Festivals, parties, etc. and the network’s power

Festivals, concerts, the parties that go with them… I read almost no guys writing about them online. So… let’s talk about what happens, within my limitations, because I don’t have a lot of experience with music festivals and concerts, since they don’t match my personality properly… but I know people who do these things and can infer their power. I think the guys who get laid the most, with the hottest chicks, develop a network or ecosystem of people… the people who go usually have friends or make friends, and I think a lot of them have access to drugs that make them more open to meeting people (including chicks) and to offer access, just by starting with basics like, “What have you seen tonight?” “Are you girls rolling or what?”

Also, exposure is one way to get chicks. If you see a chick at two or three different venues, a logical open is, “Did you see at [place]? I think so.” Even a little bit of familiarity can pry open a closed chick. I have seen guys at parties just go by and say “Hey, what’s up?” to almost everyone they see at a party… then next time they’re like, “Hey did I see you at [venue]?” They’re planting lots of seed. At festivals with thousands of people this works less well but even among festival people I think the same faces will show up again and again.

Most importantly, many girls are in a flirtatious and open frame of mind… outside of their “everyday” mode. Party drugs (ecstasy, molly) can make people open to doing things they might not do otherwise. Some chicks like coke. That seems like less a sex/love drug and more of a… I don’t know what to call it.

The best people seem to have good logistics and things like afterparties planned and ready to go. The guys who do really well here seem to have broad, shallow networks. They meet lots of people (men and women), collect lots of numbers, and then keep in contact with people and facilitate connections. Many guys will have lists of girls and ask “Are you going to yyy venue/party this weekend?” Sometimes the hookup happens there, sometimes on a date after, etc. Lots of girls fall away… but the power of the network is high.

Drugs… are dangerous. They can be addictive. It is fine to like them but awful to need them. The other problem with drugs, apart from addiction, is that they destroy a lot of time. Many people after molly/ecstasy need like 48 hours or longer to recover. Alcohol is like this too of course. But if you come to rely on these things or do them too much, they will compromise your other goals in terms of fitness, finance, career, etc. I have seen men and women turning 30, 35, whatever, and realizing that their life consists of a series of parties and drug experiences and sex experiences, but… there is not much to show for it. Most lives need balance. If you are compromising your other goals… you will suffer for it… the quality of your life, family, career, and development will suffer for it. Drugs can be an aid to reaching other people but they can also be very destructive. It’s also easy to get into dangerous credit card debt and have your financial life fall apart.

One thing… I have been at the outskirts of these worlds sometimes… and I can see their power but also their selection bias. The chicks in them are selected for being sex-positive s**ts. So other girls… may become unavailable to you or just less interesting. But some of them… are also good.

Sometimes in real life I’m really attracted to chicks I wouldn’t find appealing online. And that’s true of chicks too. Real life has seduction/feedback/eye contact mechanisms lacking online. We’ve spent our whole evolutionary history evaluating each other in the real world, and like 20 years evaluating each other online… then we are surprised when problems emerge from online.

I think the guys writing pickup material were almost all social retards for most or all of their lives. They are introverts trying to work with their introversion. Their loner nature limits their social networks. So the things normal guys do for girlfriends and sex, don’t apply to most of the pickup guys. Because of their personalities, they’re blind or semi blind to some types of ecosystems.

These guys doing festivals etc. also have compelling pics, often with pretty girls, and use those to judiciously seed their social media accounts. The average guy who spends his days playing video games, watching porn, etc., doesn’t have any of that visual social proof. He literally doesn’t spend enough time with women to understand them properly. His weaknesses are a kind of reverse Matthew Effect. As he gets weaker, he gets weaker, instead of stronger.

Also… if you meet real women… most of them are not like the resentniks online say they are. Yes, there are some bad ones. Yes, many of them will take free value if it’s offered to them (as many guys do). Most of them… are struggling. In ways different from the ways a lot of guys suffer, but not that different. Talk to them enough and you will see their struggle.

There are many good things about pickup seduction and red pill guys. There are also some blindspots, like with any movement/ideology. I want to talk about their positives but I also want to surface some of the blindspots. The world is huge and any person’s place in it tiny. We all mistake our realities for reality.

I’m not 100% sure how to get a guy totally outside the festival/concert/etc. scenes, into them. Just start going? Ask your friends (you have some of them, right?) to go? On this blog I often talk about how to get antisocial loser newbies going (example), but this is one area where I’m not sure how to do that.

One thing to ask is what value you’re bringing. Are you ripped? Do you set up photobooths? Do you have drug connections? Do you make connections among different people? Do you have an afterparty set up and ready to go? Guys should ask these questions and have good answers for them. Chicks bring value just by showing up and being hot. Guys… should try to answer this question. Just being there is okay but I think the better guys go past this.

In-person meetings are just more powerful and immediate than online meetings… online used to work… now everyone is online and it doesn’t. A common theme of my writing is that guys with good sex lives have good social lives. Usually that means minimizing the modern online bullshit of video games, TV, and social media. Top guys develop skills and abilities and social lives that are consistent with getting laid. This is why so much of the seduction conversation is hard… it’s almost never one single thing that gets guys laid… it’s a bunch of things. I have been trying to explain the things I do and I have realized that it’s not one thing, it’s a bundle of things.

Exceptional effort (that is effective) = exceptional results.

Like everything else in life.

Some recent experiences have me thinking about this (I hadn’t been able to capture this facet orf what I do until those experiences). And just observing the world around me. Almost no guy I know seems to have gotten the best sex life just via online. Maybe the ones who are super attractive and don’t need it that much.

Even within game… the best conversations are happening outside public spaces. I didn’t understand that when I started writing this blog, the best insights wouldn’t be posted publicly, they’d come from chats, emails, etc. If you are only living on the public side of the game world, you’re missing out.

Write your player blog. It’s an advertisement, but not in the way you think.

The best and most actionable advice and guidance for guys looking to build their game and become players is private… it’s happening in group chats, emails, etc. It’s not happening public, where some advice is good, some is bad, and a lot is too general. The public sphere has a lot of good and useful information in it particularly for the newest guys who are learning the basics, but each guy has specific challenges, sticking points, etc. In addition, each guy has different internal psychological challenges, and those internal challenges are very hard to self-diagnose. Almost all of us want to protect our own egos and so turn away from difficult truths… me included. To be the best, however, we need to get feedback on our challenges and to ultimately confront them. Or to just improve.

Write your player blog. It’s an advertisement, but not in the way you think. To get into the deeper levels, you need to show that you’re not an idiot (most guys are idiots) and that you’re willing to put in the effort necessary to make progress. Write your player blog and reach out to the guys who don’t seem to be idiots. That’s where the better ideas, coaching, encouragement, etc. happen. You likely won’t get into the substantive and specific conversations without some demonstration that you’re not an idiot first. The blog is that demonstration.

The blog need not even be unique. You can just write about what you’re doing, what’s happening to you, what you notice with chicks, etc. Even a blog about blowouts is going to be more interesting than what most guys are doing (nothing, or repeating platitudes, or writing vaguely about why this one special girl isn’t into them, etc.). Most guys don’t get the feedback they need to improve.

This is a kind of “do as I say, not as I do” moment of advice. I have spent most of my time as a player struggling to learn things on my own instead of accelerating my learning by tapping into the advice/guidance of others. It has worked out okay for me, but I could have done better and probably should have. I also didn’t realize that the material that rises to the level of blogs, or twitter, is only a small amount of that which remains in private chats.

I’m going to be a bit arrogant and say that I am better at this than most guys, and I am still amazed at all the s**t other guys come up with and observe. If that’s true of me, it’s likely true of you as well. There are many guys much better at this than I am, too. Some of them are writing publicly… I include many of their blogs in the links panel… and I bet almost all of them will have more specific and detailed advice in private than they do in public. But they, like me, don’t want to waste time on wankers. Most of the guys I have been speaking to in private, I have also been reading in public for months or years.

Consider this story… in college when that happened, I was operating by instinct and didn’t really know what I was doing… I think that is one reason I encourage guys to write online… most guys have no idea what we’re doing… game gives us a framework. To take my work specifically, with sex clubs, almost no one is writing about this topic. Non-mono more generally is covered by a handful of people… like me, Blackdragon (when he is not pitching “Alpha male magic 3.0 yeah baby yeah conference”), now some from Yoylo and Magnum at times… and that’s it… it’s mostly invisible to most players. The guys who stumble into it, are also doing it by accident (I have some examples of this but they have been sent to me in private). We need to turn game from lore into a proper program, a proper course of study.

THE GAME and MYSTERY METHOD turned seduction from lore into a proper program… and they are still valuable… I am seeking to do the same… I would not have been able to do this without starting the blog… now I hope that others will take up the ideas and extend/apply it. It can be done. The lows are low… but the highs are high.

Don’t ask for nudes. Don’t be pleased if you get them too soon.

Don’t ask for nudes. Don’t be pleased if you get them too soon. I’ve come to realize getting nudes is only a good sign if they arrive after I’ve f**ked her… then the nudes say, “There’s more of this coming your way and I want to entice you.” If she sends them beforehand I seem to be further away from f**king her (and I might never).

Why? I’m not 100% sure, but some chicks appear to substitute nudes for actual f**king. It’s worse if the guy asks…. or so girls tell me… asking for nudes seems to be a demonstration of lower value (DLV) and hot girls are bombarded with requests from low-value guys. I don’t have a strong theory about why this appears to be true, just observation. Some people now seem to prefer masturbatory stimulation to real live sex. Maybe I’m just old school but that’s not me. I’m also old-school enough to not have spent my adolescence and young adulthood watching hours of HD Internet porn every day. In my formative years, we had pics and some video, sure, but the bulk of sexual activity and stimulation had to occur live and in person.

Dexter speculates

My guess is if a woman she sends an explicit pic to you before f**king she thinks to herself

” shit…I sent this guy a nude so if we meet he’ll be expecting sex right off the bat ”

It takes away her plausible deniability.

That’s a fine theory… others may be constructed. Mr. V daygame said,

You forget that woman and men speak a different language. A guy wants pics of tits, a girl doesn’t want pics of dicks. That’s a clear example how men and woman are seduced differently

I only send them if the woman specifically asks for them (some do)… I don’t think a woman has ever asked for pics or videos before she’s had sex with me… after sex, she has a narrative and experiences to connect the visuals to. If she coyly asks I might say, “So you want me to send you nudes.” Again, I’m pretty sure this only ever happens after we’ve f**ked for a while. The story and experiences makes them valuable to her, in a way random guys aren’t. Without the story, they’re just another random guy’s body, and women can see male bodies, even very nice ones, any time they want.

Let me clarify… I am not against nudes at all and have shot thousands of them, almost all of them post sex, when the woman is very much in my frame and flooded with positive emotions and openness after being f**ked. A lot of women who are happy to pose right after being f**ked will later ask that they be deleted. A note for students of female psychology. Answers as to what this means can be posted in the comments.

A very nice camera is now as little as a couple hundred dollars… I remember the first reasonably priced DSLR, the Canon Rebel, that cost $999 or $1199 with lens, I believe. We live in a different world.

If she sends you nudes, try to get her on a date with good logistics as soon as possible. If you can’t get her on the date, she’s seeking attention and that’s it. I’m not in it for attention or for pictures… I’m in it for the physical pleasure and the psychological, spiritual, and physical connection… that’s where the good stuff is.

Guys who really want to get laid, focus on the things/behaviors/strategies that lead in that direction, and ignore other things. Asking for nudes is not a good step on the route to getting laid. I think a lot of guys reading and chatting online are not truly into getting laid.

How to frame and execute nude photo shoots with women

A player, Mr. V., who knows about my nude photography art habit, asks how I do it… I’ve talked about the principles before, but now for some detail…

  • After sex, I tell her to pose, or to hold, then I grab the camera and start shooting. Sometimes I’ll tell her the light looks good or she looks good right there, that kind of thing that makes her purr. Something to make her think that it’s not random jerk-off material but artistic. Girls have been going for the “You look special just now, spread your legs” line since primitive men first took charcoal to cave walls. It worked for Picasso, it worked for Lucian Freud, it worked well enough for that weird artistic guy with long hair in undergrad art classes, it will work fine for you if you’re high value, have good game, and the girl is in your frame. Sometimes I’ll say something about her being especially attractive. After sex, women are eager to hear they’re still sexy, desirable, and good, and that the guy doesn’t dislike them during post-nut clarity. Snuggling, cuddling, and bonding during this period is important. She needs male attention to come back down to the regular world. And… they are still in a sex-positive mood and receptive to the camera’s eye.
  • From there I just kind of assume the sale and turn on the camera while we’re fucking or beforehand. Or I’ll say, “We should make a sex tape,” then do it. I almost never ask explicitly… very much try to assume the sale. Most women will go along with this in the moment, particularly if they’re already turned on.
  • Because the woman is turned on already, that may be why a lot of chicks will ask the next day for me to delete the photos… she gets caught up in the moment while aroused. The next day, in a cold state, she worries about her reputation, shame, etc. What if it gets out? I am the kind of gentleman who will tell her that I deleted them.
  • The number who refuse pics altogether is small… but out there. It’s all in the game.
  • Sometimes I start out with only her backside (no face) and then move forward. Like with a lot of things, chicks might start out uncomfortable with things but then inch into full comfort. The more invested she is, the more likely she’ll want to serve as your muse and model.
  • Having a true standalone camera produces superior results and also feels different to the woman than a guy with a phone. She feels more like a desired model. Every guy has a phone. Be different.
  • Some chicks will show the results to their friends. This seems like a demonstration of higher value (DHV).
  • If she’s a hard no, let it go. A playful disposition will often help her overcome initial shyness.
  • It is good to learn basic photography.

If she’s a hard “no” accept that. There is “yes,” “maybe” “soft (negotiable) no” and “hard no.” Negotiation is the subject of many books so I won’t write a whole thing about it now. Recognizing the hard no and the soft no is a job of the player.

When a woman sends nudes before sex it’s a bad sign, in my experience. Still not 100% sure why but I have some theories in the other post. I personally haven’t gotten a lot of this but I’ve seen a little. I also don’t request nudes from women, almost ever. I think requesting phone nudes is a demonstration of lower value (DLV) and also most women are inept photographers with inept cameras, poor light, and poor composition.

How she behaves towards other people is one day how she’ll behave towards you

How she behaves towards other people is one day how she’ll behave towards you.

Is she mean to other people?

One day she’s going to be mean to you, probably in the same way she’s mean to others.

Does she like to steal? Does she rationalize stealing?

I’ve run into girls who like taking alcohol from parties, or silverware from restaurants, that kind of thing… they seem proud of it. I haven’t seen the deeper levels of this behavior because the stealing is enough for me to distance myself from them.

Does she somehow always have drama with her friends, bosses, family?

One day she’s going to have drama with you, and by the way the police and courts are going to believe her, not you. Logically you can argue that this is not fair, but it’s true, and you need to protect yourself, not argue about notions of fairness.

Does she spend money poorly or earn money poorly?

One day she’s going to come to you for the money.

Does she tell you stories about kicking out some guy right after sex, for no good reason? Does she tell you stories about being mean to guys who are flirting with her? Those are things that are good to know, because you’re going to be her mean story one day and you should prepare appropriately. If she is proud of being mean to other people, one day she’s going to be proud of being mean to you.

Everyone has moments of untoward behavior, including me. If you somehow made a montage of my worst moments I would look bad. Things are grey, not black and white. But when you are building a model of a woman, or of anyone, take into account the red flags. I have been a low-down dirty dog. I’ve also been very effective and enabled experiences that would otherwise not have happened.

Other people are going to judge you the same way. I have lost people because of my interpersonal proclivities. That’s fine, it’s a cost of being alive and living a full life in my view. I do the things I do and pay the price for them, like we all do. But you should decide who you are and what kinds of things you’ll accept in people and what kinds of things you won’t. If you don’t, you’ll get what you get, and then you’ll bear the costs.

Basics like asking the girl out and escalation

For most guys, 97% or more, it’s still about the basics… look at this woman’s story… I’m omitting some of it, but the whole thing is on Twitter.

at some point during the courtship dance, you DO need to let her know you are interested. Sexually. Because, believe it or not, she may not know.

This is a funny story from my own dating days.

In my mid-20s, I played ultimate frisbee. One day, a couple guys joined our game. One blond, the other dark haired. Blond guy was SUPER attractive and extremely good at ultimate frisbee. They both came to our after-game potluck. I can’t recall what happened, but I didnt really consider either of them dating options. However, I did get the dark haired one’s number.

And one night when I was bored, called him for a drink. NOT because I was into him. I really just wanted to leave the house. So I have a drink with the guy, and the whole time, he’s singing the praises of his blond friend. So much that I’m wondering if he’s trying to tell me he’s gay. I was super confused.

Then, some time later, he invited me for dinner with him…and blond friend. Like…okay?

But that was THE ENTIRETY of my contact with these guys. A year and a half later, I ran into Blond Guy. I told him I was engaged to my husband. Blond Guy said, “Why did you pick him over me?”

0.0
O.o
O.0

Like…this was a guy who IN NO WAY made it clear he liked me. He didnt ask me out. He didnt try to kiss me. He didnt even have his friend pass me a note like we were in middle school to tell me he liked me. HOW was I to know?!?!?!? And this was a HANDSOME guy. An athletic guy.

But even he couldn’t date properly.

This is basic escalation. Both guys in the story fail.

A lot of guys will succeed by improving their value, talking to chicks, asking chicks out, showing straightforward interest, and then trying to f**k them. The advanced game stuff you read… that’s the back 10 or 20%…. most guys don’t have the first 80 or 90% down… the stuff that’s like, “Have some balls.” “Make a move.” “Don’t be afraid of rejection.” “Rejection is better than regret.” “Hit the gym.”

In real life, I have heard many MANY women tell stories similar to this woman’s story. Most guys aren’t even taking the easy shots.

In real life, I was like those clueless guys until I was like 20 / 21.

How many women do you think those guys missed because they didn’t say, “Give me your phone number, and let’s get a drink.” Because they didn’t say, “Why don’t we go back to my place and listen to music / watch TV?” Back at his place, kiss her. Then the rest. A lot of guys will be helped just by looking the girl in the eye and escalating. So that she knows he’s interested. Sexually.

This chick was so potentially into them that SHE CALLED THEM. That doesn’t happen much.

Women have these kinds of stories (the linked woman is not a PC SJW lunatic, so that’s cool… not every woman on Twitter is a raving SJW lunatic). Guys they might have f**ked if the guy had made the move. I am interested in exploring the back half of the game that is very little discussed, while also knowing that this woman is right, most guys are guilty of, “IN NO WAY made it clear he liked me.” Most guys “couldn’t date properly.” That means super basic escalation. A lot of girls aren’t getting f**ked, and a lot of guys aren’t f**king, because the guy doesn’t do super simple escalation. I have written this before, but a decent number of my lays came about from girls who were kind of passive or awkward… but who went along… with me… back to my place until we were f**king. A lot of guys in normal life who are considered “players” just have good eye contact, decent bodies, and they escalate until the girl says no…. and sometimes she never says no.

What do I mean by “levels” of game/seduction discussion?

Guys have been asking what I mean when I talk about the “level” a given piece of advice operates at. There are at least two ladders of levels, maybe more. There’s the discussion/pattern ladder, and the game level.

There are GAME levels, and we’ll talk about them first… the first bunch of levels are where the man does almost all of the work, typically. Not always, but usually. Almost always if the woman is attractive. Initially, the man takes the brunt of the rejection. Sex is a fulcrum point. After it, more of the power and rejection ability shifts to the man. Men want to know, “Why won’t she put out? When will she put out?” Women want to know, “Why won’t he commit? Why doesn’t he call me after sex? Why doesn’t he acknowledge my love?” The seduction discussion among men is almost always about getting to sex and its immediate aftermath. The seduction discussion among women is almost always about getting a man who is high status and attractive to commit to a woman. Conversations about getting to sex seem weird a woman, because sex isn’t hard for her to get at all. Conversations about getting a high-status man to commit seem a little weird to many men, who haven’t been that high-status man and have spent most of their lives struggling with women.

Women are not stupid (a common refrain around here), and they know that they can have sex pretty quickly and easily if they want it. Many guys, however, don’t understand women and don’t understand that the female discussion is almost always past the “good sex” stage. There are articles about how to bait men into making the first move, especially guys who are +2 in SMV, but the bulk of the discussion happens at the later levels… “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures” has greater detail. So much advice, from and to both men and women, is garbage because it doesn’t talk about SMV level. Are you accurately assessing your own SMV? The SMV of the person you’re interested in? What that disparity or lack of disparity implies? So much of the discussion doesn’t address raising SMV, which is one big advantage of the red pill discussion, which begins with lifting, fashion, and diet. It’s about raising SMV.

Too much leadup. Some possible levels in the game:

  • Non-verbal indicator of interest (IOI).
  • Approach.
  • Initial rapport/seduction/whatever.
  • Exchange of numbers and contact information.
  • Date / seduction.
  • Kissing/stroking.
  • Bounceback, logistical challenges.
  • Clothes come off.
  • Sex. This is a fulcrum point, and it’s often where the female discussion starts: women want to know how, once a man has high enough status to lay them, to please the man and keep him interested and around.
  • Comfort/aftercare/bonding, especially if the woman has had deep sexual experiences and she doesn’t want to feel cheap/used/etc. Many men fail here. Once they’ve fucked they feel their “job” is done, which is a good way to needlessly hurt a woman. This is where a lot of women don’t want to go home and a lot of men want women to go home. Not universal, obviously.
  • Repeat sex/dates.
  • Where is this going?” conversation. Defining the relationship. That kind of thing. Red Pill guys often stop here, though many don’t even get here.
  • Committed relationships.
  • Cohabitation.
  • Marriage (I think this is a bad deal for men in most Western societies but it’s here for the sake of completeness).
  • Children/family/family structure.

Later on, there is group consciousness, pattern recognition, etc. There is understanding of a woman’s needs, psychologies, etc. And not all women are the same. Continue reading “What do I mean by “levels” of game/seduction discussion?”