European sex club report

(I’ve been talking to this player on Twitter. English isn’t his first language. This is his story, but he wants to remain anonymous right now.)

Sex-positive environments are a unique place: you know that the people there are there for couple of reasons only. They want to open the release steam valve of their perversions (master and slaves, FemDom and all that kind of “beat me” stuff – how a man can feel pleasure in getting kicked in the balls is real hard for me to understand) or to experience hedonism in full colours, and boy, it is fun.

I’ve previously been to a sex-positive club and I was shocked by what happens in these parties: my idea was a bunch of 50 years old that swap their old hag for a bit of “fresh meat” thrill, but I was surprised to see young and attractive girls together with a bunch of equally attractive males. If you have to orgy, orgy hard Daddy.

In these parties, since it’s obvious that everybody is there for sex, you would think that you just walk to a hot chick, pull her hand on your cock and let the magic happens, well, that’s not really what happens…in theory.

Friday night I left for a famous party in Berlin at a famous place that organize these events: the dress code was fetish, so you have bunch of people all leathered up or basically in their underwear – what a magical filter to have for attraction, uh – I love to wear a bad biker outfit with my vest open – this is a form of peacock since 95% of men inside will have terrible bodies, eating too much sugar and drinking beer, if you drink, stick to whiskey, pal.

As a PUA, since you know what kind of social environment you are entering into, you can prepare and out maneuver any kind of competition thanks to game knowledge.

The biggest DHV you can have in these places is to have a good looking girl under your arm, but if you don’t, GAME will be fundamental.

I approached directly a stunning hot blonde in the dungeon and after she blushed, and she immediately shit tested me “Who are you with here.” I will get shit tested on my thirstiness couple of times in this interaction but never on my frame, interestingly enough girls are worried more of thirsty betas than a guy willing to spank her with a whip, frame, uh?

In these places is normal to find hot girls who need to let their slut side go and party hard, ending up in a gangbang or getting tied up to a wooden X and whipped till their body turn red – I replied with something like I parked my subs outside to a pole (do not say something like this in a different environment) and we started vibing: me stacking about her leather outfit (leather stripes going around the body) and then she introduced me to her friend… again, game aficionados would know what a cockblock is but in this context you can use at your advantage (in my case I said who was the master and who slaps who and started spike them both), and my wing comes at the right time but he almost doesn’t notice the set, yet the timing is amazing and I DHV him right in about his crazy shibari skills, while he story tells the friend. I take the chance to take my target to smoke a cigarette (I don’t smoke, the plan was just isolation).

A lot more spikes and locations changes (I have a mini flogger that she wanted to try while bent over a couch), then I asked her to go upstairs to play in privacy (code name for “let’s go fuck”) and she accepts… I take her hand and lead upstairs to a semi dark room with a big bed in it, a little bit of kino and flogging and I decide it’s time to go big or home, I pull my dick out in front of her face and she reaches for it, BOOM +1!

I take her number and her friend is still downstairs with my wing, who had already used the load while an old lady was gang banged by 6 guys with her husband watching… I owe him a lot for going through this. Once the girls reconnect downstairs, her friend says she got something and proceed to speak German – my girl says she will be back in a bit and they disappear together in the toilet (I suspect ecstasy, but who am I to judge?) I will never see her again.

Together with my wing we venture again in the dungeon and he introduces to a tranny that he knows who knows a ton of people, HE/SHE (whatever floats your boat) introduces me to the friend, a blonde chick next to that who immediately notices the flogger (I swear, how many chicks these days know what it is and what is it for) and teases me if I ever used it, I simply reply that if she behaves good with me maybe I will show her.

In reality, the chick is there only to cocktease since her boyfriend is the big guy at the door and she won’t do anything without him…oh well, at least I tried.

I also opened an older woman, because she had a busty body that made me very horny. An interesting thing here for players is couples.

A lot of couple will play with you if you have something to offer, maybe you have a Spartan warrior body, maybe you have an hot girl with you, maybe they just buy your frame, whatever, but a lot of couples will actually participate in games, in this case, as soon as this woman told me “I would like to play with you but I need to ask my husband” I understood that this one was either a total strike with a cuckoo or he would have just dismissed me because of their couple agreement.

Every couple has agreements like “I do the garbage you do the dishes” but they also have agreements on sex clubs, like “we must both bang – if you want to bang I select the man – we go together we live together ” etc. etc.

Turns out the man is a great guy, I started throwing DHVs on how I live life on my terms, after this trip I will go into the woods for a mini survival training (men love this, I’d love to meet people like this too where I’m from) he said they are busy tonight but he number close me to politely dismiss me, I guess their agreement was if you bring a guy, I must fuck what girl he brings – ahh, swingers, you gotta love them.

(Red Quest again: In my experience it’s more common for this sort of thing to happen in circumstances where you, the guy, already have a good reputation and reception. I don’t know how well known this player in this club or scene. I’ve also been told that Europe is better for sex clubs than anywhere else in the world. Most of the time, the sex clubs work when you are bringing a girl to the club. This player might be extremely high value on his own or have a reputation there. )

“First swingers clubs,” from a player in a forum

First swingers clubs“… a guy named Sailors Grave writes in the good looking loser forum. The content is average and there is nothing ground-breaking in his field report, but apart from black dragon he’s the first example I’ve seen of a player talking about swinging and sex parties.

I stumbled onto it by accident but it’s so unusual to find a player speaking to this domain that I’m linking it up. Have you seen other players figure this out?

Brief one about limited interactions at a sex party

Went to another closed sex party Saturday night, and as I began to write this I thought back on The Tom Torero lay report book, “Below the Belt”, “Should you read it? I dunno. If you want more lay reports, then sure. If you’ve already read a bunch of them, as I have, then I don’t know if it’s that useful. They do get repetitive, and that sense of repetition may be part of what’s making me thinking about the next part of my life.” Same thing here, cause a lot of the older sex club reports (the ones I didn’t write cause I wasn’t writing then) would look like this one… went to the party that some friends were hosting. Maybe 100 people there total? Enjoyed it overall and chatted with some people. Not a lot of really good looking girls there, but three or four 7+s were around. Had a couple with a hot girl offer a swap, so that was fun. Declined it, though. Precedent: don’t want to go there right now.

Sex parties, lots of people f**king together in the same space, it’s just very… stimulating. Stimulating in a way impossible to explain without experiencing it. The group dynamic makes everyone f**k better, improves focus, offers encouragement. There’s an undercurrent of feeling that we’re all getting one over on societal rules… that feeling players know… but it’s present here as well. Even if you don’t interact too much with other people, it can be a fun place. The stimulation is there even without f**king another woman. I’ve actually transacted a bit of business at these events, too, cause you never know who’s going to be at them. I’ve seen couples who go regularly but never go beyond touching or kissing other people. They get some of their jollies from the environment, without wanting to risk their primary relationship. Compared to the typical getting drunk and being bored and then being hung over the next day, this is a big improvement. Everyone wants to f**k anyway… better to skip the pretense.

There were a few too many fat chicks for my taste, and more shifty guys than I would have liked, if you know what I mean. Wasn’t enough to make me leave, but I noted it. There was also a small cute girl there who I’ve met before but who has the glassy-eyed, thousand-cock stare that I’m not a fan of. I’m sure some hater guys who have never been think all the chicks there are like that, but that’s not been my experience… most of them have a pretty well-integrated sexuality, a sexuality that their forebrain and hindbrains agree with, and that prevents the vacant look of women who use sex or their bodies for attention, as transactions, etc. This one… I can’t place her. Have not been inside her but have thought about having a go. Something seems a little off about her, and that plus wanting to establish good precedent holds me back. I also need to be congruent. If I am not congruent in what I think I should be doing and what I do, that is going to f**k me up.

Saturday morning I also went out for coffee with my date, and there was a couple sitting across from us. Struck up a bit of a conversation over something, can’t remember what… I found the girl unbelievably sexy, but I’m not sure why exactly… something about the way she moved, or her vibe. The pants she was wearing, somewhere between yoga pants and sweatpants, just made her ass look fantastic. The guy was more interesting than average too. They both looked like they’d just rolled out of bed. Probably won’t go anywhere, but the old ways and habits die hard. I dropped a strategic drug reference in, and that went over well. I get the vibe from them, probably because I really want to get the vibe.

It also appears that Torero has killed his whole online presence, so if you want the book, speak up and maybe it will find its way to you.

Yoylo’s first sex club experience [FR]

If you follow me on Twitter you may have seen Yoylo… this is his first field report on the blog, and follow his adventures on Twitter too. I like this story because it illustrates the dangers of not being on the same team with your date, and I worry that I have given too positive a vision of the non-monogamy world.

A bit of a background: I got married at 23, and she was 23 as well. Our daughter was born at 26 and by 30 we all moved from Russia to Sydney. But my then-wife and I separated mid 2018 and divorce papers are in court now. Joint application. The hearing is scheduled for early 2020.

A few months after our separation she found a guy, late 40s or early 50s, who she fucks semi-regularly till now. She tried a few other guys but no one stuck except that one. Apparently he’s a good fuck, knows what he’s doing, but they have no other relations but sex at her place once per week or less (this guy comes as he pleases).

I banged a few girls and had a mini-relationship with one city chick in the Philippines, where I go periodically to check on my property; I bought an investment condo a while ago, so I’m there a few times per year. I went in April as well and spent a weekend with this “girlfriend.”

My ex and I remained friends after separation and talked openly about her sex with this guy and my stuff with various women too. We met regularly for a coffee or a drink and to spend time with our daughter together. And we fucked a few times; the first time you fuck a woman is almost always the most challenging, as subsequent sex doesn’t increment her internal notch counter. This is part of the Matthew Effect: the more women a guy fucks, the more likely he’s going to have one rebound on his cock.

Continue reading “Yoylo’s first sex club experience [FR]”

Oh, I was wrong about the Tinder thing, it is that bad

I was wrong, and you all (as well as my younger friend) were right. Some context: a younger guy I know through work recently got what he perceives to be a nuclear breakup, in which his girlfriend of four years standing just dumped him… without any warnings that he picked up. More likely, he is an oblivious younger guy who thinks he is the man and had started taking the chick for granted and/or ignoring her subtler signs. Or who knows, maybe she did just wake up and drop him one day.

He was devastated for a month then signed up for online dating, like everyone else, notably on Tinder, and it was not good for him. I’ve met his ex and she’s quite attractive, although I suspect she’s going to run to fat due to low discipline… probably a low 8 today and might have been higher when they met. My friend got on Tinder and a few weeks ago started telling me how bad it has been for him. I said that it can’t be that bad, relying on my four, five year old memories of it… I bragged to him, “I will make a Tinder account, lie about my age, and I’ll show you how to do it.” Mentally, I thought, “It can’t be that hard, especially with good pictures.” I also told him to Google “daygame” and read the Neil Strauss book, but I don’t think he’s done either.

I did make the Tinder account and it has changed. The number of matches I got, even with very similar profiles, dropped majorly. I paid for the version that shows me who likes my profile, and my Tinder reaction is, “Where are all these fat chicks coming from?” While I too have read about how half of Americans are fat and another quarter “overweight” (polite term for fat)… I have never seen so many fat chicks in one place. I guess they are invisible to me in everyday life, unless they are blocking the sidewalk or I have to sit next to a sugar addict on a plane.

I ought to apologize to my colleague/friend and to the guys online who I privately doubted… RP Murphy / Red Pill Dad has been writing about this, and I’m glad I didn’t say anything publicly, because he is correct and I was not.

Tinder is owned by a company called Match.com, and the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is suing Match.com and Tinder for fraudulent business practices, including fake profiles and fake expressions of interest. Match.com is almost certainly doing the same thing on Tinder, possibly by leaving old and out-of-date profiles up. Back when I used to do online dating before the swipe app revolution, it was pretty easy to run out of attractive, active matches, even in a pretty big city. Tinder never seems to run out, which means that there are either thousands more attractive women online at a given time (unlikely), or Match.com is lying, fudging profiles, and holding some attractive profiles in “reserve” for subscribers. The level of backend manipulation is outrageous.

I was on Tinder for like 10 – 12 days and two girls of note came out on dates. One of them had a Snapchat listed, so I messaged her on there… she replied (surprising, as she was hot) and quickly told me that she is “sort of” a “model and escort girl.” I told her that’s fine and then told her that I’ve dated girls who are sex workers before (this is true, albeit non-monogamously). Sent her some pics of us together. She then began asking me how much they charged an hour! And how much she should charge. I began laughing out loud and told her that she was thinking about it all wrong and that we should talk about it over drinks. She said okay.

Over drinks we talked about why she wants to do it, what she’s doing with her life (kind of in school, but her answers are flakey enough to make me think not in school), and I am studiously watching her eyes and not her prominently displayed tits. After a while, at the second bar, I tell her a little bit about what I understand about the sex work business.

Being an escort who makes good money and (ideally) avoids bad situations is only partly about having an available pussy and a good body. The rest of it is a mix of psychologist, customer service, and understanding the male mind. Most guys are not looking *just* for sex… Nash has been talking on Twitter lately about how guys are emotional about chicks, just not in the way that many chicks expect. Most guys, even guys who don’t want to commit are not seeking totally mechanical casual sex where they nut, roll over, and leave… they are seeking to connect with the chick. But many chicks are too f**ked up to let the proper connection happen. There is some more to this argument… I hope we get a Nash post on it soon.

Back to the story, two bars, some kissing between bars, some making out in bar #2, and she comes back but is a little skittish. She is also pretty young and maybe not used to hooking up with adult guys in adult guy spaces, so I pour the wine and after some wine do the kissing again. I can tell that she’s nervous and I call it out. She admits she’s nervous and I tell her not to be, but I’m getting kind of weird energy so I pull back and do a “back to college” move and suggest we watch something on Netflix… I have an account for a reason… so I pick Sense8… seems to be my go-to for some reason, and we start watching on a computer. It seems to work because she relaxes. The escort talk is mostly gone and after ten or 15 minutes we’re f**king and it’s actually quite nice.

After she re-opens the escort talk… and I’m thinking, “Has she just ‘paid’ me for more advice about sex work?” To be honest I think the answer is yes. I go on with the spiel, guys are there for sex but also for validation, for a pretty girl to tell him he’s handsome, he’s good in bed, his wife doesn’t appreciate him properly, his boss should give him a promotion, etc. etc. Not as crudely as I’ve put it here, but good sex workers do all those things… and are usually seeking more like a monthly allowance situation, which means less sex (mileage on her pussy) and more money. All things that guys who have been consultants of any kind understand… you want to get out of the “commodity service provider” category and into the “essential business practice and improvement category.” Like the consulting things discussed here.

She seems pretty impressed, although she won’t let me shoot nude pics (how is she going to escort??), and she stays over. We have another two sex-dates together. I learn her parents are divorced… not good… she admits she is between schools right now… she reminds me a little bit of Low-cut top girl, although hotter and less combative, but a little bit lost and with f**ked up intersex dynamics. Despite her physical attractiveness I could not get into her and during the third date suggested that we go to a sex club together. I’d seeded the idea a little bit with the concept that monogamy is strange if you think about it… but she was not receptive and then ghosted me.

The other chick was a high 6 or so, not as attractive as her pics, but had a decently bright and bubbly personality. We told a lot of dating stories, then moved into more life trajectory and emotional ideas… she seemed to vibe with it… two venues, back to my place, we start kissing again and she stops me to say that we can’t do this if I’m just going to ghost her. I tell her my views on ghosting, articulated at the link, but then I also turn into a girl and say, “You’re right, we shouldn’t do this tonight.” That’s often a line from game, but I mean it… I just don’t want to bang a girl who’s going to get hurt by it after… I can tell she is wrong for me (not hot enough, smart enough, personality not good enough), and then the script reverses and she says she really wants to and that she wasn’t trying to stop me. I tell her honestly that I don’t think we’re right for each other… she then gets on her knees and starts blowing me, to recapture momentum… I’m saying that I don’t think we should do this and I don’t want to set bad expectations that I am not going to live up to… she has stopped talking and keeps performing… it does feel like a performance, which is not my favorite feeling, but in the end I am still a guy and go with it.

We do date two… it’s also okay… before we have sex I just break out the idea of going to a sex club (also prematurely)… she is not into it either and looks like she’s going to cry as well… and she talks pretty bitterly about how guys just want to f**k and no one wants a relationship. Two chicks off Tinder, two sessions in tears or near tears. I’m kind of depressed, but I ask her about what the guys on Tinder have in common… she doesn’t know… I give her a version of “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures,” and I tell her that she’s probably like most people doing online dating and trying to get guys who are at least 20% more attractive than her, and that’s almost always going to lead her to disappointment. Like most people, she is dumb and wants to know if I’m saying she’s ugly. She’s not ugly, not at all, but attractiveness is a spectrum… if she is trying to date guys higher than her… guys who look good online… she is going to have problems. I don’t think she is receptive to this and it probably just makes her angry. I tell her she should just stop doing monogamy… this doesn’t seem to make her happy either. We have sex anyway, about an hour later, and the next day I tell her that I like her but that I think she is looking for someone who is not me. She doesn’t reply. Ghosted again.

These two are out of probably 100+ chicks I have liked or messaged via Instagram or Snapchat. Neither one of them really count properly in my opinion. Most of the Instagram ones did not reply. Makes me think about, Could Instagram be becoming an important adjunct to game?

So what do I think about Tinder?

I’m pretty confident Tinder gives paying customers boosts up and beyond whatever they say they do, so I bought the premium features. One of them lets me see who has liked me. Almost everyone who did, was fat. Literally, where are all these fat girls? They must be all around me, and I just don’t notice them at all, unless they’re in my way (to be fair, they often are). I’d guess that you need to buy the better versions of Tinder to make a go at all.

What happened to Tinder? Some possibilities include…

1. I’m doing it wrong somehow. Maybe I need longer conversations. I’m not and never have been a fan of long online conversations, because ten minutes in person will reveal compatibility far better than ten hours of online conversation, but the market may have shifted in that direction.

2. My profile is/was too tuned to jackass party boy. I changed it halfway through.

3. Lack of Instagram presence is holding me back.

4. I didn’t put enough time in: in my defense, this was a pretty low time commitment… previous forays in this world have shown that 90% of the output emerges from like 10% of the time, and that if it doesn’t happen pretty fast, it’s time to move on and try another strategy. It took the belligerents in WWI way too many years to learn that horses are worthless and charging into entrenched machine gun positions is stupid. Humans are resistant to reality and I am not an exception, however much I want to fancy myself one.

5. Something else I’m not aware of.

Out of the ten or so acceptably attractive and seemingly normal chicks I matched with, two wanted to go on dates apart from the 6, both were bad (see below). Generally, I unmatched pretty quickly if the date wasn’t going to happen, or removed them from Instagram if that was the contact point. My sense from talking to people in real life is that many people let matches sit there and linger for weeks and months… this seems to provide chicks with a sense of unlimited possibility, which is bad (for guys as well as the chicks themselves, I think). Guys should un-match or block the chicks if it’s not moving forward pretty rapidly.

Also, I hadn’t 100% appreciated the extent to which some chicks are into Instagram. A large percentage of chicks appear to be chasing Instagram attention; how many deeply understand that online attention is garbage? I don’t recall this from long-ago forays into Tinder. To do online seriously, I think need an Instagram thing as an extension of online dating. Fortunately, I don’t want that.

One entertaining girl I messaged on Snapchat, a standard opener. Opened, no reply from her. Then I did a Torero-like recovery text, figuring that I’d see what happened, and she replied, “You have to understand I get a million messages a day, I only reply to the pictures.” Incredibly bitchy, but also maybe good advice. I replied the same is true of me (it isn’t, thank God) and wished her luck. And then removed her.

My impression from interacting with people in their 20s is that a lot of guys retain random chicks on social media accounts when they shouldn’t… this is bad for the guy (his brain incorrectly thinks he’s got a shot) and addictive to the chick (cause chicks love attention). I did message some chicks (on Instagram, it appears you can message chicks without following them), and then removed them when they didn’t reply or didn’t want to go on a date. Perhaps this is the “wrong” thing and chicks watch guys’s feeds, then message the ones they find interesting. If so, that seems like a terrible way to be in the game, but, again, I could be wrong on this.

If this online thing is really how 20-somethings are trying to pair off, I understand why they are all miserable… I don’t mean to be an old codger, but something has gone seriously wrong. The number of articles about social and emotional problems in Gen Z is enormous. If they are on Tinder, I see why… it is so damn depressing, far more depressing than I could have imagined, far more depressing than daygame (or maybe I have enough practice to not to be too hurt by blowouts?). And the number of fat chicks… it’s like a zombie army of them. Chicks must also be unhappy because so many of them are too fat to attract a man’s attention and lack the fortitude to implement the simple systems needed to be height-weight appropriate. I have long disliked the arguments about modern life being fundamentally f**ked up, but using Tinder makes me think they have some validity.

I can see why some non-elite guys get radicalized by attempting Tinder, since it’s a depressing and yet awesome display of female privilege… female privilege has always existed, of course, but it’s not been so in your face… a huge parade of attractive chicks, all implicitly saying “no.” Worse than them is the even larger parade of not-so-attractive chicks, all also saying no.

Apart from the two chicks I told stories about, I did go out with two other random chicks who turned out to be fatter than I thought. Did chit-chat for an hour… I will say that fatter chicks are way more engaged and work harder to impress me, but it just… doesn’t work. I can’t be bothered. I feel bad for fat chicks. Just not bad enough to try and bang ’em.

How many guys stay with a woman not because they’re excited about her, but because they don’t think they can do any better? Bet a lot of guys do.

Among the two non-fatties I met, the would-be prostitute is the more interesting one. Has the figure for it. But she is just not that smart, which I could tell by talking to her and trying to explain some about what successful prostitutes do (it isn’t just the sex).

She also wouldn’t let me shoot nude photos of her at all, even though shooting a chick nude is somewhat normal today, especially at the beginning of an affair, but refusing is strange for someone who is going to let strangers shoot loads into her for money.

With both chicks, I told them a lot about what I actually think, and that was probably “bad game.” I was having a Twitter conversation about “honesty” versus “social skills” or “palatability” recently, where one guy said you should be scrupulously honest with everything you say to chicks. It’s an opinion and I understand why he has it. But I think it’s also a good idea to have the social skills to know what you should say and when you should say it… to take a non-game example, if you have a junior colleague who wants to take an assignment he’s not ready for, you could say, “No. You suck.” In some circumstances that could be appropriate, but in many cases it will sting him and make him hate you.

You could instead say to him, “What skills do you think the assignment needs?” Lead him down that path. Ask him what he thinks he’ll be doing in that assignment. Ask him how he thinks he’ll handle some of the challenges that arise. If he can’t answer some of those questions… he’s likely to see the problems for himself. And then you can say, “Work on those skills, show me work product [x], and then we’ll talk again.”

Same effect, different outcome, right?

Sometimes being super blunt is the right thing to do. More often, it will alienate people, especially early on. With the 8… she lacks the internal ability to realize she’s not that smart and as a result has not thought through the various things that her job entails. Maybe she will learn them over time, but I’m not sure she has the intelligence to do that. Her emotional intelligence doesn’t seem to be particularly high either. I warned her that there’s a good solid chance she’s going to have some really negative experiences if she’s meeting totally unknown guys for paid sex off Tinder.

She almost started crying (second date). Didn’t quite cry, but almost. I tried to comfort her some… and told her to get a job as a hostess at a restaurant or something like that. She has had jobs like that, but the pay is not high and at the last one some guy working there was apparently chasing her around, thinking she’s a free bread basket and he wants to dive in for the goodies. Although her story was somewhat garbled. She seemed to be looking at me for moral support and I kind of shrugged and was like, “That’s guys.” Put your foot down. I don’t know, call the police if he’s touching her without her consent. She strikes me as the sort of girl who can’t say no properly, who will do so in a flirty way that says to men, “Come hither.”

Or… who knows… maybe she was f**king the guy, and some other guy was jealous and made things uncomfortable for her. This is another “narrative” thing. Most chicks complaining of “sexual harassment…” it’s bullshit. It’s abetted partially by the chick, like most guys who get conned are getting conned because they’re trying to get something for nothing.

Both these chicks are examples of how NOT to seed non-monogamy. To do it properly, a chick has to be invested in you and has to be largely in your frame. It should be done like 6 – 12 weeks after the initial sex. I used it here (and have used it in similar circumstances) as a filter for chicks I’m not 100% into… they can get introduced to the world, I can get credit for bringing new chicks in, etc. It’s a low probability play that I use in situations when I’m going to let the girl go anyway… so I might as well test to see if she has deep non-monogamous fantasies that I can engage. In both their cases, the answer is no, or I just couldn’t be bothered to do it right.

What a depressing experience… there seems to have been a “golden age” of online dating from like 2006 – 2014 or 2015… when being online got old enough to make online dating not be too weird, but before smartphones and the masses destroyed it.

I think I also haven’t properly appreciated an ecosystem advantage I have (or had, as I am pretty much letting it go, I think). The power of real-world meeting has always been large, but it seems to have actually grown as more people have heaved themselves online.

I feel like kind of an idiot for mentally scoffing at the guys who denigrate online dating apps… I dunno, maybe Bumble works better, because it forces chicks to make a decision. Overall, though, some of the anger among the Red Pill communities makes a little more sense… if my primary experience of dating were of online dating, I’d think women are idiots too… although I’d be wrong, I’d be basing that view off a limited number of women and a circumstance not favorable to guys. The anger of women towards men also makes a little more sense… women don’t actually like having to choose between 30 different, very similar appearing guys, I think. At the same time, they go out with the hottest-seeming guys… get f**ked… then the guy moves on… then the woman posts something online about how ALL MEN ARE DOGS… because she is chasing the OMG hottest guy, who has lots of other options. Truly a situation to breed discord. In real life, people who behave as dysfunctionally as they do online will fail.

I also don’t believe women who can’t find dates online. They are being unreasonable and not dating effectively.

A lot of younger chicks also seem to be social retards. They’re spending too much time online and not enough time in the real world. Social retards who spend too much time online make themselves even more socially retarded. This applies to guys too and explains why so much of the Red Pill discourse is retarded… it’s being driven by guys who are spending 4+ hours a day online, instead of going out into the real world and meeting chicks. Or even other guys. A lot of younger chicks seem more socially retarded than they did when I was like 20. Japan shows us where we’re going.

So many people are living contrary to human nature. Too much time online, too much sugar and simple carbs, not enough time exercising, no time creating. Too much consuming, too little creating. Half of teenagers have social/emotional problems like anxiety and depression… because of how we live now… and we are too addled to learn how to live properly. We are meant to interact with other humans in real life… not an infinite sprawl of their shitty pics online, working for social media companies without being paid for it.

There is a meta lesson here, too, which is that real experience beats theorizing. I didn’t appreciate how f**king bad it is. In a few relatively short years, the whole thing changed around. I also didn’t appreciate how mal-adaptive a lot of the female behavior seems to be online. Or is it that the adaptive chicks just get snapped up faster? Whatever the source is, I was just f**king wrong. It’s humbling to be so wrong.

I would guess that it can be useful to use online dating once every 2 – 3 months to pick up any easy pickings who are new to online… otherwise, not at all… and like I said, it’s just f**king depressing.

If I am a high-quality guy (I let others make that determination), I made the Tinder market a little bit worse when I deleted my account. Who is left when the high-quality people with good social skills and lives leave?

I will say that I feel validated in pursuing the non-monogamy dating patterns I’ve followed, as dating couples and some single chicks WITH a chick is way more fun than pursuing it alone. Doing so has also helped me develop pretty large social networks through friends and friends-of-friends. When a woman breaks up with her boyfriend, her first source of new dick is often guys she already knows… and ideally guys she’s already f**ked… meaning, me.

I knew that non-monogamous dating is a kind of force-multiplier effect: more sex with less work. Until this experiment I didn’t appreciate how much the force-multiplier works. I had thought it was like a multiplier of 1.5 or 1.75 or something like that. Now I think it’s like a 3 – 5x multiplier, at least if you’re a guy who just wants more sex with hot chicks… Nash seems to like relatively inexperienced chicks, with particular life histories… the kinds of chicks who are not going to end up at sex clubs, for the most part… so for someone like that, what I’ve done is the wrong route. For someone like me, this seems like it’s been an incredible deal, which I didn’t understand until recently. Seeing the conventional-dating online wasteland has changed my view. Now I think I am more of an advocate for this than I was, for a guy who wants sex with a lot of different women.

Maybe all the supposed Tinder hookup stories are about fat chicks.

Maybe I’m doing it wrong and need to tone down the fuckboy profile.

Maybe I should actually amp up the profile and make it all about bondage, paddles, and discreetly anonymized chicks who are tied up (that’s one way to filter). I speculate on this because Feeld has been okay for me, as I wrote above, though it does depend on starting w/ a hot chick.

It’s been a while since I’ve been this provably wrong.

This tweet is interesting… I find it almost unbelievable and wonder if this pattern is common. We may also be in a cycle where on Tinder chicks are shit to guys, so the better guys leave it… as the better guys leave, the better chicks do as well… and then the chicks are bitchy to the guys, and the guys are trying a mass-contact strategy, leaving everyone poorly off.

Despite a low or moderate amount of effort I technically slept with two chicks, but the escort one is too weird to “count” as a proper lay and the other one is not really hot enough IMO. While I’ve done worse I don’t see any reason to count her. It sapped my spirit… I don’t think f**king an 8 has ever sapped my spirit before… this is a new feeling.

Overall, this experiment points to the need for in-person approach over online. Something has gone terribly wrong w/ the online world in the last 4 – 5 years. I hadn’t appreciated how badly that’s happened.

 

The unexpected one from Feeld: she is a tourist from another country

Usually Feeld is only useful for couples: I’ve used it, on and off, for dates w/ other couples, and it’s been fairly successful for that (see archives for some examples… Peaches came from there originally). Some “unicorns” (single, unattached girls open to sex with couples) show up, but they’re pretty rare and I don’t think I’ve had a real-life meet with a true unicorn from the app. Till now. Matched with a couple of unicorns, but I push the meet pretty quickly as I don’t want to be anyone’s penpal. This girl, I’m going to call her “Marcia,” was planning to visit town and said so in her profile. She’s surprisingly pretty (7) and interested in sexual exploration, and, most surprising of all, she shows up to the first date, after relatively minimal talk about sex clubs and how they work, as well as where she lives. On the first date she’s put off that I didn’t bring a girl, but I asked how many girls she’s dated from online (zero) and then reminded her that girls are flakey as hell, and on the fly I told her that I often vet chicks. The last bit is not precisely true but true enough.

[Strangely, I’ve been getting a lot of questions from players / wannabe players about how to start doing non-monogamy, and then I say, check the book, and they’re like, what book? Not sure what’s up with that, but it’s in the side bar.] 

Back to the story: lots of talk about respective countries, what she’s looking for, and lots of sex talk… given how we met, the sex talk was a given. She’s not living in the biggest city in her country, which is likely a big barrier to good kink and non-monogamy communities. Pretty standard two-venue, two drinks at each venue, did the bang. Mid 7, mid 20s, not too exceptional, although young & thin is way too rare in the age of relentless sugar consumption. Next night, my threesome buddy was around, so we banged her pretty relentlessly together. He’s been seeing a new girl for a while, and we double teamed her a while ago, but there wasn’t a story in that one. Lately I feel like I’ve been picking up random lays here and there rather than having a consistent main chick, although that may change here… I may be finding my way out of the game… we shall see.

With this girl, the night after, we had a threesome with Ms. Slav, so Marcia got her girl-girl threesome too. She seemed pretty impressed that she expressed a desire for group sex and then… got group sex. I get that perspective, as most people, particularly women, can’t execute anything. When I told Marcia that chicks are flakey and bad at planning, at first she denied, but after some back and forth where I challenged her on what women have made happen romantically in her life, she came around to agreeing. Night after I rested, night after that I took her to a sex club w/ Ms. Slav and others, and did a nice swap with a pretty blonde girl whose boyfriend seemed very happy to be f**king a new girl. I was pretty beat by the end.

This happened a while ago… I wrote most of this story, then didn’t get around to posting. Marcia did get what she wanted in the form of sexual experimentation (she’d mentioned it in her original profile). She seemed happy to see me and amazed at what’s possible. I think she can get sex positivity and kink from her home country, just not from where she is living.

Overall it was a positive experience for both of us, but it is not a very repeatable experience because Feeld works best for couple-to-couple dating. Many couples on it are seeking unicorns (I will snag one if I see one, which I don’t) but I get the sense that the unicorn thing almost never works out. Doesn’t stop people from trying, though.

It’s useful to distinguish between attainable, repeatable strategies versus weird one-offs. Many guys online focus on daygame because it’s attainable and repeatable. Advice like, “Just become a famous actor or musician” may be repeatable, but it’s not attainable. Guys who get ecosystems going (like being in a cool local band) may have systems that are repeatable, but not useful for a guy with zero inclination towards music. Non-monogamy systems like Feeld or SDC can work for guys with one decently hot chick and who are seeking others but will probably not work for a guy without a chick. You have to have the first chick, like you can’t do nuclear fission without a high element like uranium.

But if you, the player, are out trying various things, various angles, sometimes you will get a good some random lays, as happened to me here, from unexpected sources. It does seem like non-monogamy is more popular than it used to be, and that, for guys having casual sex with multiple women, there is little reason not to attempt this. Since the girl you’re casually f**king is likely casually f**king other guys anyway, why not make that impulse work for you?

It seems average people, even average players, don’t understand how powerful the non-monogamy thing can be. I have this system set up, where I can pretty much (not perfectly) deliver on many women’s deepest fantasies. This chick Marcia came along and discovered that I can make things happen that other guys can’t make happen… pretty cool if you think about it. Other players can also layer the non-monogamy network on top of the rest of their game.

Marica learned a lot about how non-monogamy works, and I explained to her that for a lot of people the hardest part is not jealousy, it’s not the things that people typically expect… it’s time management.

I have been seeing some of Ms. Slav, just not that much. Enough to keep the demons at bay, but in some ways I feel a little stupid about Ms. Slav, like I brought fresh meat to the village and haven’t gotten enough credit for it… or enough of the meat. Doesn’t matter much now, but it’s a feeling I’ve been having… maybe I’m turning into a chick, but I’m trying to pay more attention to how I feel, rather than just what I do and how effective I am at doing it.

It’s kind of a weird sensation. Is this how chicks live? No wonder they can’t get shit done. Intellectually, I know that Ms. Slav and I had an implicit deal and I have more or less held up my side and despite some flakiness from her she has actually more or less held up her side. A chick like her is why some guys go to the sex clubs and parties… they will occasionally get a free lunch, a young hot chick who just loves to f**k, and that is her. Right place, right time, you can get what you came for. Pretty unusual, but not impossible. Everything I have seen in this world reaffirms the idea that there are no shortcuts, even as I keep looking for them, wanting them to exist. Pointless, really. Marica was a sort of shortcut, but one who comes along so rarely that there is no point is seeking other chicks like her.

I think Marica might genuinely have flown across an ocean to attempt to have casual group sex experiences. Seems like a damn long way to go. She seems a little unimaginative… like those travel bores who are droning on about where they went and what they ate, but have zero insight and seem to have set fire to a bunch of money so they can tell their friends they once went to Italy. Right after I finished this post, I saw a Long Burn The Fire tweet, “When you ask a girl to describe how a particular experience made her feel and she replies with ‘i dunno, why are you asking this, thats weird’ youll know youve arrived in retard land.” Marcia is not in retard land… but she’s also living not too far from the border. (Long Burn The Fire, if you are reading this, where is your blog???)

I feel kind of tired of chasing down chicks for sex who aren’t that good… I know that the smart thing to do is to keep chasing, but be more discriminating… I don’t know, though, as I’ve been thinking about some of the really top chicks in my life, and there just aren’t that many of them. I have a much darker view of humanity in general than I used to. A lot of people just seem kid of worthless. That makes me wonder, though, does someone who is like 20 IQ points above me, who has achieved far more than me, look at me and think I’m kind of worthless? For some people, that could be a legitimate view. I read biographies of some of the real greats, especially in science, math, and engineering, and it’s like, “These guys were doing shit beyond anything I can even attempt.” This is not a terribly productive line of thought, but sometimes dark thoughts help us better orient ourselves toward the future.

Emotions and Ms. Slav, Low-cut top girl and a weird foursome

Last Friday, after a decent interval since I’d last seen her (er, had sex with her…), Ms. Slav came over and we discussed this, and what else in her life has been going on (a lot), what else has been going in mine (not that much), and the nature of being in different stages of life. The sex was weirdly tender and emotional… I don’t think it was “goodbye sex,” but it may be “de-escalation” sex. She is still learning a lot of things (more on that later). One nice thing about Ms. Slav is that pretty much any time we get together, we have sex, no matter what else is happening. Regular f**king really does smooth over a lot of other issues… if more women understood this and implemented it, the divorce rate would be considerably lower. Just getting on the knees and sucking a couple times a week really does strengthen relationships. Couples therapists need to start assigning blowjob therapy if they are serious about helping people in relationships.

Low-cut top girl DID show up to the foursome, and I was pretty surprised. She dressed in an outfit very similar, or maybe identical, to the one she was wearing the night I met her… only two months ago… feels like a lot longer.

The foursome was pretty straightforward, although early on the woman in the other couple asked a lot of questions about how we know each other and what our relationship is like. I thought I might be headed home alone, as the other couple could tell we don’t know each other well. Many couples prefer to swap with another established, firm couple, as that limits some kinds of jealousy, as well as some mate-poaching behavior. Alcohol and novelty won the day, however, and I split a hotel room with the other guy. Woman was pretty but not too special, late 20s/early 30s, and she and her man had clearly made the full swap decision ahead of time. The other guy wanted to make a sex tape (like me!), but she nixed it. All in the game. I did a really nice job railing her from behind and got into that zone where the sex is pleasurable but not so overwhelming as to make me finish early. The woman also didn’t tighten as much as some women do when they orgasm, so that let me keep going. High-performance nights are always nice.

The other guy had performance troubles, so I gave him a bit of substance to help, and about 45 minutes later he was ready to go. I told him that it’s common to seek certain aids in that situation, as it can be harder to perform in a group among novel participants than among basic one-on-one sex. Plus, just trying to put people at ease when they’re uncomfortable or anxious goes a long way to solving discomfort or anxiety. “It’s okay, don’t worry about it, it happens to everyone sometimes” are all magic words. Sort of like how players know that “It’s okay, you can leave any time you want to” often disarms LMR. I have sometimes stood up when I’m with a girl and moved away from her and said, “The door is right over there. I’m not forcing you to do anything you don’t want to do. You can walk out now or any time.” A little comfort is useful.

Overall a successful evening. Low-cut top girl was annoyed that I wouldn’t let her stay in the hotel. I needed to go home and told her needed to as well. She argued that I had already paid for the hotel, which was true, but I told her that I also needed to go home. I told her that if she wanted to stay she had to give them her credit card, which she wouldn’t do. Bit of an ugly scene. May have cued the other couple to make an independent play for her. I hope they do. Low-cut top girl is absolutely the sort of chick who’d clean out the mini-bar and order $500 in bullshit on my card. Doesn’t speak well of her, now that I read my own description of her. I need to find more compatible chicks. I would actually trust Ms. Slav not to do that kind of shit. She might do it inadvertently, because that’s what she does in expensive hotels.

This week, Low-cut top girl has been sending me a lot of messages (many of them I’m not replying to, in keeping my “once per day at most” texting and Internet distraction philosophy) but refusing to come over… that might be for the best. We’ve been on an accelerated timeline, so maybe from open to ending is going to occur in less time than usual. After our foursome that is surprising, even to me, but that foursome may have been a one-time thing. She samples the food, doesn’t care for it, is glad she tried it, moves on with her life.

Low-cut top girl also wants to know why I don’t take her out to dinner, which, along with music/concerts, has been a historical sore point and push-pull point for me and chicks. I told her to read The Millionaire Next Door (a great book, you should read it). I might give her a copy if I see her again, though she is the kind of girl who is going to yo-yo back and forth or just ghost me when she finds another dude. I have lower financial discipline than I did when I really had no money… I need to quit buying camera gear, which is a vice of mine… but I still have pretty decent financial disipline… and part of that is just not spending money on stupid shit like expensive dinners out. I like a lot of what are now called “fast casual” places… she apparently likes expensive sit-down places? I dunno, I can countenance those at work… I can deal with them rarely… a lot of the time I’d rather just have some falafel or a burrito bowl, plus extra cash in pocket. Real freedom is not having to worry about money.

Most restaurants are also just too damn noisy, and that’s terrible for social bonding or learning.

Mostly, though… it’s the money… and the number of people who are better to talk to, than a book is to be read… well… it’s not as high as I’d like. This girl also liked expensive restaurants, but she was kind of weird in public… she’d be fine in private, one-on-one, but didn’t interact well in public. It was like dating two different chicks, personality-wise. Oddly, that girl wants to get a drink w/ me… I have been meaning to do it.

I tweeted, “Building the mind is a lifelong project.” If you are not reading you are probably not learning as much as you can or should.

Ms. Slav, though… Ms. Slav is also discovering the downside of saying “yes” too much… she is stretched thin. I would phrase it as, she is giving away a lot of value… so everyone is coming out to grab some… and she needs to retract / guard her value a little better. Chicks would never frame something this way… but that is what I see. I told her about my growing discomfort with how I am living, and my desire to do something different. I think she gets it. Although she thinks I can do family AND do the life I have been living… it’s not impossible, just really f**king unlikely. One rule in game is to assume the median girl, at least until proven otherwise. Guys know that it’s POSSIBLE to be standing around at a regular party or whatever, and have some stunning 8 open you and then f**k her later that night. It’s also POSSIBLE for Tinder to work that way. It’s just super unlikely. You want to take high-percentage shots. In today’s NBA, that means threes or right next to the basket. It’s POSSIBLE to win with a lot of long twos… just not likely.

Guys who want to win, try to put themselves in the best position possible to win at whatever their game is. For a guy who wants to be in the game, that means moving to a city and not living in a rural area or an exurb. For a guy who wants a kid (or more kids), how I am living… is not the optimal way to go about that goal.

With Low-cut top girl, I feel like I am experiencing deja vu… she is new to me but is overall close to the typical female. So close that I feel like I’ve already seen everything she says or does. Ms. Slav is the exact opposite.