Putting the girl into the friend zone: a kind of mean story from college

Many guys are used to stupidly putting themselves in the friend zone, sometimes even saying that the girl has friend-zoned him when that is not possible without the guy’s consent… but it is also possible to do the reverse, if you have sufficient SMV, and something like this happened to me in college. I made it happen, sort of, without knowing WTF I was doing at the time, like the sorcerer’s apprentice playing with magic. There were a bit more women than men at my school and that led to some good things for me, including meeting this girl, Holly, at a house party, because she was wearing a short skirt and had a nice body while she was dancing. I made out with her but didn’t have good logistics locked down… I should have tried to f**k her in a quiet nook but I didn’t have the escalation skills or daring I do now. I tried to get her back to my place but her friends stopped me/her.

Next night we went to dinner, came back to watch a movie, f**ked like animals instead. I was 20 and Holly was 18/19. The f**king continued on a daily or twice daily level… she was not a great talker or thinker… not then anyway… I’m not sure what we talked about besides school and gossip… but she sure did love to f**k and that was great. Guess we didn’t need a lot more. Short Dancer was a little like this too.

So Holly and I f**ked a lot but were always hard-up for logistics because of our living arrangements, her in a dorm and me in a shared house. So we got creative and f**ked in a lot of places. Holly had two roommates at the time, one a weird girl, maybe asexual or something, the other a friend of Holly’s and part of a larger group of like 10 – 12 girls who hung out together. Holly’s roommate Sarah was like… a 4? Even at age 18/19. Not due to exercise, but perhaps due to horrible diet or just bad genetics… I feel bad for those girls… there is very little they can do to improve their SMV if the genetics are weighted that far against them. Unlike men, they can’t even substitute achievement and income for raw sex appeal.

Sarah was well frustrated by being young and horny and surrounded by college guys… while not being very attractive and not able to even be flirted with by most of the guys. She was also frustrated that she was out of my kill zone and I was busy f**king her sexier roommate as often as possible.

Sarah offered threeways pretty early on, while drunk, and I turned her down using some moronic reason that was not the truth. Sarah would basically sexually harass me, and I’d laugh about it as she felt up my arse or abs. Holly would also laugh, and now I think there was a bit of dominance play between them… Holly knew Sarah was not a threat and never would be. So Sarah would get her little bits of excitement… but not much else. Friend zone, but for girls.

Eventually I did let Sarah give me blowjobs, with Holly in the room, and then f**ked Holly, telling Sarah that I was addicted to and only interested in Holly’s p***y. A kind of lame excuse, but… I was young and stupid? I hadn’t been seeing Holly all that long but had already f**ked her many times when all three of us came back from a party and I let them blindfold me, then I had to guess who was going down on me (couldn’t tell). When I got tired of the game I said that I needed to f**k Holly and told Sarah to masturbate… and then hold my balls when I was getting close to finishing, and as I finished… it was a turn-on for me but in retrospect it must have been kind of humiliating for Sarah and I’m not sure why I did it that time and a number of times after, except for some ego trip. I should have kept clearer boundaries… but when you have the power… it is tempting to use it… that idea explains a lot of random chick behavior… most guys lack the experience to understand it, having never had substantial sexual power.

Holly had a sliver of time between a class of hers and Sarah coming back, when her dorm room was free for sex, but we had to be quick about it to beat Sarah… who knew that after she found us lounging and breathing heavily… which made her hustle back earlier… and then I told her to hold my balls while I finished in her roommate, so we got into this pattern, one that she liked too much. Not sure how many times we did this sort of thing, probably 8 or 10… not all the time but often enough. Most of our friends saw us f**king at one time or another… college is an interesting time to discover exhibitionist tendencies, since a ton of single people are crammed into a small space, making the market super thick and interconnected. And it meant a lot of walking on other people having sex, or having people walk in on you having sex, then pretending to be embarrassed about it, when it was a turn-on.

I should have said no to Sarah altogether. Holly was among the hotter girls in her friend group, and many of the other girls were fine people, just… not very hot.

Among the hotter girls but maybe not the hottest  in the larger group of girls there was another girl, also named Holly, who knew a bit about our adventures and came back from a party with us one night to have a very nice threesome, although my primary Holly was angry about me raw-dogging Holly #2 (who was bent over and going down on Holly 1). This was also one of my early experiences with girls cheating, as Holly 2 had a boyfriend at another school and she claimed she broke up with him the next day. At the time the cheating I saw confused me… I thought girls didn’t really do that? It was one of the early experiences that made me question the feminist educational system and common culture claims. I can be dense so it took me a lot longer than I want to admit to realize how common cheating is among women. Women are smarter about cheating and much quieter about it than men are.

Men want everyone to know they can get p***y, women want no one to know that they deviate from the monogamy society script.

Holly was very high libido, the first woman I can recall with a higher capacity for sex than me. Would get very horny within like 30 seconds of kissing. Fondle her tits? She’d be ready in a minute or two, desperate for it a few minutes after that. Her whole body was an erogenous zone. She was great… just not quite as hot as I’d have liked her to be. Not quite all the way there. But she loved sex, liked me, and was uninhibited about her love of sex, which was very nice… still is very nice. Some women never get over the sex negativity that’s instilled in them by the culture. Some are just really fussy and their fussiness becomes too annoying to deal with.

Holly #2 was a solid 8. Very hot. Holly 1 wasn’t very bi but would kiss and touch other girls… Holly 2 went further. We had 2 – 3 drunken threesomes with her… I was in the weird position of chasing one threesome while trying to push off the other, with Sarah… then I got Holly #2 alone for some very hot sex. Hot for both of us. She was a curiously reserved girl who I never got a handle on. I knew her even less than I knew Holly 1. I think Holly 2 was a bit of princess/primadonna and saw me as socially and sexually proven by Holly 1, plus once I had f**ked her once I didn’t “count” as a new lay and therefore made for a fine person to experiment with while she sought a boyfriend. Or let one find her. I don’t think she expended energy or effort dating… just picked from the guys in front of her. Even in an environment numerically stacked against her I’m sure she did fine.

Unfortunately, Holly #1 knew I wanted to raw dog her and she had a thing against BC, and back then IUDs were either unavailable or not as common as they are now. She was sufficiently drunk to let me a couple times, but then would regret it later that night or the next morning, leading to strife between us. A summer intervened, and we were too far away from each other for easy visits so we had a kind of “don’t ask don’t tell” thing, except that neither of us articulated it… I worked a job that gave me a lots of access to pretty girls, and I don’t remember what she did that summer except that we didn’t talk that much. She wasn’t a great talker or an intellectually interesting girl, but she f**ked great.

Back at school again Holly #1 realized what was up at some point, although nothing dramatic happened like her walking in on Holly #2 and me. She did walk in one day and ask point blank, “Are you f**king Holly #2?” Young-me decided on the brazen defense and was like, “Yeah, of course, you were there for it.” Of course Holly hadn’t agreed to me f**king her friend on the sly and that was it for us, although I tried (and failed) to get her back round for some easy late night hookups. I also didn’t have any of the context for non-monogamy that I do now, so I was a dead dog. I understood very little of what was happening… that is why I try to be compassionate to younger guys… most of the time they are running on instinct and subconscious.

Holly was a clean no-contact girl, made easier by the fact that our friend circles and social lives had pretty much no overlap. She must have gotten to Holly #2 cause she disappeared as well.

Like most young guys, I had no idea what was going on and was stumbling my way forward. At the time I had no true understanding of women and thought I had gotten lucky and stumbled into some nymphomaniacs or something. Now I realize that Holly #1 was just a pretty open and adventurous girl and she was looking to keep me happy, and Holly #2 was kind of similar but also didn’t want to be with her (high school?) boyfriend anymore.

I’d also been flirting with another girl I knew through a school club, so when Holly departed I immediately tried that girl, who came over for beer and a movie and wanted to know about Holly me and when I was like “We broke up,” she practically purred. Getting her to actual sex took a bit more effort and more than one date cause she was one of those “everything but PIV sex” girls, but she was amenable to persuasion over time. She was also the hot one of a group of less attractive friends.

Both Hollies got other boyfriends and I heard almost nothing from either them again. I believe Holly #1 married the guy after me. Both Hollies have kids and live in suburbs now, from what I can tell. I don’t know if Sarah ever got to feel another guy’s balls as he finished inside a different girl, or if that was just one of her crazy college experiences, the kind she won’t tell her future husband about. It’s bad to humiliate people… and I think I did that… somewhat… but in the moment we do things we regret later. Making the forebrain and hindbrain 100% congruent is hard… if not impossible.

“Enrollment Shortfalls Spread to More Colleges”

“Enrollment Shortfalls Spread to More Colleges.” A few of you have noted that I seem pretty “pro-college.” I’m not pro- or anti-college. College is good for guys who have the skills and inclination to succeed, and who go to relatively inexpensive state schools and major in real subjects like computer science, engineering, economics, etc.

College is terrible for unmotivated, low-IQ guys who go because their parents told them to, or because it’s what you’re supposed to do after high school. Colleges are fleecing those kids and their families and they (the colleges) just don’t give a f**k to stop. They should be ashamed of themselves but that’s like saying the guys selling tobacco should be ashamed of themselves… shame rarely beats the profit motive.

Date-onomics (yesterday’s post, you should read it) points out that most non-engineering schools also have more women in them than men. If you are an 18-22 year old guy who wants to get laid, being in college is much better than not being in college, all else being equal.

Most expensive private schools are overpriced and will saddle you with too much debt. Most people who go to schools like Ithaca and Bucknell (named in the article) are just stupid and wasting their money. “Bucknell, where the full cost of attendance is nearly $70,000 a year, had a discount rate of about 31 percent and underspent its financial-aid budget by about $1.2 million.” 69 percent of $70 grant is still $48,000, or two to three times as much as a guy with a brain should be spending.

There is an anti-college brigade in the Red Pill world… many of their points are accurate, as college can leave you deeply in debt with nothing to show for it. College can also be an awesome, life-affirming experience. It really depends on you. Lots of guys are going to college who have no business being there, because they lack the cognitive abilities and the work ethic to make it make sense. But lots of guys should be in college because the college wage premium is real and most people are not self-taught prodigies who will make it on their own without college.

Too many guys appear to spend college doing the minimum necessary to get by and spending all their free time playing video games and watching TV or porn. For them, they might as well not go. Some guys appear to spend college developing themselves and their skills and their ability to meet with and bond with and interact with other people. For them, college is great.

The university mess up and the dorm bicycle

As a university freshman I had a “friend,” we’ll call her Kate, who had a boyfriend at another school out-of-state. She talked about him quite a bit while sober… then would get drunk and become the dorm/school bicycle. If I remember correctly, my roommate had a ride pretty early on.

One night she knocked on my door late at night and came in crying because she’d f**ked some guy who apparently only lasted a minute, then she saw him kissing another girl later that night. She ran up to him, slapped him, and ran away. You may be thinking, “This is just another crazy chick,” but apart from that and some of her sex habits, she seemed pretty normal. She got into bed with me and eventually finished up crying. She was wearing sweatpants and a tank top or something like that.

As the conversation petered out, I was trying to decide if I should try to f**k her or not… and I decided not to. Or I was too scared to. I think I didn’t go for her more because of the residual boyfriend guilt than anything else. So there was this super-available, pretty girl… and I didn’t hit it.

But Kate’s madness was an early reference experience that clued me into the idea that what I saw on society’s surface, was (is) different than what’s actually going on. Knowing what I know today, of course the obvious thing is to bend her over, rail her (protected!), and then send her on her way, or just kick her out and tell her to find another orbiter to cry on, but I was not so advanced then. Thinking of myself, then vs. now, is also why I’m willing to entertain and respond to more newbie questions than some guys will… myself at that age did not have the comprehension that I do now. I also didn’t understand that lots of chicks will cheat and for that reason it’s fine to take shots at married chicks or women with boyfriends. If she is going to cheat, I want to let her cheat with me!

At the end of her first year, Kate transferred to her boyfriend’s college… and then broke up with him! This is one of the many reference experiences that can be distilled into the macro point that chicks are random. (See also.) In my younger life I spent a lot of time and mental energy trying to logic out chicks’s behaviors, and it took an embarrassingly long time to reach the “chicks are random” conclusion that most players eventually find. Trying to be overly analytical about an individual chick is foolish. Across many chicks, you can discern patterns, but a single chick is likely to be a random collection of impulses that she doesn’t understand, let alone you. Often if you try to probe for the logic behind a chick’s actions, you’ll get total nonsense, and if you probe too hard, the chick will just get angry. “Why don’t guys just get it?” she thinks. She knows that what she feels in the moment is reality, so guys should understand that too.

Right after college, Kate moved back to my city and I made the mistake of inviting her to a fairly formal party. We went and I tried to bang her after. She still looked good, although less good than she had at age 18/19, but she wouldn’t let me bang her. I was disappointed and still had some residual of the mindset that since we’d had a fancy “date,” we should f**k at the end. Obviously, experienced players know that’s a stupid mindset. She had yet another boyfriend who was supposed to move to our city in a couple months.

After that night, I stopped contacting her, although she kept contacting me for a couple weeks after. I had learned enough to give up on chicks I wanted to bang, but who weren’t going to bang me. I think she saw me as soft and safe (she was somewhat correct about that at the time) and I didn’t want to be in that frame.

So Kate. At some point we were Facebook friends, and we may have done some chatting on Facebook like 10 years ago, but I just tried to look her up to see what she’s like today and discovered she must have unfriended me. That is okay with me, because I can’t imagine having anything to say to her today, but I remember her because of how f**king puzzled I was as a freshman just learning how chicks really work.