that they can’t tease women, lead women, or connect with women. Women’s psychology baffles them and seems like a world of smoke, mirrors, vapor, and hidden trap doors (which it is… players just learn to navigate and get night-vision goggles). Guys who really learn the female mind can do very well at f**king chicks.

Obviously, a guy with a lot of money can use that to buy personal training, buy personality coaching, or buy chicks directly, but that last one has a bunch of downsides and the first two still take a lot of time and energy, and no guy who is 37 is going to get his 20s back. He may “make up” for them in some way, but time goes on direction. Rich guys may not have the structural advantages the captain of the wrestling team had… or whatever example you want to use. Almost all guys who nail a lot of hot chicks have some kind of structural advantage. Could be a job that introduces them to a lot of hot chicks. Could be good looks. Could be exceptional charisma. Could be sex clubs (or, as I think of them, an undervalued market opportunity that most guys don’t understand… investing in undervalued assets is how all those hedge fund guys got rich).

In popular narratives, the ugly duckling gets the girl in the end, who chooses him over the oafish jock. In reality, the oafish jock usually wins the pretty girl. “You’re disadvantaged if you’re small.” And in popular narratives, the ugly duckling often isn’t that ugly. We love to see the little guy come from behind. In reality, the solution is often literally to get big, by hitting the gym. Chicks respond to hot guys, more than they do to pudgy guys. Guys are more driven by pure body than chicks are, but chicks are too. A lot of guys absorb lessons from pop culture that are actively wrong.

Nailing hot chicks is a highly competitive arena with lots of subtleties, for most guys. There are naturals, yes. The guys who do it well (for a time, in most cases) often devote themselves fully to it. I have spent time (more time than I should have) explaining many of those subtleties in one area.

How many marry out of tiredness or desperation?

I wonder how many guys (and girls) get in relationships or marriages not because they really truly want to, but because their dating markets are thin and the courtship process is onerous and annoying.

There’s no way to answer this question, but I bet the number of people who are in relationships because they really truly want to be is smaller than the number of people who are in relationships because they feel they can’t do better, or are tired of flakey chicks, etc. I believe that, subconsciously, I responded well to non-monogamy for a bunch of reasons… one being that it can effectively deal with the large number of flakey chicks out there. One reliable girl is better than 10 flakey ones and if a flakey one shows up on a date with the reliable girl, it’s a win-win.

Get outside of the big cities and you’ll see the dating market get really thin really fast. In that environment, pairing up makes sense, because the good ones won’t be on the market forever. It’s more attractive to be an eternal bachelor in the thicker, dense cities, because there is always new tail around the corner.

Women can think the same thing but the biological clock is working against them to a much greater degree past age 30. So many women in their 30s in the big cities are trending towards spinsterhood because they misuse their valuable assets.

Very few people do things for entirely “rational” reasons (I used to think I knew what “rational” means in general, now I don’t really), and understanding our own internal drives is very difficult.

Game, intelligence, IQ, image match

The players writing about the game almost always have above-average intelligence, and it shows in their writing. This makes sense because you can’t be a total dummy and develop high-level game skills. It’s too complex to learn the skills, integrate the skills, practice the skills, and so on, for real dummies to do this. You have to plan and execute ideas. Some of the things you do may not bear fruit for many months or years (IQ, conscientious, and foresight are correlated). Diet and exercise discipline is hard and takes months or years to see results. You must learn from harsh rejections and cruel women. If you are too stupid to get feedback from women, incorporate the feedback, make changes, and try again, you will fail. The Internet is full of guys doing the same thing over and over again, then complaining about chicks.

We know quite a bit about food and nutrition but it takes time and energy to learn these things, which many people never do. I myself have spent thousands of dollars over the years on coaches, trainers, and physical therapy (to repair damage). These things are impractical for the ignorant… or just stupid. Someone bedazzled by images and unable to learn from reading is probably not going to execute the game effectively. Someone who likes playing video games to the detriment of the rest of his life, same problem.

Don’t want to toot my own horn too much, but I have heard guys who get into this say there are fewer idiots than they expected. To be sure “smart” isn’t everything and smart-enough people can have motivated reasoning problems. Krauser, to use one sample, suffers from a lot of motivated reasoning and racism but his overall IQ can’t be so low. The racism and foolishly anti-immigrant sentiment is linked to his motivated reasoning; he often denies historical and scientific fact that conflicts with his racist, in-group views. Yet his overall IQ is evident from his writing.

Going back to the image match thing, some girls will not sleep with guys below some minimum IQ (or will do so very rarely and in exceptional circumstances, like sports heroes or very hot guys). I’ve had success with smart girls who won’t f**k stupid guys but who are pretty… and they have a small market because plenty of “smart” guys (in a raw IQ sense) smarten themselves out of style, social skills, and game. Think about many engineers and programmers on the autism spectrum. So I can end up pressing a lot of those girls’ buttons very quickly. Some pretty but smart girls have found me almost a relief from the basic guy, and while they are not super common themselves but I have found myself in a lot of situations where they congregate. Dumb girls will often f**k smart guys who are also fun and flirty, so smart guys with game can go down in IQ and still touch on the smarter girls.

It can go the other way, too… for long term relationships… after you have f**ked a girl a couple hundred times, maybe a thousand times… her physical beauty is just not going to be as important as it was the first time you saw her, the first time you got her nude, etc. It won’t be unimportant but it won’t matter as much. Her capacity to say surprising things, learn new things, etc…. that can continue for her entire lifespan. Smarter girls will also understand the importance of fitness and nutrition, and they will have the ability to understand that eating the ice cream today has important negative consequences tomorrow. The smartest people don’t just take in, judge, and evaluate new information… they use that information effectively to make changes. Longer-term relationships work better with girls who are effective than girls who are ineffective. If you are an old enough guy, you have met hot girls, or once hot girls, who have lots of short and medium term relationships but can’t seem to keep the guy. Sometimes the fact is that they are hot but vapid, so a man is happy to f**k her until he’s bored of her. F**k a woman a sufficient number of times and you’re likely not with her anymore just cause she’s hot.

Our society does a poor job teaching guys what chicks want… so guys who want to really know, have to learn for ourselves, and from other guys. This is hard for guys who are blinded by advertising, video games, etc., or guys who are just dumb.

Loneliness and long term versus libido

It seems like there’s some trade-off between loneliness and libido, in a way that I didn’t feel when I was younger. For quite a few years I wanted to f**k as many hot chicks as possible, as often as I could, and when I did that, it was good. Body, soul, and psyche in perfect alignment. I still want to do that, but there is an undercurrent of loneliness and melancholy to random hookups, even with really hot chicks (some of me going on about the subject, here, here, probably some other spots too). That means I should seek something longer term, right?

Then… there is the libido thing… when I see or worse interact with a hot chick, I still want to f**k her. There are some ways to try and minimize the distinction between them… but I don’t think they’re going away, as a trade off.

I don’t have the typical 2,000 words of elaboration on the theme… it’s just a feeling that I’ve had for a while. Life is about contending with problems, not about ease. When I think about the long term, I want companionship. When I think about the next hour, I want a hot wet naked chick writhing underneath me. I think about some of the gorgeous and wonderful women I had writhing underneath me five or seven years ago, and I can barely remember some of them, in some cases. Their effect on the current life is almost zero.

What do I mean by “levels” of game/seduction discussion?

Guys have been asking what I mean when I talk about the “level” a given piece of advice operates at. There are at least two ladders of levels, maybe more, but for now we’ll focus on two ladders: the game level, and the discussion/pattern ladder.

There are GAME levels: the first bunch of levels are where the man does almost all of the work, typically. Initially, the man takes the brunt of the rejection, because he asks the woman out, sets up the dates, tries to f**k her. Sex is a fulcrum point; after a man and woman have had sex, more of the power and rejection ability shifts to the man. Before they have sex, the woman has more power. Men want to know, “Why won’t she put out? When will she put out?” Women want to know, “Why won’t he commit? Why doesn’t he call me after sex? Why doesn’t he acknowledge my love?” The seduction discussion among men is almost always about getting to sex and its immediate aftermath. The seduction discussion among women is almost always about getting a man who is high status and attractive to commit to the woman. Conversations about getting to sex seem weird and forced to a woman, because, for her, sex isn’t hard to get. Some man asks her out and tries to f**k her, and if she says yes, it happens. She can ask almost any straight male she knows to come over, and he will, and he’ll f**k her. Online dating simplifies this further.

On the other side, however, conversations about getting a high-status man to commit seem a little weird to many men, who haven’t been that high-status man and have spent most of their lives struggling with women. Most men struggle to get a single woman in their lives, let alone a high-status woman who wants to commit, so they don’t understand the woman’s struggle to get a top man to stay.

Women are not stupid (a common refrain around here), and they know that they can have sex quickly and easily if they want. Many guys, however, don’t understand women and don’t understand that the female discussion is almost always past the “good sex” stage. Sure, there are articles about how to bait men into making the first move, especially guys who are +2 in SMV, but the bulk of the discussion happens at the later levels (“Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures” has greater detail).

Much advice is garbage because it doesn’t talk about SMV level. Are you accurately assessing your own SMV? The SMV of the person you’re interested in? What that disparity or lack of disparity implies? Too little discussion addresses raising SMV… which is one big advantage of the red pill discussion: the red pill and seduction discussions begin with lifting, fashion, and diet. It’s about raising SMV, if you want to have more casual sex, as a man, or if you want to get better men, as a woman.

Too much leadup. Some possible levels in the game:

  • Non-verbal indicator of interest (IOI).
  • Approach.
  • Initial rapport/seduction/whatever.
  • Exchange of numbers and contact information.
  • Date / seduction.
  • Kissing/stroking.
  • Bounceback, logistical challenges.
  • Clothes come off.
  • Sex: the fulcrum point, where the female discussion starts: women want to know how, once a man has high enough status to lay them, to please the man and keep him interested and around. A lot of the male discussion ENDS here.
  • Comfort/aftercare/bonding, especially if the woman has had deep sexual experiences and she doesn’t want to feel cheap/used/discarded. Many men fail here. Once they’ve fucked they feel their “job” is done, which is a good way to needlessly hurt a woman. This is where a lot of women don’t want to go home and a lot of men want women to go home. Not universal, obviously.
  • Repeat sex/dates.
  • Where is this going?” conversation. Defining the relationship. That kind of thing. Many men don’t even get here, or only do so once or twice in their lives.
  • Committed relationships.
  • Cohabitation.
  • Marriage (I think this is a bad deal for men in most Western societies but it’s here for the sake of completeness).
  • Children/family/family structure. Overall life trajectory. Building soul and spirit.

Later on, there is group consciousness, pattern recognition, etc. There is understanding of a woman’s needs, psychologies, etc. And not all women are the same.

A woman who really wants to be monogamous and have a family (these do exist, contrary to what you may read in some parts of the Internet) will be different from the wanton sex positive sluts I have found myself specializing in. High-status, high-value guys are much more likely to get here, and low-status guys should work on fixing and raising their status.

These stages can occur over long periods or short periods of time. Mystery’s famous rule posits that most women need 4- 10 hours of exposure to a man in order to have sex with him, though it’s possible to have a great sexual experience in a bar bathroom half an hour after meeting a chick. It’s also possible to know a chick for months or years before you plunder her. I’ve done both.

Discussion/pattern level.

  • The “bottom level” among guys is things like “happy wife, happy life.” Or, “What do women want?” Or, “I don’t understand why she did this thing.” Or, “She says she wants a nice guy but only dates assholes.” Or, putting women on a pedestal. It’s a foggy mixture of confusion, hostility, admiration, desire, and uncertainty. Game strives to demystify this process. These things are all maladaptive guy thoughts and behaviors, and they’re the comments of guys who are clueless.
  • The (better) Reddit red pill discussion is a step above that, thankfully. It’s about the need for men to improve: diet, lifting, socializing, etc. It’s about the need to eliminate negative influences like video games, pr0n, TV, etc. It’s about learning to approach and accept that women like sex and have sexual criteria. Unfortunately it often stops around here. I’m aware of red pill’s limitations but also approve of it on the net because it’s an improvement for the average guy.
  • The (worse) Reddit red pill discussion is about how women are evil demons and shrieking harpies and just trying to shake men down for money. This is the “anger phase” that men who discover cheating, men with f**ked up lives, men who have suffered through the divorce and “family” law court system, etc. are facing. Anger is an understandable response to trauma, but it is not the whole story.
  • The evolutionary biology discussion is a step above typical red pill discussion, or at a similar step. It’s about learning long-term patterns of attraction, behavior, and incentives for men and women. It’s about field reports and testing the theory in real life.
  • A step above that is applying patterns to individual cultures and situations, as well as dating situations.
  • A step above that is seeing women as members of a group but also evaluating them as individuals: we are both at once. Not all women are alike, though one can see patterns.
  • A step to the side of this relates to things like having FMF threesomes, and that sort of thing. Things that are way off most guys’s radar, because most guys don’t get past the beginner issues. A top guy who understands women and understands the stages of intimacy from meeting a woman to a lifetime with a woman can develop a level of mastery few men ever achieve. And, to be fair, a lot of men are content with one woman, and a family.
  • Another step to the side of this is consensual non-monogamy, group sex, and the related things I’ve trafficked in. These things aren’t for everyone.

Other thoughts

Non-monogamy, for me, usually slots between “repeat sex” and “Where is this going?” You can put sex clubs in that zone as well, although sometimes “where is this going?” will appear earlier, in dates/seduction. If a woman says she is not looking for anything serious, thinks monogamy is silly, likes experimenting with drugs, likes music festivals, has an avoidant attachment style, cannot become deeply psychologically intimate with another person, etc., then she’s likely a party girl and an especially good candidate for sexual exploration. A woman who is looking for something serious, wants to have a family, is close with her family, etc., is not as good a candidate. Experienced guys also learn that sometimes a one from one category can be trained to be in another, but more often than not it’s better to work with a woman’s native disposition, rather than against it.

Consciousness of the other person’s world(s) might be another, and one I have been talking about lately, maybe because I find myself thinking about ways out of the game… I am not going to be able to get top girls forever and I don’t think I want the rest of my life to be about chasing tail.

Some men don’t like spending time with women (Krauser seems to be like this) and that impedes relationship/emotion formation. I’m not saying that men automatically have to want relationships or emotional connection but I am noting it. Guys who are “Dark Triad” (narcissistic, machiavellian, and sociopathic) aren’t going to be able to form deeper relationships with women, any more than a brick is going to be able to swim.

Other levels could be devised, and I don’t claim this to be exhaustive… some levels could be collapsed or expanded. “Theory” and “practice,” for example, are common divisions, and those are fine too. Some keyboard jockeys spam repeat red pill platitudes rather than telling stories from their own lives… I push many guys towards writing blogs because I want to read their stories and a large body of writing is often a good way to do a first pass as to whether they’re likely full of shit or not. Plus, the red pill and seduction discussions aren’t happening in the wider culture, so what can we do to ameliorate that problem? Have them ourselves. Be the change that needs to happen in the world.

Another point around levels is 1. underlying value, 2. game/conveying value and 3. environment. Many guys attracted to red pill and seduction have low value and must raise their value (thus that conversation is happening). Without higher underlying value they will most often image match. A male 5 will find a female 3 – 5. Many guys can raise their value a lot through the standard red pill advice… if it is executed properly. Just like a lot of women can raise their value when they quit sugar, be less bitchy, etc.

A guy with pretty low value who tries to learn “game” is likely to be disappointed… and he is going to have a lot of corrosive interactions with women. Then he is going to sign up at the usual sites and complain about how mean women are, not realizing that he’s seeing his own value reflected back at him. If he is a 5 chasing 7s he is going to have a rough time. If he is a 5 who can raise his value to a 7 the game is still challenging but he will be much more in the game and much less likely to take to Internet fora to write about how women are super duper bad.

Neither men nor women are bad, on average…. there are bad individuals in each group…. if you think half the planet is universally bad… that tells us about you, not about women, or men.

Male value is more malleable than female value and men are more inclined to date up AND down in age range. The “bitter older woman asking where the good men are” genre occurs almost exclusively after age 30 and most often after age 35, when top guys in that age range are dating women in their 20s, or have already married and have families. Stories by women about how bad men are, are almost always stories about how a woman is disappointed that a man who is +2 SMV compared to her doesn’t want to be monogamous with her.

This genre about the “good men” deficit exists because women are surprised that their SMV goes down and the guys they could get easily at age 25 are now passing on them or choosing easy sex without commitment. Delusional women think that men primarily desire social status / wealth / confidence / education etc., so women will cultivate those virtues in themselves, only to find men are not totally indifferent to those things, but are not primarily moved by them. I mean, I’d love to have women in my life who make more money than me and are also hot and also want to lavish me with sexual attention, etc., but that is not a typical outcome. Most people see their incomes rise throughout their early lives and incomes tend to peak around age 50, and in the 45 – 60 range. I don’t believe I’ve ever had sex with a woman that old and my interest in it is nonexistent, though maybe one day I will (I won’t be able to get anyone else!) and, for most women, by the time they generate the highest incomes, they are not in my target priority pool. I understand why guys who are uncertain of their value and who don’t bring much are worried about higher-earning women but to be honest if you’re working on value in other fields you should be all right. Half of doctors and a lot of other people in the medical professions are now women and not all of them are unattractive.

“More malleable” status still requires putting in the work, which most guys can’t or won’t. Many guys are also building from shitty foundations, so the foundations must be torn up and rebuilt, and that’s hard. In some ways I have been building value since I was a child… and reaping it throughout my adult life. Many guys also don’t see the higher levels of game, which can get a bit “hippie” like when it comes to raising consciousness, helping others build their value, etc.

For example, there is the endless Internet talk of the “nice” guy. Women like men who are kind… but not men who are weak supplicants hoping to f**k based on being “nice.” Women do like hot, high-status guys who are also kind, not based on trying to get sex, but based on genuine non-reciprocity and conscious decision-making… from a position of strength. I am not a nice guy… I have slept with women who now hate me… I have fired people who needed the job but were bad at it… I have broken rules… I have slept with married women… but I have also been kind, at times. I have given value without getting anything in return. I have helped people, including strangers. I have gone the extra distance. I have played with small children in front of attractive women (I have a fun and favorite story about this subject). By the time I was 20 or 21, however, I had figured out that being “nice” to women is a turn off and demonstration of lower value (DLV) that moves me away from f**king her, not towards f**king her, so I quit doing that.

Do women like “nice” guys? It depends. Definitely not niceguys, one word, but do they like a guy who they see as having high SMV, who is maybe a little mysterious in some ways, doing something nice for someone else, without any expectation of things in return? Probably. But they also like funny guys… most humor has an edge… if you don’t have an edge, you won’t be that funny. I have made mean comments… told mean jokes… I will again too.

I am getting off topic, but I am overall in favor of Rollo, Reddit’s Red Pill and seduction, etc., even when some guys aren’t, because they aid the average or low level guy in rising above his most basic level. They clear away a lot of bullshit mystification and set guys up to reach the higher end of their abilities. So that is a net win in my view, even if Rollo and red pill guys tend to cluster at the lower level of the ladders, and I want mostly to talk about the middle and upper end of the ladders… there is a lot of good material on developing underlying game and value in Krauser, in the book Mate, in other places, so I don’t have anything unique to add there. Game can be thought of a little bit like chess in that for good players the first 5 – 10 moves are memorized calls and responses and gamed out… the interesting stuff happens midgame.

But… to go back to the open forums and some blogs… some of these places focus too much on resentment, and how women are bad (they’re not, in most cases, unless men let them be bad…. women are mostly self-interested), how feminism is bad (modern feminism is bad, I agree, and I’m glad someone wants to fight that fight, but I don’t), etc. These places rarely have any talk about how to get guys from the medium level into the higher levels. I doubt most guys who get to the higher levels spend time in these places. The places with voting, tend to have strong crab-bucket mentality, in which low-level guys downvote anything that they can’t perceive, because it’s too high level for them to understand or get. Many of them are in the “anger” phase when they realize they’ve been lied to for much of their lives and that they would have been better off lifting heavy weights in high school than “being themselves,” soulfully waiting for some flighty teen girl to notice them, but she didn’t, cause she was off f**king a wrestler.

Without knowing where a guy is… it’s hard to address his needs, beliefs, etc. I have spent time at the lower parts of this ladder, with lots of limiting beliefs, etc., that meant I didn’t perform where I should have performed. That said I have not had some of the physical, intellectual, and social problems that some guys describe. I have not married the wrong woman and then suffered divorce-rape. I have not had some of the extremely bitter and caustic experiences some guys have, which damages their psychologies. I have had plenty of negative experiences with women, but none of the truly awful ones. Some of that has been luck and I don’t deny luck’s role. I have had a lot of luck! Given my love of raw dogging… a lot, lot of luck. Some of it though has been a decent amount of work building and protecting value. I also had a pretty early sense of reciprocity and value exchange… so if a woman was trying to take value without offering any in return, I was (somewhat) good at protecting myself from that. Not perfectly because in my teens and early 20s I was scared of top girls lavished a lot of attraction-killing retention, followed them around like a puppy, listened to their stories about the guys they really liked or were fucking, etc. I needed eye-contact work and escalation work. But I was never as low as some guys are/were, and I had some things going for me.

The bottom-level discussion online has clarified things for me, taught me things, made vague ideas concrete. I don’t scorn that level of discussion. Many guys need it. The absence of top-level discussion is revealing… it tells us about the state of the masses. That’s why I began writing the blog… I realized that in other venues, almost no guys faced the “where is this going?” conversation, and wouldn’t understand the dilemmas faced by guys who get it regularly. I realized that the high-level discussion of sex clubs for players would have no role. Most often the response would be “cuck lol.” For a guy who struggles to get and maintain one woman… who is worried about losing her… who is unsure about his own status… this response makes a lot of sense. I get where he’s coming from. He’s playing a risky game with rewards he can’t perceive. For a guy who struggles with liking women and wanting to maintain them while also achieving sexual novelty… this strategy can make sense. Where a guy is will condition his response.

There’s also nothing wrong with being a beginner… almost all of us start there… but most guys never seem to get past the most beginner of beginning stage.

It’s perfectly normal of course for a guy to be high level and not like what I’m doing. But a guy who is at the lower levels… he can probably barely understand what I’m doing, or the problems I’m familiar with facing.

In real life I meet plenty of guys who never get past the lowest levels. They’ve had one or a very few girlfriends they got by luck and circumstance. They don’t understand women. Maybe they got married and now their marriage is stale and they don’t understand why. Their wife or girlfriend isn’t intersted in sex with them. They stay together “for the sake of the kids” without understanding what is wrong. They “got lucky” with her. They say, “She’s the boss” (words that have never passed my lips and never will). They tolerate bad behavior because they think they have to. Plenty of guys never get past these levels… and they can still get a woman of some kind, have kids eventually, pass on their genes, etc., but the sense of mystery and frustration never ends. It troubles them when they are watching sports or playing video games… then their team does the thing, or their video game makes a fake fitness demand on them, and the trouble vanishes, cause the team just did the thing or the video game requires a move.

The red pill and seduction communities exist to boost these guys. Plenty of them will accept the boost… but not that many will go all the way… I am interested in the ones who want to go all the way, who want to play the game but also understand the game, who want to seduce women but also improve the women who are open to being improved and worth of being improved, the ones who want to master the game so they can move past the game.

I don’t submit myself as one who has surpassed the game or one who is at the highest levels… I can see the higher levels, I believe. Chances are I can never reach most guys cause most guys are at the lower levels or if they aren’t they will never find this. I can keep trying to do a little better, though.

Types of girls and dangers of most seduction techniques

Redpill and seduction communities are focused on hot young party girls. And that’s fine! Great, even. I’ve spent loads of time chasing and attempting to f**k and sometimes even f**king these girls, so I’m well familiar with them and why redpill and seduction guys give the advice they (we) do. But the girls who have either quit that phase or who have never really been in it… they are not going to accept a lot of techniques you’ll hear the most about. You need to master the game to move beyond the game, if you want to find and get them… a theme I have been blathering on about lately. Those girls might be much more interested in your underlying value and your commitment willingness, rather than your party f**k-boy manslut ways.

Today’s discussion begins from me, noticing that “women are the ultimate red pillers. Men are just noticing what’s already there,” regarding some chick’s conversation with her hypergamous friend,

Then FortWorthPlay said, “NEVER feel bad for using Dread Game..they secretly love it and it makes their panties wet.” I’m not so sure…

Depends on the girl I think…. one who is psychologically healthy and really wants a relationship/family needs very little dread, and a very light touch. She’ll reject a guy who does dread game on her.

Most basic college/party girls, yeah, sure.

‘Types’ are important here.

Types” is a Nash point… one I have adopted… I have been “a certain type of player” and also Nash has written about “types” on this blog, “First off, you’re doing something SMART here by starting with some TYPES. It is a simple fact that we are not all the same, and by defining some types… we can introduce some tools and immediately know that they are not for everyone, but that doesn’t make them invalid. With that said… for me the ‘poly’ community is a fucking mess.”

Types. Environments. I have been most consumed by chasing hot chicks in the city. Big-city girls, and particularly young ones, are also more likely to be hunting fun sexual experiences from the ever-discussed “alpha males.” I have spent some time in smaller cities for work and they have a less feral sex culture. Women and men marry earlier. Children are more common. Divorce may be more common as wel but that is a separate point.

Continue reading “Types of girls and dangers of most seduction techniques”

Tough conversations. Downside of being known as a player

Tough conversations this weekend. I’m having some challenges making some of the changes I want to make, and I am suffering some right now because I have been a player for a long time and have a player reputation and a lot of player instincts. The player instincts don’t serve me well in trying to develop a longer-term relationship with a woman who has a more secure attachment style and who knows what she wants.

A word on reputation and what chicks are looking for. Players tend to filter out family-oriented chicks. A few guys have been talking about this on Twitter, although none blog, so I can’t link a canonical post on the subject. But chicks who want monogamy and families exist: they’re the ones who are not interested in guys who give off player vibes. Some are very pretty. They usually have a small number of lifetime sex partners, don’t have sex immediately, and find guys who are attractive, have their shit together, and are career-oriented. Priorities and what you bring to life (Katie’s story) is about this type of chick. Sexually adventurous chicks make for interesting and fun stories… extremely family-oriented chicks don’t, usually. I am thinking of two chicks I know who were (and are) very pretty and followed the family-life pattern. Often these chicks will compromise somewhat on “looks and extroversion” to get “family-oriented and monogamous.” They often find long-term guys in their 20s and often work jobs that give them access to guys with good earnings and family orientation.

Many family-oriented, mostly monogamous chicks who will have one or two flings in their lives… if you catch them at the right time with the right game you may get with one… but these chicks keep their wilder impulses under control and filter guys for being better dads and providers. This is the kind of woman who, if you cold approach her, will say “no” and move on. She’s probably never been on Tinder or, if she has, she quit it in disgust. She’s not doing the things Red Pill guys complain about, but she’s also looking for a guy commensurate to her in value, so low value guys are going to be just about sexually invisible to her. Many online Red Pill guys are low value and thrashing about women because it’s almost impossible to overcome being low value, kind of like fat chicks complaining about men. For fat chicks, their number one problem in accessing higher-value men is being fat, and pretty much nothing they do without changing their diets and movement habits will improve their situation.

Reputation matters and chicks are going to judge you on, like you judge them on it (if you know them). Continue reading “Tough conversations. Downside of being known as a player”

Whoops. Last weekend. Backsliding in game.

Went to a private party two Saturday nights ago, intending to see some friends and leave. Said party was much larger than I thought it would be, with fewer people who I knew, but enough that I could do a lot of chitchat and set merges. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a woman I’ve f**ked a few times before, not recently (last time was two years ago?) and have also hung out with apart from f**king. She looks very good for her age, late 30s, with a high 7 body (must have been boy-slender while she was younger, so she has grown into her body, as some very thin chicks do) and a less-good high 5 / low 6 face. Her body looked very good in her lingerie bodysuit… we got around to talking, very close together, a lot of eye f**king, and then I asked if I could kiss her (necessary in that environment). She said yes and it progressed straightaway from there, into kissing, groping, me spanking her vigorously… despite some wrist/elbow problems, that I foolishly ignored in the moment, with her getting more and more into it, me getting more into it, moving her by her hair, having her go down on me to get me hard, then me bringing her onto a bed for a minute. It was very on, and we f**ked on the bed, then I put her on a spanking bench and really let rip.

I don’t mean to brag, but I railed this girl harder than Amtrak. I also caught that mystical moment when you’re pleasurably f**king the girl, you’re totally engaged, but you’re not moving too much towards orgasm and can control the flow. We probably f**ked hard. I believe she had one clitoral orgasm with her fingers, then, while she was on the spanking bench (not this sex bench but in the same neighborhood), and I felt off, and she then had a full-body g-spot vaginal orgasm. I think the spanking bench was key because she could relax the tension in her entire body and let her weight be distributed along her shins, knees, and torso, with just her p***y opening available at the end for me to rail. And I could hold her by the neck, hair, or hips… having her by the back of the neck seemed to do it for her, so I did that. Maybe she got a little bit of choking sensation from the weight.

I almost came from her clitoral orgasm, but I managed not to by slowing my speed and even holding still while she spasmed. Then, as her p***y began to relax again, I started going again. I asked her if it was too much and she said no, and sure enough I could not outlast her more intense orgasm. It felt like hours passed, but realistically it was probably like 10 minutes, maybe 13 – 15… 10 minutes of extreme exertion… not quite like sprinting (no one can sprint for 10 straight minutes), yet still enough to be physically exhausting. I know about the hours thing, because I have checked the tape and seen that what can feel like an hour turns out to be six minutes or something (chicks will also posit that we were at it for like an hour, but time stamps don’t lie to either of us). I have even asked chicks… “How long was that?” “30 minutes.” Then the tape shows that it was like 6 or 7 minutes… you cannot trust people on the subject of sex. Even if we don’t mean to lie, we lie.

When this chick, I will call her Skinny Minnie, and I finished we lolled together for a while, very much in our own world. Other people instinctively and intelligently let us be. It felt like we were in that post-sex bonding high state for many hours, but, again, I’m sure it was in reality far shorter than that.

I admire women in the 35 – 50 range who haven’t given up… there could be a lot more women who still have some sexual allure in that age range, but they don’t because they love sugar, simple carbs, and drinking more than they love sex, sensuality, and connection. Obviously no 40 year old woman is going to be as attractive as a hot 20 year old woman, but many of them could still have something going for them if they weren’t lazy and undisciplined. Saying this is like complaining about the weather, as I’m not going to change it, but my admiration for those who don’t let themselves morph into jabba the hut and then blame it on their kid or their job has gone up.

I theorize that Skinny Minnie and I were just familiar enough with each other to have great sex, but not so familiar as to be bored. We’d just gotten over the unfamiliar to familiar line and could thus relax into the f**king. The only regret is the condom, though it was necessary given the circumstances. The great sex may have had nothing to do with familiar/defamiliar and it might just be one of those things that happens if you go at it enough times and keep honing your skills.

For someone who probably has annoying feminist political views and who probably hates children, I like Skinny Minnie a lot. Online life is disfiguring our ability to hang out, bond with other people, and not go into paroxysms of bullshit over every relatively minor political thing that happens. I’m talking to you too, angry Red Pill guys.

On Sunday (a little less than two weeks ago now), I went to a more sedate event… and this girl was there! Unbelievable. She was also there with another couple, who we met together. We talked some, but she has had some tumultuous life events and problems that I don’t want to enumerate because they are very specific to her. I was so so hot for her at first… I have pictures that make you think she’s a high 9 and pictures that could make you think she’s a high 6. Angles and lighting, man. I was so hot for her when I first laid, and now I can barely remember why. Some chicks, when body and mind are very appealing to me, I can stay very attracted for a very long time (e.g. Short Dancer).

Strangely, I feel bad on the net about that weekend, because it moved me further away from my “long range” goals. I also ate a piece of bread and some pasta at the event on Sunday, against paleo principles… eating wrongly is interesting because a very small amount of wrong goes a very long way for me… when I have slipped in the past, I have felt substantially worse than I typically do, yet with very little slippage. I can’t fathom the typical people (fatties, mostly) who eat all this sugar and feel like shit 98% of the time. That could explain why so many people are f**king c**ts.

I wasn’t congruent between short term and long term goals. I can likely “get away” with it in some sense, but that is not a good way to think if you want to build lasting, purpose-driven relationships. Most people WILL notice incongruence over time. That is also the basis for some of my view in relationships with women, like, it is good to trust but verify… so you basically trust her, but if you have the opportunity, double check. She says she’s with her best friend Tuesday night, so next time you see the friend, “Tell me about Tuesday.” Does the best friend know what you mean right away?

She’s working late, so you bring her a snack without warning… you walk in, drop it off quickly, and leave. Is she happy to see you? What’s her body language like with her coworker? Etc. Is her behavior congruent with what she says? Contrary to what you read among angry Red Pillers, most women are pretty congruent, once they are established in a relationship. But it is also a good idea to keep the temperature of the congruence… is she suddenly developing new “guy friends?” Is her relationship first? Is what she wants and what you want the same? Does she say she wants a family but doesn’t behave that way? Does she say she wants to party but you can tell she wants a family? These are all things to think about.

Then there are other forms of incongruence. Does she try to put on a smart/intelligent face but is actually dumb? Is she actually pretty smart but trying to appear dumb? Probably no one, myself included, is 100% consistent and congruent, but it is good to keep your eye on the gauges and note when one is out of whack. Smart chicks are of course doing the same to you, and if you are not living the way you say you are, she will notice.

I don’t think very many people are totally hit blind and without warning about the various ways relationships break down… if you listen to your internal senses, without being paranoid, and run little spot checks… you can figure out what’s up. It’s true that there are a lot of social retards out there in the Internet, who can’t do this, and then bad things happen to them… but most of us need to cultivate our own instincts. If we do that, many problems can be prevented or foreseen, and prepared for. Many men today also do not fundamentally understand that no relationships is automatically permanent… she can leave at any time… once you have internalized this idea, you will structure your life accordingly.

Skinny Minnie… she doesn’t have the best face but her body is still doing well. There is another girl, I’ll call her Blondie, who I slept with for a while four or five years ago… she was curvy (in a genuine, good way) with a flat stomach… not very bright but very attractive, very sexual. So good in bed. Probably a low 8. Maybe mid 8 (then). Now… high 5? Low 6? I saw her again recently, and she is one for whom the idea of the wall was invented. Just shocking degradation, and without having had a kid, over a short period of time. Skinnie Minnie is older but has better discipline (I think) as well as a better body type for aging. Some girls also really know how to f**k and be f**ked, and Skinnie Minnie is one of them.

So that was the weekend before last. Last weekend (six days ago now), I went to a friend’s party that had some elements similar to the prior weekend… but almost no one of interest. One pretty 22-year-old freak (which I like and say in a positive way) who doesn’t shave under her arms (HUGE turnoff to me) was interested… I’ve run into her before… interest is low due to hair issue. It’s a real shame because she’s a solid high 7 if she shaves properly and normally. Watching an attractive woman sexually neuter herself is f**king painful.

Another woman was there who was I just not into… she’s like 43 or 45 or something and is in not bad shape for her age, but to me she’s just not of sexual interest. Drop five or seven years and I think she’d be in the acceptable ballpark. Another couple was asking me what I think of the woman, and I was like, “She’s just not my type.” They kept going, “Why?” I didn’t want to say, “Too old and beat up,” even though that’s the answer… they know it, and I know it, and they know I know. Everyone knows why I wasn’t interested, but in this atmosphere it’s dangerous to admit, “I want the hot chicks not the other ones.” Particularly for casual liaisons. I bet this woman was SMOKING hot when she was 22. She has nice interpersonal energy, bubbly personality, but I feel bad for her… no kids, still trying to make it happen, not getting there. Too many fatties at the party in general… almost all of them were the kind of people who make you think, “With a little bit of discipline and time in the gym you could raise your value a lot.” Something that was true of both the men and the women, by the way. Too much of a freakshow for me, overall, although two of the guys there have basically set up a club/party ecosystem. It’s not an easy way for it to happen, but I understand the appeal.

It’s always funny to feel sexual energy and interest from a chick who is not of interest. As I ratcheted my sexual energy down, she ratcheted hers up. It’s extremely rare for a genuinely attractive chick to move on me… I’m not sure it’s ever happened… sure, sometimes they might hang around in proximity, that sort of thing.

If you get an unattractive woman hitting on you, it should remind you of what women have to go through… an unattractive woman is not a sexual threat to me. A chick may get unwanted attention from a guy who is 8 inches taller than her and outweighs her by 40+ pounds (not that common anymore because of how fat the average chick is, but let’s assume this is for an attractive woman, as large chicks are their own man repellant).

This weekend I am going to lay low and focus on family things and the better relationship. I need to do that more consistently, but I am struggling more than I should between different desires. Magnum reviews the new Krauser book and it sounds like the book is covering some of the psychological territory I am in. I will write more about the book when I am done with it and will probably give my copy away.

One interesting thing is that over the course of my player journey, if I had one, I have gotten better at letting go of chicks who I am not so interested in, and letting go of chicks who are less interested in me. It has probably reduced the lay count quite a bit (fine with me), but it is a better way to live. I was more dogged at first, and there is a place for doggedness… but doggedness can degrade your psychology and make you not like chicks very much.

This has turned into a ramble, but my method for writing is to read some things or have some experiences and then reflect on them and what they mean. These are some recent experiences and some ideas on what they might mean.

Short Dancer vignette

I was thinking about Short Dancer, a girl I saw on and off for like six or nine months, a few years back… on and off, because at the time I wanted her to come to the fleshpots with me and she would not, despite my persuasion work. I wish I’d been monogamous with her for a while, or “monogamous” in my case, as I think I liked f**king her better than just about any chick between now and then. If I had done that, though, this blog wouldn’t have the stories it does… even fewer people would read it than read it now. Despite the numbers and the experiences and the groups that I’ve done between her and today, I liked Short Dancer a lot, enough that I think I made the wrong decision with her, partially because I had a lot going on at the time, and, when I have a lot going on, it’s naturally harder to commit, even temporarily. Sometimes one great chick can be better than 10 okay or good ones… that’s why I think a lot of guys in the game quit it or take long breaks from it, when they find a girl they’re really into, who reciprocates the interest. When you have enough good, but not extraordinary, experiences with chicks, the best chicks become the reason you continue.

Short Dancer was young and in some ways has a conservative temperament… that may surprise you, since she was with me for a time… though in other ways, ways important to me, she does not, and the tension between those two was an interesting part of her personality. I kept trying to get her into a sex shop with me, for example, and she would not go… one time I picked her up in a fireman’s carry and made to bring her in, but her objections seemed to be genuine, so I put her down and we continued on our way. Apart from fleshpots, she accepted many of the things I wanted, and the sex with her was just about flawless… her beauty, her willingness, her submissiveness, her femininity… we had a great dynamic, better in some ways than w/ other chicks since then (which is why I feel like I made an error in letting her pass, to go chase other chicks who are often very good but not quite on the level of the thing we had).

Short Dancer came from an ecosystem, so there’s no game story around her, apart from me cultivating masculinity and making a move when the time was right. So few guys cultivate masculinity today. There’s also not a great story about why I like her more than other chicks… I just do. Good physical chemistry went a long way with her, plus, she also didn’t throw much in the way of shit tests and didn’t have the hot-young-chick disposition around relentlessly tooling guys, going to clubs/parties, etc. The chicks who like basic clubs, attention on social media, that kind of thing, I tend not to get along with them, even when I rope them in, and that could be part of the reason I found the Tinder experiment so awful.

Short Dancer is one of those girls who look even better nude than clothed… I wasn’t 100% sure what I was going to get when I undressed her the first time, but I got everything I might have wanted. She liked posing nude for me, and I like that… she showed some of the shots to a girl we mutually knew, and the other girl was like, “Wow.” Couldn’t believe it, even though the other girl is a too-heavy tramp, or maybe just an attention whore… hard to say. She was too basic for me. Short Dancer also really liked taking direction, even more than most chicks, which I also like.

No real lesson here, just some musing. When Short Dancer was in my life I felt pretty good. The age gap is too large for her to be a good long-term prospect. She is one of the very few girls I find occupying my head space… I jerk my attention away from her, but if I’m not careful it drifts back to her, in a way that it doesn’t drift back to most other chicks. At the time I don’t think I appreciated her, and I was still excited to go chase new chicks… something that I find myself less excited by right now.

In private someone asked if I’ve tried to get her back in… and I have! Unsuccessfully. She also had, maybe has, an official boyfriend, and both of us have complicated schedules, plus, now there is a distance challenge. We all make mistakes, and letting her go was  one of mine… not one that I really consciously made at the time… I let her drift, and she sensed that I wasn’t going to do the monogamy she wanted. Red Pill doctrine incorrectly holds that chicks who you are “aloof” from are going to pine for you and keep coming after you forever… that is true of some chicks, but more functional, intelligent, and self-aware chicks who want a boyfriend/partner and do not get it from you, are going to cut you out and get it from someone else. They may boomerang back periodically based on what they’re finding, and based on guys who won’t make them their girlfriends, but when they find an acceptable guy who will commit, they will depart, and they may simply never talk to you again.

I miss Short Dancer… not something you hear on a lot of player blogs. Do most guys not miss particular chicks, or are they not willing to admit it? Genuinely don’t know the answer here. The best psychology is always oriented towards the future, so maybe guys wisely don’t dwell on the past. Yet many players online seem intent on maintaining a hard-ass facade.

Bike Girl: One year away thoughts

Bike Girl ended a year ago, and I’ve already forgotten most of the details of the end… I wish I’d started writing the blog sooner, as many of the details around various chicks have faded away. There is no substitute for writing very close to the events as they happen in real time. Everything becomes abstract and mushy, given sufficient distance. I’ve been encouraging many guys to write their players journey blogs, and the value of fresh material is part of the reason why… the value of random search engine traffic is another… mostly you should write for yourself, but the fact that you might reach some other poor suffering dude is a nice bonus.

About Bike Girl, Anastasia asked on Twitter, “Have you heard about her after?” Not too much: little bit here and there… we kept fucking for a while after the breakup… but really we are too different. She is more looking for a guy who is kinda chill and matches her, or a guy who will take care of her (likely financially)… I am neither… she wouldn’t put it that way, though. Fort Worth Playboy asked, “How would she frame it?” A good question. I think she’d frame it as I’m a jerk and a player who takes advantage of her. I pretend to offer girls one thing, then don’t follow up on it. She was ready to move to the next stage and I cruelly ditched her. She is pretty enough that she can find guys who will happily commit to her… she has a few in her orbit… like so many chicks she’s most into a guy who won’t commit to her room, board, and upkeep. I’m a little harsh in the last sentence, as she did have a job when I was with her. But only a little harsh.

I think I confuse some chicks, because I don’t really read as fuckboy (contra this, which reveals more about the quality of Low-cut top girl’s mind and thinking than it does about me), but I also don’t really read as monogamous “good guy.” So chicks don’t really know how to categorize me… The ones I get along with, aren’t bothered by this. The chicks who are happy doing something a little different than the standard categories (e.g. consensual non-monogamy), often like me quite a bit because they get to be different. The ones who want the usual are often flummoxed. The ones who like me are okay thinking in shades of gray, rather than black and white. In conversation I ask a lot of “Why?” and “How do we know that?” and “Are we certain of that?” kinds of questions. Not in a mean way… I don’t try to use them as cudgels… but in a searching way… and girls who are searching like those questions… girls who already know everything don’t like them very much.

I think you can tell which kind of girl I like better. The chicks who are happy doing something a little different than the standard categories (like consensual non-monogamy), often like me quite a bit because they get to be different. Chicks who like rigid categories need to find guys who fit in those categories.

I hope Bike Girl is doing well. I could ping her again… last I heard I believe she was dating someone. I wish her well… but she is going to have a tough time trying to get a “got it all” (looks + money + charisma) guy. She can get a guy w/ one or two of those, I think. She seems like the kind of chick who will keep looking for the “just right” guy, as her 40th birthday sails past and her fertility window closes. I know some women who just stay on the shelf too long… it’s sad, but common. Maybe increasingly common. Our idiotic culture tells women that she should HAVE IT ALL. Stupid. But almost no one “has it all.” Not men. Not women. No one in our culture tells men that we need to “have it all.” I wonder why.

(That last statement is sarcastic.)

With the blog, Nash says, “I can tell by the way you write that pieces are ‘fresh,’ they aren’t stewed-on for weeks… and I appreciate that about your writing. I want to do more of that.” Some of them I sit on for too long… not all, though. I’m a fan of the 12″ MacBook and similar computers for their portability… got an idea? Pop in for coffee, execute it, move on. It’s amazing how far tech has come… laptops used to have to be big and heavy to be functional… now they don’t. By the way, don’t buy a 12″ MacBook the day this is being published in May 2019, as they are overdue for an update.

UPDATE: The 12″ MacBook is dead and now replaced by the 13″ MacBook Air. A less portable machine and I wish the 12″ MacBook had been updated.

I was tempted at times to start the blog earlier, but I didn’t because I knew it would suck up more time and energy than is desirable. As a consequence, many of the details have faded; looking at my writing from just one or two years ago shows me as much. I remember previous girls, that they existed, a few things about them and about us… but not the stuff that speaks to how it really was. Strangely, my habit of making sex tapes provides many of those details for other girls. One of my favorite girls, I haven’t written a lot about here, but I think about her a lot.

She was likely a high 7 / low 8, principally due to her youth and hobbies (dancing). For whatever reason I connected with her strongly, but she did not want to do what I wanted to do (sex clubs), and I let her go. I wonder if I should have stuck with her longer… of all the chicks I’ve slept with, for some reason she stays with me the most. One of the early times we fucked, probably the third or fourth, at the end of it she sighed happily and said, “I needed that.” A little moment… a minor one… one I would have forgotten if not for the video… but the way she says it… it’s nice, like a few seconds later when she said that she’d been thinking about seeing me all day. She sounds so satisfied. Very satisfying to me in turn.

Sometimes I leave the camera on for a while after the sex, and the conversation after is tremendously interesting. I think people are more honest and less guarded right after fucking. I didn’t realize that making fuck tapes would catch some of those moments. Come for the smut, stay for the talking.

I have some more stories I need to finish, but I don’t think they have much in the way of real learning points, so they don’t seem urgent. I have been doing a bit of cold approach, but not in a good or consistent way… my head space has been bad for that, and it shows.