Putting the girl into the friend zone: a kind of mean story from college

Many guys are used to stupidly putting themselves in the friend zone, sometimes even saying that the girl has friend-zoned him when that is not possible without the guy’s consent… but it is also possible to do the reverse, if you have sufficient SMV, and something like this happened to me in college. I made it happen, sort of, without knowing WTF I was doing at the time, like the sorcerer’s apprentice playing with magic. There were a bit more women than men at my school and that led to some good things for me, including meeting this girl, Holly, at a house party, because she was wearing a short skirt and had a nice body while she was dancing. I made out with her but didn’t have good logistics locked down… I should have tried to f**k her in a quiet nook but I didn’t have the escalation skills or daring I do now. I tried to get her back to my place but her friends stopped me/her.

Next night we went to dinner, came back to watch a movie, f**ked like animals instead. I was 20 and Holly was 18/19. The f**king continued on a daily or twice daily level… she was not a great talker or thinker… not then anyway… I’m not sure what we talked about besides school and gossip… but she sure did love to f**k and that was great. Guess we didn’t need a lot more. Short Dancer was a little like this too.

So Holly and I f**ked a lot but were always hard-up for logistics because of our living arrangements, her in a dorm and me in a shared house. So we got creative and f**ked in a lot of places. Holly had two roommates at the time, one a weird girl, maybe asexual or something, the other a friend of Holly’s and part of a larger group of like 10 – 12 girls who hung out together. Holly’s roommate Sarah was like… a 4? Even at age 18/19. Not due to exercise, but perhaps due to horrible diet or just bad genetics… I feel bad for those girls… there is very little they can do to improve their SMV if the genetics are weighted that far against them. Unlike men, they can’t even substitute achievement and income for raw sex appeal.

Sarah was well frustrated by being young and horny and surrounded by college guys… while not being very attractive and not able to even be flirted with by most of the guys. She was also frustrated that she was out of my kill zone and I was busy f**king her sexier roommate as often as possible.

Sarah offered threeways pretty early on, while drunk, and I turned her down using some moronic reason that was not the truth. Sarah would basically sexually harass me, and I’d laugh about it as she felt up my arse or abs. Holly would also laugh, and now I think there was a bit of dominance play between them… Holly knew Sarah was not a threat and never would be. So Sarah would get her little bits of excitement… but not much else. Friend zone, but for girls.

Eventually I did let Sarah give me blowjobs, with Holly in the room, and then f**ked Holly, telling Sarah that I was addicted to and only interested in Holly’s p***y. A kind of lame excuse, but… I was young and stupid? I hadn’t been seeing Holly all that long but had already f**ked her many times when all three of us came back from a party and I let them blindfold me, then I had to guess who was going down on me (couldn’t tell). When I got tired of the game I said that I needed to f**k Holly and told Sarah to masturbate… and then hold my balls when I was getting close to finishing, and as I finished… it was a turn-on for me but in retrospect it must have been kind of humiliating for Sarah and I’m not sure why I did it that time and a number of times after, except for some ego trip. I should have kept clearer boundaries… but when you have the power… it is tempting to use it… that idea explains a lot of random chick behavior… most guys lack the experience to understand it, having never had substantial sexual power.

Holly had a sliver of time between a class of hers and Sarah coming back, when her dorm room was free for sex, but we had to be quick about it to beat Sarah… who knew that after she found us lounging and breathing heavily… which made her hustle back earlier… and then I told her to hold my balls while I finished in her roommate, so we got into this pattern, one that she liked too much. Not sure how many times we did this sort of thing, probably 8 or 10… not all the time but often enough. Most of our friends saw us f**king at one time or another… college is an interesting time to discover exhibitionist tendencies, since a ton of single people are crammed into a small space, making the market super thick and interconnected. And it meant a lot of walking on other people having sex, or having people walk in on you having sex, then pretending to be embarrassed about it, when it was a turn-on.

I should have said no to Sarah altogether. Holly was among the hotter girls in her friend group, and many of the other girls were fine people, just… not very hot.

Among the hotter girls but maybe not the hottest  in the larger group of girls there was another girl, also named Holly, who knew a bit about our adventures and came back from a party with us one night to have a very nice threesome, although my primary Holly was angry about me raw-dogging Holly #2 (who was bent over and going down on Holly 1). This was also one of my early experiences with girls cheating, as Holly 2 had a boyfriend at another school and she claimed she broke up with him the next day. At the time the cheating I saw confused me… I thought girls didn’t really do that? It was one of the early experiences that made me question the feminist educational system and common culture claims. I can be dense so it took me a lot longer than I want to admit to realize how common cheating is among women. Women are smarter about cheating and much quieter about it than men are.

Men want everyone to know they can get p***y, women want no one to know that they deviate from the monogamy society script.

Holly was very high libido, the first woman I can recall with a higher capacity for sex than me. Would get very horny within like 30 seconds of kissing. Fondle her tits? She’d be ready in a minute or two, desperate for it a few minutes after that. Her whole body was an erogenous zone. She was great… just not quite as hot as I’d have liked her to be. Not quite all the way there. But she loved sex, liked me, and was uninhibited about her love of sex, which was very nice… still is very nice. Some women never get over the sex negativity that’s instilled in them by the culture. Some are just really fussy and their fussiness becomes too annoying to deal with.

Holly #2 was a solid 8. Very hot. Holly 1 wasn’t very bi but would kiss and touch other girls… Holly 2 went further. We had 2 – 3 drunken threesomes with her… I was in the weird position of chasing one threesome while trying to push off the other, with Sarah… then I got Holly #2 alone for some very hot sex. Hot for both of us. She was a curiously reserved girl who I never got a handle on. I knew her even less than I knew Holly 1. I think Holly 2 was a bit of princess/primadonna and saw me as socially and sexually proven by Holly 1, plus once I had f**ked her once I didn’t “count” as a new lay and therefore made for a fine person to experiment with while she sought a boyfriend. Or let one find her. I don’t think she expended energy or effort dating… just picked from the guys in front of her. Even in an environment numerically stacked against her I’m sure she did fine.

Unfortunately, Holly #1 knew I wanted to raw dog her and she had a thing against BC, and back then IUDs were either unavailable or not as common as they are now. She was sufficiently drunk to let me a couple times, but then would regret it later that night or the next morning, leading to strife between us. A summer intervened, and we were too far away from each other for easy visits so we had a kind of “don’t ask don’t tell” thing, except that neither of us articulated it… I worked a job that gave me a lots of access to pretty girls, and I don’t remember what she did that summer except that we didn’t talk that much. She wasn’t a great talker or an intellectually interesting girl, but she f**ked great.

Back at school again Holly #1 realized what was up at some point, although nothing dramatic happened like her walking in on Holly #2 and me. She did walk in one day and ask point blank, “Are you f**king Holly #2?” Young-me decided on the brazen defense and was like, “Yeah, of course, you were there for it.” Of course Holly hadn’t agreed to me f**king her friend on the sly and that was it for us, although I tried (and failed) to get her back round for some easy late night hookups. I also didn’t have any of the context for non-monogamy that I do now, so I was a dead dog. I understood very little of what was happening… that is why I try to be compassionate to younger guys… most of the time they are running on instinct and subconscious.

Holly was a clean no-contact girl, made easier by the fact that our friend circles and social lives had pretty much no overlap. She must have gotten to Holly #2 cause she disappeared as well.

Like most young guys, I had no idea what was going on and was stumbling my way forward. At the time I had no true understanding of women and thought I had gotten lucky and stumbled into some nymphomaniacs or something. Now I realize that Holly #1 was just a pretty open and adventurous girl and she was looking to keep me happy, and Holly #2 was kind of similar but also didn’t want to be with her (high school?) boyfriend anymore.

I’d also been flirting with another girl I knew through a school club, so when Holly departed I immediately tried that girl, who came over for beer and a movie and wanted to know about Holly me and when I was like “We broke up,” she practically purred. Getting her to actual sex took a bit more effort and more than one date cause she was one of those “everything but PIV sex” girls, but she was amenable to persuasion over time. She was also the hot one of a group of less attractive friends.

Both Hollies got other boyfriends and I heard almost nothing from either them again. I believe Holly #1 married the guy after me. Both Hollies have kids and live in suburbs now, from what I can tell. I don’t know if Sarah ever got to feel another guy’s balls as he finished inside a different girl, or if that was just one of her crazy college experiences, the kind she won’t tell her future husband about. It’s bad to humiliate people… and I think I did that… somewhat… but in the moment we do things we regret later. Making the forebrain and hindbrain 100% congruent is hard… if not impossible.

One I got and then didn’t want

Not sure why, but today I was reminded of a girl, “Katy,” who I met through the scene. She was married and poly but also, surprisingly, attractive. I thought so, at least. We’d flirted here and there, but she eventually broke it off with her long-term boyfriend, and I somehow ended up going on some dates with her. I expected things to go straight to sex, but she’s more of the “poly” part of the open relationship universe, rather than the “swinging” part of the universe, so we went on some dates.

I don’t remember much of the dates, apart from the fact that I liked her, and she liked me, especially because she couldn’t rattle me (though she kept trying, softly). I think when I finally got her back to my place, it was in an afternoon. She has an unusual job that oscillates between extreme hours and no work. We may even have gotten together on a weekday or holiday.

The thing I remember most is the letdown feeling when she was finally naked and I was there to f**k her. I’d seen her in lingerie before. I’d seen her f**king before, albeit from a distance and in dim lighting. She is very tall, but not quite as lean as I would have liked. She is the sort of woman who, if she quit sugar, would probably add a point. But she’s not as disciplined as me in that respect. She still wasn’t bad looking, but for whatever reason we did not match. She was not as hot as I would have liked, and some girls just drive me crazy by their smell, by their essence, by their being. She is not one of them. I hate to sound like a chick, but there is an element of “chemistry” in attraction, especially with chicks who are not 8+.

I like to say that you’re rarely fully aware of how hot a girl really is until you see her naked. Some girls get bumped up a point or two, some down a point or two. This one bumped down. Some of these girls I have way under-estimated, some, like Katy, I have over-estimated. In personality terms, Katy has an edge I like, but not so much edge that she loses her sense of playfulness. Yet I couldn’t get properly excited about her in bed. She is the kind of girl I would have happily f**ked as a teen or in my early 20s, for sport and pleasure, when just getting inside an acceptable woman was a monumental event. By the time I found Katy it was less monumental and I was more discerning. Too discerning, it turned out, or we were just wrong for each other.

I know some guys only want what they can’t have, and when they get a chick, they lose interest in her. That has not been me. But when I get a chick and am disappointed with what I realize I’ve gotten, I know it.

Now I still see her at parties every so often, but we say hi and that’s about it.

There is no real learning point to this story; it’s just a small slice of my life.

“How to keep sex hot in a long-term relationship”

How to keep sex hot in a long-term relationship” is 90% clickbait, but this is true:

It is easy to assume our sex lives suffer in a long-term relationship. Mismatched libidos, stress and boredom can each play a part. But pleasure between the sheets doesn’t have to dwindle.

A lot of people (especially women) let sex go:

I was starting a new relationship and I didn’t want sex to be a low priority as it had been in my seven-year marriage.

Then they are surprised when their relationship doesn’t work. If you do not make sex a priority, your relationship will suffer. I like the “say yes” principle, in which both people in a couple should say yes to sex if at all possible, even if one person is “tired” or “not in the mood” or the other stupid things that prevent people from getting busy.

Most often, it’s the woman’s fault for losing interest, but it is also true, realistically, that a lot of guys don’t try. For a couple to work, both people have to try.

I think about this in terms of my own life. If my co-parent had been more pliant and compliant, I would probably still be with her and none of my many game adventures of the last decade and a half would have happened. This blog would not have happened. My view of women would not be complete, as I think it is now.

She basically “let herself go” after kids and, simultaneously, said no to pretty much every overture I made. Although I was working incredibly hard at the time, she complained endlessly about the work she had to do. She could have simply said, “Dinner is on the table honey, would you like another blowjob?” a couple nights a week, and that, combined with a good disposition, would probably have been enough.

Instead, our sex life went to almost nothing. She was most obsessed by competing with the other mommies. She wanted me to buy her more stuff. She did not seem to realize that we did not have equal value in the relationship, or in the dating market. As my value was rising with age and work experience, hers had cratered. Post-partum she was nowhere near as physically attractive as she had been, and at the same time, from the perspective of other men, she was burdened with little kids.

I was increasingly not at home, to the point where I eventually rented a tiny but wonderful studio close to my then-office. I didn’t want to pull the plug, while at the same time I didn’t see a good way forward. As I began exploring the sexual alternatives, she didn’t seem to mind or notice, not at first, which was a tremendous mistake on her part. The more mean and demanding she became towards me, the more I withdrew. The more I withdrew, the more demanding she became.

This is the stupidest girl game I think I have ever seen. You can only successfully bluff in poker if the other players have not seen your cards. I had seen all her cards. She had nothing. I think she just thought that if she huffed and puffed enough, I would bend to her will… showing that she knew nothing about me at all. Or that female sexual market value declines after having children. It doesn’t go up. That is why women, even those who are having sex with multiple men, try to husband-up the best possible candidate when they find themselves in the family way.

Things did eventually dissolve between us, and that left her worse-off than ever. Although she sued for child support, the total child support was considerably less than in real terms than she’d gotten by living with me. I didn’t have the income to support two households, and because we weren’t married she got considerably less than she would have if we had been. My needs were ultra low (for a couple years I lived without a car… motorcycle-only… and bicycle… get this: BEFORE Uber). I spent money on rent for a small studio, kept the motorcycle going, paid for food and gym, and that was just about it. Apart from child support, obviously.

I don’t think she was thinking straight or understood what was happening. She behaved emotionally instead of rationally. She did try to reconcile with me, but by then I had realized the power of online and offline dating. My income continued to increase, while she struggled. She failed to realize that her roles in our relationship were cooking, childcare, and sex, while mine were income and fixing things. Traditional roles, in other words, but she didn’t realize it because she’d been brainwashed by feminism, or women’s magazines, or friends, that she Deserved Better. Or something. I don’t know what. The problem is that I also realized I Deserved Better… and got it.

But if her disposition had been different… if she’d committed to being pleasant around me and doing our sex life correctly… I would have stayed with her. Probably to the very end. We were too young. In some ways, she might have done me a favor.

Now she is okay, except I don’t think she likes her husband very much. She did find a much older guy, “Beta bucks” as some guys would call him, and lassoed him. I think she would have been better off staying with me, but that was not in her personality or psychology then. She had to learn the hard way.

Sort of like I had to learn the hard way that it is not smart to have a lot of sex with women without condoms. Except I still do that. Feels too good in the moment, man. It’s a dumb thing to do, but I keep doing it anyway. Maybe I am not so all-knowingly smart as I sometimes present myself.

How to drop a bomb on a group conversation

Last night I was having dinner with three women who I’ve known for a very long time. I dated one many years ago, and we’ve stayed friends since. Today, one is still single and basically a spinster, one is divorced, and one is married (this sounds like the setup to a sitcom, I know).

So we’re chatting, and I tell them that as usual I’m not seeing anyone seriously, and they want to know why not. They’re pretty familiar with my ways but for some reason the spinster and divorced ones want to know when I’m going to “settle down.” I tell them about Mating in Captivity and  then about how I’m seeing Bike Girl… they comment about how young she is (she’s not) and I say it:

“I don’t really like dating women over 30.”

To be sure, I said it with a cheeky grin and a bashful, “What can you do?” posture. The reaction was amazing. What was wrong with me? Was I immature? Did I have a complex from childhood? Did I not understand what older women have to offer? There were many others in this vein.

One of my friends even said I was disgusting.

I agreed and told her that she loves me because I’m disgusting and willing to tell the truth when most people lie.

This is the sort of thing that should only be said if you’re willing to play the pariah for a while. I was happy to and I knew them all well. This is NOT the sort of thing I’d usually say, especially to people I don’t know well, though I have sometimes used the “I don’t really date women over 30, but there’s something different about you” line on women over 30 I want to sleep with (or have been sleeping with, or am ramping up to sleeping with).

It’s a high-variance line that tends to create anger and fire. Be careful using it! Only do it if you’re willing to create a lot of anger (but also sometimes comedy, if it’s done well).

In some sense saying this kind of thing is socially stupid. But I did it anyway because I thought it was funny. I also don’t mind being ganged up on; it usually makes me laugh.

Plus, wine.