“Empowering” and “empowerment are hugely overused words, and the people using them are neither. The people talking about “empowerment” are trying to escape from some aspect of themselves they don’t like, or something they’ve done that doesn’t fit their present narrative. “Empowered” people aren’t talking about empowerment, they’re busy doing things in the real world. Things that are really empowering include learning rare/unusual skills, building a real business that adds value to the world, having peak experiences, deepening real relationships, and probably a few other activities that don’t come immediately to mind. Also, the most “empowered” people I know never talk about empowerment or say they’re “empowered,” so talking about “empowerment” is a sign of weakness/neediness/something undesirable. I searched for the word “empowerment” on red quest and found it in a single post, used skeptically, despite the fact that red quest is in some sense about “empowering” guys to lead the lives they want. If you do the things advocated, and develop the skills described, you’ll be “empowered,” and if/when you are, you own’t need to talk about it. “Empowering” is used once in this blog, but in a quote.
Some people think threesomes “just happen” and while some threesomes can, guys who do non-monogamy look for the principles and patterns underlying threesomes (besides drugs and circumstance… not my favorite routes). The biggest principles are reciprocity and bringing value. In an MFM threesome, the value can come from just being able to set up and execute the scene… lots of women have MFM fantasies but find them very hard to bring to fruition, since most guys are very touchy about this topic and afraid of losing their one and only girl. In many couples, there will be an agreement to do an FMF, then do an MFM, but one person will be eager to do the threesome that is in their favor then don’t want to reciprocate, leading to the usual hurt feelings, drama, cries of double standards and hypocrisy, etc. Girls are very used to guys eager for FMF but who won’t seriously entertain MFM. It is possible to gun for FMF (here is Magnus’s story, doing that), but guys who can pull off MFM are even rarer.
Where there is a shortage there is an opportunity, and smart guys ruthlessly exploit sexual marketplace arbitrage opportunties. A shortage of guys who will fulfill a woman’s fantasy means higher value for a guy who can. If you want some evidence of the depraved sex in the female imagination, the Nancy Friday book MY SECRET GARDEN is a good start….. so are her other books…. or just read any of the websites devoted to chicks anonymously describing what they fantasize about. You may run into chicks with unfulfilled MFM threesome fantasies and, if you do, it is a decent idea to have a buddy who is good at threesomes…. I figured that out a while ago and my friend “John” has played that role for me, and me for him. We don’t keep score any more (no point), although I think we are both transitioning out of this space and into other roles. Some guys will say, “Cool, I get laid” to a proposed threesome but won’t want to go through with it with it for fear of appearing gay, etc. Some will also be happy to f**k a chick when you do all the work and then not reciprocate by bringing a girl back to you.
When you can find a guy in decent shape, who is not afraid of being perceived as “gay,” who is okay in bed, and who will reciprocate… that is powerful. You can get into situations where a girl will confess her MFM threesome fantasy and then you can say, “If you are serious about making it happen then we can make it happen.”
I’m sure some guys will say “MFM is gay” or “real men never do it.” Fine, they can stop reading. To make it happen, I have most often either been with a girl, and sought a third, or John has been with a girl and sought a third, or more rarely from a MF couple in the sex club scene seeking a guy who knows what he’s doing and who isn’t going to get attached.
The way it happens has a pretty firm pattern. We meet in a bar, and either I set the expectation or the other guy does. If the girl is mine I tell her that she can back out any time for any reason. I talked about how chicks need an open, low-pressure environment to really enjoy the f**king and this is similar. Girls also have narrower criteria for men, most often, than men do for women. For most guys, if a girl meets his minimum attraction threshold he’s happy to have a go. Usually we do a drink or two and then go back to my place, the other guy’s place, or a hotel. If I am leading I propose that we have a drink at mine, or that I should “get a place for us.” Everyone knows what that means. I give everyone a chance to say no. Sometimes I will strategically go to the bathroom for a few minutes or run out to “take a quick call” to give the couple a chance to talk, if I have not brought the girl. Girls really don’t like being pressured into things and I want to build in these moments to let her decide what she wants to do without having a guy staring her down panting for sex.
I’ve said this in some different places but not headlined with it: “Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills overlap, but there’s a lot of non-overlap too. For picking up chicks, approach anxiety, initial comments, flirting skills, sheer physicality, fashion sense, logistics, dealing with shit tests, etc. are paramount. Guys should practice and build up those skills. For long-term relationships, emotional compatibility, lifestyle, money/money philosophy, ability to maintain sexual heat, long-term life goals, etc. are much more important. Guys can be good at both but there’s a lot of distinction between the two and if you specialize in being a player you will likely hone the early skills and forget the later ones even exist.
If you are a young guy without a lot of experience with women you should concentrate pretty much entirely on short and medium term relationship skills. If you are an older guy you will have to evaluate your life course for yourself and think about what you seek over time.
Guys who are truly specialized in short term relationships may lose the idea that in the medium or long term, some of the “game” aspects go away… or change. Yes, women will still shit test over the long term, but sometimes the issues are real issues and not shit tests. Real issues that need to be addressed. Sometimes they are comfort tests, a topic that doesn’t come up much because I think most guys don’t get to that stage. Emotionally healthy and secure chicks will have needs that they will bring up, and consistently not meeting those needs will cause the woman to look elsewhere… if she is damaged she may become more attracted to adrenaline, drama, and not having those needs met.
I have made this mistake before.