Doing it differently (Playing the long game)

Xbtusd is back, with another essay about how top guys think about dating and pursue non-monogamy.

I just got word from a long term threesome partner, Anna, that she will be in town in a few weeks, and we scheduled a date. My relationship with Anna makes me think about how different RQ’s experiences are from mine, and how different mine are from the average guy. I’ve put a lot of time and energy into Anna, planting a seed and nurturing it as it grew. When the pandemic struck, Anna moved to another city to ride it out with her boyfriend. During lockdown, the four of us played online games together. When I went out of the country for the winter to a surf destination to escape covid winter, I kept in touch regularly via IG, commenting on her life and sharing mine with her. A lot of red pill commenters would probably say this is “beta,” or “soft”, or “cucked.” Is it? I don’t know, or really care. Human relationships are worth creating and maintaining for their own sake; treat people as instruments and you will become an instrument to them, to be discarded when your use is fulfilled. I don’t like fucking women I don’t know well and connect with as a person. Sex gets better the deeper you connect, not to mention that women need to trust you to fully to let go and have the best sexual experience possible. Want to fuck a girl in the ass? Tie her up? Cum on her face? Treating her like you like her helps, but liking her is exponentially better. 

I first met Anna years ago at a sex party. She and her boyfriend invited my girlfriend and I to fuck. We instead invited them to watch us fuck, and ended up spending a lot of time talking to them throughout the night. We made out a little, watched them fuck, but took it slow. This slow speed was unusual for the type of party I was at, but I wasn’t feeling their energy at first and wanted to get to know them better. Her boyfriend had recently moved to another city and was just in town for the party, so the four of us have never hooked up together. 

Right now, I’m also in the process of scheduling a date with a woman I dated years ago, Rose, who is now engaged. She and her fiance are non monogamous, so there was always an understanding that she’d be allowed to sleep with other men. Since then I’ve become friends with her fiancé, who is great, and Rose and I go on dates from time to time. Rose and I only started sleeping together again two years after she’d started dating her partner. I kept investing in the relationship because I wanted to sleep with her again, sure, I’m a guy, but also because I genuinely enjoyed spending time with her. She eventually proposed a threesome with her current fiance but I wasn’t feeling it. When Rose and I have date nights, we often facetime her fiance together so he feels included. I don’t get stuck in axiomatic thinking. I’m trying to get people to examine hilarious knee-jerk reactions that are at beginner level, red pill bullshit. If I’m living a fulfilling life, why call names? The desire to label others keeps the labeler frozen at the beginning levels. 

There’s a distinct difference between what I’m suggesting and pining away for a girl who is never going to fuck you (i.e. the dreaded friend zone): if you want sex and you realize she’s never going to go in that direction, accept it, and talk to new girls. However, investing in lots of female relationships will often bear fruit (as will investing in genuine friendships with men). As you have more unconventional experiences and relationship configurations, you start to see that trying to create win-win scenarios can produce very high long term ROI. Your perspective will shift. Your sense of the nature of sex culture will shift. I don’t care that much about variety, so what I’m proposing might not be attractive to everyone. But having girls who want to fuck you over many years, who are down to go to sex parties with you, have private sex parties with you, and do unconventional shit, takes investment. It takes time. It takes building trust. It takes reciprocity. The higher the trust the more likely you will have really incredible, outside of the norm experiences. As you have these experiences, they show you what’s possible, allowing you to understand what women want, and what you can offer that’s a compelling proposition. The more of these types of situations you’re in, the easier it is to brainstorm unusual arrangements that might hit the sweet spot on the venn diagram of what all parties involved want/need to get to a yes.

As RQ would say, there are levels to this game: 99% of the time, if you’re new to TRP, the advice—to not put chicks on a pedestal, don’t play the long game, don’t pine for some chick who you are “friends” with but secretly want to fuck—is extremely effective. But if you ignore the long game, and demand that a chick either sleep with you quickly or you’re out, you’ll rarely see what’s possible at the higher levels of game. Many chicks aren’t going to sleep with a guy immediately, and, if she does, she’ll frequently put him in the “casual sex’ category, and never want to sleep with him again.

In many ways, RQ’s levels align with Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs:

Discussion/pattern level.

  • Self Actualization
    • FMF threesomes, BDSM, sex parties etc.
    • Women as members of a group but also evaluating them as individuals. We are both at once. Not all women are alike, though one can see patterns among them.
  • Psychological Needs
    • The evolutionary biology discussion:
      • Learning long-term patterns of attraction, behavior, and incentives for men and women.
      • Field reports and testing the theory in real life.
    • The (better) Reddit red pill discussion is about the need for men to: 
      • Improve diet, lifting, socializing, etc. 
      • Eliminate negative influences like video games, porn, TV, etc. 
      • Learning to approach and accept that women like sex and have sexual criteria. 
  • Physiological Needs/Safety Needs
    • A foggy mixture of confusion, hostility, admiration, and uncertainty:
      • “happy wife, happy life.” 
      • “What do women want?”
      • “I don’t understand why she did this thing.”
      • “She says she wants a nice guy but only dates assholes.” 
      • Putting women on a pedestal. 
    • Women are evil demons and shrieking harpies and just trying to shake men down for money. This is the “anger phase” that men who discover cheating, men with f**ked up lives, men who have suffered through the divorce and “family” law court system, etc. are facing. Most women aren’t trying to shake men down for money, but money and economic resources are a real consideration for women, because those things point to a man with a functional life who can provide for children. 

A lot of the perspectives you have at the beginning of the pyramid will change as you move from serving basic needs to exploring what’s possible at the outer bounds of what men have access to. It’s the difference between working at McDonald’s and being a scientist working on the human project. Long-term thinking can be crucial to success in the self-actualization phase, and self-actualization generally demands positive-sum relationships. A scarcity mindset leads to zero-sum relationships that aren’t as generative as they should be. The question I ask myself is: Are some of my investments a result of clinging to a scarcity mindset and my own limiting beliefs about my ability to bring more high quality women into my life? Unsure, but currently trying to fill the top of the funnel with some amazing women this summer.


Xbtusd’s other essays for Red Quest are here.

How to build communities and find tribe

XBTUSD shines a light in the darkness of the cave, revealing what guys are missing as the scramble around in the dark, cutting their hands and mistaking pain for enlightenment.

Most sex happens in a highly social context, and most “highly social contexts” involve some kind of community—yet no one writing online talks about communities, how they form, what sustains them, how they splinter, or what value they have.

Let’s take a simple example: when I was an undergrad, I joined a fraternity. My path to joining wasn’t certain, and I didn’t plan to join until the week the decision had to be made. Initially, I saw fraternities as a way for people without social skills to “buy” a group of friends: frats had dues, and if you paid, you had a guaranteed set of dudes to get drunk and try and fuck girls with. I was lucky enough to live in mixed-age housing my freshman year and became friends with one of the BMOC (“big man on campus”) seniors who lived in my dorm. He was in one of the “cool” frats (one of the ones hot girls spent time at), and over a number of conversations he convinced me that I had it all wrong, and that I should just join, as there was little downside. He correctly pointed out the downside of joining was that if I didn’t like it, I didn’t have to spend any time there, or could de-pledge if I felt strongly enough. I’d lose the frat dues, which weren’t zero, but that wasn’t a great loss for me at the time. I decided to join and a lot of what I know about community comes from that experience. Most Americans live alienated, isolated lives, and frats are the exact opposite, which explains why so many guys have a great time in school and an unhappy time after. Continue reading “How to build communities and find tribe”

XBTUSD’s take on “the talk” a woman gives when she wants to advance the relationship

XBTUSD is back: his last post describes his first sex party, and he’s written three other posts too.

Almost every male and female in a modern dating context is doing some form of a dance: women want an escalator relationship towards marriage, and men want to avoid committing for a long as possible. Men enjoy the pre-label part of the relationship and women get value and security out of the label. Breeze’s post and Nash/RQ’s comments brought up some interesting points about this age-old topic: should a guy get out in front of things and confront the inevitable and have the talk, or should you avoid the talk and build tension, as Nash suggests? I strongly side with RQ and Lucas Bly, but Nash’s comments added another distinction. I’ve heard many in TRP communities argue that those who have the talk aren’t skilled, can’t hold tension, and are essentially pussies for giving in to what the woman wants and losing the frame. But Nash’s comment that he offers up, “I am your lover” made me realize we all might actually be agreeing here.

There’s value in building and holding tension, but only if it is inevitably released. Good standup is setup, punchline, build tension, release tension, and good seduction should have a similar cadence. Those who say you can avoid “the talk” altogether come off as those that haven’t spent much time around women and are LARPing. The talk is inevitable, so how can we approach it from a Red Pill frame. We have to lead. Create the frame, and let her step into it.

TRQ has a great post on the book Warrior King Magician Lover. Continue reading “XBTUSD’s take on “the talk” a woman gives when she wants to advance the relationship”

What XBTUSD’s first sex party was like

A continuation of XBTUSD’s previous post, “Setting the non-monogamous frame and intention with women.”

My first (planned) group sex experience was a sex party that was relatively easy to get into, and relatively easy to find (the attendees were not that hot: which may not be a coincidence). It’s possible to find sex parties with two minutes and a search engine. I went with my girlfriend at the time and two other couples, and all we did was have sex with each other in a setting where other people were having sex with each other. It was disorienting to be having sex next to other people. I couldn’t cum because I was so distracted by being on an uncomfortable bed, and feeling like people were judging my sexual performance. Later, I learned that people are concentrating on their own experience, not on “judging me:” I was having a spotlight effect problem. Most people care about themselves, not about you, and letting go of the spotlight effect enables a better, more adventurous life. Luckily, I didn’t have trouble getting or staying hard, but it was surprising how nerve wracking it was (many guys use drugs like Cialis to give themselves a boost). I highly suggest doing something like this before you have a threesome or foursome to get some practice in a context where there are more people present than just your female partner.

It’s always the man’s job to lead, and to make the women feel comfortable, safe, and allow them to push their limits. Ideally, prior to the “event”, you should have an adult conversation where you talk about boundaries, things you’d like to try together, condoms, etc. Maybe I’ll write up a topic list in a future post. This convo should happen in a social setting like a bar, not the place you’re going to have sex (maybe not even on the same night as the group sex) so that it doesn’t kill the vibe/spontaneity of the actual sex. The more experienced the participants, the less this applies, because you can have the conversation during sex or right before. Once you know people’s desires/boundaries, you can push a lot harder because you don’t have to worry you might push too far. It’s also good to know people’s experience levels so you can tailor the energy level based on the experience levels of those in a group. Don’t do varsity level shit with most beginners. If she loves the first time, ramp up the next experience.

In a foursome (two men two women) you have a bit of a conundrum because we know that the man should lead (you), but there are two men. Should it be you or the other guy? The answer doesn’t really matter as much as some think, as long as the women feel like everything is moving naturally. The girls don’t want to feel uncertainty around leadership, so it’s important to either plan out, prior to the event, who’s going to lead between the two men, or, if one of you is more dominant than the other, defer to that. Also, if you’re in one or the other’s home, it’s natural to defer to the one whose home you’re in.

Continue reading “What XBTUSD’s first sex party was like”

XBTUSD on his non-monogamy experiences

Reader and regular commenter XBTUSD sent this essay on his experiences with non-monogamy and related topics.

I’ve been exploring the non-monogamous world for around seven years and have had a myriad of experiences pretty different than TRQ’s, and I hope sharing them might be valuable to his audience: I really respect the community he’s built [editor’s note: community of lunatics?], his writing style, and the quality of the discussions in the comments section. Maybe my experiences can serve as a useful counterpoint to TRQ’s and we can compare and contrast.

I first heard about ethical non-monogamy (ENM) at work, teaching a room full of people when my high school girlfriend called me (she had become a close friend after we stopped dating) to tell me about the threesome she’d with her new boyfriend. I was in my late 20s, had never had a threesome or even come close, and was thrilled to hear that this type of thing was happening for real. She’d recently moved out to SF and had gotten immersed in the ENM/psychedelic/tech scene out there, and her and the BF were exploring ENM. She’d always been one of the most sexually open women I’ve met—in high school, we used to go to concerts and have competitions to see who could make out with the most people—so none of this shocked me. The part of the story that did surprise me was that for the month following the threesome, they’d been having the best sex of their lives. This was a huge shift for me in terms of what I saw as possible.

Continue reading “XBTUSD on his non-monogamy experiences”