Krauser on Blackdragon

The post is quite funny, so go read it. I would guess that it’s about 30 – 50% true, 20 – 30% untrue, and 20 – 40% indicative of the mind, psychology, and beliefs of the writer, rather than telling us much about the person being written about… you might apply the same tripartite structure to my own writing.

  • To my eye, Blackdragon looks okay, maybe fine, in the pictures, though it’s hard to say how the pics would translate to real life. Anyone who has done some amount of photography knows pics can be deceiving. Could have good presence in real life that doesn’t come through.
  • Anyone I know who might be an “alpha male” never calls himself an “alpha male.”  If I ever call myself an “alpha male,” except in jest, please quit reading.
  • I missed that BD said a 37-year-old woman is “what most men would consider a 9 or 10 unless you don’t like blonde white women.” Few women are a 9 past age 25 or 26, let alone 30. Most 8s have dropped to 7 by 30. That is fine and, for long-term relationships, there is far more to be said for a chick than her absolute hotness level, but I don’t get the point of pretending a chick is something she’s not. I don’t see a lot of real-world 8s, period (obesity epidemic drags most chicks down), and fewer 9s. Lots of 7s, especially among chicks in their 20s, but not a huge number of true 8s. He says somewhere else that he likes older chicks, for some weird reason related to his life development. That’s fine but let’s not pretend older chicks are hotter. None of this is even controversial. Everyone has moments of suspect judgment, but there are also assertions that make an intelligent listener question everything else a speaker claims.
  • I also laughed at the Krauser post because some of the values expressed in the post  conflict with some of the values expressed elsewhere in his corpus.
  • But, despite caveats, I do think Blackdragon has at times a more realistic perspective on long-term relationships than many people. Almost no pickup guys talk about relationships (maybe they aren’t interested, maybe they lack underlying substance, maybe something else is going on). I don’t think I’ve read Krauser’s views on this subject… they might be out there, somewhere. He doesn’t seem tuned to, or to care about, long-term relationships. The game/pickup artist skillset and the long-term relationship skillset overlap, but there is a lot of non-overlap. It seems to me that doing pure pickup is exhausting, time consuming, and often impractical.
  • I doubt almost anyone, let alone BD, can make enough money in books, seminars, etc. to make the attempt worthwhile. I’m skeptical of the “make money online!” guys. None of them ever seems to post audited financial statements or tax returns… I wonder why. BD is one of those guys and it makes him come off as scummy or a scammer, and someone who doesn’t have the supposed business success he claims to have. There’s no real evidence of his business success or acumen, that I’ve seen. If it’s out there please let me know. Online, anyone can claim to be anyone.
  • It’s weird and incongruent for Krauser to be interested in truthfulness and reality while at the same time admiring one of the greatest grifters in U.S. history.
  • (I added this after the initial post):  Krauser links to an amazing video BD posted, apparently with… pride? Somehow? I mean, if he wants to be with an older woman, fine, the top women for long-term relationships may differ from the top women for sex, but… look at and listen to the guy, and make up your own mind. He posts this video as an apparent brag. It’s not something I’d be bragging about, personally.

So, BD married a 31-year-old woman, who had a half-black kid, when BD was 25. A funny (? sad might be a better word…) story: years ago, around the time I transitioning out of seeing the girl I call Libido Girl and around the time I started seeing #2, I met this chick online, late 20s, who already had a kid but was wise enough not to emphasize it online. Although her profile talked about needing commitment, etc., she was a pretty straightforward lay.

During the first date itself, I only remember her banging on about commitment and me saying, somewhat truthfully, that no man in his right mind will consider commitment w/ a woman unless/until he knows about sexual compatibility. Not the best argument or best game but one I’ve made before and good enough for her to tumble into bed. She oozed sexual energy that conflicted with the words coming out of her mouth. Low 7, low effort, she seemed to be strongly conflicted, I slept with her like once a week for a while and brought her to one sex club, I think. I didn’t see pics of her kid until later on… she was smart about that. She said she needed commitment and I told her, pretty honestly, that I didn’t see her as a good long-term match. She was bitter about that and said all guys are full of shit, etc.

I said something whose underlying meaning was like, “Look at it from a guy’s perspective. When a guy sees your kid, what does that communicate to him about you?” Among other things it communicates 1. Dubious if not bad judgment. 2. Low conscientiousness. 3. Ignorance (failure to deploy standard-issue birth control). 4. Poor decision-making skills. I didn’t say so in those exact words, but it’s pretty obvious. She told me I’m a racist… maybe it’s true, I don’t know, for what it’s worth I’ve not wifed up any women, let alone one with another guy’s kid, and I can’t imagine calling a guy a racist is going to make him go, “Okay, you’re right, let’s get married, and I’ll adopt your son.” A guy who sees a woman make the choices she did, is going to respond appropriately. She should’ve been looking for older guys.

Somewhere in our brief fling she tried to explain why the baby daddy was a bad guy, etc. (then why were you with him…?) and, whatever her situation was, I said something non-judgmental like, “It doesn’t matter and you don’t need to explain to me.” Things she seemed to find heartening at the time… they were true, because how she came to her situation wasn’t important to me in evaluating her for sex, and her situation communicated more than enough of her character for me to bin her correctly. I wanted to f**k her and she was very sexual and good in bed. In retrospect I should’ve let her go find her provider guy, who wasn’t going to be me, but she also gave off “I’m looking for sex” vibes. Probably an excuse on my part. She would’ve found some other guy like me, who would lie by omission to her. But then it wouldn’t have been me.

Women who want to do better with men, have to understand men and what men want… men who want to do better with women, have to understand women and what women want. Without doing that, a guy is unlikely to go as far as he should.

Our culture is superficially permissive and accepting, but in reality, when confronted with individual self-interest, most people make the smart choice. That is why “Fat acceptance” will never happen in the places it matters. People who really buy into the bullshit will typically suffer when they hit the real world. There is a superficial level of argument and discourse, which dominates, and there is a real-world level of discourse.

It’s also important to remember that guys who are interested in red pill and pickup are disproportionately failures with women, or have been burned by being with the wrong woman. Guys who get the best women, who want families and have families, and who are with women who want the same… they are not spending time talking about red pill and seduction. They are out building themselves, their families, and civilization. The current marriage-divorce system discourages this kind of thing, but people still do it, just like there were players before reliable birth control and antibiotics to deal with most STIs.

Ecosystems and clubs

Haven’t been able to find enough appealing books to read lately… I’ve been on a run of badly written SF novels that I don’t complete because I feel like I’ve already read them and, worse, the writer is a worse writer than I am. So I picked up the Nick Krauser book A Deplorable Cad. This section, about “Beckster” (Robert Beck) reminds me of something similar but adjacent to what I do:

He’d read the old Alt-Seduction forum then go out in-field to nightclubs to try it out. After two years of what were, by his own admission, “hard work and brutal lack of success,” he cracked it and became a good player . . .

His major ruse was to set himself up as a club promoter and then go out in the street, handing out cards to hot girls and getting their numbers.

From there, Beckster would invite chicks to the club. The chicks “would experience Rob as the king of the club who knew everybody and was treated with respect by the staff,” because club promoters can get paid to bring in chicks. He’d then find other players and wannabe players and get them to bring in chicks. On top of that, “Rob put yet another layer . . . which not only made his pulling easier but also greatly enhanced the perception of his cold-approach pick-up skills in front of the students who’d paid him a fortune in coaching fees.” By being the boss of a bunch of chicks, other chicks would see him as high value… then he’d go around to pick up the other chicks in the club. Then multiple chicks would “all compete against each other to vie for his attention.”

An interesting strategy. I admire it, though it’s not for me because I dislike clubs. The only other person I’ve read who seems to have a good read on clubs is Good Looking Loser, who writes “An Introduction and Major Misconception about Party ‘Club’ Game (The Scene – Hollywood, USA):”

Groups of people meet at a designated house to “mingle”, drink and do drugs – 1 or 2 hours before going to a nightclub. (pre-party)

These groups of people take as few cars/taxis (or limousines) to go to a nightclub where they have ALREADY BEEN PUT ON A VIP/GUEST LIST by the nightclub promoter that they ALREADY KNOW. (enter club)

They get in for free, have a COMPLIMENTARY table and access to a significant amount of FREE alcohol that their promotor has reversed for them. (club)

At some point in the night, usually just after that the alcohol runs out and/or girls dance for 90 minutes, the group will leave to a PRE-PLANNED AFTER-PARTY which is usually, but not always, at the pre-party house. (exit club)

Most solo guys or small groups of guys are never going to break off one of those chicks. The marketing job of the club, however, is to convince guys that, with enough money spent, that might happen. I personally would prefer honest prostitution to this kind of slight-of-hand, but there must be enough guys to bite the bait to keep the industry going.

Krauser does not like this form of game either:

This is known as Entourage Game, and Beckster invented the modern version of it. It’s pretty much the opposite of what I do. He builds an elaborate structure based on many moving parts that elevates him to a position of situational high status in an environment where girls go to party. I roam solo on city streets picking off girls who know nothing except what I convey in one-to-one conversation.

Krauser also has another friend, Mick, who is also not like me:

He enjoys chatting to strangers for the sake of it, whereas I hate it. He’ll start up conversations no matter where he is – to a supermarket cashier, a barber, his car mechanic. In contrast, I’ll say the minimum necessary to be polite. That’s how his style developed, and it makes him excellent at bar game because he doesn’t view all of this chat as work.

I am somewhere between Krauser and Mick, but I view most random chat as closer to work than pleasure, which is why I don’t much like working the bars. I have done it before, sometimes somewhat successfully, but usually in semi-warm atmospheres (e.g. after a work conference meet up, that kind of thing).

I also don’t like normal clubs, but I am somewhat like Beckster in that I discovered, or was initiated into, a kind of workaround, in my case through sex parties and sex clubs, where everyone has been pre-filtered for interest. The upsides I have written about quite a bit. There are some downsides to what I do:

  1. Many people, even when they know intellectually that they are not monogamous, do not want to see their friend or partner banging another person.
  2. If a guy is hunting the hottest girls, the ones who are 8+, he is not likely to find them. I have seen some, but they are rare and in high demand. If a guy brings high 7s and 8+ girls, however, he will be the king of his local scene (I have played this game very successfully).
  3. A guy still needs to find a compatible chick. This version of lifestyle or ecosystem must be layered onto existing game for it to work.
  4. A guy will be evaluated very directly based on his body and sex skills. If either are lacking, everyone will know it because everyone will see the guy nude and fucking. Because (almost) everyone gets naked and has sex at these clubs and parties, I have an unusual amount of experience in evaluating how chicks look clothed and unclothed. Many chicks who seem one way clothed turn out another way when not.
  5. Doing it well takes some amount of work. There are no shortcuts.

The main advantage to what I do is volume, sustainability, and of course many people have group sex fantasies… unlike most people, however, I live them out. Consensual non-monogamy also helps me retain chicks who would otherwise want to know, “Where is this going?” I find these trade-offs to be worthwhile (you may not), and what I am doing is not totally unlike what Beckster is/was doing. Sex clubs also seem to have become more popular/normalized in the last five years. Ten years ago they were much weirder and underground. Most recently, girls are likely to have already thought about them and consensual non-monogamy… I think the cultural conditions have changed.

Another advantage: I am satisfying many chicks’ fantasies, which they will never satisfy on their own, because they are chicks and most chicks need to be led most of the time. Most chicks are not self-motivated or self-starters, so they need a guy to activate their sex drives. Some chicks are exceptional in this regard but most are not. Many guys get annoyed with the female propensity to talk and not do… I used to get annoyed. Now I realize it’s their nature, and to get annoyed about a hummingbird for being a hummingbird is irrational.

Another thing, neither good nor bad: I tend to get and retain sexually adventurous chicks. Guys who have a thing for inexperienced chicks or virgins, will not find them at the sex clubs, but that’s fine with me. Note that many sexually adventurous chicks still present as “classy,” if you like that sort of presentation. And many chicks who present as trashy are still hard to get in bed, based on my experiences. Just like guys who dislike game say that game guys are only getting “bad” or “damaged” girls, guys who think that every sexually adventurous girl looks like a gutter rat will be surprised.

I like reading about other guys’s systems. I draw from a couple ecosystems (I have not written about everything I do), so I am somewhat unlike the game guys who hit new cities and begin cold approaching. But the Krauser and Tom Torero books are the most complete descriptions of cold-approach daygame I have ever read, rivaled only by some of the original Neil Strauss and Mystery books. It is surprising to me that no one else has produced comparably detailed works. Maybe writing a book takes a lot of energy for little reward, apart from the ego reward. The majority of guys out there learning how to be a player would be well-served to quit hunting for kernels of utility online and read the Krauser books.

I feel like I am still learning from the daygamers, and their knowledge is deep and detailed. I don’t do a lot of cold-approach daygame, so they are not likely as “useful” to me as they will be to other guys who are learning to chase tail, but they are well-written and informative. The book written by an obvious expert in his field is often interesting to me, even if I am not directly in the field… I see the world differently after I read them. I like Nassim Taleb, though I don’t wish to be a Wall Street trader, as he was. The Krauser and Torero books are written by experts. The most annoying part of the Krauser books is the fact that they are not readily available digitally… it seems digitized versions can be found online, but I would prefer to just click the Amazon button and be done with it. Life is too valuable to be scrimping over a $20 book. Most of the Torero books seem to be on Amazon Kindle, which I appreciate.

If there are comparable books that I’m missing, please let me know in the comments. If you are an experienced game guy, think about writing a book.

One other thing I forgot to add: Krauser says, “This was a period when I was getting to meet all the ‘name’ PUAs in London and while they all had something I could learn from, I was struck by how strange they all were. It was like a little boy’s club. Our house of cads in Hampstead looked sane in comparison.” Most guys writing about the game seem weird/off/messed up… I’m guessing that I come off as more normal than most hard-core PUAs, albeit cerebral or nerdy if I let those parts of myself peak out. When I find a pretty girl who likes to read and isn’t a twit, I get very excited. Most pretty girls who like to read are looking for a guy who isn’t a stereotypical nerd but who isn’t a frat-boy jock. Pretty girls who like to think and read (few people do one without the other) have dating problems similar to mine. So when we find each other, it can be beautiful. I am much smarter than most good-looking gym guys (I am not so good looking but I do all right… nowhere near good looking enough to make the game easy) and I am much better looking than most nerdy readers, programmers, or engineers. Ms. Slav and I connect well because she’s an extremely pretty girl who is also smart, and so her and I match immediately.

I can do well with basic chicks age 25+ who are starting to think about longer-term things, but if they are kind of dumb I get tired of them after a couple months of sex. They often become too much like having another kid around, which I don’t need in supposedly adult women.

Overall, I think I am more normal than the hardest-core PUAs, but considerably less normal than the average person.

“I was also wondering if I really wanted to stay in the Game”

I am reading the Krauser book A Deplorable Cad, and about midway he drops,

As winter approached I’d run out of steam for game. London was boring me, and my mojo was depleted. I was also wondering if I really wanted to stay in the Game. The happiest times in the year had been hanging out with Docile and then going on holiday to Barcelona with her and Gita. I’d also felt strangely at peace when sitting in cafes with Zaria just chatting and watching her read.

This book is the second or third out of four, and it’s only halfway done, so the reader knows that Krauser does not run out of steam for game. But I identify with his feeling because it’s another way of stating my feelings in “Ramblings about a change in perspective towards game and life.” Granted that I’m older than he was at the time described in the book and also that I have never been remotely as obsessed with game as he and his colleagues were or are. But there can be a kind of hollow void, I think, from relentlessly picking up strangers, many of whom are in turn using your tool to deal with some kind of void or psychological problem in their own lives.

“Many of whom,” not all of whom, mind. Lots of psychologically healthy girls like casual and not-so-casual sex as well.

I’m still committed to not marrying, but I wonder if one day I will soften to the idea of cohabitating with a woman again. It would be very hard to find a woman whose values and lifestyles mesh sufficiently with mine, but I don’t think it’d be impossible either.

She’d also have to be close enough to me in age. Realistically a man as old as I am cannot build a long-term life with any woman younger than her late 20s. It just won’t work if she’s younger. That much I know. It is always funny when you worry about using a girl for sex only to discover she is. . . using you for sex!

I should not be thinking too long-term right now. The date with the bike girl went very simply and very well. Before the date I did (or attempted) four warmup sets and got harsh blowouts from all of them. A very strange run, but then bike girl herself liked me a lot from the get go. She is more shy and introspective than she first seemed, when I think the riding had raised her spirits and also mine. But so far everything seems to be going well. She is also too young to make long long-term work. But I am enjoying the moment and am not going to complain when the right girl at the right time falls into the lap.

I will write more about A Deplorable Cad when I finish, but I judge that I am either less psychologically damaged than most of the game-obsessives or I am more delusional about psychological damage. Only the self-deluded believe they are beyond self-delusion. I still think I’m closer to normal than many of the characters in the book or who write game books of their own.

What happens to guys regarding kids? It is still fascinating to see the people who have gone all the way. They make different tradeoffs than me.

Krauser emphasizes how real game forces a man to confront his own psychological demons, and I agree totally. Self-understanding is so hard and lacking it will often destroy even a man who works hard.