This is your red pill / pickup “guru,” Roosh

Do you want to listen to a guru whose own life is in shambles, one who is poor and unemployed, or underemployed, and living in his mom’s basement? Neither do I… way back in the dawn of the player world, I read some of the work done by a guy named Roosh V, who wrote about his pickup/player journey… but pretty early on, something seemed off about him, and, although I didn’t track specific passages or moments of “off-ness,” I stopped reading him. There is a common refrain among chicks who hate players that players “hate” women, which is mostly wrong, and yet Roosh did seem to resent women, and to have zero sense of proportion… the Internet is a perfect place for people with zero sense of proportion to find one another, band together, and complain. “Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen,” says badass alpha playboy Sean Connery in The Rock, a movie from back in the ’90s, when fewer people were fat and more people were normal. Which do you want to be? I prefer the prom queen route. It is not a bad idea to emulate Sean Connery. Unfortunately, the school system today encourages whining, and few adults willingly tell kids, “No one cares about your excuses, only your performance matters.”

In his podcast (no link, deliberately), Roosh says that he’s now poor and living at home with his mom. He must be 40, maybe older… he says he’s found God and become a Christian… no problem with the latter, but should we take his Christianity any more seriously than his life as a player? Or is there something wrong within him, driving both belief patterns and systems? I personally don’t recall the part of the Bible the encourages guys to sponge off their elderly parents, but maybe it’s in there somewhere and I missed it.

Is Roosh a weird dude, with his weirdness changing shape and form over time?

I have my problems but, when listening to anyone, it’s useful to consider whether their own life, as a totality, is worth emulating, something emphasized in Status/coolness first, THEN evangelize for whatever the thing is. I’ve noticed that Most guys don’t care much about getting laid, I hypothesize, but I’ve also noticed that most of the noisiest guys who do this have some serious problems that repel normal guys… like I say in the post, “I’ve speculated in private that I think this universe [of pickup, red pill, etc.] is self-limiting, because the accurate and useful ideas about, for example, picking up chicks, are often swirled together with a bunch of other off-putting, inaccurate, and widely disliked ideas: a bunch of anti-social people discussing social skills.” How many guys want to listen to a guy who must be 40 or more and living with his mom? This is your avatar of being a better man?

Look, I do think he learned game and got lays he wouldn’t have otherwise, and I’m not arguing that he was a fraud as a pickup guy. But he was also likely fighting against himself, and fighting against girls’s senses of who and what a quality guy is. It’s knowing the lyrics to the song without hearing the music.

A guy I talk to says he went to a Neil Strauss book signing, a few years after The Game came out, and he said the guys at the signing were like ComiCon (Comic Con?) stereotypes. The more they were Strauss fans, the better they seemed to know The Game (the book), the worse they seemed as people, and as guys who’d do well with women.

Most girls have a subconscious sense of and for a guy’s underlying value, social skills, and way of being. Even if a guy appears promising on the surface, if there is something off in his unconscious (his “frame”, if you will), in his vibe, in his worldview, the girl might not be able to articulate what is off, but she will sense it, and keep her distance. Girls are the product of thousands of generations of women who learned to trust their instincts about men. Those instincts aren’t perfect, but they’re better than the average guy thinks. The average guy has a simple mating algorithm, “Hot girl? Want to f**k. Not hot girl? Maybe try to f**k. Hideous girl? Okay, maybe not, unless drunk.” The female algorithm is much more complex, probably more complex than Duck Duck Go’s search algorithms, because having sex with men is dangerous and, if a woman chooses the wrong man, her and her baby will suffer and possibly die. If your actions, words, or being don’t align with your values or beliefs, chicks will be able to tell. Maybe they won’t be able to articulate what’s off, but they’ll tell, and they’ll pull back… like they should do.

One reason a lot of chicks regret their sexual antics the next morning, is because the next morning their normal evaluation functions are in place, while alcohol dulls or removes those functions. Normal women think, “I guess this was a negative experience that I should learn from.” Messed-up women get online and complain about men, while taking no responsibility for their own choices, go talk to the administrators who have replaced their fathers, etc.

Somehow this guy, Roosh, has 75,000 Twitter followers. If none are paid-for bots, what does that tell us?

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

11 thoughts on “This is your red pill / pickup “guru,” Roosh”

  1. I had the same thoughts. His site, Return of the Kings,was actually the first “red pill” source i found. I downloaded his book “Bang”,read it, something was off and I never tried to implement anything.

    In retrospect, that approach from the book was autistic as fuck, in a proper usage of this expression.

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    1. The danger is, I think, guys who are already social idiots or vaguely autistic find Roosh and try to implement his ideas. Maybe that’s better than nothing, or an introduction to better things, but his ideas have a lot of unrecognized limitations, and probably aren’t going to work that well, for reasons the guy isn’t aware of. It’s like a medieval doctor trying bloodletting and such, without understanding bacteria or viruses.

      That said… he has done a lot online, made a lot of noise online… some of the things he said were correct. More aware guys melted out of his audience, leaving behind… we can see who remained.

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  2. Actually you are missing a great deal there. Of course Roosh was a dark character and not someone you can take as your friend but he was really smart and entertaining explaining how to do things, proving an “autistic style guy” can do pick up too. His books were just amazing to read and he was earning a comfortable living on sales (probably near rich status).

    His sister had cancer and died a little bit unexpectedly and something clicked on his head and went the totally opposite path, retiring all his profitable means of income (sites, books rights, ads on his forum) and basically going back to square one. Now is a scary guy totally nuts and it is painful to read or follow this destructive path. But before that we survived all kind of difficulties (e.g. he is persona non grata in UK and can not fly to the country) and I guess he was the person living better from book sales in all this strange pick up world.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. >> His sister had cancer and died a little bit unexpectedly

      Tragic. I’m sorry to hear that.

      >> Roosh was a dark character and not someone you can take as your friend

      And I think girls sense that, and whether you want to call it darkness and narcissism or something else, whatever was off about him must have led to worse overall relationships w/ chicks.

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  3. He had mentioned when he had finally noticed that he was getting nothing from having sex with women. I think that certain men with a certain type of mindset are more susceptible to what happened.

    I know plenty of men who have no business getting into “it”. I think that he was searching for something else, never found it, and is still searching. I admire his return to the faith but I worry about him as a person. He still seems lost.

    Irony is that I don’t hate the “community” at all. I knew that it wasn’t for me but it may be okay for some.
    But I think it is wrong for some.

    (I am more here for mindset and to develop myself/help others).

    Thank you again!

    MFM

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  4. I never got into Roosh’s ecosystem proper but I did read Day Bang years ago since it was recommended somewhere. It’s been a while but the book had a surreal quality to it. Like it was written by someone who had become a master conversationalist — but never learned to enjoy them along the way, or see them as anything more than a means to an end. I liked the ideas about “bait” and storytelling, but those aren’t ideas he invented anyway and they are expressed better elsewhere.

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  5. I read Roosh’s books around the time I read the Rational Male and failed to implement them. Don’t know if it was his advice, or my social skills / effort put in.

    Anyway on Roosh. He succeeded as a player but failed as a man. When you are broke at 40 does it matter that you banged 200+ women? He hit the male version of the wall. His businesses failed, he didn’t save and he doesn’t have a skill to fall back on. The 75k followers is just time. Roosh has been on twitter for quite awhile (10+ years?). I don’t have anything against the guy, mostly pity honestly. Roosh seems to have been a decent guy to work with at least from what Donovan Sharpe has said.

    The beginning of the end was Roosh trying to wife up a young Ukrainian girl while broke. He talks about how it failed in one of his podcasts and how it hurt him. Being a fun player works for a long time. But 21-25 year olds do not settle down with poor 40 year olds, even in Ukraine. That happened around the time ROK went out of business and the year after Roosh had his bible tour.

    On the resentment towards women thing. Not liking women has to make being a player miserable. I enjoy talking to and dating women a lot. Think of going on 10 one hour first dates per lay, and not enjoying it. I couldn’t do the player lifestyle and not enjoying talking to women on dates. It really wouldn’t be anywhere near as much fun.

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  6. >’but pretty early on, something seemed off about him, and, although I didn’t track specific passages or moments of “off-ness,” I stopped reading him.’

    I have read more than a few of Roosh’s reports/articles and also have read Day Bang. I was
    simultaneously repulsed by the mechanicalness of his interactions with women AND drawn in by the honesty with which he reported how hollowed and missing out those experiences left him feeling. I can’t read any quantity of Delicious Tacos’ work but there is a similar quality to it. Admitting in print to the sorriest state of human affairs. Strauss’ ‘The Game’ tells the story of similar flawed characters, but the writing seems to lack the self-awareness of how tragic the story actually is. As do his fans, apparently.

    What you perhaps don’t see is how successful Roosh was as a publisher. His website was an entertainment site, but it introduced a huge number of guys to ‘the manosphere’ and to red pill ideas. It also provided a start to many writers in the field.

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    1. I think Strauss has/had some sense of the flaws of those around him… but also, he’s writing about a relatively short slice of time, what a year, two, maybe three? I think a lot of the guys he’s writing about, their tragedy only unfolds over years, maybe a decade or more. And only if the writer chooses to emphasize that. Over the long term, it “works” if the person trying to learn it is able to grow and confront whatever internal demons he has. If he doesn’t, then he has a kind of groundhog day quality: he learns new techniques, but the outcomes rarely differ.

      That Roosh generated much attention seems true… I do wonder about the quality of the attention… media sites are also good but almost impossible to make money from… very hard at the least…

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  7. I’ve loosely followed Roosh online since 2011 or so. He published his first Pick-up guide back in 2006 or 2008. It was a straightforward rehash of the Mystery Method. Later on, his shtick was to be tall, dark (if not handsome) and American in countries where it’s an exotic look.

    “Peak Roosh” was when he appeared on Dr. Oz show on “fat shaming”. I doubt he ever made more than 100k per year from ebooks and his EliteDaily copycat site. Compare that to Mark Manson, who’s had a few best-selling self-help books in the “blue pill” style and a blog with paid subscription. He also started on the day game and sex tourist routes, appeared on Roosh’s forum, but soon after re-branded himself as “post-masculine”.

    Roosh has been opportunistic. He tagged on to the GamerGate controversy, and later tried to become a conservative media personality. I’d wager that his religious conversion is similar, although death in family gives support to claim that this time he’d be for real.

    He was early on in not presenting himself as a guru who can “get any girl anywhere”, but admitting plenty of failure and frustration. One of Roosh’s few trademark moves was to after a date at a bar to walk towards a woman’s apartment and ask to use the bathroom as a way to invite himself in and then just stay, ask for a glass of wine etc. It left me wondering could that really work, but I’ve never tried it out.

    The Manosphere has a lot of wishful thinking that men would get better with age, and girls would prefer older guys to the limp-wristed Millennials. I’d say that 40 is the soft limit for a player’s career, especially for cold approaching. It’s also the age when you cannot postpone results anymore but are forced to take stock whether self-improvement has worked out or not.

    Red Quest and associated bloggers seem to go against that general rule. Maybe being tall and good-looking can give you a second 30’s in your 40’s.

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    1. Good comment… I’d say re: this…

      >>The Manosphere has a lot of wishful thinking that men would get better with age, and girls would prefer older guys to the limp-wristed Millennials. I’d say that 40 is the soft limit for a player’s career, especially for cold approaching. It’s also the age when you cannot postpone results anymore but are forced to take stock whether self-improvement has worked out or not.

      >>Red Quest and associated bloggers seem to go against that general rule. Maybe being tall and good-looking can give you a second 30’s in your 40’s.

      High-quality women (there are more of them out there than you’d believe, reading red pill and such…) will look somewhat carefully at a guy’s character, long-term prospects, etc. Particularly when the woman is over age 24 or 25. Younger than that, they’ll look at how cool he is, whether he access to fun parties (possibly drugs), etc. A lot of the guys writing online have/offer neither. So a lot of the higher-quality girls, or the ones who lean a bit more K than r, will not spend a lot of time or attention on those guys.

      This kind of quality and such is hard to fake, and someone whose life is built around game is going to have a harder time, particularly as he gets older… I think I walk the line between fun fuckboy and potential long-term prospect pretty well. I can’t tell you how many girls I’ve run into who say they’re tired of “dumb” guys…

      The “image match” is real. https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2019/01/28/sonny-arvado-and-pancake-mouse-on-the-image-match-and-reciprocity/

      All that said… it does seem the game gets much harder after 40… and the likely age of girls goes up… doors, if they aren’t closed all the way, are closing… fundamental decisions loom… a lot of players, possibly including this one, quit around this area for good reason…

      Some truth to “age is just a number” but biology and thermodynamics do constrain us. And when chicks say things like, “Age is just a number,” we make fun of them.

      Guys 40 – 50, even a few 50+, can keep being players, but it’s hard, and the number who do it successfully seems to be small.

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