Lots of swings and lots of misses (FR)

[This happened before coronavirus shut the world down, but I didn’t put up the story right away.] 

Went to a party without a date… but I went with friends who vouched for me and functioned as dates. They brought extra girls (who weren’t appealing to me, physically or intellectually/psychologically, but that happens). The girls took some drug that made them very friendly.

I knew a few girls at the party, including this one (again)… and she is now ROUGH. When I first started seeing her I’d have given her an 8… by the time I wrote about cutting her loose she was more like a low 8/high 7 and now she is like a 6… not fat, exactly, but weird rolls of stomach fat and fat legs. I saw some girl going down on her and thought “She is only 26 and looks awful.” Her life is a trainwreck too, and the fall over a short period of time is a testament to the destructive power of drugs, even “legal” drugs (of the wrong kind and taken too frequently). I feel bad for her, because all of her relationships, whether with friends, lovers, roommates, etc., have been severed, often abruptly and in a difficult way, by her behavior… and she doesn’t appear to understand why. I pity her. Drugs and other problems are ruining her life and career. I may check in and see if she’s trying to get off them.

Met a couple who didn’t know each other well and had met recently… a couple who don’t know each other well and aren’t officially dating means that the girl may be up for grabs (something that I don’t think I thought to include in the book). The girl was somewhere between a high 6 and mid 7 but I liked her vibe… she was bouncing with excitement and pleasure when I met her, and enthusiasm is infectious, like coronavirus, but less dangerous. She’s also a kinky slut, and much later I picked up her contact details, and her dates’s.

Did a ton of spanking & flogging. Few people there appeared to know what they were doing with BDSM and the fact that I’ve developed those skills seemed to set me apart. Lots of audience, which started with me spanking my friend. Didn’t seem like anyone else brought floggers.

Closest shot on goal was a girl, Alyssa, who I spanked and who LIKED pain. I spanked another girl who was super cute, with a newbie boyfriend. Great to spank but said she has high pain tolerance (she doesn’t). Then her boyfriend wanted to be spanked, for some reason, to know what it was like? Not my favorite thing to do but it seemed like a moment when I ought to just go for it, so I did, and explained to him what I was doing, what I think about, how I check in with the girl, etc. So it was like half spanking, half tutorial. Couldn’t tell if I was getting bi vibes off him… I hope not. But the main way people learn this stuff is peer to peer, so I did some education? Don’t fully know how to interpret this, so the question marks.

Alyssa… I really worked over her ass and thighs. Long warm-up. Lots of flogging, eventually leading to full-on backhand, like a tennis player’s backstroke, with a paddle. The buildup allowed her to access that part of her. Most guys rush girls too much at every level, from the first kiss to the foreplay to the f**king, when girls want guys to move like 50% slower. Not so slow as to be languid, but more deliberately than most guys go. Be assertive enough for her to know your desire but understand chicks need more time than most guys give them. Alyssa did a lot of kind of annoying topping from the bottom, but I didn’t know her and so didn’t call her out on it. Spent a long time working her over, and interleaving touching gently and some kissing. Very passionate kissing. After, I asked her for sex and she said no but that she wanted to see me later. Later, we went to another area and talked, then made out some. I moved her around some, which she seemed to like, and set her up to grind. It was erotic, feeling her hips move and the sharp intakes of breath as she got going. I got about half hard, which she could feel, then she backed off again, saying she wasn’t into sex that night.

Some more negotiations followed and Alyssa didn’t want to f**k, Although she didn’t say it, she knew exactly what I was trying to do by heating her up, and she didn’t want to do it and only wanted to make out. She negged me by saying that I seem “goal oriented.” I laughed… she’s not wrong. Didn’t have a great response, honestly, because agreeing made me seem a little slimy, and the opposite wasn’t true and claiming not to be isn’t consisten with what she’d seen of my personality and skills. She wanted to know if I was going to stay and I was just like, “I’m tired and heading home.” Maybe could have played last cock standing but I believe the gold seam was played out and produced no nuggets, just a few flakes. With Alyssa I think she knew what was up, what her strict limits were for whatever reason, and that was that. She lives out of town, so I doubt I’ll see her again. Will follow up today but I’m not optimistic. I told this story to one player who said

There’s a weird negative vibe on chicks who are a “no” to f**king. It’s different from LMR. It’s like you can feel their mindset is set to No.

I lose interest pretty quickly if she is not at least open to f**king.

Part of the annoyance is when you sense on a limbic level that the purpose of her not f**king is due to a power dynamic and not because she is not ready/in the mood. It’s a huge turnoff.

I would offer a counter take on this… Alyssa wasn’t open last night but might be in the future. She was a forebrain override girl, one who liked that I had met a lot of people, spanked a lot of chicks, and demonstrated social competence and BDSM competence. There weren’t a lot of unoccupied cute girls. Transparently losing interest too fast is a mistake… it gives bad vibes to the girl and also f**ks up future events. I have her # and will ping her. A few weeks or months from now it could happen. She’s a good person to invite to random events when I don’t have anything else going on.

It’s bad to get the reputation as the guy who chases girls and then does a 180 when they won’t f**k right away. If the player abruptly pulls away once or twice, okay, lack of chemistry but it’s an undesirable reputation. There’s always the short play, in the moment, and the longer play, over time and over reputation. The discipline to make the longer play will lead to greater success, I think.

At the end, talked to a couple, the guy less hot than the girl, and the girl just gorgeous. Huge breasts on a very small and petite frame. I would’ve loved to f**k her. They’re relatively new to the world, so I took some contact info. Unlikely to go anywhere but some seeds have been planted. She’s the sort of girl who might look “okay” in street clothes and then turn out to be stunning naked.

Fair # of mismatched partners with girls much hotter than the guys.

Kinda miss the girl from the last big party, who I saw again once and has gone silent. Beautiful sexual chemistry with her, more than with anyone since Short Dancer, probably. Such quick sexual chemistry. Am I the same for her, or am I just some guy she f**ked? I’ll ping again in another week but going anywhere with her is doubtful. Relationships end, so I hope I’m top of mind when/if hers does.

The last couple events I have attended without a direct date, and that is doing this on hard mode. Harder mode anyway. Bringing a date leads to a higher probability of success.

I mean to write less but the inner voice speaks too loudly.

Learning

* Chat with people.

* Demonstrate competence. I learned how to do BDSM from a combination of online tutorials and guides and in-person. If you’re at an event and see someone who is doing it well, watch what they do and try to imitate it. Even ask them how they learned or what they were thinking about doing (after they’re done… never interrupt. Watch but don’t interrupt.)

* Play the long game.

The game’s endgame and picking up a girl at a private party

Got an invite to a huge private sex party… remember how I wrote, “game can be thought of a little bit like chess in that for good players the first 5 – 10 moves are memorized calls and responses and gamed out… the interesting stuff happens midgame.”? This is an endgame story, making it less valuable than mid-game stories, but I wrote most of it for a private group, so I figured I’d tell the rest…

At the party, I talked to a gorgeous, short girl who used to be a high-end escort and probably had income that put her in the 99%… not a great conversationalist or was on drugs… some other things about her stood out but are too private to share… asked for kiss when she left, and she said “maybe later.” In normal dating asking for the kiss is a bad move, but in this environment it’s the way to go.

Did an MFM with a couple I know… read Yoylo for an MFM example story… I have also laid out a threesome bluepint… this one happened because I’ve known them both for years… she is a solid 7… he is probably a male 8… he finds it hard to find the right women, and they are put together well. He’s had some of mine before, so it’s all good… I have spoken many times about reciprocity and balanced equation, and our equations are well-balanced. There is not a “game” story here… or if there is, it is buried in the years… we are all casual friends who spent some time catching up, then had a theeway. Very intense one, too. Whatever “game” was involved happened long ago.

Much later, I was about to leave and crash, but I saw this girl and had to say hi to her… so I got to chatting with this chick and she had great vibes, nice but not astonishing face, and just the best body. 25 or so… we chatted for a while and she noticed my paddle… asked if I would spank her… of course, baby… we found our way to a more private back area, away from the crowds, and she was so cute (great, top level super feminine energy) and responsive. Some spanking/paddling, light choking/hair pulling… things moved fast and she was broadcasting horniness… so I kept going forward, checking in with her at appropriate places… and wow. I didn’t think I could rise to the occasion but did it (sometimes verbalizing “I’m not sure I can have sex again” helps me relax into it), and sex with her was amazing… amazingly fun. Time between “Hi” and f**king was… 20 minutes? 30 minutes? I don’t know. It was almost too fast, even for me… I think she’d been marinating in the environment and socializing for a long time and yet hadn’t been approached, or properly approached (later I found out that she knew a guy there, a friend of friend, who had been chasing her, but she wasn’t into him). Or, right girl, right time? I want to give her an 8 due to her body just being packed in all the right ways and feeling fantastic but probably a high 7. Everything about her felt and seemed right. Instant chemistry is rare. She seemed almost grateful to have me inside her, which is a turn-on. Hope she comes out… we talked about that, but she might be an “in the moment” girl who disappears later. I hope not.

Like I said, it happened almost too fast… I wanted more time to play with her body, to get to know her, but her sex temperature was so high that I felt I couldn’t not. We talked about some logistical things… “feminine energy” isn’t discussed as much as it should be. Hers was off the charts. She was like crack. Other girls should take lessons in feminine energy and sounds from her. F**king her was great. She reminded me of Short Dancer, and it has been years since I have felt that way.

Did not see the former sex worker 9 again.

I’m also a re/tard in some ways… my stated goals are different than what I pursued last night, so there’s that.

I wasn’t going to turn this into a blog post at first, cause I don’t think there’s anything new to learn from it… but then I realized that that is the lesson… I’ve been building ecosystem/connections for many years, and staying in pretty good shape, and it came together. Maybe I could point out that even s**ts often want to know the guy/guys they’re sleeping with… more often than not they do… the first woman came around not because I was a random but because I wasn’t. Overall I think I’ve contributed more value to the community than I’ve taken from it, and that was reflected in the private sex party. It was reflected in the invite itself. It was reflected in the people I knew there. It was reflected in the fact that I knew how to be once I was there, and knew where to flirt and where not to. Where to push forward and where to hang back. The interesting things happen in the midgame… but this was the end game… the value had already been built. The reputation was in place. The beautiful 8 hadn’t been approached, or properly approached, and she was ready, so I went for it… I was wandering through the orchard and spotted what might be a ripe fruit… I climbed up… checked it out… turned out to be ripe… and it was good. I had the skills she wanted, and she… well, she had what I wanted. The fruits of the network.

Tried not to drink too much and succeeded… exhausted the next day… I feel a little too old for this shit in some ways to be honest. I still feel kinda off track… my forebrain and hindbrain continue to disagree… am I turning into a chick or something? Hope not.

This FR is late game…. it’s about the building of value and discovery and connections over many years. Very few guys can just walk into something like this… you have to know the players involved. The mid-game for this kind of thing can be read in detail here… if your version of the book is more than six months old, get the latest one, because I’ve been updating it in response to other guys’s questions and observations… thanks to other guys who have sent me their learning and their field reports… they have made the book better/stronger than it would have been otherwise. FRs that deal only with the first couple interactions with a woman often aren’t interesting because they’re pretty well gamed out. FRs that cover end game, like this one, often aren’t interesting because there’s not a lot of value building or practice taking place… the value building took place in the past. I’d learned to be in the right place at the right time with the right attitudes and that was rewarded. This is a study about reaping wheat, not about growing it (much harder to grow than to reap, or to eat the food made from the wheat). I was surprised by the girl at the end and the speed with which it happened. But the conditions for that had been created over many years. I’ve had this happen before… but this girl was just f**kin hot, and she’s relatively to new to the scene/community. In some ways I got lucky, but you know how the harder you work, the luckier you seem to get? It’s like that.

Magnum has different FMF report too.

“GOD it feels so good to get picked up.”

“The hilarious part was that after we f**ked, she says: ‘GOD it feels so good to get picked up.’

I have gotten this kind of response too. Sometimes chicks will yield horrible blowouts or just look at you like you’re a bug, but more often the responses will be positive, and sometimes they will be ecstatic, like this chick. Remember that most chicks are passive and will not do much but try to look good and react to the man’s actions.

Even many girls in relationships will be flattered when you hit on them. Most guys today are glued to their phones and have become social idiots. Be different.

Home Friend, again, and the cycle guys choose

(This one happened a few months ago, so it’s far out of date… wrote it at the time and then forgot to post.)

Home Friend. Remember her? Barely? Me too. She swung back around for a c**k ride, which seems to be happening every couple months… I wouldn’t mind her being more reliable but I do like her naked and bent over for me, so what can I say? Except that I am not doing the things I keep saying I need to do.

This time I spent some time talking to Home Friend, and it turns out that she has been dating a guy (I think she began dating him a while ago). They became “official” at some point, relatively recently I believe, since she was not in town for quite a while (she is vague on when precisely she got back… fine with me… I am her side piece and she is mine, or one of mine, it seems). It turns out that she was again with a guy…. and this time the guy made it official. “Official.” The last one might have too? I can’t keep all of the chick crazy stories straight. This one was apparently f**king another girl, and she figured this out by showing up at his place unannounced and the other girl was there. He wouldn’t let her in, and she is not a total idiot, so she figured it out.

She was angry while she was telling me the story….. then she started crying! This is after the f**king, during which she was not crying, fortunately, because I am not a fan of crying chicks, although dating chicks means you will deal with tears. Things like this have happened before. I come across as sufficiently non-judgmental that chicks pour out their hearts and thoughts to me…… and they are pretty red pill most of the time…… and usually the chicks are missing an important piece of the puzzle, just like young guys who don’t understand why they can’t get the top chicks. My guess is this guy did the classic thing a lot of players seem to do,

  • He likes some chick well enough. Most importantly, she is getting naked for him regularly.
  • He really also likes f**king the chick regularly.
  • He also really wants to f**k other chicks, if he can (a big “if”).
  • He knows chick #1 will turn off the sex if he won’t make it “official.”
  • So he makes it “official” while continuing to f**k other chicks, or trying to. Home Friend has a pretty conventional girl mind… she’s not proven susceptible to alternate mental frameworks.
  • “Official” girlfriend eventually figures it out. Or the side chick tells her. There are any number of ways for this to blow up.

I have been talking about non-monogamy as a way of getting around some of these problems. Some of you readers say that guys who do “official” girlfriend thing are idiots, and maybe probably that’s true, but I am also that idiot, right now, and I am doing things I really shouldn’t be doing, so yeah. The right thing is easy to do when you are debating it on the internet but sometimes harder to do when you confront it in real life.

I digress. Home Friend seemed surprised that I told her a lightened, edited, sanitized version of the above. I don’t think she’s ever thought of it this way before. Most chicks…… they don’t understand the lives and minds of guys. Guys don’t get chicks either. We are not reaching across that divide.

At times I will point out to Home Friend, and chicks like her, that the guys she likes most are also… tall, good-looking, have good social sense (approach her, escalate her, etc.), and they are probably applying those same good attributes to other girls, so why doesn’t Home Friend go choose a guy who is shy, likes her, and is maybe a little scared to approach her, or intimidated by her? She didn’t seem to understand why she would do this. Her language skills are improved but she doesn’t read nuance well… I think if they had been better she would have said what some chicks have admitted, that they want hot challenging guys and not really the guys who are available to them. They want guys +1 or more above them in sexual market value (SMV). The story of modern dating is all about SMV mismatch. She is a young hot girl so not many guys are above her in SMV… but she is not the hottest girl, so she’s stuck thinking about the hottest of the hot girls. She is stuck until she changes, or until she finds a guy who’ll do the things she wants. She might find him! She is hot, like I said. But she is also kind of placid, so she is only really choosing from the guys who come onto her, from what I can tell (I have seen almost nothing of her behavior in the wild). She uses alcohol to free herself and do some hookups, I believe, which leave her feeling bad and empty in the morning.

I said it the last time, but this is the last time. With her anyway. I need to not be like the player she found with another girl in bed! It will happen to you if you pursue that route.

Let’s talk about another player. I have been talking to a player who is going to a sex club pretty soon, or maybe he has already been? He seems to have uncovered a sex demon woman and it looks like he might bang one of her (attractive) friends as well. This is not a widely-appreciated part of f**king high-libido, no-jealousy women: you can end up f**king a lot of chicks, sometimes without trying very hard. She may end up being your wing woman. Like, when I was seeing Ms. Slav properly, I ended up in the double digits of random affiliated f**ks, and that is with me not even trying all that hard. Home Friend is part of the Ms. Slav run-off. And she is very attractive! Flakey as hell, but attractive. If a guy manages to snare a chick like this and wants to have a lot of casual sex with different women…… he can do it. I have been through this cycle a number of times. I think it’s great… it solves some of the problems I mention above. The trick is finding an attractive woman who is into this. They exist, but there aren’t a huge number of them, and they are often already tied to a primary partner.

Some of them also haven’t learned about consensual non-monogamy. The player I’ve been talking to seems to have a woman like this, who is learning about it from him. I hope he’ll write a field report about his experiences. I also don’t know where he’ll end up going.

 European sex club report

(I’ve been talking to this player on Twitter. English isn’t his first language. This is his story, but he wants to remain anonymous right now.)

Sex-positive environments are a unique place: you know that the people there are there for couple of reasons only. They want to open the release steam valve of their perversions (master and slaves, FemDom and all that kind of “beat me” stuff – how a man can feel pleasure in getting kicked in the balls is real hard for me to understand) or to experience hedonism in full colours, and boy, it is fun.

I’ve previously been to a sex-positive club and I was shocked by what happens in these parties: my idea was a bunch of 50 years old that swap their old hag for a bit of “fresh meat” thrill, but I was surprised to see young and attractive girls together with a bunch of equally attractive males. If you have to orgy, orgy hard Daddy.

In these parties, since it’s obvious that everybody is there for sex, you would think that you just walk to a hot chick, pull her hand on your cock and let the magic happens, well, that’s not really what happens…in theory.

Friday night I left for a famous party in Berlin at a famous place that organize these events: the dress code was fetish, so you have bunch of people all leathered up or basically in their underwear – what a magical filter to have for attraction, uh – I love to wear a bad biker outfit with my vest open – this is a form of peacock since 95% of men inside will have terrible bodies, eating too much sugar and drinking beer, if you drink, stick to whiskey, pal.

As a PUA, since you know what kind of social environment you are entering into, you can prepare and out maneuver any kind of competition thanks to game knowledge.

The biggest DHV you can have in these places is to have a good looking girl under your arm, but if you don’t, GAME will be fundamental.

I approached directly a stunning hot blonde in the dungeon and after she blushed, and she immediately shit tested me “Who are you with here.” I will get shit tested on my thirstiness couple of times in this interaction but never on my frame, interestingly enough girls are worried more of thirsty betas than a guy willing to spank her with a whip, frame, uh?

In these places is normal to find hot girls who need to let their slut side go and party hard, ending up in a gangbang or getting tied up to a wooden X and whipped till their body turn red – I replied with something like I parked my subs outside to a pole (do not say something like this in a different environment) and we started vibing: me stacking about her leather outfit (leather stripes going around the body) and then she introduced me to her friend… again, game aficionados would know what a cockblock is but in this context you can use at your advantage (in my case I said who was the master and who slaps who and started spike them both), and my wing comes at the right time but he almost doesn’t notice the set, yet the timing is amazing and I DHV him right in about his crazy shibari skills, while he story tells the friend. I take the chance to take my target to smoke a cigarette (I don’t smoke, the plan was just isolation).

A lot more spikes and locations changes (I have a mini flogger that she wanted to try while bent over a couch), then I asked her to go upstairs to play in privacy (code name for “let’s go fuck”) and she accepts… I take her hand and lead upstairs to a semi dark room with a big bed in it, a little bit of kino and flogging and I decide it’s time to go big or home, I pull my dick out in front of her face and she reaches for it, BOOM +1!

I take her number and her friend is still downstairs with my wing, who had already used the load while an old lady was gang banged by 6 guys with her husband watching… I owe him a lot for going through this. Once the girls reconnect downstairs, her friend says she got something and proceed to speak German – my girl says she will be back in a bit and they disappear together in the toilet (I suspect ecstasy, but who am I to judge?) I will never see her again.

Together with my wing we venture again in the dungeon and he introduces to a tranny that he knows who knows a ton of people, HE/SHE (whatever floats your boat) introduces me to the friend, a blonde chick next to that who immediately notices the flogger (I swear, how many chicks these days know what it is and what is it for) and teases me if I ever used it, I simply reply that if she behaves good with me maybe I will show her.

In reality, the chick is there only to cocktease since her boyfriend is the big guy at the door and she won’t do anything without him…oh well, at least I tried.

I also opened an older woman, because she had a busty body that made me very horny. An interesting thing here for players is couples.

A lot of couple will play with you if you have something to offer, maybe you have a Spartan warrior body, maybe you have an hot girl with you, maybe they just buy your frame, whatever, but a lot of couples will actually participate in games, in this case, as soon as this woman told me “I would like to play with you but I need to ask my husband” I understood that this one was either a total strike with a cuckoo or he would have just dismissed me because of their couple agreement.

Every couple has agreements like “I do the garbage you do the dishes” but they also have agreements on sex clubs, like “we must both bang – if you want to bang I select the man – we go together we live together ” etc. etc.

Turns out the man is a great guy, I started throwing DHVs on how I live life on my terms, after this trip I will go into the woods for a mini survival training (men love this, I’d love to meet people like this too where I’m from) he said they are busy tonight but he number close me to politely dismiss me, I guess their agreement was if you bring a guy, I must fuck what girl he brings – ahh, swingers, you gotta love them.

(Red Quest again: In my experience it’s more common for this sort of thing to happen in circumstances where you, the guy, already have a good reputation and reception. I don’t know how well known this player in this club or scene. I’ve also been told that Europe is better for sex clubs than anywhere else in the world. Most of the time, the sex clubs work when you are bringing a girl to the club. This player might be extremely high value on his own or have a reputation there. )

“First swingers clubs,” from a player in a forum

First swingers clubs“… a guy named Sailors Grave writes in the good looking loser forum. The content is average and there is nothing ground-breaking in his field report, but apart from black dragon he’s the first example I’ve seen of a player talking about swinging and sex parties.

I stumbled onto it by accident but it’s so unusual to find a player speaking to this domain that I’m linking it up. Have you seen other players figure this out?

Brief one about limited interactions at a sex party

Went to another closed sex party Saturday night, and as I began to write this I thought back on The Tom Torero lay report book, “Below the Belt”, “Should you read it? I dunno. If you want more lay reports, then sure. If you’ve already read a bunch of them, as I have, then I don’t know if it’s that useful. They do get repetitive, and that sense of repetition may be part of what’s making me thinking about the next part of my life.” Same thing here, cause a lot of the older sex club reports (the ones I didn’t write cause I wasn’t writing then) would look like this one… went to the party that some friends were hosting. Maybe 100 people there total? Enjoyed it overall and chatted with some people. Not a lot of really good looking girls there, but three or four 7+s were around. Had a couple with a hot girl offer a swap, so that was fun. Declined it, though. Precedent: don’t want to go there right now.

Sex parties, lots of people f**king together in the same space, it’s just very… stimulating. Stimulating in a way impossible to explain without experiencing it. The group dynamic makes everyone f**k better, improves focus, offers encouragement. There’s an undercurrent of feeling that we’re all getting one over on societal rules… that feeling players know… but it’s present here as well. Even if you don’t interact too much with other people, it can be a fun place. The stimulation is there even without f**king another woman. I’ve actually transacted a bit of business at these events, too, cause you never know who’s going to be at them. I’ve seen couples who go regularly but never go beyond touching or kissing other people. They get some of their jollies from the environment, without wanting to risk their primary relationship. Compared to the typical getting drunk and being bored and then being hung over the next day, this is a big improvement. Everyone wants to f**k anyway… better to skip the pretense.

There were a few too many fat chicks for my taste, and more shifty guys than I would have liked, if you know what I mean. Wasn’t enough to make me leave, but I noted it. There was also a small cute girl there who I’ve met before but who has the glassy-eyed, thousand-cock stare that I’m not a fan of. I’m sure some hater guys who have never been think all the chicks there are like that, but that’s not been my experience… most of them have a pretty well-integrated sexuality, a sexuality that their forebrain and hindbrains agree with, and that prevents the vacant look of women who use sex or their bodies for attention, as transactions, etc. This one… I can’t place her. Have not been inside her but have thought about having a go. Something seems a little off about her, and that plus wanting to establish good precedent holds me back. I also need to be congruent. If I am not congruent in what I think I should be doing and what I do, that is going to f**k me up.

Saturday morning I also went out for coffee with my date, and there was a couple sitting across from us. Struck up a bit of a conversation over something, can’t remember what… I found the girl unbelievably sexy, but I’m not sure why exactly… something about the way she moved, or her vibe. The pants she was wearing, somewhere between yoga pants and sweatpants, just made her ass look fantastic. The guy was more interesting than average too. They both looked like they’d just rolled out of bed. Probably won’t go anywhere, but the old ways and habits die hard. I dropped a strategic drug reference in, and that went over well. I get the vibe from them, probably because I really want to get the vibe.

It also appears that Torero has killed his whole online presence, so if you want the book, speak up and maybe it will find its way to you.