Passionate love and companionate love for guys

Got some feedback on this, “Short Dancer, maybe the last girl I was in intense love with (while ago now),” and it seems to be off-brand for me, based on the feedback… but the reactions have alerted me to some oversight… there are at least two kinds of love, passionate love and companionate love (may have got the terms slightly wrong but the idea is right). Passionate love is in the intensely erotic and sexualized love that often characterizes the beginning of relationships, crushes, etc. It’s intense, all-consuming, like a drug, etc. Companionate love is closer to friendship, involving kindness, compatibility, similar values, etc. These two are not completely exclusive… it’s possible to find someone highly arousing but also companionate. Or companionate but also arousing, if you like that better.

They don’t have to go together.

But they can.

I may have misjudged Short Dancer, because I thought she was more hypergamous and more interested in being an experimental s**t than she might be in reality. It’s hard to say because I don’t know a lot about what she’s really been up to, so for all I know she has a secret side guy besides her official guy. But she seems to be more interested in monogamy and a steady relationship than I thought (unless there’s something I don’t know)… but our experience together was primarily passionate. Very passionate.

Passionate love is wonderful… it’s also not very sustainable… after you’ve f**ked a woman hundreds of times, passionate love will probably begin to decline as you acclimate to her and her to you. What’s left when the overwhelming drug exhilaration goes away? Until it does, you don’t know… you probably can’t know… you’ll probably be blinded by her beauty and the feel of her p***y… a lot of the better long term relationships with kids can start with passionate love and decay into companionate love. Not impossible for that happen. But it’s also possible that most women with whom you experience passionate love, are not suitable for long-term relationships. And some women who are great for long-term relationships don’t generate the most intense sexual passion.

“Picking up girls” skills and “long-term relationships” skills have some overlap but a guy who wants to f**k a lot should focus on the first set of skills, not the second set. Lots of guys have neither set of skills and just take what they can get. Probably the majority of guys, in reality. Most guys writing about the game focus on pickup… as they should… it is hard to have a satisfying long-term relationship without having options and without knowing that the woman you’re with can leave and you’ll be okay. Women prefer guys who the women know can get other women. Guys are going to have lots of trouble having good long-term relationships with companionate elements unless they can pick up chicks.

I’m bringing this up because it’s possible to have a long term relationship with family and kids with a woman who goes from passionate love to more companionate love. It happens, yes. But… a lot of divorces, nasty breakups, etc. happen when someone, or two people, mistake passionate love for good long-term compatibility. Short Dancer was a great passionate love but I think the age gap and other factors made us unsustainable… beyond that, I wasn’t quite looking for that kind of thing at that time.

A lot of broken relationships are founded on passion, and male desperation. Almost all regular romantic/sexual mainstream advice focuses on companionate relationships… those are fine, but the advice is almost always half-blind. I don’t emphasize companionate relationships because the commentary on them is so readily available… but almost no mainstream advice focuses on maximizing passionate relationships… or is even comfortable with talking about them. Players are rare because we value passion and strive to create it in both men and women, while the mainstream seeks to tamp down and deny passion. I want to acknowledge passionate love… but also acknowledge companionate love, here and now. Companionate love can exist without you reader personally wanting to engage in it right now. Get lots of passionate experience first.

In many good long term relationships, passion decays gracefully into companionate love… in a lot of bad relationships, the need to chase passion predominates. One interesting question to me is whether some aspects of non-monogamy can square that circle. Not perfectly, but a little. I’ve seen people do it.

If the relationship is too companionate, especially for younger women, she’ll get bored, and we know that Boredom = death. But women vary in how easily they’re bored, how hypergamous they are, etc., and women who aren’t easily bored are better for long-term relationships. Some women are also incapable of companionate love. I have met women in their 50s and 60s who are still chasing the D like teens.

I’m in favor of being in love. Love is fun. I’m against marriage but in favor of love. You can also love a chick w/o being monogamous.

Advertisers can’t sell products with companionate love, for the most part, so we see passionate love depicted. But companionate love is a thing too.

Many players and s**ts love passionate love and will eliminate partners as the passion subsides. If you commit to a woman while you are in the throes of passionate love, you are setting yourself up to fail, and a lot of guys do this, then post online about how chicks are evil, while taking zero responsibility for their own actions and choices.

Most of the mistakes I write about, like mistaking passion for compatibility, are mistakes I’ve made.

Putting the girl into the friend zone: a kind of mean story from college

Many guys are used to stupidly putting themselves in the friend zone, sometimes even saying that the girl has friend-zoned him when that is not possible without the guy’s consent… but it is also possible to do the reverse, if you have sufficient SMV, and something like this happened to me in college. I made it happen, sort of, without knowing WTF I was doing at the time, like the sorcerer’s apprentice playing with magic. There were a bit more women than men at my school and that led to some good things for me, including meeting this girl, Holly, at a house party, because she was wearing a short skirt and had a nice body while she was dancing. I made out with her but didn’t have good logistics locked down… I should have tried to f**k her in a quiet nook but I didn’t have the escalation skills or daring I do now. I tried to get her back to my place but her friends stopped me/her.

Next night we went to dinner, came back to watch a movie, f**ked like animals instead. I was 20 and Holly was 18/19. The f**king continued on a daily or twice daily level… she was not a great talker or thinker… not then anyway… I’m not sure what we talked about besides school and gossip… but she sure did love to f**k and that was great. Guess we didn’t need a lot more. Short Dancer was a little like this too.

So Holly and I f**ked a lot but were always hard-up for logistics because of our living arrangements, her in a dorm and me in a shared house. So we got creative and f**ked in a lot of places. Holly had two roommates at the time, one a weird girl, maybe asexual or something, the other a friend of Holly’s and part of a larger group of like 10 – 12 girls who hung out together. Holly’s roommate Sarah was like… a 4? Even at age 18/19. Not due to exercise, but perhaps due to horrible diet or just bad genetics… I feel bad for those girls… there is very little they can do to improve their SMV if the genetics are weighted that far against them. Unlike men, they can’t even substitute achievement and income for raw sex appeal.

Sarah was well frustrated by being young and horny and surrounded by college guys… while not being very attractive and not able to even be flirted with by most of the guys. She was also frustrated that she was out of my kill zone and I was busy f**king her sexier roommate as often as possible.

Sarah offered threeways pretty early on, while drunk, and I turned her down using some moronic reason that was not the truth. Sarah would basically sexually harass me, and I’d laugh about it as she felt up my arse or abs. Holly would also laugh, and now I think there was a bit of dominance play between them… Holly knew Sarah was not a threat and never would be. So Sarah would get her little bits of excitement… but not much else. Friend zone, but for girls.

Eventually I did let Sarah give me blowjobs, with Holly in the room, and then f**ked Holly, telling Sarah that I was addicted to and only interested in Holly’s p***y. A kind of lame excuse, but… I was young and stupid? I hadn’t been seeing Holly all that long but had already f**ked her many times when all three of us came back from a party and I let them blindfold me, then I had to guess who was going down on me (couldn’t tell). When I got tired of the game I said that I needed to f**k Holly and told Sarah to masturbate… and then hold my balls when I was getting close to finishing, and as I finished… it was a turn-on for me but in retrospect it must have been kind of humiliating for Sarah and I’m not sure why I did it that time and a number of times after, except for some ego trip. I should have kept clearer boundaries… but when you have the power… it is tempting to use it… that idea explains a lot of random chick behavior… most guys lack the experience to understand it, having never had substantial sexual power.

Holly had a sliver of time between a class of hers and Sarah coming back, when her dorm room was free for sex, but we had to be quick about it to beat Sarah… who knew that after she found us lounging and breathing heavily… which made her hustle back earlier… and then I told her to hold my balls while I finished in her roommate, so we got into this pattern, one that she liked too much. Not sure how many times we did this sort of thing, probably 8 or 10… not all the time but often enough. Most of our friends saw us f**king at one time or another… college is an interesting time to discover exhibitionist tendencies, since a ton of single people are crammed into a small space, making the market super thick and interconnected. And it meant a lot of walking on other people having sex, or having people walk in on you having sex, then pretending to be embarrassed about it, when it was a turn-on.

I should have said no to Sarah altogether. Holly was among the hotter girls in her friend group, and many of the other girls were fine people, just… not very hot.

Among the hotter girls but maybe not the hottest  in the larger group of girls there was another girl, also named Holly, who knew a bit about our adventures and came back from a party with us one night to have a very nice threesome, although my primary Holly was angry about me raw-dogging Holly #2 (who was bent over and going down on Holly 1). This was also one of my early experiences with girls cheating, as Holly 2 had a boyfriend at another school and she claimed she broke up with him the next day. At the time the cheating I saw confused me… I thought girls didn’t really do that? It was one of the early experiences that made me question the feminist educational system and common culture claims. I can be dense so it took me a lot longer than I want to admit to realize how common cheating is among women. Women are smarter about cheating and much quieter about it than men are.

Men want everyone to know they can get p***y, women want no one to know that they deviate from the monogamy society script.

Holly was very high libido, the first woman I can recall with a higher capacity for sex than me. Would get very horny within like 30 seconds of kissing. Fondle her tits? She’d be ready in a minute or two, desperate for it a few minutes after that. Her whole body was an erogenous zone. She was great… just not quite as hot as I’d have liked her to be. Not quite all the way there. But she loved sex, liked me, and was uninhibited about her love of sex, which was very nice… still is very nice. Some women never get over the sex negativity that’s instilled in them by the culture. Some are just really fussy and their fussiness becomes too annoying to deal with.

Holly #2 was a solid 8. Very hot. Holly 1 wasn’t very bi but would kiss and touch other girls… Holly 2 went further. We had 2 – 3 drunken threesomes with her… I was in the weird position of chasing one threesome while trying to push off the other, with Sarah… then I got Holly #2 alone for some very hot sex. Hot for both of us. She was a curiously reserved girl who I never got a handle on. I knew her even less than I knew Holly 1. I think Holly 2 was a bit of princess/primadonna and saw me as socially and sexually proven by Holly 1, plus once I had f**ked her once I didn’t “count” as a new lay and therefore made for a fine person to experiment with while she sought a boyfriend. Or let one find her. I don’t think she expended energy or effort dating… just picked from the guys in front of her. Even in an environment numerically stacked against her I’m sure she did fine.

Unfortunately, Holly #1 knew I wanted to raw dog her and she had a thing against BC, and back then IUDs were either unavailable or not as common as they are now. She was sufficiently drunk to let me a couple times, but then would regret it later that night or the next morning, leading to strife between us. A summer intervened, and we were too far away from each other for easy visits so we had a kind of “don’t ask don’t tell” thing, except that neither of us articulated it… I worked a job that gave me a lots of access to pretty girls, and I don’t remember what she did that summer except that we didn’t talk that much. She wasn’t a great talker or an intellectually interesting girl, but she f**ked great.

Back at school again Holly #1 realized what was up at some point, although nothing dramatic happened like her walking in on Holly #2 and me. She did walk in one day and ask point blank, “Are you f**king Holly #2?” Young-me decided on the brazen defense and was like, “Yeah, of course, you were there for it.” Of course Holly hadn’t agreed to me f**king her friend on the sly and that was it for us, although I tried (and failed) to get her back round for some easy late night hookups. I also didn’t have any of the context for non-monogamy that I do now, so I was a dead dog. I understood very little of what was happening… that is why I try to be compassionate to younger guys… most of the time they are running on instinct and subconscious.

Holly was a clean no-contact girl, made easier by the fact that our friend circles and social lives had pretty much no overlap. She must have gotten to Holly #2 cause she disappeared as well.

Like most young guys, I had no idea what was going on and was stumbling my way forward. At the time I had no true understanding of women and thought I had gotten lucky and stumbled into some nymphomaniacs or something. Now I realize that Holly #1 was just a pretty open and adventurous girl and she was looking to keep me happy, and Holly #2 was kind of similar but also didn’t want to be with her (high school?) boyfriend anymore.

I’d also been flirting with another girl I knew through a school club, so when Holly departed I immediately tried that girl, who came over for beer and a movie and wanted to know about Holly me and when I was like “We broke up,” she practically purred. Getting her to actual sex took a bit more effort and more than one date cause she was one of those “everything but PIV sex” girls, but she was amenable to persuasion over time. She was also the hot one of a group of less attractive friends.

Both Hollies got other boyfriends and I heard almost nothing from either them again. I believe Holly #1 married the guy after me. Both Hollies have kids and live in suburbs now, from what I can tell. I don’t know if Sarah ever got to feel another guy’s balls as he finished inside a different girl, or if that was just one of her crazy college experiences, the kind she won’t tell her future husband about. It’s bad to humiliate people… and I think I did that… somewhat… but in the moment we do things we regret later. Making the forebrain and hindbrain 100% congruent is hard… if not impossible.

Responsibility and later seduction. Internal congruence

Another topic that gets no play in the Red Pill and seduction communities, cause most guys don’t get to this later stage, it is not good to trifle with women who are heavily investing in you. This damages the woman and while it is psychologically appealing to the guy (it’s nice to have the attention and desire you can return… or not), but it creates bad feelings and outcomes. Power over women who invest happens after the guy gets game and deploys it effectively, meaning that most guys never get it and this post is not for them, so this subject confuses them, like stories about a culture they’ve never visited and can’t believe exists.

I know the logical counter to this point (about the wisdom of refusing or discouraging investment that won’t be reciprocated)… “But chicks do this all the time!” True, true. But mature chicks don’t encourage male investment and male suitors who don’t interest them. Immature chicks… greedy chicks… they will, and that’s why so many younger guys have problems with the “friend zone” and perceived female uncertainty. Younger guys don’t follow the algorithm and don’t effectively sort girls into ones who might f**k and ones who won’t. I didn’t either when I was young & stupid, not to worry. I was afraid of “no,” when “no” is a gift, a gift of my time & attention so that I can direct them consciously into better things.

Mature guys… also don’t spend a lot of time and investment in women who are unlikely to be lovers. If a woman isn’t interested… the guy withdraws and finds a woman who is. Many chicks, if attention and gifts are foisted on them by inept men, will accept those… but if you are foisting gifts on a woman who hasn’t earned them, then you kinda deserve what you get. Immature guys believe gifts and attention should be rewarded with sex… when it’s actually closer to the other way around. No one in our female-dominated culture discusses to this.

This gets me to my point… when a woman’s emotions and sex habits are connecting and converging into you… it is not good to trifle with her, lead her on, and jerk her around. You will damage her, and inflict needless cruelty, and for what? If you have decent game, the sex part may be challenging, but it shouldn’t be infinitely so.

Some dysfunctional women prematurely invest when they shouldn’t, or they can’t help themselves because the man is unusual and matches their interest, or is much higher SMV than they are. If she does that… it is not your fault. But you should let go, want to let go, chicks who are deeply converting but who you don’t fancy in that way. At least tell them that you’re not going to be their boyfriend but can be their lover. Set expectations.

This is emerging from my own experiences and from conversation with a player who is interested in non-monogamy and who has found a woman who has also been searching for this her entire life, searching for a way to reconcile mind and body, emotions and physicality. Like libido girl and a number of others I’ve met, she craves the novelty of new sex… but wants a relationship too. Most guys, if they advance from casual sex into something more structured with a woman, won’t want a woman like this (they really want a woman who will be monogamous to them). There are a lot of pretend non-monogamous guys, and even more strictly monogamous guys (when you get down to it). Women who are sexually adventurous but with hearts and the desire to pair-bond… it’s actually not easy for them. Even with monogamous women, their real, true, and full investment is intense. For the bulk of guys who have never experienced the intensity of female emotional and sexual investment…. this issue will be invisible. Like “how to end it” with a woman. It’s advanced stuff. Beginners mistake compassion for weakness. Don’t worry, I did too, once.

I’m against being mean to people. Yes, women will sometimes be mean to you, they will try to take value from you without giving it in return. Yes, it is sometimes appropriate to be mean to people, or direct in a way that is seen as mean. But what is perceived as mean or cruel is often just a balancing of the scales of value.

Notice what I am NOT doing. I am not arguing against casual sex (it would be funny if I did, given my history). I am not arguing against deepening relationships with women. I am not arguing that women are innocent damsels (they are not, and the innocent damsel trope is a lie men tell themselves in order to be p***y… in the real world, almost no one is “innocent”). “Beyond casual sex” is more fun than just f**king strangers in my view. But… I am arguing that it’s bad for you and for the woman to let a woman deeply invest in your and convert to you, if you don’t set expectations, or if you plan to just let her dangle. Cut her loose and let her invest in someone else. The world is already harsh and full of bitterness…. no need to make it harsher and more bitter. It’s bad for the man’s subconscious. Keeping your subconscious aligned with your accessible consciousness is a part of frame, a part of being congruent that, again, no one talks about. Low status guys, f**ked up guys, are incongruent, and their low value and incongruence messes with their inner game. Higher-status, higher-class guys maintain congruence and have a keen sense of loose equality in terms of value given and value taken. This is getting a bit on the “hippie” side of things, about consciousness development, but I think that’s where the the higher levels of game live. Levels a lot of guys never hit, cause they can’t get past the lower levels.

Most women, by the way, never access higher levels of consciousness. If they do, they are already post-wall, and it is too late for them to access those levels via sexuality. Most younger women rely on men to get them there, and most men disappoint. That’s part of the reason we see the discord we see.

Seek for the higher levels. Discourage investment where it’s not warranted. If you see signs of her emotional investment, decide consciously if you want to respond in kind or keep her at a distance. The beginning parts of the game are important but so is the middle and end, where few guys live and where almost no guys writing online discuss.

The more time you spend around women, the more you realize most of them are basically irresponsible and want someone else to make decisions for them. This is why we have the crazy Title IX man-hunting tribunal in the United States and why so many women distance themselves from their sexual choices. This is also why so few women make it to the top of corporate and other hierarchies, because an individual has to be intensely responsible for his choices if he’s going to be a leader, not just a follower—something that most women can’t do. Men who have a lot of experience with women also learn that most women like to follow and so men are reluctant to put women in leadership roles, for good reason. Almost no feminists will admit this, leading to the absurd statements about women in companies that shrieking harpies propagate in the media.

I actually have no problem with women running companies or whatever, but I don’t think you’ll ever see as many women in leadership roles because it’s contrary to baseline female psychology. If a woman wants to be responsible for a large company and has the personality and intellect to do so, then that’s dandy. It’s just unlikely. Most women want men to take responsibility for them… and when she lets a guy into her soul, and then he chucks her aside, she’s wounded. Try not to let her do that. A guy who starts off low status might want to be mean, as revenge… but he’s really taking revenge on himself, for putting up with behavior he shouldn’t have. No reason to do that. The world is hard enough.

My friend Anna, who seems pretty monogamous

The world is a huge place, and any one of us sees a small small part of it. Seduction and Red Pill are a tiny part of a big world, and the guys in it are disproportionately ones with problems. I am thinking about it because I have a kind-of friend (see Female “friends:” the comprehensive statement), Anna, who is in her late 20s, maybe just turned 30, who is engaged… I’d rate her about a 6. A 6 with good habits, though… looking for a woman with good habits is under rated for long term relationships, something I have been mentioning on Twitter. Anna knows about some of the things I do and am into… and she’s not into any of them. She’s been dating a guy for a while who is probably a male 5 – 6 in the looks department, bit better in the economics department. In Red Pill lore that would mean she’s gagging to upgrade and stealing off to f**k random chads every weekend. It could be true… but I don’t think so… most girls can’t maintain a good-girl facade forever… most people will slip up. Online there are many stories about guys being caught totally flatfooted and unawares by chicks who cheat, run up debts, etc., but in reality I think that is quite rare… the being unaware part, I mean… most of these guys are not paying attention. With Anna, I think she’s going to marry the guy, if he’ll go for it. He might.

These are the stories no one shares online… cause they’re basic, quiet stories, about average people going about their lives. He’ll probably never post about how WOMEN LIE because I don’t think she’s lying. In the Red Pill world, cheating, bad behavior, divorces, etc. get read… we should tell those stories because they are real and important… they are also viral because they’re outrageous. We don’t hear stories about monogamy, fidelity, sticking together through the bad times, etc., probably because guys in pretty good relationships never get interested in red pill and seduction.

I have also wondered if, the hotter the girl, the better the offers of cheating, etc., she typically gets, and the more likely she is to take advantage of all those offers.

The chicks online, the chicks who respond to cold approach… they are not necessarily representative of all chicks. The chicks who want monogamy and meet guys through school, work, church, or friends of friends, then stay with the guy, or break up with him in a reasonable way because they’re not compatible, we don’t hear about. They’re invisible to the online world of anger. Their ex boyfriends probably aren’t telling stories about how evil they are and how all women are bad, cause not all women are evil or bad. Most are people. If I posted this to certain forums online I would probably be ripped apart for being a dupe, and how Anna is spreading her legs for randoms on the sly.

Could be, I don’t know, maybe Anna is getting gang banged by a gaggle of black guys every other weekend. Could be that she sociopathicly presents one way and acts another. Maybe in ten years she’ll divorce the guy out of boredom. Unlike most modern chicks, she’s not into social media… she thinks it’s kind of stupid… she’s had two serious long term boyfriends who I know of and not a lot of hookups, I don’t think. I know her from some mutual hangout spots, and I say that I’m probably not real friends with her because we are too different… we have some common interests, yes, and now some common friends, but it’s pretty rare for guys to be true friends with women, and our lack of real common interests keeps us apart, although we’re friendly and have spent a surprisingly long time together. In some ways we feel a bit like work colleagues who learn from each other but aren’t emotionally close. Most chicks who know things about my life and know things about my ways will open up about their slut adventures, etc., if they have any, and Anna has not done that. Guys who present as sex positive will often get girls to reciprocate, and Anna does not. She is like me in that she wants to let other people live how they want to live, but she is not very interested in the things I have done.

The chicks willing to make sex videos and be with guys like me are not representative of all chicks. Etc.

For a guy, it’s not possible to know for sure whether a given chick is like Anna or like all the chicks divorcing their husbands, cheating on their boyfriends, enjoying the flirtatious attention of other men, etc. etc. But if you watch a given chick’s behavior, you’ll get a sense of who she is over time, and she will do the same with you. A lot of guys see chicks whose behavior is not consistent with what they say, and they ignore the behavior when they shouldn’t. But some chicks are consistent with what they say… they say they want families and monogamy, they go out and find a guy who will give it to them. Both Anna and her boyfriend seem to have a pretty strong sense of their sexual market value (SMV), something that makes them kind of rare in the world of online anger. A lot of people are trying to reach above their SMV value, then complaining that it doesn’t work well… these are also the people who generate outrage stories (I have known plenty of these people, too). The guys complaining about how mean women are… are they going for women who are 5s, low 6s? If they chase the same girls all guys want, the hot young ones, well then how much do they know about ALL women?

Plus… look at it from her guy’s point of view… he is dating a woman who seems to be pretty monogamous and about his SMV level. If he were chasing flakey 8s, he’d be posting online about why do these chicks play games, why is she cheating on me, why does she run hot-cold, etc. Instead, he’s not trying to chase the hottest girls… and that means he’s not posting angrily about how mean chicks are, etc., because he’s got someone he seems to like/love and isn’t in the market for angry-man ranting.

Don’t have a strong point in this bit apart from the idea that outrage sells and spreads, while whatever is the opposite of outrage doesn’t. Guys who are in satisfying relationships with women aren’t spending a lot of time in the Red Pill. Even among Red Pill guys, the most outrageous female behavior is the most interesting. I have spent a lot of time in the past ten years in short relationships 6 – 20 month relationships, and some of those have been very satisfying and have generated pretty few outrageous stories, even with non-monogamy mixed in. If we go to a sex club once a month… and the girl is fundamentally in my frame and following my lead… and I am making sure to stay at her pace and maintain her comfort level… there is not necessarily a lot of drama involved, or real good stories. It’s during the periods with lots of tumult, with badly behaved chicks, with chicks who are out of sync with me, etc., that the good stories happen. There are people whose actions, desires, and words all match up… we’re not hearing about them online. They’ve invisible to the anger machines.

Many people’s lives are punctuated by periods of tumult but also have long periods of relative peace. No one posts online, “I’ve been seeing this chick for 14 months and it’s going pretty well.” No one posts, “We realized that we weren’t right for each other anymore and had a respectful breakup.” Stories about how this one chick did a branch swing by f**king her coworker and finding their sexting… those stories are powerful. They are real too.

I still think it is a mistake for guys to get married… I think it is a mistake for Anna’s man to marry her because I think he makes more $$$$ than her. Marriage is an expensive, risky move. But… she is also the kind of person who is probably NOT going to have a family with a guy she’s not married to, so that element is present. She behaves less hypergamously than most women seem to, and she seems to have chosen a guy with a set of features, good and bad, that fit with herself.

All chicks have the potential to branch swing, behave hypergamously, etc., and it’s good to know this cause it will happen to you if you date enough chicks… but not all do it. The ones who do, make for better stories and bitterer guys than the ones who don’t. We all build echo chambers for ourselves, we all struggle, etc. I think there is too much anger online. I get why the anger is there. If some woman blows up a man’s life in an unexpected way, he’s going to be angry and extrapolate. If some guy doesn’t have the SMV to get the women he wants, he’s going to get angry instead of getting better, cause anger is easier. A lot of guys have been told lies about what women want, and when they see past the lie they’re going to get angry, yes. I get it, it makes sense. But anger blinds… don’t be so blind that you mistake your world for the world.

It’s good to pay attention to the possibility of a high duplicity chick, of borderline personality disorder (BPD) chicks, etc. But… they are probably not as common in normal life as they are in the stories online. Don’t be blind. Do some spot checks here and there. Confront the things that don’t seem right. But don’t be paranoid either. If you are paranoid and convinced all chicks are just waiting to cheat, upgrade, etc., you will not have a very happy, or the ability to bond with the better chicks (if you want to do that… some guys want to be players… that’s cool… the game is about helping guys get the tools to get what we want, not about telling guys how to live every aspect of our lives).

I have been some dark places… I get the anger… I do… but I want to acknowledge the dark without having it consume me.

How she behaves towards other people is one day how she’ll behave towards you

How she behaves towards other people is one day how she’ll behave towards you.

Is she mean to other people?

One day she’s going to be mean to you, probably in the same way she’s mean to others.

Does she like to steal? Does she rationalize stealing?

I’ve run into girls who like taking alcohol from parties, or silverware from restaurants, that kind of thing… they seem proud of it. I haven’t seen the deeper levels of this behavior because the stealing is enough for me to distance myself from them.

Does she somehow always have drama with her friends, bosses, family?

One day she’s going to have drama with you, and by the way the police and courts are going to believe her, not you. Logically you can argue that this is not fair, but it’s true, and you need to protect yourself, not argue about notions of fairness.

Does she spend money poorly or earn money poorly?

One day she’s going to come to you for the money.

Does she tell you stories about kicking out some guy right after sex, for no good reason? Does she tell you stories about being mean to guys who are flirting with her? Those are things that are good to know, because you’re going to be her mean story one day and you should prepare appropriately. If she is proud of being mean to other people, one day she’s going to be proud of being mean to you.

Everyone has moments of untoward behavior, including me. If you somehow made a montage of my worst moments I would look bad. Things are grey, not black and white. But when you are building a model of a woman, or of anyone, take into account the red flags. I have been a low-down dirty dog. I’ve also been very effective and enabled experiences that would otherwise not have happened.

Other people are going to judge you the same way. I have lost people because of my interpersonal proclivities. That’s fine, it’s a cost of being alive and living a full life in my view. I do the things I do and pay the price for them, like we all do. But you should decide who you are and what kinds of things you’ll accept in people and what kinds of things you won’t. If you don’t, you’ll get what you get, and then you’ll bear the costs.

Why nurses or teachers are positive signs for longer-term relationships

Hard-core players who want to f**k around can ignore this one, but I mentioned to a player that teachers and nurses are good female occupations for long-term partners. Why?

smart men looking for a long-term partner should look at a woman’s job situation… a woman out of school who has no work or work history whatever is probably showing that there is something wrong with her… but a woman in a corporate job is not that appealing to most similarly situated men. When I am evaluating women for long term situations, two jobs in particular stand out, teacher and nurse. They are both jobs that are easy to leave at the job (don’t demand 50+ hour weeks) and they are both jobs that make it easy to leave for a year or two to have a family.

There are a lot of women who bring nothing to relationships apart from their p***ies… and then they are surprised… where are the GOOD men?

Teachers and nurses make fine money and both jobs can easily be left at work, unlike many modern corporate jobs. Both of them have a caring / empathy component that is good for men. Both jobs are easy to leave for a couple years to do child-bearing and early rearing. Both jobs convey that a woman is smart enough to get into a line of work that’s super compatible with having a family. Obviously, there are many teachers and nurses who would make terrible long-term partners, so you don’t need to tell me that in the comments. I know that and so do you.

It’s also true that some corporate women or flakey artistic bohemians who would make good long-term partners. Judge an individual in her totality, not just her profession. But if I hear “teacher” or “nurse,” that’s a grain of sand on the “long-term partner” side of the scale, and if I hear “boring corporate harridan” that’s a grain on the other side. If a nurse starts telling me about how she cuts herself, how she hates men because of her non-existent relationship with her father, and about how she is a women’s “rights” (special privilege) advocate… then she’s out and it’s on to the next one. A boring corporate harridan who talks about how she has chosen a set of skills and abilities that make it easy for her to have a family… about how she prioritizes family over work… about how she is close with her parents… that’s the opposite…. she’s a good choice… a sign of something is not the thing itself.

Age discrepancy is also an important question for longer-term relationships. I’m very unlikely to get into a serious relationship with a woman younger than 25 or who is still in school. That way lies madness. Yes, younger-hotter-tighter is cool, but that’s also setting yourself up for dissolution and, worse, divorce. The number of exceptions here is super small. If the age gap gets too large, a man is probably setting himself up for failure. If I met the right 23 year old who wanted to be a co-parent… maybe… but we’re also getting to very unusual fringe corner cases.

Yes, it is possible to consciously seek and seed a co-parenting relationship with a much younger women… I know another player who seems to be doing something like this… but it’s so rare that I mention it to be complete without expecting it to be relevant to most guys. If you want such an arrangement and find such a relationship, congratulations, but I don’t think many of them are out there.

Unlike some of the guys excreting their bile online, I’m also fine with the woman making more money than the man, if many other factors are in her favor. Many guys are insecure or threatened by this notion, but I’m not. If she makes $$$$, that’s nice, but the number of attractive women who make a lot of money and also have other good characteristics for long-term partners… we’re again talking about a super small group. I have run into some, most of them being physicians. It’s like hot female engineers… I have run into one or two of them, too… they’re super rare as well. Generic advice needs to aim for the median cases, not the cases three and four standard deviations out there. There are many millions of attractive teachers and nurses out there, some of them young and cute, and the jobs are easy enough to train for and get that they don’t exclude the overwhelming majority of hot chicks, as engineering, computer science, starting your own company, and law tend to do.

“The stripper with the sugar daddy”

The stripper with the sugar daddy” is my version of the title… let’s be real here, she’s no computer scientist… she does have a typical alpha/beta boyfriend dynamic going on, though… “I’m leery of his avoidant attachment style but, like my weekend shifts at the club, the promise of pleasure lures me back again and again,” the usual, honey…

I’m also beginning to realize I’m torn between A and B. B is reliable, empathetic, open, everything I am not used to in men — but deep down I know I am not as into him as he is into me. I find myself drawn to the 10,000-piece puzzle that is A. Even though he is evasive and maddeningly frustrating, I realize that I am in love with him.

It’s like reading red pill fan fic… the boring guy is too boring for her, the exciting guy is exciting because he’s unreliably available. With A, there’s a little “accident,”

We go back to his place and fuck passionately for hours, in every position. I love making you come, he whispers, kissing the back of my neck. When he’s about to finish he asks, can I come in you, but I hear, can I come on you, and tell him of course. I am shocked when I feel myself getting filled with something. It’s been a long time since I let someone do that, for me it’s as intimate as it is risky.

B, however,

sends me a link to a playlist he’s made. I listen to it before work and realize it’s a love letter. I am flooded with conflicting emotions. He knows I dance and thinks its “fucking badass,” which is a rarity; he’s a feminist, a real one. We are compatible on so many levels but there is something missing for me.

She likes him but is an avoidant type herself… so B’s statements of attraction to her turn her off… while A’s distance turns her on. Different types women of women will be turned on by different things. This is not a chick who likes comfort or needs much of it. This is a chick who likes wild uncertainty. The more sexually open and fluid she is, the more likely she is to be turned on by game playing, hot-cold, push-pull, etc. Know your audience.

Finishing inside is a universal path to intimacy and connection, however.