The curious, cautionary fates of many of the guys who go deep into game and Internet

Tom Torero has died, and he is said to have died by suicide. RIP. I don’t recall when or how I first started reading him, but it was many years ago, and I bought some of his books. I remember finding both DAYGAME and BELOW THE BELT (neither seem available on Amazon right now, sadly) amusing and at times inspiring: though, like many guys interested in these matters, there seemed to be a thread of darkness running through his soul + writings. He was smart, and I’m saddened by his passing.

There is a line of intellectual descent running through many guys interested in pickup or seduction, and it seems many guys found his work. Right now, the TomTorero.com domain seems dead, and I wonder if anyone has a backup of his material.

A few years back he asked if I’d be on his podcast: for reasons of anonymity and such, I said no, though I listened to some episodes. If he’d been born centuries ago, he might have been a priest, or a heretic, the line between those two positions being thin. Heresy attracts me.

I’m saddened, and have read some of the memorials devoted to Tom, and I’m also thinking about others who have trod, if not his path, then paths adjacent to him: Roosh found god and has become… a curious personage, to be polite, although there are many less-polite descriptions possible. If you wish to have him exhort you to find god yourself and stop sleeping with hot chicks, you can do so, though I don’t personally wish to.

Another guy, Goldmund, tried to monetize game and being a game coach for a number of years, before disappearing for a while and then coming back around, apparently also in some kind of spiritual/religious cast, after family tragedy. I find his recent work and exhortations… not compelling. That he’s done a 180, though, is notable. Why should we believe he won’t randomly change again? He is scientifically and technically illiterate, something he shares with others in this space.

Continue reading “The curious, cautionary fates of many of the guys who go deep into game and Internet”

“How did you figure all this out?” On women and dating

A guy at reddit asks that rarest of things, an interesting question, which got started from this post. The guy says, “I was the outsider for a long time (I box professionally) so I had this idea that it doesn’t matter what the average person says or think, I can do whatever I want. I was super disagreeable and would keep grudges (and of course I lost friends like that). This was my most recent realisation, after finishing my study abroad year in Madrid. Having (the right) friends give you an unwavering amount of confidence and motivation, whether it’s picking up a girl or starting a business.”

Furthermore, “the contrast thing is also very true. A lot of my friends think I get girls mostly because of boxing plus I study at a top university in the UK, but the reality is because I paint and post it on Instagram.” Yet he says grew up in poverty. He asks, though: “how did you figure all this out?” It took me a while to figure out how to answer him, because to answer it with any level of honesty demands detail. So I took a shot:

Getting hit in the face (figuratively, mostly, took boxing lessons but never fought), failing, flailing, struggling, reading Peter Thiel (one of the great geniuses of our age, even when he’s wrong), reading broadly + deeply (the people who tell you fiction is a waste of time are dumb), observing, practicing, feeling humiliated by rejection from chicks, realizing some chick is saying “ljbf” before she goes off to get railed half an hour later, trying to figure things out, reading pickup / game / red pill blogs (for too long now, though I’ve learned much from these guys, even some of the crazy ones), studying Bayesian statistics, studying statistical thinking more generally, talking to guys. Some of the “how did you figure all this out?” is just an interest in puzzles, of which human social life presents many. A lot of guys are stuck in an overly simplistic mindset, where they think “iff a, then success” when in reality “a” may be helpful, but success is rarely, if ever, monocausal. That overly simplistic mindset is evident in many comments online, many of which are so incomplete as to be effectively wrong. Many aspects of success in social life are not only not monocausal, but they’re a matter of balancing opposites: an idea many Internet users reject.

Continue reading ““How did you figure all this out?” On women and dating”

How to think about “future projection” on dates, and how to retain girls better

Sometime along the way to being a player, I figured out that it’s often useful to say something about date 2 when I’m on date 1 with a girl: mention cooking, for example, and say, “Come over for dinner, next time.” Then set a date, usually two days from the moment of the date. So if the date is Tuesday, shoot for Thursday, and feel out her schedule, and schedule that date.[1] Making things happen is man frame, accepting offers is woman frame. Text her the next day, “Good seeing you yesterday, and I’m looking forward to seeing you tomorrow at [time].” She can decline the date at that point (and sometimes does, it happens, it’s all in the game). My classic strategy has been one or two bars on date 1, then try to bounce her home, if possible, and my working theory has been that she’ll respect the effort to lay her, and the boldness, even if she says no. Magnum has used a two-date model successfully, which seems to reduce flakiness and female rejection due to self-perceived negative sluttiness. He thinks the two-date model helps with retention, and he may be right about that, although if the girl feels “on” during date one, he’ll lay her or at least try.

Game is about balancing tension and comfort, and I think most guys who get into the game and studying the game are nerds who tend towards too much comfort and insufficient edge.

This comes up cause a player says he’s “noticing the rate of girls who ghost me after I’ve fucked them once or twice has been going up since I moved to [city].” He’s an older guy dating mostly 18 – 23. Before you say, “it’s the age thing,” remember he’s been doing this successfully for years, and it’s the change in results that’s interesting. A change in one variable needs to be examined on its own, if other variables hold constant. The player says,

My take is I’m getting to sex very fast, usually within 1-2 hours (one girl was on first date, one girl was right away on the 2nd date to my place) I’m giving them good sex and running good game. The vibe seems good until the time they leave. But then when I ping text them the next day they go silent. This used to happen with about a third of the girls I [slept with] that I wanted to see again.

Now it’s happening with about two-thirds of girls he wants to see again. He self-diagnosed as, “My guess is I’m getting to sex too fast with not enough comfort” and that he might come off as too much of a player. Reasonable. “Future projection” is a kind of technical game term that just means, “Talking about something you’re going to do with a chick in the future.” It can help the girl think you’re not yet another guy who is going to f**k her and that’s it. Future projection is usually comfort, telling the girl that you’re not one of these guys who’s just going to bust a nut in her and disappear into the night (although some girls seek that). On a subconscious, evolutionary level, girls are usually scared of guys who lay them and leave: before reliable birth control and condoms, those guys would saddle her with a baby but no support system during pregnancy or the child’s infancy, which is a crisis for a woman. Today, her conscious mind understands that her IUD will prevent pregnancy, but her subconscious mind is still in play. Girls vary in their need for comfort and tension, but the average girl does need some comfort, and I think early future projection, even on the first date, can help with comfort (I don’t know who coined the term “future projection,” but it wasn’t me).

Girls are incredibly random and flakey, and they often have trouble making plans more than a few days in advance (I just got caught by this fact the other day), which is part of the reason I find it amusing that so many chicks online complain about “f**k boys,” it’s like, you should try meeting chicks and getting them to consistently agree to be somewhere and then actually show up to that place. But I digress. “Random and flakey girls” is likely an adverse selection problem, too, cause chicks who show up when and where they say they’re going to be, get boyfriends, if/when they want them. I’ve listened to flakey girls talk about how hard it is to get a boyfriend, and I’m like, “B***h, you are getting back the same things you put into the world… flakiness and uncertainty and randomness…” but we are always better at seeing other people’s flaws than our own.

I was experimenting with future projection around psychedelics and mdma around the time I was exiting the game proper, and framing those as peak life experiences seemed to generate interest and some anchoring, but I’ve not generated enough data to say, and I’m not likely to in the immediate future. The risk of mentioning psychedelics and mdma, however, is that the average girl is unfamiliar with either, and her impression of the average person interested in such things is like mine, before I learned better, and that degenerates, losers, idiots, and hippies tend to be interested in them… in other words, the same kinds of people who are interested in healing crystals, conspiracy theories, going by names like “Fairy Kamchatka Love,” and going on food stamps because having a job is “working for the man.” So I will ask her about her peak experiences, what constituted them, where they came from, what we’re on earth to do, what life is about, that sort of stuff, and then introduce these things a bit slantwise. It helps that I come off as pretty employed and bourgeois, so psychedelics and mdma are counterprogramming. Chicks like Mr. Contrast, the bad boy who loves his mom and also has a dog, or the buttoned-up office guy who is also a shibari expert, that sort of thing. In response to something The Personality Girl tweeted, I have a novel coming out soon, that covers some of these topics.

I generally will try to frame or imply that most girls’s lives are boring (this is true, so it tends to work, and most girls will admit it, at some point), and sometimes say so directly, and pitch myself as the antidote. Given how much time I like quietly drinking coffee and reading books this is pretty funny… but this line of conversations seems to get good reactions… my theory is that most guys are boring too, so it takes relatively little action to seem fun and exciting by comparison. That, and judicious storytelling. I could happily talk about my professional life and books for hours with chicks, but none want to hear about it, they want a guy who can elicit their own feelings and sensations, and most girls today are functionally illiterate anyway, sadly.

The player mentions that he’s used future projection and it works “very well for girls I want to keep long term, but generally I don’t use it until we’ve been dating a few weeks at least. I’ll think about bringing that in sooner.” He’s done very well with women, so this is a minor optimization. Most guys would love to have had his success. With chicks, having them think about the potential path forward and one day visiting Puerto Rico, or whatever young chicks dream about, seems to help… the great thing about mushrooms, is they’re a trip without having to get on a plane.

Think about the life of a chick worth f**king. The chick knows that she’s thin, she knows that you’re a guy and thus want to f**k her, so what’s separating you from other guys? “The anticipation of future change in circumstances” can be one of those things. Then you’re a guy who, obviously, wants to f**k her, like all straight guys, but you may also change the venues in which you’re f**king her, which girls find important, for whatever female reasons.

When diagnosing problems, it’s good to consider lower probability issues. Another possibility: he’s hit some age-related threshold and is going to find the game harder going forward. This doesn’t seem too likely, because he’s getting them on dates and sleeping with them. Right now, chicks might still be worried about COVID, despite vaccinations being widely available. Nationally, COVID rates are below their April 2020 rates, but there is still much anti-vaccine misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies going around on the Internet, and it’s possible chicks have been exposed to some. I was vaccinated early, and this girl wouldn’t have happened without that being true. Overall, though, I’d expect girls worried about COVID not to come out at all, or not to have sex, rather than f**king and ghosting. It’s also possible this player has simply been on a run of bad luck. Daniel Kahneman, Oliver Sibony, and Cass Sunstein have a book, Noise: A Flaw in Human Judgment, out, and it is about how hard it is to know what we think we know. “Wherever there is judgment, there is noise.” Maybe this player has had a cold streak as far as retention goes, and this will help him remedy it.

This is a thing I found via search for “future projection game,” it’s from back in 2009, and that blog was last updated in 2018. The age of the essay and blog point to the importance of writing your own player blog, not just relying on Twitter or reddit, because those latter mediums are very present-focused, so anything that happens more than 36 hours before the present might as well not exist on those mediums. Search traffic to blog posts, by contrast, can and will exist over years and apparently even decades. Prefer to do things that last over ephemera, if you can.

So that’s my theory and practice. What’s yours? Leave the answer in the comments.

………………………

[1]Girls are often like toddlers in that if a person isn’t directly in front of them, in their field of vision, the person doesn’t exist.

My perspective on investing and financial security is super vanilla

A reader asks my thoughts on financial matters,

Hi RQ. With the GME short squeeze/bubble (whichever term you prefer) making headlines, it made me curious what your perspective is on investing and financial security. Obviously one of the best ways to improve your finances is to not get married, something you have espoused all the time, but I would love to read a whole post about the subject.

Don’t have a unique view or expertise here… a lot of finance advice is pretty wasteful because there are only really two or three ways to really achieve financial freedom:

  1. Spend less.
  2. Earn more.
  3. Invest in assets that earn more than inflation.

That’s it. Numbers 1 and 2 are both hard (if they were easy, we wouldn’t have a $10 billion finance industry trying to sell us on ways to do them).

Re: #1, I rely on Mr Money Mustache for ideas, so start there… he has a nice philosophy too, where he says, “What are you really on this planet to do?” Money is usually a way to achieve other goals, e.g. make friends, create things, etc. The advertising industry is there to convince you the way to have a better human existence is to buy shit (hint: it’s not).

Re: #2, that’s good as well, and you should develop valuable skills, but many high performers spend whatever they make, cause the hedonic treadmill is real, and it’s also not easy to make a lot of money, in most cases (if it were, more guys would do it). A lot of guys who focus on making a lot of money forget why they want to (to live a better life). I’ve not maximized earnings in my life, and have spent more of it than I should have living on the edge, partially due to some choices that, from a finance perspective, haven’t always been the best. Okay and worth it, but I’ve taken a lot of risks with sex.

Re: #3, see John Bogle’s books on index funds. See A Random Walk Down Wall Street, and other finance classics that extol index funds. Efficient markets hypothesis is mostly correct and most people don’t beat the market, sorry. The math behind lower fees and dollar cost averaging is sound, unless you are RenTech or someone like that (extremely rare).
Continue reading “My perspective on investing and financial security is super vanilla”

Recent additions to the sex club guide book

Two recent revisions to the free sex club guide book, both inspired by conversations with guys who read it.

Breeze wrote to me, “Before I read your book, I thought sex clubs to be drunken, bacchanalian parties filled with drugs. Your descriptions make them seem much more like friendly social gatherings where people have expert manners. That actually makes a lot more sense because there needs to be ‘hidden rules’ in place for this sort of ecosystem to be sustainable.” Exactly. Almost no large and public sex clubs allow drunks or people who use drugs to excess, or to the point that they violate other people’s space and desires. Sex clubs only work to the extent that women feel safe at them and to the extent that men know their dates won’t be molested. Take away the safety and the club will swiftly die, for good reason. People who violate the rules will quickly be ostracized (again, for good reason).

Think of rock climbing. Rock climbing is inherently dangerous. The people who do it successfully (and don’t die) are often very conservative about equipment, weather, and training. They make absolutely sure their safety gear is top notch and in good working order. If they see signs the weather is turning, they turn back, even if the summit is close. They train hard to consecutively reach more difficult mountains, glaciers, or rock faces, and no one smart starts with Everest, K2, or even Denali. Something similar can be said for sex parties: the people who do it successfully often plan their evenings and dates. They decide what their limits and rules are for a given night. If they want to change the rules for their next date or club, they can. They check in with their partners. If something seems off about new partners, they disengage. And the people who do sex clubs successfully look for others who share the same ethic. Drink and drugs that impair one’s ability to function properly and to respect others are not going to work with these needs. Manners and etiquette, however, help people structure interactions. Being too mannered is stultifying, but not being mannered enough is rude or confusing. People who are successful in a given situation learn to operate between those poles.

Another, not connected to the one above, occurred in a private chat and Magnum suggested it be stated explicitly.

Let me also pause to say this book throws a lot of data and ideas at newcomers. Pull back from the barrage of new ideas and remember not to overthink the experience, despite me dumping a bunch of data. the sex club and party are supposed to be fun and relaxed. If you get too in your head, too into trying to decipher every moment and motivation, the club won’t be as fun. Your girl wants to have a fun adventure with you. Think back to high school or whenever you first started dating. If you sweated every detail, every moment, every word said to the girl, you were likely too anxious to achieve flow, and the girl could sense your anxiety. Do enough planning and thinking to make the event happen without driving yourself into over-worry. The first time you try anything new, it’s not going to go perfectly. This book distills ten+ years of the game… I have noticed subtleties that won’t always be important. Harness the excitement and ride that. Don’t let fear be the mind killer. 

If you go enough, you’ll become part of the scene and community: sex clubs and sex parties will become a lot more fun when you make friends who also regulars and connect with people on a level beyond a purely sexual level. Some of my friends and acquaintances have found employees, employers, business partners, climbing buddies, gym buddies, book clubs, and all manner of other, non-sexual connections through non-monogamy. For most of us, meeting tons of strangers is stressful, and trust doesn’t occur immediately upon meeting. It takes time to build, for good reason, since a lot of hours of face time and listening are necessary to evaluate other people (I mention later in the book that players have discovered most women, most of the time, need 4 – 10 hours with a man before sex. Sex clubs can shorten that time, but a lot of swapping happens after two hours of socializing and one hour of people f**king the partner they’ve brought, getting us close to the four hours many women want prior to sex). As you develop bonds with other people, the clubs and parties will become social and sexual events, and they’ll be more enjoyable because of those bonds. Like any scene, getting into it will take some time, but ongoing, repeated interactions are more satisfying than one-offs. People who think the sex clubs are purely about sex may be surprised to find that they’re as much about socializing, if you’re doing them correctly. 

They’re both subtle ideas but I think they clarify a bit of the cultural practices you’ll find, along with popular misconceptions. Lots of people may have been turned on and titillated by that Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene, but it has very little to do with how most real orgies happen. A guy could probably try to re-create that Eyes Wide Shut scene… but he’d probably be paying the girls.

In the real world, young and hot women dictate the dating world (contrary to what shrieking feminist harpies claim), and the whole sex club scene is built around the needs and desires of women. Women need more context and comfort for sex, and sex clubs make those things happen by balancing danger/excitement with comfort/rules.

A lot of businesses are starting to shut down or scale back due to COVID-19, giving me too much time to tinker on the book, which won’t be of use to people during the outbreak, since sex clubs will be among the first venues to shutter.

Festivals, parties, etc. and the network’s power

Festivals, concerts, the parties that go with them… I read almost no guys writing about them online. So… let’s talk about what happens, within my limitations, because I don’t have a lot of experience with music festivals and concerts, since they don’t match my personality properly… but I know people who do these things and can infer their power. I think the guys who get laid the most, with the hottest chicks, develop a network or ecosystem of people… the people who go usually have friends or make friends, and I think a lot of them have access to drugs that make them more open to meeting people (including chicks) and to offer access, just by starting with basics like, “What have you seen tonight?” “Are you girls rolling or what?”

Also, exposure is one way to get chicks. If you see a chick at two or three different venues, a logical open is, “Did you see at [place]? I think so.” Even a little bit of familiarity can pry open a closed chick. I have seen guys at parties just go by and say “Hey, what’s up?” to almost everyone they see at a party… then next time they’re like, “Hey did I see you at [venue]?” They’re planting lots of seed. At festivals with thousands of people this works less well but even among festival people I think the same faces will show up again and again.

Most importantly, many girls are in a flirtatious and open frame of mind… outside of their “everyday” mode. Party drugs (ecstasy, molly) can make people open to doing things they might not do otherwise. Some chicks like coke. That seems like less a sex/love drug and more of a… I don’t know what to call it.

The best people seem to have good logistics and things like afterparties planned and ready to go. The guys who do really well here seem to have broad, shallow networks. They meet lots of people (men and women), collect lots of numbers, and then keep in contact with people and facilitate connections. Many guys will have lists of girls and ask “Are you going to yyy venue/party this weekend?” Sometimes the hookup happens there, sometimes on a date after, etc. Lots of girls fall away… but the power of the network is high. Because it’s about the network and a momentum strategy, most guys aren’t going to show up and get laid… they are going to need to learn the world and the world’s rules, and meet some of the people in it. The winners building winning systems.

Drugs… are dangerous. They can be addictive. It is fine to like them but awful to need them. The other problem with drugs, apart from addiction, is that they destroy a lot of time. Many people after molly/ecstasy need like 48 hours or longer to recover. Alcohol is like this too of course. But if you come to rely on these things or do them too much, they will compromise your other goals in terms of fitness, finance, career, etc. I have seen men and women turning 30, 35, whatever, and realizing that their life consists of a series of parties and drug experiences and sex experiences, but… there is not much to show for it.

Most lives need balance. If you are compromising your other goals… you will suffer for it… the quality of your life, family, career, and development will suffer for it. Drugs can be an aid to reaching other people but they can also be very destructive. It’s also easy to get into dangerous credit card debt and have your financial life fall apart.

One thing… I have been at the outskirts of these worlds sometimes… and I can see their power but also their selection bias. The chicks in them are selected for being sex-positive s**ts. So other girls… may become unavailable to you or just less interesting. But some of them… are also good.

Sometimes in real life I’m really attracted to chicks I wouldn’t find appealing online. And that’s true of chicks too. Real life has seduction/feedback/eye contact mechanisms lacking online. We’ve spent our whole evolutionary history evaluating each other in the real world, and like 20 years evaluating each other online… then we are surprised when problems emerge from online.

Guys writing pickup material were almost all social ret**ds for most or all of their lives (a lot still are). They are introverts trying to work with their introversion. Their loner nature limits their social networks. So the things normal guys do for girlfriends and sex, don’t apply to most of the pickup guys. Because of their personalities, they’re blind or semi blind to some types of ecosystems.

These guys doing festivals etc. also have compelling pics, often with pretty girls, and use those to judiciously seed social media accounts. The average guy who spends his days playing video games, watching porn, etc., doesn’t have any of that visual social proof. He literally doesn’t spend enough time with women to understand them properly. His weaknesses are a kind of reverse Matthew Effect. As he gets weaker, he gets weaker, instead of stronger.

Also… if you meet real women… most of them are not like the resentniks online say they are. Yes, there are some bad ones. Yes, many of them will take free value if it’s offered to them (as many guys do). Most of them… are struggling. In ways different from the ways a lot of guys suffer, but not that different. Talk to them enough and you will see their struggle.

There are many good things about pickup seduction and red pill guys. There are also some blindspots, like with any movement/ideology. I want to talk about their positives but I also want to surface some of the blindspots. The world is huge and any person’s place in it tiny. We all mistake our realities for reality.

I’m not 100% sure how to get a guy totally outside the festival/concert/etc. scenes, into them. Just start going? Ask your friends (you have some of them, right?) to go? On this blog I often talk about how to get antisocial loser newbies going (example), but this is one area where I’m not sure how to do that.

One thing to ask is what value you’re bringing. Are you ripped? Do you set up photobooths? Do you have drug connections? Do you make connections among different people? Do you have an afterparty set up and ready to go? Guys should ask these questions and have good answers for them. Chicks bring value just by showing up and being hot. Guys… should try to answer this question. Just being there is okay but I think the better guys go past this.

In-person meetings are just more powerful and immediate than online meetings… online used to work… now everyone is online and it doesn’t. A common theme of my writing is that guys with good sex lives have good social lives. Usually that means minimizing the modern online bullshit of video games, TV, and social media. Top guys develop skills and abilities and social lives that are consistent with getting laid. This is why so much of the seduction conversation is hard… it’s almost never one single thing that gets guys laid… it’s a bunch of things. I have been trying to explain the things I do and I have realized that it’s not one thing, it’s a bundle of things.

Exceptional effort (that is effective) = exceptional results.

Like everything else in life.

Some recent experiences have me thinking about this (I hadn’t been able to capture this facet orf what I do until those experiences). And just observing the world around me. Almost no guy I know seems to have gotten the best sex life just via online. Maybe the ones who are super attractive and don’t need it that much.

Even within game… the best conversations are happening outside public spaces. I didn’t understand that when I started writing this blog, the best insights wouldn’t be posted publicly, they’d come from chats, emails, etc. If you are only living on the public side of the game world, you’re missing out.

Write your player blog. It’s an advertisement, but not in the way you think.

The best and most actionable advice and guidance for guys looking to build their game and become players is private… it’s happening in group chats, emails, etc. It’s not happening in public, where some advice is good, some is bad, and a lot is too general, happening at the wrong “level” of abstraction. The public sphere has a lot of good and useful information in it, particularly for the newest guys who are learning the basics, but each guy has specific challenges, sticking points, etc., and those guys need targeted aid. In addition, each guy has different internal psychological challenges, and those internal challenges are very hard to self-diagnose… if they were easy, we’d not have the entire field of psychology. Almost all of us want to protect our own egos and so turn away from difficult truths… me included. To be the best, however, we need to get feedback on our challenges and to ultimately confront them. Improvement comes from doing what’s uncomfortable. Small group dynamics can’t be replicated by individuals or by large groups.

Write your player blog. It’s an advertisement, but not in the way you think. To get into the deeper levels, you need to show that you’re not an idiot (many guys are idiots or have other underlying issues) and that you’re willing to put in the effort necessary to make progress. Write your player blog and reach out to the guys who don’t seem to be idiots. That’s where the better ideas, peer-to-peer coaching, encouragement, etc. happen. You likely won’t get into the substantive and specific conversations without some demonstration that you’re not an idiot first. The blog is that demonstration. It’s hard for a lunatic to write a sustained story of his actions and progress so far. I’ve read blogs by guys who appear to be nuts and I appreciate those blogs… because they warn me to avoid the guy. I try to be understanding and accepting of individual quirks and proclivities, but I also want to identify the nuts so I can be somewhere they are not.

The blog need not be “unique,” a concern some guys appear to have… write about what you’re doing, what’s happening to you, what you notice with chicks, etc. Even a blog about blowouts is more interesting than what most guys do (nothing, or repeating platitudes, or writing vaguely about why this one special girl isn’t into them, etc.). Most guys don’t get the feedback they need to improve. Don’t overthink the blog, start it with whatever you’ve got. For most, starting is the hard part.

This is a kind of “do as I say, not as I do” moment of advice. I have spent most of my time as a player struggling to learn things on my own instead of accelerating my learning by tapping into the advice/guidance of others. It has worked out okay for me, but I could have done better and probably should have. I also didn’t realize that the material that rises to the level of blogs, or twitter, is only a small amount of that which remains in private chats.

I’m going to be a bit arrogant and say that I am better at this than most guys, yet I am still amazed at the s**t other guys come up with. There are many guys much better at this than I am, too. Some of them are writing publicly… I include many of their blogs in the links panel… and I bet almost all of them will have more specific and detailed advice in private than they do in public. But they, like me, don’t want to waste time on wankers. Most of the guys I have been speaking to in private, I have also been reading in public for months or years.

Consider this story… in college when that happened, I was operating by instinct and didn’t really know what I was doing… I think that is one reason I encourage guys to write online… most guys have no idea what we’re doing… game gives us a framework. To take my work specifically, with sex clubs, almost no one is writing about this topic. Non-mono more generally is covered by a handful of people, including me, and now from Yoylo and Magnum at times… and that’s it… it’s invisible to most players, and misunderstood by others. The guys who stumble into it, are doing it by accident (I have some examples of this but they have been sent to me in private… I don’t disclose private information). We need to turn game from lore into a proper program, a proper course of study. I’ve attempted to make “players doing sex clubs” into a proper program.

THE GAME and MYSTERY METHOD turned seduction from lore into a proper program… and they are still valuable… I am seeking to do the same… I would not have been able to do this without starting the blog… now I hope that others will take up the ideas and extend/apply it. It can be done. The lows are low… but the highs are high.

Good blog writers show themselves to be engaging, learning, and practicing their trade… bad ones reveal themselves as followers and fools. Interacting with chicks a lot generates the best ideas/stories: you see something, you hear something, you report back on it… it’s like trying to be a reporter who goes out and talks to people on the scene versus one who never leaves the office. One person is going to generate a lot of good insights and the other person is not. Bogus players write platitudes about cultivating “inner game” or write about how “not to back down” or give repeated, fifth-hand advice about “body language.” Guys who have something valuable to say write about this one girl they were talking to and how that went, and why they think it worked or didn’t work. I became friends with Red Pill Dad because of his blog, whereas his Twitter feed was too scattered to judge him. I think he judges me on this blog, like he should.

Interacting with chicks generates the best material.

Blog for yourself… but blog for other people… it’s worth doing even if no one reads it. At first, you’ll get almost no traffic and no readers. Over time, readers will emerge and find you organically through search. That is how we build awareness and a movement, and this is how we have a conversation that can’t happen any other way. Reddit has effectively banned this conversation. No one wants to have it on Facebook, under real names, because it’s so dangerous and so contrary to the social order. Feminists have taken over the public discourse about sex, sex roles, dating, etc., by having independent conversations, one whacked-out lunatic at a time. We don’t want to be like whacked-out feminist lunatics, but we do want to inject some reality into the world. I have heard from guys who stumbled onto Red Quest… then used the links in the side bar to see what others are saying/writing/thinking… and it’s changed their lives. You can change someone’s life. This only really happens in blogs. Twitter is almost invisible to search, and it’s very now: what you say on Twitter no longer matters, three days after you say it. Reddit’s Red Pill is now “quarantined” and thus has been de-indexed by search engines. It’s up to all of us, as individuals, to carry the story forward. I’m helping to make this conversation happen, but I’m one man: for it to happen, you need to speak up too. If not you, who?

Overall, “Most guys don’t care much about getting laid, I hypothesize,” and that’s a key reason many guys aren’t telling their story.

Don’t ask for nudes. Don’t be pleased if you get them too soon.

Don’t ask for nudes. Don’t be pleased if you get them too soon. I’ve come to realize getting nudes is only a good sign if they arrive after I’ve f**ked her… then the nudes say, “There’s more of this coming your way and I want to entice you.” If she sends them beforehand I seem to be further away from f**king her (and I might never).

Why? I’m not 100% sure, but some chicks appear to substitute nudes for actual f**king. It’s worse if the guy asks…. or so girls tell me… asking for nudes seems to be a demonstration of lower value (DLV) and hot girls are bombarded with requests from low-value guys. I don’t have a strong theory about why this appears to be true, just observation. Some people now seem to prefer masturbatory stimulation to real live sex. Maybe I’m just old school but that’s not me. I’m also old-school enough to not have spent my adolescence and young adulthood watching hours of HD Internet porn every day. In my formative years, we had pics and some video, sure, but the bulk of sexual activity and stimulation had to occur live and in person.

Dexter speculates

My guess is if a woman she sends an explicit pic to you before f**king she thinks to herself

” shit…I sent this guy a nude so if we meet he’ll be expecting sex right off the bat “

It takes away her plausible deniability.

That’s a fine theory… others may be constructed. Mr. V daygame said (before he deleted his account…RIP),

You forget that woman and men speak a different language. A guy wants pics of tits, a girl doesn’t want pics of dicks. That’s a clear example how men and woman are seduced differently

I only send them if the woman specifically asks for them (some do)… I don’t think a woman has ever asked for pics or videos before she’s had sex with me… after sex, she has a narrative and experiences to connect the visuals to. If she coyly asks I might say, “So you want me to send you nudes.” Again, I’m pretty sure this only ever happens after we’ve f**ked for a while. The story and experiences makes them valuable to her, in a way random guys aren’t. Without the story, they’re just another random guy’s body, and women can see male bodies, even very nice ones, any time they want.

Let me clarify… I am not against nudes at all and have shot thousands of them, almost all of them post-sex, when the woman is very much in my frame and flooded with positive emotions and openness after being f**ked. A lot of women who are happy to pose right after being f**ked will later ask that they be deleted. A note for students of female psychology. Answers as to what this means can be posted in the comments.

A very nice mirrorless camera, like a sony a6300, is now as little as a couple hundred dollars… I remember the first reasonably priced DSLR, the Canon Rebel, that cost $999 or $1199 with lens, I believe, and just 4 or 6 megapixels. We live in a different world.

If she sends you nudes, try to get her on a date with good logistics as soon as possible. If you can’t get her on the date, she’s seeking attention and that’s it, and she’s learned that nudes or near-nudes get attention. Never reinforce bad behavior. I’m not in it for attention or for pictures… I’m in it for the physical pleasure and the psychological, spiritual, and physical connection… that’s where the good stuff is.

Guys who really want to get laid, focus on the things/behaviors/strategies that lead in that direction, to that outcome, and ignore other things. Asking for nudes is not a good step on the route to getting laid. I think a lot of guys reading and chatting online are not truly into getting laid. Getting nudes after you’ve slept with the girl is fine. Still think you’re better off taking them yourself, though. 

How to frame and execute nude photo shoots with women

A player, “Mr. V.,” who knows about my nude photography art habit, asks how I do it… I’ve talked about the principles before, but now for some detail…

  • After sex, I tell her to pose, or to hold, then I grab the camera and start shooting… a real, standalone camera. Sometimes I’ll tell her the light looks good or she looks good right there, that kind of thing that makes her purr. Something to make her think that it’s not random jerk-off material but artistic. Girls have been going for the “You look special just now, spread your legs” line since primitive men first took charcoal to cave walls. It worked for Picasso, it worked for Lucian Freud, it worked well enough for that weird artistic guy with long hair in undergrad art classes, it will work fine for you if you’re high value, have good game, and the girl is in your frame. Sometimes I’ll say something about her being especially attractive. After sex, women are eager to hear they’re still sexy, desirable, and good, and that the guy doesn’t dislike them during post-nut clarity. Snuggling, cuddling, and bonding during this period is important. She needs male attention to come back down to the regular world. And… they are still in a sex-positive mood and receptive to the camera’s eye.
  • From there I just kind of assume the sale and turn on the camera while we’re fucking or beforehand. Or I’ll say, “We should make a sex tape,” then do it. I almost never ask explicitly… very much try to assume the sale. Most women will go along with this in the moment, particularly if they’re already turned on.
  • Because the woman is turned on already, that may be why a lot of chicks will ask the next day for me to delete the photos… she gets caught up in the moment while aroused. The next day, in a cold state, she worries about her reputation, shame, etc. What if it gets out? I am the kind of gentleman who will tell her that I deleted them.
  • The number who refuse pics altogether is small… but out there. It’s all in the game.
  • Sometimes I start out with only her backside (no face) and then move forward. Like with a lot of things, chicks might start out uncomfortable with things but then inch into full comfort. The more invested she is, the more likely she’ll want to serve as your muse and model.
  • Having a true standalone camera produces superior results and also feels different to the woman than a guy with a phone. She feels more like a desired model. Every guy has a phone. Be different.
  • Some chicks will show the results to their friends. This seems like a demonstration of higher value (DHV).
  • If she’s a hard no, let it go. A playful disposition will often help her overcome initial shyness.
  • It is good to learn basic photography.

If she’s a hard “no” accept that. There is “yes,” “maybe” “soft (negotiable) no” and “hard no.” Negotiation is the subject of many books so I won’t write a whole thing about it now. Recognizing the hard no and the soft no is a job of the player.

When a woman sends nudes before sex it’s a bad sign, in my experience. Still not 100% sure why but I have some theories in the other post. I personally haven’t gotten a lot of this but I’ve seen a little. I also don’t request nudes from women, almost ever. I think requesting phone nudes is a demonstration of lower value (DLV) and also most women are inept photographers with inept cameras, poor light, and poor composition.

How she behaves towards other people is one day how she’ll behave towards you

How she behaves towards other people is one day how she’ll behave towards you.

Is she mean to other people?

One day she’s going to be mean to you, probably in the same way she’s mean to others.

Does she like to steal? Does she rationalize stealing?

I’ve run into girls who like taking alcohol from parties, or silverware from restaurants, that kind of thing… they seem proud of it. I haven’t seen the deeper levels of this behavior because the stealing is enough for me to distance myself from them.

Does she somehow always have drama with her friends, bosses, family?

One day she’s going to have drama with you, and by the way the police and courts are going to believe her, not you. Logically you can argue that this is not fair, but it’s true, and you need to protect yourself, not argue about notions of fairness.

Does she spend money poorly or earn money poorly?

One day she’s going to come to you for the money.

Does she tell you stories about kicking out some guy right after sex, for no good reason? Does she tell you stories about being mean to guys who are flirting with her? Those are things that are good to know, because you’re going to be her mean story one day and you should prepare appropriately. If she is proud of being mean to other people, one day she’s going to be proud of being mean to you.

Everyone has moments of untoward behavior, including me. If you somehow made a montage of my worst moments I would look bad. Things are grey, not black and white. But when you are building a model of a woman, or of anyone, take into account the red flags. I have been a low-down dirty dog. I’ve also been very effective and enabled experiences that would otherwise not have happened.

Other people are going to judge you the same way. I have lost people because of my interpersonal proclivities. That’s fine, it’s a cost of being alive and living a full life in my view. I do the things I do and pay the price for them, like we all do. But you should decide who you are and what kinds of things you’ll accept in people and what kinds of things you won’t. If you don’t, you’ll get what you get, and then you’ll bear the costs.