Non-monogamy and the game: book update

The book about non-monogamy, sex clubs, and game is now about 41,000 words, up from about 31,000 words in the first completed draft. Three or four guys have read it and returned it with feedback… if you are one of those guys, thank you. I still don’t have a good title for it and may default to “Sex clubs and non-monogamy for players” or a similar title. The title may be too direct but the book is trying to demystify things, much as players demystify the dating market.

I’ve been looking around for anyone who wants to make a cover image. One beta reader suggested I put the cover image and layout jobs on Upwork. I’m reluctant to plow money into a free book, even small amounts of money, but maybe that is worth doing.

I’m going to publish the book under the Creative Commons 4.0 Attribution license. Anyone who wants to distribute the book can do so as long as they acknowledge this website and “The Red Quest” as the original writer. Because I’m likely to quit the community at some point, I want to give the book a license that will make it easy to copy and remix in perpetuity. Maybe someone will make a nice physical edition of it.

Right now, I still haven’t found anyone who has written on this subject at the level of depth and knowledge that I’m writing at. I’m sure some guys have discovered what I’ve discovered through trial and error, but it’s exciting to be the first person to discuss a topic in detail.

Finishing the book and making comprehensive edits has sucked up far too much time, but at this point I’m determined to see it through and produce a book that is novel, useful, and accurate.

I also think monogamy is dying. In response to some observations by the beta readers, I have added this to the conclusion:

In my view, monogamy is also failing due to the prevalence of Facebook, smartphones, and other technologies that make it far too easy to surreptitiously hook up with exes. When a woman has been with a man for a couple years and is going through a tough or boring period with him, she can easily start a Facebook chat with her old boyfriends or crushes. The very low friction required for women to begin an affair today is corrosive to conventional relationships. For most women, social media is like crack, and most women lack the willpower to say “no.” This world of easy sex-on-demand is revealing all the cracks in the facade of monogamy. Social media is revealing the many problems with elite institutions, a topic dealt with in The Revolt of the Public by Martin Gurri—a book players should read, though it is not directly applicable to the game.

Social media weakens existing relationships, increases non-monogamy, and also makes it easier to discover cheating. In this environment, consensual non-monogamy makes more sense than ever. Many guys fantasize about a monogamous relationship with a woman, but they fail to realize that few women will remain in a long-term monogamous relationship with them. We’re only just now coming to terms with the way social media tears apart relationships of all kinds. But as old relationships and bonds dissolve, new ones will take their place. What will those look like? What should those look like?

As we learn about why and how monogamy doesn’t work, we also have to ask what comes after monogamy. This book is a partial answer to that question, although I haven’t framed it as such until now.

By now, people are recognizing that social media is changing almost everything about social and political dynamics in our society. How thoroughly these dynamics have been and are being changed is still not widely appreciated. When a woman has infinite, on-demand access to her exes at will, monogamy is not going to endure. Even many players haven’t fully understood these implications yet.

But don’t fear, the bulk of the book is “how to” and “how to do this” rather than being jerk-off philosophizing.

It’s conceivable I’ll publish the book within a week or two of today, depending on how quickly other beta readers get back to me. I thought the book would be shorter than it has been and I thought it would take me less time to put it together, but many questions and observations have revealed missing segments that I’ve been trying to fill. I can’t make any timeline promises because this is a totally peer-to-peer process. I’m not going to charge for the book and am not paying anyone reading it, so paid work takes priority.

Priorities and Ms. Slav’s challenges in non-monogamy

Yesterday I did something new: I prioritized Peaches over Ms. Slav for sex. Ms. Slav has a somewhat difficult schedule, as do I, but she has been, or become, less reliable than I would like. I was tentatively supposed to see her for a nooner tomorrow… but Peaches was available, and I was more confident she would show up, and we’ve been having sex without condoms, and Ms. Slav has been becoming less reliable, so I picked Peaches.

The sex was great. I love mid-day hotel sex. It’s so dirty. Everyone else is at work, and I’m in a woman, doing the thing that everyone else really wants to do.

Ms. Slav is getting a lesson in sexual marketplace values, I think, as well as her own difficulties. She has met a series of people (men, women, and couples) who she has liked. One couple pulled away from her when she started dating another couple whom the first couple had had a falling out with. Another couple, led by a guy, tried to make her their “girlfriend” after like one sex date. She was flakey with him, then he had a blowup at a party or event or something (I’m slightly hazy on the details myself). Guys keep adding her on Facebook, and she indulges them, in a way she should not. I think she should protect her value (I have implied that without using those words), but she is not doing that.

I think she believed the non-monogamy scene would be filled with people who aren’t placing limits or bonds on each other, and who don’t feel jealousy, as Ms. Slav says she doesn’t. She has found some people like that. But she has found guys who are trying to take her, make her theirs, and control her sexuality… just like in the regular, monogamous world, just to a different degree.

She doesn’t appreciate how desperately most guys desire young hot girls. There are just not that many really hot 18 – 22 year old girls in the scene. In anywhere except universities. When a young hot sexually explorative girl shows up, all the sharks rise, like throwing fresh meat into the water. I think Ms. Slav doesn’t quite understand her own value. That makes sense, because I have seen some of the not-hot girls she’s dated. She is less focused on the appearance of her partners than almost any other hot girl I’ve ever met. Most girls who are “pansexual” still aim for the hotter guys and girls. Ms. Slav doesn’t do that. Very unusual. I know the Internet is full of guys saying, “This girl is different,” but she is different. Ms. Slav can have sex with any straight man she wants. Guys do not experience the same with straight women.

At the same time, though, she wants someone like a “primary partner,” to use the lingo of the scene. Most people in the scene don’t want totally anonymous, random sex all the time. They want a boyfriend/girlfriend-type person who is not sexually exclusive, but who does form a team, for lack of a better term. More on this later. As part of a team, each member has to put each other first. Guys want this an as a way of getting into parties and getting new girls by exchange with other couples. Girls want this for emotional reasons, and it’s also a defense against predation (guys are less likely to try to coerce or heavily persuade girls with boyfriends).

Ms. Slav was also invited by a guy to a party, then invited me, then we had sex, then the other guy tried to say she was his date (she didn’t think so), then he was like, “Don’t interfere with my date!” and I was like “I have nothing to say to you, buddy,” and we ended up leaving. Weird, as he is good-looking but turned out to be quite pathetic. I know him tangentially. Rich guy, a trust-fund kid maybe, although he is not a kid anymore. I thought he wouldn’t be so desperate, but he was… he must have no game (that is my most probable diagnosis). Maybe he is so good looking that he is not used to having girls say no. Strangely, very attractive people can take rejection worse than people who are used to rejection. He is better looking than me, to most chicks… not all, but most. Pretty-boy looks. He found Ms. Slav on Facebook then invited her to an event… which she invited me to… and once there I found out about the arrangement. Annoying. Even I feel some amount of possession and jealousy. Or, more likely, I want to see fair value exchanged for fair value. Ms. Slav bollixes up that equation by her sheer love of f**king.

Oh, and there is yet another guy she liked but who has pulled back from her for unknown reasons. He hasn’t quite ghosted her, but I think he has de-prioritized her. He has a good setup… he probably doesn’t need a primary relationship with Ms. Slav. She’s surprised by that, I suspect.

Ms. Slav has now found that, when she meets new people and especially guys in the scene, they do one of two things: they try to “date” (monopolize) her, or they have sex with her for a while, then go find another random for sex. She wants someone in between and is not finding them, because finding someone who wants to let her go f**k like wild and let the guy pick up whatever sex he can is probably not going to happen. She is also a high IQ person, and the average person bores her (apart from sex). High IQ, but inexperienced. I have figured out a lot of stuff Ms. Slav hasn’t yet figured out. She probably will, eventually, but I’m not like other guys she’s met. No one else has tried to bring her into the sex-positive scene.

I have seen a few chicks in the scene get into a scenario like Ms. Slav’s, where they are so sexually open that they cannot find a primary partner. Those chicks find all the casual sex they want but then are unhappy when the guys won’t become the chick’s primary partner and won’t even take them to dinner. Seriously, I’ve heard this complaint a couple times over the years: “Guys want to hit me up for 9pm sex, but why can’t we at least go out for dinner first?” Or, “I want to do other things than just have sex, then the guy leaves because he has to get up in the morning.” There is no point in explaining evolutionary biology or fundamental value to these girls because those ideas will just offend women, even as they feel the effects of evolutionary biology and value at work in their lives and relationships.

Hearing Ms. Slav’s story also clarifies to me why I do so well. I have the ability to meet and seduce new chicks, then bring them into parties: most guys can’t or won’t do that. My game is not as tight as some guys’s game, but it is sufficient for me to have a “reputation” as the guy who brings in new chicks. The good-looking guy I mentioned before ought to have life on easy mode in this respect, but the bitch came right out of him when he didn’t get the things he wanted. For me, if one chick falters, I find another one and don’t complain about it. I don’t want to claim I’m a total stoic. I’m not. I get annoyed, I get hurt, internally I get annoyed with badly behaved chicks. But it’s also axiomatic that you can’t beat the market. That is obvious in financial markets, where people who attempt to beat the market usually end up bankrupt. People who attempt to “beat” the dating market may get some lays they “shouldn’t” have but tend to end up alone and disconnected.

There is always a shortage of young hot girls. Every straight many desires them. Many young hot girls do not fully appreciate their powers until the powers wane. There are also girls who, when young enough, are just a little bit heavier than I prefer, but they haven’t yet stacked on the pounds that will make them unacceptable to me.

Some guys will no doubt say that I shouldn’t have brought Ms. Slav into the community in the first place. But here’s the thing: with her, it wouldn’t have mattered. She is not going to be monogamous, no matter what. She has always had short-term relationships or cheated on her boy- or girlfriends. Some people virtually cannot be monogamous, and Ms. Slav is one of them… all I have done is given her an intellectual framework and community.

She doesn’t prioritize me sufficiently, or to the extent I would like, which is an unusual position for me to be in. Typically, women say they feel I am too interested in sex with other women and not devoted enough to the primary relationship. Now I’ve found someone who is doing to me, what I have arguably done to others. I think I’m hurt, or showing some signs of inner turmoil, because I’m accustomed to being in the power position in the relationship. I’m accustomed to being the one who is too much for the woman to handle. Now I see some bad signs of the sort I am used to giving to others, but in Ms. Slav, doing them to me. I have begun to de-prioritize her, as she has, I think, been doing, somewhat, to me. It may be unconscious in her, as she is genuinely not like normal chicks, or even like normal people, and she has long been estranged from most of her natural community and affinity group(s).

Most guys find sexually indiscriminate women unattractive for anything more than extremely casual, no-strings sex. I am among those guys, despite what I have written here, because even within the non-monogamy community, most people still exercise careful discretion. Those who don’t, have problems like Ms. Slav’s (if they are female and attractive) and will be expelled from it (if they are male and do not bring value back into the community).

I can’t remember if I said this, but I got her friend who is from her home country, and the friend is very hot, so that is very nice.

A chick like Ms. Slav is amazing for the sheer number of sexual opportunities she opens up, but I’m not sure that is what I’m seeking right now. Most couples in the scene form a team. If they are not a team and fundamentally devoted to one another, they fall apart. Yes, I know that most anger-phase Red Pill guys will say it’s all the fault of the evil woman for defecting, but often it is the fault of the man for de-prioritizing the woman. To do this successfully demands a lot of social, emotional, and sexual intelligence, which most people just don’t have.

Ms. Slav also gets attention wherever I bring her. I mentioned taking her to Thanksgiving. I have also brought her to yoga with me a couple times. There is a woman there, probably in her early 30s and okay, who has been flirting with me. This is unusual for me, as yoga classes and gyms have not been productive places for me and I rarely hit on women in those environments… I go back to the primary yoga studio and gym over and over again and do not wish to poison the waters. Anyway, I hadn’t mentioned Ms. Slav to her… and now she’s seen Ms. Slav… and she had a barrage of questions about Ms. Slav. I admitted to the woman at the yoga studio, “Ms. Slav is too young for anything serious, but I like her.” Which is true, but appropriately vague. Women love vague, and that’s why so few women become engineers. The yoga studio has surprisingly few hot chicks in it. Every yoga apparel company advertises with mid-20s hardbodies, but the reality has been somewhat different, in my experience. Yoga also doesn’t make up for sugar intake.

I have been emphasizing that non-monogamy is hard, although it is hard in a different way than game itself.

I travel some for work and Ms. Slav is out at events, almost every weekend, and I know what that means. She has zoomed past me in terms of wanting to go to events. She wants to go to a lot of events, and now that she’s well-known she gets invited to literally everything going on in my city.

I may shift away from Ms. Slav and towards choosing her for couple-to-couple dates. Her love of f**king and lack of filter makes her well-suited to that role. But those same qualities make her ill-suited to being a primary partner or girlfriend, as she is finding out.

“Modern Love: Talking to My Fiancé About My New Girlfriend”

Modern Love: Talking to My Fiancé About My New Girlfriend” is very blue pill, as the guy in question should NOT marry that woman unless she makes substantially more money than he does. But I don’t know him and can’t say whether he is doing non monogamy from the inferior or superior position. He may be a guy with good game who uses non-monogamy as a retention tool, in which case, good for him. Or he could be a guy who knows he’ll lose this chick if he doesn’t acquiesce, in which case he deserves the opprobrium naive Red Pill guys throw.

I don’t know which he is and don’t see enough in that article to gauge his situation.

That so many articles like this one appear in the mainstream media is an argument that verbalizing nonmonogamy right up front could be a viable strategy.

Non-monogamy is NOT for everyone

Notice that, in my work on non-monogamy and players, I have never said (and will never say) that “non-monogamy is for everyone” or “group sex is great for everyone.” It’s not and it’s not.

I am saying, however, that given how most players like sexual novelty and variety, and most women in uncommitted relationships are going to be fucking around anyway, a guy should think about some of these strategies as a way of achieving better output for less work while also retaining the girl better.

It’s also surprising to me that more players haven’t figured this out. Maybe I’m lazier than some players and like having some of the filtering work done for me, in advance.

Some players are driven by the ego-based thrill of accomplishment, which is also fine, and that ego-thrill makes them chase one-night stands.

One other intersting thing: in couple-to-couple dating online, it is very useful to have an array of sex pics and short videos available. They’re a system of “proof” of sorts. In normal online dating, sending a single chick a sex pic or video will immediately end the interaction. In couple-to-couple dating, it is more common and gets closer to “proof” that the guy is desired by other women. I do this part very well. There are single guys who are just seeking dirty pics, so they have to be avoided, but the picture-proof is there.

The second open-relationship, non-monogamy girl

A few months ago I wrote about Libido Girl, who opened me up to consensual non-monogamy and the sex club world. With and without her, I probably had sex with 15 – 20 women in the first year we were together. Most weekends we’d go to sex clubs or parties. Sometimes we’d go on dates with other couples. That 15 – 20 number could have been much higher, but we found a core group of 10 – 14 girls and couples we’d see pretty regularly. Just like with regular dating, every person has a finite amount of time and energy. It’s often hard to find the best chicks online because the best chicks, who know what they want and compromise well, get a boyfriend and disappear. They might appear online after breakups or when they move to a new area, but there is a distinct “market for lemons” problem that has become more severe in recent years (in my view).

Libido Girl and I basically maxed out our potential social calendar. We went more than I would naturally. She likely had more action that year than I did, simply because she had the energy and endurance. Towards the end we drifted more apart, which is a hazard of a lot of sex with a lot of different people. Her job situation was not ideal, and solving it involved her moving. Even before she moved, I began doing some online dating. This was in the mid to late 2000s, when online dating worked better (in my view) and chicks were not yet glued to their smartphones. I did well at online dating and upped my photography skills considerably and quickly. I’m also a better writer than most guys and often attract girls who appreciate that.

Flaking and other bad behavior was common then, as it is now, but I went on dates and figured out quickly that I wanted to sleep with a woman a couple of times, then try and get her to go to sex clubs with me. A few of those chicks met Libido Girl. I took one very young, wild, hot, and stupid/flighty girl to a club and she must have fucked half a dozen guys there, of her own volition, then basically ghosted me the next week. Which was fine with me, because it’s important for a pair who go to the sex club to operate as a team; if a girl won’t be a member of the team, she is not a good candidate (another potential subject for a post).

The next girl, let’s call her #2, was not as crazily libidinous as Libido Girl, but she liked sex and was pretty uninhibited about it. She was much less forward and in personality terms she was feminine and giggly. She had nice energy and was another solid 7 or so. She didn’t lead in most things but was happy to follow. She was also very positive, which is good for me, but she did like experimenting with other girls and had a very open mind. I think she was somewhat bored with conventional dating and was 26 when I met her: old enough to have some experience but not yet desperate for kids. As Libido Girl left, Girl #2 moved into her place, and I more or less absorbed her into the friend groups Libido Girl and I had formed. #2 never got into going to the gym with me, but she was young and had good enough genetics for that not to matter at the time.

#2 and I essentially repeated the Libido Girl process: for a year and a couple months we had lots of sex with each other and went to parties and clubs two – three times a month. I probably slept with another 15 – 20 girls during that period. Guys with low partner counts are endlessly interested in numbers, and guys with high partner counts don’t care, and by the time Libido Girl and I were halfway through our partnership I stopped caring about counts, to the extent I ever did. I had figured out how to integrate non-monogamy into my life. Some women ran away from that, but many did not. When a guy truly has “abundance mentality,” getting new women can become easy. I learned it then, or fully internalized it.

Not all the women I slept with were incredibly hot, but none were dogs and all met my own internal quality standards. It was common for couples who were unacceptable to hit on #2 (and me), but we were good at politely turning them down.

By now many of the individual parties and club nights have faded into a blur. I know some people keep records of who they did and so on, but I’m not one of them and prefer to exist in the moment.

The most notable thing about #2 was, to me, how easily she slid into the scene. I have written before that most of my favorite girls didn’t require that much “game” or persuasion. #2 was like that. She was ready to find what I offered her. Things came to end when she wanted to move in with me and get more serious. Which I did not want. At all. Finding the sex-positive and non-monogamous worlds felt like unlocking a superpower.

If I found a girl like #2 today, I might be more susceptible to her arguments and desires. At the time, it felt like the whole world was sexually open to me, in a way that I almost got when I was in college and immediately after, but my skills and mindset hadn’t yet come together properly.

Jealousy and non-monogamy

In response to “Feedback request: What do you want to see in a book about non-monogamy and players?“, Nash asks about jealousy.

I would be interested in jealousy. I’d like to hear not only “it can be avoided,” but some EXAMPLES of how it has come up, show both sides, and then your best practices, some case studies of how you’ve managed that in YOURSELF and the GIRLS.

Jealousy… I don’t think it can be wholly avoided, for most guys. It’s like pain in the gym. You’re going to feel it sometimes. Most guys, including me, don’t like to see other guys railing their chick, even if the guy and chick are dating casually. In my view, some amount of jealousy, however small, can come up when a guy is in a situation where he’s going to nail another chick and his chick is going to get nailed by another guy.

Jealousy is adaptive because jealous guys have, historically, been more likely to ensure that a chick is bearing his child and not some other guy’s. The vast, overwhelming majority of human existence (99.9999%) occurred before reliable contraceptives and DNA tests. We are not going to overcome our evolved instincts to do “mate guarding” (the term evolutionary biologists use). Not perfectly. This excerpt, from The Ape That Understood the Universe: How the Mind and Culture Evolve, further describes jealousy from an evolutionary perspective:

Throughout the course of our evolution, any trait that increased the chances that a man would end up investing in his own offspring, rather than the offspring of his good-looking next-door-neighbour, had a good chance of being selected. One such trait was jealousy – the kind of jealousy that would lead a man to keep a wary eye on his partner and the good-looking neighbour, and to do what he could to keep them apart.

For most guys, jealousy can’t be avoided. So if a guy wants to go down this path, he has to know that some amount of jealousy is probably coming and be psychologically prepared to experience it, before it happens. A guy can rationally understand that he’s doing a quid pro quo: he’s going to get his, so she’s going to get hers. This helps, but the jealous response is more emotional than rational. It is very hard to overcome emotional response through rational thoughts, but it can be done and for many guys must be done.

If a guy is in a casual relationship, he knows (intellectually) that the girl is probably sleeping with other dudes. How big a jump is it from knowing that intuitively to seeing it happen in front of you? A big one, emotionally, but a small one, intellectually, particularly if the guy is busy with another chick.

In addition, I deal with jealousy by focusing on the other chick. I wrote that Libido Girl, who properly introduced me to this world, made sure that I was having sex with another girl before she had sex with another guy. Smart girl. It is hard to get that angry while you are deep in another girl. She did check in with me after all four of us were done having sex, to see how I felt, and again later that night, and again the next morning. She was helping me to emotionally process what had happened.

Now I do something similar with most girls I’m introducing. I encourage them to go first, or for us to go concurrently. Often, we don’t have sex with other people on the first night we go to a club. I try to get them involved somewhat gradually, unless they are very gung ho, like Ms. Slav was.

Jealousy can be better overcome when you (the man) and your date agree to only bang other chicks together, or to only do a couple-to-couple swap. You don’t want her entering a threeway with another couple on her own volition. Problems often happen when another couple appears ready to swap, but then the other chick doesn’t want to do it. That way lies problems. A guy’s date must be willing to call off the sex, and both people in a couple have to look out for each other. If the other couple is not committed to equal swapping, the whole thing must stop. If the other guy is into it and his date is not, it all must stop. I have done this before. It’s like throwing the emergency brake.

Jealousy goes away over time, or a guy becomes acclimated to it. The first time a guy brings a date to his party, jealousy may be overwhelming. But as one becomes acclimated, it decreases. If someone is desperately scared of flying, a psychologist won’t get her on a plane right away. A psychologist will gradually ramp her up (first he’ll have her in a plane-like dwelling, then talk to her about it, etc.). Jealousy can be the same way. Now it’s normal for me to have sex in groups or trade couple-to-couple, so much of the jealous response is gone.

The other way I see people deal with jealousy is, realistically, boredom. Many couples have been together so long that they aren’t that sexually hot for each other anymore. For those guys, jealousy can be a bit useful, because it might make him want to “compete” for the woman he’s tired of listening to every day. Couples who have been together so long that they’re bored may feel less jealousy and, when they do feel jealousy, it may help them.

Another word about swapping: Guys who don’t want their chick to bang other guys are in for likely problems. If the chick is bisexual, she may be okay with seeking another woman, but other single women are called “unicorns” for a reason. This path is not impossible but it is also the route of much drama and nonsense. I’m not going to speak to it here because the reader can search for “unicorns and swingers” or “how do I find a unicorn” and read the endless shit written about this overdone topic.

To summarize, I don’t think there’s a single cure for jealousy because jealousy is evolutionarily adaptive. Jealousy can be overcome, but it can only be overcome by applying rational thinking to an emotional sphere, which has its own problems (I’m aware of them). It can also be overcome by the guy focusing on his own experiences: when you’re in another chick, who has the energy to feel jealous? These methods are imperfect and there is no final “right” answer. That is why everyone discussing swinging, open relationships, and polyamory online discusses jealousy. If there were a simple solution, everyone interested would do it, ending the discussions. But there is no simple, one-size-fits-all solution, so it’s probably the most-discussed topic in non-monogamy. Many people dream about a mate who is loyal while allowing some screwing around. In reality this is a rare circumstance. Many people attempt to resolve this dilemma through covert cheating. Some are merely miserable. Others try non-monogamy, as I do.

“Verbalizing Nonmonogamy Right Up Front”

Verbalizing Nonmonogamy Right Up Front” is an interesting post from Black Dragon, who appears to be the only other guy writing about how to incorporate open relationships into game. I haven’t done online dating for a while, and when I did, I never wrote explicitly about polyamory, as this guy does:

Makes my profile clearly unique. They contact me because they want to know about polyamory. I’m suddenly not a random profile on the website, I may be the only one stating my polyamourous lifestyle (appart from OkCupid, I don’t think many dating sites allow you to show your nonmonogamous lifestyle, and OkCupid is not much important in France).

That’s an interesting perspective and it might work. When I did online dating, I experimented with a generic “good looking adventure guy” type profile, which usually consisted of one or two activity shots (motorcycle, pools/beaches, that kind of thing), one headshot, one party or group shot, and one or two shirtless pics. Pretty standard online dating things for guys with something going for them. I also experimented with kink and BDSM-themed pics: rope, paddles, cuffs, that kind of thing, in pictures. That also made my response rate decline substantially. That’s similar to what commenter Paul experienced:

My response rate crumbled to 5% (0% amongst women my age). But two gals contacted me, and showed interest in polyamory as soon as they opened their online mouth (in France, it’s not as big as it is in the US). One told me she considers MLTR to be some ideal relationship. The other one just crave for air in monogamous relationships (in my opinion, she should really consider polyamory as a lifestyle).

But the chicks who did go for me, were usually really into me. And there’s heavy overlap between kink and non-monogamy.

The big downside I experienced was in terms of quality. A lot of heavy chicks are into kink and BDSM. I don’t know if that’s because they can’t get high-status guys through normal means, or if they’re more open about it, or what. I did find some hot chicks through some kink and BDSM-themed pics, but those pics seemed to lock me out of the highest tier of chicks and seemed to suck up some of the lower-tier chicks.

There were fewer flakes, time-wasters, etc. Not zero, but fewer. So I’m not sure what to infer from this. It’s also hard to draw conclusions because the online dating world moves so fast. Things that were true ten years ago stopped being true five years ago. Things that were true five years ago may not be true today. For example, I got on Tinder when it was quite new. Maybe in 2012 or 2013? Definitely before it was mainstream. I heard about it from college-age people, and when it first came out I would go to a college campus and get numerous matches. It was like fishing for salmon in a pristine stream. I’d stand by the side of the stream and spear chicks as they swam by. Young chicks who wouldn’t touch other online dating systems would try Tinder, “Just for fun.” I was older than most guys on it, which worked in my favor among chicks who like older guys.

Eventually I found someone I liked, dated her for a while, and by the time I tried Tinder for real again it was not anything like it had been. Today, it seems like verbalizing non-monogamy in the profile could have interesting consequences, for the reasons the writer lists.

I also can’t tell if we’ve seen a genuine cultural shift towards explicit non-monogamy. If we have, I have been a small part of that shift. Since I met Libido Girl, pretty much every chick I’ve been with for a substantial period of time I’ve introduced or tried to introduce to the sex club scene. I learned to give them the typical books, like More Than Two and The Ethical Slut. Both books are extremely blue pill and unaware of key differences between men and women, but they are fine places to start.

Today there are more chick-friendly books like Slutever. Whatever the player uses, it’s helpful to try and make the chick’s forebrain agree with her hypergamous hindbrain. Chicks also often infer higher status for a guy who is willing to risk losing them through sex with other people. I think chicks think, “Why is he not trying to monopolize me, like all the other guys do?”

I haven’t kept track of how many chicks I’ve introduced or tried to introduce to non-monogamy, but it has to be at least 20. Conceivably as many as 40 or 45, over ten or so years.

I don’t have much of a point with this post, apart from thinking out loud about what contemporary players might be doing. If you’ve attempted to verbalize nonmonogamy in your dating app life, leave a comment about your experiences.

It also looks like BD is doing some kind of seminar in Vegas. I was wondering about this the other day: is any player living in and writing about being a player in Vegas? From the outside it looks like a great place for a player: lots of tourists looking to party and an easy stroll along the Strip for cold approach. Cost of living is low, which gives it a leg up over LA or NYC. If I were a young guy with a location-independent job, I’d be looking at Vegas. NYC is probably the top city for game, but it is so expensive that I worry most guys will have to work all the time to survive there.