Three major circles: game, sex clubs, mainstream corporate

Talking to Nash the other day, I realized that I have three major circles in my life that don’t intersect much: game, or game awareness is one; sex clubs and open relationships is another; mainstream corporate work is the third. I’m interested in game, as any reader can tell. I’ve written about sex clubs and open relationships in various ways, relating to game. But the sex club and open relationship people, if they speak about game at all, denigrate it in a very mainstream way, as being creepy or predatory. I’ve never talked about or defended game in these venues. Game people online almost never speak or write about conscious non-monogamy, with the exception of Blackdragon, who doesn’t go to clubs, from what I can see. To my way of thinking, there should be greater overlap between game and non-monogamy, but there almost never is. If you can find any other game writers doing group sex, tell me about them.

In the mainstream corporate world, at least my part of it, almost everyone gets married; most people don’t talk too much about their erotic lives. There’s some talk around sex, especially around drink, but it’s pretty button-up, on the surface. Lots of people are vanilla. The less-vanilla people hide it at work. This may be different in places like New York City or L.A., but I think it’s true in most of the United States.

Underneath mainstream corporate work, there’s often an erotic sizzle that happens in certain people and at certain locations, especially regarding alcohol. When I was younger I didn’t realize how much booze really lubricates business. It does. It also lubricates hookups. I don’t advocate for hooking up with direct coworkers, as that invites drama and other problems, but there are many adjacent opportunities, as well as opportunities with former coworkers. Most cities also have business meetups and general conferences… they’re not just about business. And business travel often excites people out of their pattern and into a tryst. For a player, the problem is that there just aren’t that many attractive businesswomen. There are some, especially on the younger side, but relatively few of my lays and lovers have come from this area.

Instead, they’ve typically come from online or in-person meetings. Many, probably the majority, have come from sex clubs or parties, but that’s because sex club one-offs are common. That environment already screens for high-libido, high-openness, experimental, and horny chicks. To me, it’s “easy mode.” It still requires some game and more social deftness than a typical guy may assume, but I think it’s easy and fun. The intersection of those appeals to me. Some guys get into game not for the lays but for the challenge. I understand that, but if I could just bang a bunch of hot chicks without game, I would do that.

(That’s like saying, “If someone dropped ten million dollars in my bank account, I’d be cool with it.” I might be cool with it, but except for 100 trust fund kids, that’s not how the world works.)

I got into the sex club thing in my late 20s. I’d met this chick who was around my age, and she got into them because conventional relationships basically didn’t work for her because she wanted (maybe still wants) too much sex.

Sounds like a weird problem, right? Only if you’ve never experienced these chicks. Very high-libido chicks exist. I know because I’ve met them, and Libido Girl was one. Sometimes they get a medical tag like “Persistent genital arousal disorder (PGAD)” or labeled as sex addicts. I don’t know, maybe for some of them their sexual desires mess up their lives. For a lot of them, though, I think it’s biological variation at work. For whatever reason they want serious, hard fucking at least once and preferably twice a day. Libido Girl was like that.

If you’re a basic guy you might be thinking, “Great, I’d love it!” You do, in theory, at first. A very high libido woman will often not be able to find men who can keep up with her. So her relationships suffer and maybe her whole life suffers. Word may get around her social circle that she’s a slut, and other girls better keep their boyfriends away from her. All very unpleasant things. She may be needy with her monogamous boyfriend, who can’t get hard again fast enough.

If these kind of women can separate sex from emotion (not all women can, and that’s one reason I’m willing to do more long game than some game guys suggest), they’re often well-suited to being escorts or sex workers.

So what’s a girl with a super-high libido to do? She can try to find a guy to match her. Most guys, confronted with a wildly sexual woman, will exhaust themselves eventually. Libido Girl had gone through the up-and-down monogamy cycle a bunch of times, until she figured out that she wasn’t meant to be monogamous. She found out about consensual non-monogamy and group sex and began going to clubs. I don’t remember how she learned. She read something or a guy told her. Quickly she got involved in the scene and then began bringing other guys into it. She’d been going for about two years when I met her.

We started hooking up, and within a week or two she asked if I wanted to go to her friends’ sex party. She was a very popular guest because she was pretty (a low 7 I’d say, but good personality) and feral. Hot, low-drama, high-libido women are always welcomed. In advance she’d told me that it would be an intense experience. She was right. The party was held in someone’s apartment, and something like 14 – 16 people were there. I met most of them at the beginning. It started off like a regular party. Drinks, chitchat, hanging around. After a couple drinks most of the chicks took off their dresses or fancy clothes. They started kissing each other or their partners.

Then, pretty much everyone started fucking. It was a little bit like visting a foreign country, because everyone was just doing their thing and so it seemed pretty normal, except for the obvious. When everyone around you does one thing, it’s just the thing everyone does, and you kind of start to do it too. Libido Girl and I had sex; I couldn’t believe all the action going on around me. I understood that some people did such things, but even then I was not fully aware how a lot of chicks will behave, sexually. Then Libido Girl had sex with another girl (who she knew well), and I kind of assisted, for lack of a better term. We took a break, and then I was basically set up with this very hot chick who was part of a couple Libido Girl knew already. Libido Girl was smart, so she watched as the other girl and I fucked, then after I was fully engaged she had sex with the guy, so that I was too busy to get jealous.

It was an incredible experience. The chick I got set up with was gorgeous. I imagine that first introductions to non-monogamy and group sex are important, and Libido Girl managed mine beautifully. Libido Girl and I went to a club a week or two after and I was pretty much hooked. The club wasn’t as good as the party, but we got to meet a few cool people. Typical sex club people are in a long-term relationship, often married, and bored with each other. Sometimes the woman is quite hot, but the guy has banged her so many times that he’s indifferent to her beauty. Many times, probably most of the time, she is not hot, typically due to being overweight or too old.

Libido Girl wasn’t a real girlfriend, but she was courteous and straightforward about her desires and expectations… like a lot of girls are not. She wasn’t ever going to be a real girlfriend in a conventional sense, but eventually I began dating other women and Libido Girl was fine with it. Chicks like Libido Girl terrify normal women, because Libido Girls don’t care very much about monogamy. Libido Girl had been the source of a bunch of cheating, from her own admission, and I believe her. She had a fairly regular job, and it didn’t seem like sex totally ruled her life, but she was not like other chicks and knew it. Girls like her also like online dating, because they can get sex without affecting their social reputations.

I should clarify that I didn’t know the details about Libido Girl from the beginning. I learned them in bits and pieces over several months, or more realistically about a year. I wasn’t looking for anything serious at the time, having gotten out of a serious thing not too long before. She also figured out that I’m curious, open to different kinds of experience, and non-judgmental. If chicks think a guy won’t judge them, they’ll say a lot of things they’ll keep quiet around most guys. So Libido Girl’s cornerstone drives and life story came out, just not the way I’ve presented it. The way I’ve told her story is less flattering and, to most people, extremely threatening. She introduces sexual chaos to a world where the ideological and intellectual default is still monogamy.

I think I got into sex parties as a solution to a problem, or set of problems. The problem is sleeping with lots of different women and doing so somewhat efficiently. Most chicks who start as hookups will eventually ask, “Where is this going?” Usually that’s the beginning of the end. I’m not sure I will ever be fully monogamous again. Switching a woman’s from thinking she wants monogamy to thinking she doesn’t is hard for many chicks but can be done. Some will reject it. Many will go along with it for as long as the guy is there to lead them.

Libido Girl was unusual but not completely unusual in her non-monogamy preferences. Very high libido chicks are often poorly suited to normal relationships. So if they think about their life situation, non-monogamy can be the answer, because then they can sleep with a couple different guys and girls and still have their needs satisfied.

They just have to find the right guy or guys. Lots of guys like open relationships in theory but don’t like them in practice. Libido Girl had to break up with a lot of guys who became emotionally connected to her and wanted her to be monogamous. She’d learned not to accept monogamy, because monogamy would either break her due to her sex drive or she’d cheat on the guy.

The average chick at a sex club is not like Libido Girl. But there is a minority of chicks like her who go. You wouldn’t know her proclivities if you met her at a meeting or over coffee. She doesn’t dress much more provocatively than typical chicks. She just fucks more, more often, longer, and sooner than most chicks. If she goes on a first date with someone she likes, she’s going to fuck him (or her). She’s highly congruent in her psychology, which as all players know is not true of all chicks.

Typical people get into group sex experiments because friends bring them or they read something.

Libido Girl and I kept seeing each other casually until she moved for work. She’s gotten fat over time, like so many people, so she’s no longer of sexual interest to me. Like I wrote here, I’d guess that half to three quarters of women are up for some form of group sex. Many, practically all, women have threesome fantasies of some kind. A guy who can fulfill her fantasies is a guy who’ll keep her coming back.

These are things I can’t talk about with work friends. Sometimes I look at people and wonder how many of them are doing the same things I am, but they can’t talk about it either.

At work, I’m pretty weird by corporate standards. I’m totally uninterested in things that consume others: houses, cars, TVs, boats, “vacation” houses, most forms of purchasable consumption. Sometimes I just want to ask, “Why do you buy things?” and “Why do you exist?” But that would go from pretty weird to unacceptably bizarre. I love to workout, eat well, read. Inexpensive activities. And of course sex, a hobby that I can’t share with others on the job. Too unruly, too dangerous, too disruptive.

Friends who see my place say I basically “live like a college student,” like it’s an insult. I’m like, “What’s the point of spending all that money on furniture and bullshit?” Seriously, life is about the quality of your relationships and connections to other people. Sex is the ultimate pleasure and also creates relationships. Almost no one cares about your expensive couch or shitty art. Is it clean and functional? Then it’s good enough. The vast consumer marketing machine ingests us all. Few can resist. Even I don’t resist that well. We can all do better, as human beings.

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Did it

Despite the “Story update on the 20-year-old,” we did get together late last night, which caused suffering today but was worth it. I’ve also remembered something I discovered a long time ago: the greater the logistical hassles, the more my interest declines in the girl. The older I get, the greater this effect.

Sometimes, however, this can have a paradoxical effect. I lose interest, and the girl gets more interested because she senses my uninterest. More often, I lose interest and so does she. That’s probably why I have so many long and pretty cold leads, and why sudden re-ignitions or techniques like this can work.

Speaking of the 20-year-old, there will likely be one or two days of overlap between her getting back and me leaving. No idea whether that will work. I’m still into her, but flakey or just logistically complicated girls turn me off over time.

I’m beat, but there are probably a handful of you curious about the (mostly surprise) outcome. I also have two pretty good pieces coming along, based on replies to comments.

Still not sure I’m actually going to see this one again.

“Glamourising the ‘Childfree Life’ Ignores Reality for Most Childless Women”

Glamourising the ‘Childfree Life’ Ignores Reality for Most Childless Women” is obvious to me and to most observers. Most women who deny this are probably lying to themselves too.

A couple years ago I went out with a woman I knew from high school, and time had not been kind to her. I thought it was more a “old time’s sake” thing, and I think she thought it was something else. In high school, I think she thought she was higher status than me, and when we saw each other I was definitely higher status than her, and dating a woman much younger than me. At some point I did something similar to what I said in, “How to drop a bomb on a group conservation.”

It’s not actually very smart or socially deft to say that sort of thing, because in many cases it does nothing more than alienate listeners. But if it’s said with a cheeky grin and an apologetic shrug of the shoulders, it can be an incredible troll. It’s also mean, when we should try to be magnanimous to those who have screwed up and know it.

There was no second meet up and as far as I know she’s still single and childless. Those women have fucked up their lives, typically irredeemably, and yet feminism ensures that we cannot have an honest, society-wide conversation about this issue.

 

“Failing at Trying to Have an Affair” with Ashley Madison

Another day, another great Red Pill piece written by a woman. The most interesting thing about this woman’s affair is her premeditation. Most women who have affairs don’t consciously decide to do it, I think. It “just happens” when they get in the right situation. So this woman is a little different. In the intro, the writer says:

a single male friend of mine mentioned that his efforts at finding a long-term relationship were being hamstrung by the fact that an increasing number of the women he met on dating apps were already married. Some were polyamorous, some in open marriages, but they all seemed to be seeking out extramarital relationship with a kind of freedom and shamelessness that wouldn’t have been possible until recently.

Translation: don’t get married. Be the guy she cheats with, not the guy she cheats on. Women are allegedly refusing to be married “in the usual way.” As guys, we can’t control women, but we can let them get what they want. So let’s do that. After all, this storyteller says she was tired of being married and “I just wanted to do whatever I wanted.” Conventionally, marriage is about controlling your libidinous urges. Not anymore.

When women want new relationships they change: “So I went on a diet. I bought some new clothes. And then I set up a profile on Ashley Madison.” She wasn’t willing to work at being thin and pretty for her husband, but she was for the new guy.

The new guy and other guys are too timid to pull the trigger properly. They haven’t done game.

Another article, “The Joys of the Part-Time Long-Distance Relationship,” doesn’t say as much, but it’s really about how the woman in the relationship is free to get some strange dick while she’s traveling, thus rejuvenating herself or whatever.

For a man the lessons are obvious: don’t get married. Be careful about cohabitating, especially in small urban spaces. Expecting monogamy in today’s sexual climate is unreasonable, so you had better think about alternate arrangements.

“I’ve never had a boyfriend before”

Went out with a 22-year-old girl who I met at a private sex party. When I met her at the party she was on molly, wildly fun, and incredible to be around. On the date she seemed half dead, apparently due to drinking while watching some sports game at a bar the night before.

Among other things, she doesn’t seem to have a real job, that I can discern, and she says that she moves a lot because she goes “where the wind takes me.” The most intersting thing she said, though, is that “I’ve never had a boyfriend before.” I told her I think that’s very sad (and I do think it’s sad). But it’s also pretty obvious why she hasn’t. She’s like a walking, big-titted string of millennial Red Pill cliches.

At the party where we met we made out, I fondled her quite a bit, and if I’d not been out of ammo I think we would’ve fucked. On the date it was like we were strangers. I’ve written that women are totally capricious because they can be, but it’s rarely thrust in my face as obviously as it was with this chick.

I learned a long time ago that there is no point in getting angry with chicks for their bad behavior. At best they stammer an apology and run away. It’s still not inconceivable that I’ll bang her at some point. God that chick has a great body. And she is stupid in ways she doesn’t even understand. Before I started reading Red Pill and evolutionary biology material, I don’t think I fully understood chicks like her.

Not much of a field report because very little of interest happened, but many aren’t.

Women don’t make emotional contracts

This post began as a reply to Nash’s comment, but it got so long that I decided to turn it into a post. It’s not about actionable game tips, so you might not find it very useful.

But it was in that context that I heard myself say, ‘women don’t make emotional “contracts.”‘ I like that line. I think it’s true.

It’s absolutely true that women don’t make emotional contracts. If they will enter such a contract, but they won’t keep it, and apart from the withdrawal of attention there is no downside to her. The non-monogamy community, online and off, is endlessly discussing how so-and-so broke their rules. It’s exhausting and pointless. Humans in general and especially women also tend to emotionally bond to people they’re fucking. That’s just how the system works. It can’t be logicked away. The downside of non-monogamy is that she might bond to another guy. Of course, at the same time other women might bond to me, and I think that is happening right now with someone I met at a party.

I’ve written about this before, but most women won’t stay in long-term, undefined relationships with guys. Pretty much all players know that women will initiate the “what are we?” talk three to eighteen months into an uncommitted relationship. It’s possible to keep her on the line for much longer, but most normal women want a family eventually. They have a biological schedule and think they want to lockdown a guy to have kids with (many are also conflicted, as evolutionary biology teaches us).  They also think they want commitment, and they do until they get bored and suffocated by seeing the same guy every day for years on end.

Non-monogamy can help keep the woman on the line while simultaneously allowing a guy to continue in the game. And if she sees the guy drawing in women who are more attractive than she is, she will get competitive and the sex will stay pretty hot. No one will get complacent because no one can.

In reality, of course, in modern marriages a guy shouldn’t get complacent because she may leave him at any time and take half his assets, child support, and the kids, and the entire state will step on his neck if he objects. Why guys agree to this kind of arrangement, I have no idea. Social pressure and expectation, I guess. I barely dodged it myself.

It appears that I’ve set off on a ramble, so let me say that I’m thinking about things more from a longer-term perspective for guys who already have okay game and who are age 30+, and guys who are younger can ignore this. Before age 30 it’s mostly about getting laid. After, a guy should be thinking, at least a little bit, about the long term. The current Western model and marriage contract do not work. They generate hate, misery, envy, and contempt. They’re so broken that the Red Pill has emerged from them.

But! A big but: most people and most guys still want something “more” than tons of random hookups. Most people will eventually want to have kids, too. I think most people age 50+ don’t get as much satisfaction from sex and get more of their satisfaction from family and community. But if you devote your entire life to chasing sex, you likely won’t build the things that matter in the second half of your life.

(Guys in their 20s can mostly ignore the above paragraph and focus on building their game, their knowledge, and their business lives. A guy without game and options basically cannot build an effective longer-term relationship today, so he has to have that first. Entering a long-term relationship without total confidence that the guy can easily find another woman is tantamount to death.)

For guys, over the long term, I think the future regarding kids is closer to something like co-parenting. Lots of guys read this and think it’s just more feminist bullshit. It can be used that way, especially in states with awful “child” support laws that are really woman-support laws. But co-parenting resolves a lot of the conflicts I’ve enumerated. The state isn’t involved through parent contracts. The two adults can maintain separate domiciles as necessary. Both should still contribute to the child. DNA testing is mandatory instead of optional. If and when sexual desire wanes, one doesn’t have to lie and look at the same person every morning for the rest of one’s life. Yet both parents have to commit to some of the crappy and boring parts of raising kids.

Instead of two people promising to erotically love each other forever, then coming to hate each other and getting into vicious, expensive legal battles, two people agree to do what’s right for the kid and agree to make sure the kid has both masculine and feminine influences in their life.

I don’t think co-parenting is perfect either, and I have basically evolved into co-parenting. My situation is far better than the situations of the many guys I know who married, let themselves go, and then divorced.

“If a man should assume there is NO SUCH THING as an emotional contract with a women… why would you strap yourself down to a financial one?? I know why men do it (bluepill thinking… but mostly… lack of options).”

Rollo is right about this: women want it all: complete, total access to a man’s finances and the complete to have sex with whoever she wants to, whenever she wants to. More guys are learning to say no to this raw deal, I hope. I have another post about the book Out of Eden: The Surprising Consequences of Polygamy, because it is also about what a society that is really committed to female monogamy and reducing hypergamy looks like.

What I do when she sends nudes

This is a pretty new problem, because way back in the day guys who wanted nudes had to shoot them on film cameras and have a method to develop the film. Then digital came along and guys who wanted nudes still had to shoot them themselves, usually with an early DSLR like the first Canon Rebel, or with a point & shoot. Now smartphones are ubiquitous and chicks send nudes or partial nudes of their own volition and without prompting.

In my view requesting nudes from women is usually a demonstration of lower value and thus should be avoided; if you want nudes, get a camera and shoot them yourself after you’ve slept with her.

But when she sends you unsolicited nudes, what do you do? I’m still not 100% sure, but I’ve begun saying, “Pretty,” or “cool” or a similar one-word answer, and then, often, returning an erotic but not explicit pic of me with another chick. A front view of the chick, with me behind her, covering her nipples with my hands. A side view of me going down on a chick. That kind of thing.

Chicks will go one of two ways: some will be turned on and may accelerate the meeting or next meeting, and some will start asking questions about the other girl, and I’ll say, “Let’s discuss in person and meet at this bar and this time.”

The more sexually forward the chick is, the better this works, I think. Chicks who want monogamy now, I think this works worse on. It can be a higher risk move than ignoring or saying very little to the chick. A little bit like my Snapchat in game move. It’s a perfect move with chicks who are already into non-monogamy and group sex.

I don’t include faces, but it’s pretty clear that the pics I send are from me. This is a light form of attempting to make the other girl jealous or showing a hard-to-fake signal that other chicks desire me. Chicks most want guys other chicks want. I said in “Evolutionary biology underlies game” that most chicks have no idea what they want and are their desires are often incoherent.  Implicitly saying, “If you don’t get on this ride, another girl is going to, soon,” makes her want to get on the ride.

I usually get the pics of me through screen grabs from sex tapes. VLC has a screen grab feature that will export the exact frame. Today, 4K video is widely available and that makes getting the right pic easy.

There also seems to be an uptick in the number of chicks who send nudes as a form of teasing and attention-getting but who have no desire to meet up or have real life wetsex. It’s hard to separate out the chicks who tease-but-want-it from the chicks who just want attention. At some point if a chick won’t meet or won’t come home with me I stop contacting her or responding to her messages, and that will usually shake out the flakes from the chicks who want it.

Today, I see nudes as being in practice part of one’s romantic portfolio, the same way you should have a professional portfolio demonstrating your work products. Be prepared and good things will come. I hadn’t explicitly realized that I’m doing this kind of romantic preparation till earlier this week, but once I did I also realized that most guys are probably doing this sort of thing on the fly, when they should be doing it as part of a larger strategy. Unless they’re already swimming in quim, in which case they don’t need strategy.