How to drop a bomb on a group conversation

Last night I was having dinner with three women who I’ve known for a very long time. I dated one many years ago, and we’ve stayed friends since. Today, one is still single and basically a spinster, one is divorced, and one is married (this sounds like the setup to a sitcom, I know).

So we’re chatting, and I tell them that as usual I’m not seeing anyone seriously, and they want to know why not. They’re pretty familiar with my ways but for some reason the spinster and divorced ones want to know when I’m going to “settle down.” I tell them about Mating in Captivity and  then about how I’m seeing Bike Girl… they comment about how young she is (she’s not) and I say it:

“I don’t really like dating women over 30.”

To be sure, I said it with a cheeky grin and a bashful, “What can you do?” posture. The reaction was amazing. What was wrong with me? Was I immature? Did I have a complex from childhood? Did I not understand what older women have to offer? There were many others in this vein.

One of my friends even said I was disgusting.

I agreed and told her that she loves me because I’m disgusting and willing to tell the truth when most people lie.

This is the sort of thing that should only be said if you’re willing to play the pariah for a while. I was happy to and I knew them all well. This is NOT the sort of thing I’d usually say, especially to people I don’t know well, though I have sometimes used the “I don’t really date women over 30, but there’s something different about you” line on women over 30 I want to sleep with (or have been sleeping with, or am ramping up to sleeping with).

It’s a high-variance line that tends to create anger and fire. Be careful using it! Only do it if you’re willing to create a lot of anger (but also sometimes comedy, if it’s done well).

In some sense saying this kind of thing is socially stupid. But I did it anyway because I thought it was funny. I also don’t mind being ganged up on; it usually makes me laugh.

Plus, wine.

“It’s OK for alpha males”

It’s OK for alpha males: Sexual harassment is a crime committed by beta-males who think they can get away with alpha behaviour.” Yes, yes, and yes.

Want to see how the top guys live? Raise your sexual marketplace value.

I by and large don’t drink at the company trough because I think that leads to too many problems. Better to pay for it. But I have had some interesting experiences with former colleagues / interns, at least when I no longer directly supervise them, and that only works if you’re towards the top.

There are so many women out there, though, that it’s not worth messing around in most work environments. Exceptions might be bars or other low-level jobs that are basically just selling sex anyway.

New Year’s Eve

“My friend is having a New Year’s party. Maybe we should go to that instead.”

“Have you been to his parties before?”

“Yeah.”

“What’s it like?”

“It’s fun.”

“Is it a dozen people standing around drinking and awkwardly eyeing each other up, only to have none of them go home with each other at the end?”

“Haha.”

“Like I said, we can go to the sex party, where instead of people wondering what everyone looks like naked, they can find out for themselves. You’ve liked the things we’ve gone to, right?”

“Um, yeah.”

“Right. So I have to give them money towards the hotel, so if we’re going to agree to do this, we need to do this.”

“Okay. I feel bad because usually I hang out with [the usual friends.]”

“That’s okay. I don’t think your friends are down for this, but ‘Melissa’ might be. You can talk to her about it if you want.”

“Haha, okay.”

This is something like “soft leadership:” redirecting the energy of the conversation toward the right end. I also HATE most NYE parties, because they are either in loud, overpriced clubs/bars or they’re groups of people standing around holding champagne wondering where their lives are going.

You don’t get to the best places by doing what everyone else does. You get to better places by working smarter and harder than other people, and then exploiting market inefficiencies. Sometimes that means doing nothing. It means saying no and NOT doing what everyone else does. Some of my best NYEs have been alone or with one person. The worst have been in large crowds and being alone in the mass.

This kind of thing (group sex) isn’t for everyone (I know that and get feedback from guys who think group sex is disgusting. Fine with me. Lots of girls fantasize about it. I have a longer post about RP and it… for now this post covers some of the material). But I find it much more satisfying and interesting than typical NYE status jockeying.

Like a lot of girls, Bike Girl has two – three actual friends and a bunch of people she sometimes hangs out with who are her “friends.” Those straight male “friends” just want to nail her, except for one guy who is enough of a player to not care much. Also like most girls, she has no idea what she really wants and thus will conform to the people she’s around.

When I was younger I was hesitant to lead because I didn’t want to be the boss or boss people around. Now I realize that I’d picked up poor notions of leadership from the larger culture. Leadership is much subtler and it means being willing to make things happen, being willing to negotiate, and perhaps most importantly having a direction to go.

Most people have no direction, so them leading anywhere is impossible.

“Come on, let’s do x,” is a powerful force.

The deep psychology that keeps men in the game

I think most basic guys who get into game just want to find a pretty, acceptable girlfriend, and when they find one they drop off. Maybe they eventually break up, only to start the cycle anew. Or they have kids, and that’s another set of issues not conducive to game writing.

Then there are the guys who get into the game, maybe to find a girlfriend or maybe to just sleep with a lot of women, and they succeed: over time, they have amazing and awful experiences and they rack notches. They have amazing stories.

Eventually racking notches loses some of its appeal. Most women are not that good outside of bed; they’re annoying to be around; they themselves lose their personal discipline; and the Coolidge Effect kicks in. So guys start to feel what I call the Groundhog Day effect, where nailing yet another rando loses some of its thrill. SOME. Not all of course. Most intelligent guys, sooner or later, also want to create something more lasting than random bangs. Usually that means kids. Often the desire becomes acute in the mid 30s to early 40s. One can imagine biological reasoning for that, or the realities of aging and death as one’s parents die or become elderly and infirm. A lot of guys who marry or de-facto marry in their 20s do the opposite and seem to break up in that period, maybe because they realize their opportunities to relatively easily close 20-something women are going to dwindle.

(Yes, I know, the Internet is full of 45- and 50-year-old guys with their HB9 24-year-old girlfriends… maybe… I’m sure it happens, and it’s not impossible, but I don’t see much of it in my own life.)

Maybe the apotheosis of the “pack it in” guys is Neil Strauss, since he wrote The Game and then wrote The Truth, which can be read many ways… one being that he got tired of the game. His own psychology or biology were tired of the chase.

Granted, he is also a famous millionaire and married a 20-something swimsuit model. [Addendum: He seems also to have filed for divorce, so so much for that example.]

We have two classes of guys so far: the ones just looking for an okay girlfriend, then the ones who do it for three to ten years before deciding to have kids or otherwise change.

Then there are guys who are in it for the long haul.

They are the guys who write the most intense blogs for the longest period of time. Then the blog becomes fodder for a book. Most guys write for a while then disappear into monogamy or kids… or boredom with only speaking to pseudonymous guys online: I’m likely to disappear at some point; I don’t make money doing this, will never start a coaching business, and will probably run out of stuff to say. Yes, there is daily outrage against men in the news, and I’m prone to writing about that, but I think I will quit due to diminishing returns.

The long haul guys are Krauser, Tom Torero, Blackdragon, probably some other guys I’m not aware of (although Blackdragon is writing more about relationships and less about game as such). Leave comments with others I’m leaving out. For them game seems like a total life practice and purpose, not a phase. Seduction is their art. Or their demon.

Art or demon? In a comment to another post, I said that I wonder about the psychology of some of the hardest-core game guys. Neil Strauss wrote about his own psychological demons in The Truth. Tucker Max isn’t exactly a game guy but he too has written about his demons, especially as they relate to his messed-up mother. Krauser has written about his domineering mother too (very similar to Max and Strauss, and this may be a pattern worth exploring). I don’t want to go all Freudian, but I have to think about whether some of the more extreme cases come from bad places in childhood.

And, specifically, from men with bad mothers. Max, or his therapist, thinks there’s a psychological pattern. Does it take being somewhat messed up to really succeed at the highest levels of conscious game? Nash’s post “Tom Torero is a Thief | Street Hustle Book Review” got me thinking about these issues… be sure to read the fruitful comments on that post. I don’t know what to make of the post because I don’t know Torero personally and he doesn’t seem immediately slimy to me, but what Nash says isn’t impossible.

Psychological explanations about declining long-term game motivation, loneliness, and a desire for substance are easy to dismiss as “blue pill” thinking, but I don’t think all of psychology is “blue pill.” I don’t even think the drive to pair-bond, which most people experience in various ways, is BP. Many BP guys suffer from oneitis because they can’t do any better, but some RP guys get tired of the game, of female bullshit, and the tedium of the chase. Even the joy of sleeping with a new chick can become a drug. Drug metaphors are common in game. Drugs can lead to abuse and the need for abstention and, ultimately, recovery.

To guys who’ve never had a lot of women, the last paragraph may sound like BS. So be it. Unless you’ve had five+ years of active game or sexual success, though, I don’t want to hear your arguments.

Get the experience, then you can tell me it’s BS.

Actually, I want you to have five+ years and be over age 30. Contemporary guys aren’t ready to have families and that kind of thing until at least age 30, more likely age 35. If you are age 21 or 26… talk to me in ten years. Enjoy chasing skirt today.

This has turned into a hell of a ramble post, but I’m going to keep going.

Almost all the guys in game, or realistically writing about game because I don’t know anything about the guys whose writing I haven’t encountered, have a common narrative: they were sexual nobodies or nonstarters in high school and usually college. Some didn’t get going in earnest until age 30 or later. Often they were or are jealous of their more successful-seeming rivals. Usually they don’t understand women’s feral sexual nature and are shocked to discover it, as shocked as Europeans finding the new world. They don’t understand that evolutionary psychology compels women to have an official purity narrative layered on top of their actual sex drive and behaviors. They learn game and change their lives enormously.

That is a common narrative for guys and it isn’t my narrative. I’m coming from a world where I’ve probably had above-average success for most of my life. I’ve had struggles and I still struggle, and I am not laying chicks like a Hollywood actor, but I have done and am doing fine. Positive feelings and thinking tends to beget more positive feeling and thinking. To me, game formalized a lot of things I already sensed and helped me improve weak points. But I am not reacting against extreme failures in my past.

So my past and key reference experiences are different than the game guys I’ve read. I did “okay” in high school. At the time I perceived it to be below average, but now I realize I was above average, though not at the very peak. In retrospect I had a lot of problems with pedestalizing, weak eye contact, and, during initial encounters, subservient behaviors. But I had a lot of advantages from sports teams, reading, and decent willingness to approach (what would now be called “warm approach” in a school, university, or work environment). Given enough green lights I would escalate up to sex. I had a reasonable number of what I would now call positive reference experiences.

In college no one knew about “the game,” and while I wouldn’t call myself one of the ultra-high-achieving naturals, I did fine. I kept up with sports discipline, so I looked better than most guys. I did the default baggy college guy outfit and although it worked fine in retrospect I should’ve tuned what I wore better. I relied on pure body more than fashion. I also wish I’d learned about black iron compound lifting earlier. At the time I believed that fancy Nautilus machines were safer and better. They’re more advanced and technological, right? WRONG. But I didn’t know better at the time. I also thought fat was bad and carbs were good, because that was the dominant thinking at the time and the government must be right. Fat makes you fat, right?

Hahahaha, I know, in retrospect I’m laughing at my naiveté too. I didn’t know any better. Neither did many other people.

But I tolerated rejection well and by the time I was in college I had a pretty simple setup: I figured out early on that I should stock beer, vodka, and a mixer. My strategy was simple: “Come over to the dorm [or house] for a beer later.” Drink a beer or two, listen to music, watch a movie, escalate. When you are surrounded by young hot unencumbered girls… a minimal amount of game can be very powerful.

I bobbled lots of stuff and didn’t persist through LMR. One of the most beautiful girls I ever tried for came over, took off her shirt, but said no to more, and for some reason I just stopped pursuing her. Years later she said she had a huge crush on me and wanted to know why I didn’t like her back. I told her that I didn’t think she liked me.

There are many other missed opportunity stories I could tell, but I had a strategy of sorts that was good enough and it was better than most guys. Game is often like running from a bear: you don’t have to be the fastest, you just have to be faster than the other guys. College guys are real slow. I’m sure that if I posted many of the things I did and said to the Internet, an army of couch-PUAs would tell me everything I did wrong, but it worked well enough.

Colleges basically set up warm approaches. Middle class and middle class+ college kids also have nothing better to do besides sit around and gossip, so I got a reputation as a “player,” which of course helped me with like 80% of girls. The reputation wasn’t really deserved, since I just ran the simple algorithm, but I wasn’t complaining either.

I also didn’t know how to keep girls on rotation, so if a girl wanted to be my “girlfriend” I would say yes, and “be her boyfriend,” most often until I got bored with her, at which point I’d suddenly break up with her and she would cry, because I didn’t know how to set appropriate expectations. Or she’d eventually catch me with another girl and get angry. I had a couple of those sitcom-y conversations where the girl would say, “But you’re my boyfriend, how could you do this to me?” and I would reply, “Because I knew that if I didn’t, you wouldn’t have sex with me | would stop having sex with me.” She would be… confused, more than anything, I think.

The right answer, of course, is to say, “I’m seeking something casual and we’re both in college and we’re too young to get serious,” but I wasn’t that sophisticated and back then no one was talking about poly or open relationships. I did intuit how to be sex positive, albeit without knowing that term. Not slut-shaming girls and being the chill guy they can come to for sex that won’t get back to their friends was super smart.

I also had not come to my fundamental realization, that there are really only two kinds of relationships: relationships with a woman with whom you plan to have kids, and all other kinds of relationships. When I came to understand that, much became clear that had previously been mysterious.

Because of my sex-or-nothing attitude in later college, I became a somewhat polarizing person, because I eventually learned not to be faux friends with girls I actually wanted to sleep with. At the start of college I was… not so good at this and did some embarrassing things.

After college I somehow got the idea that it was time to “get serious” and “settle down.” Don’t ask me how or why. I don’t know. That led me to (unintentionally) having kids too early, which worked itself out eventually but caused a lot of drama at the time.

Overall I did well for a long time and that must have affected me and my expectations. Like I said, at the time I didn’t know about the joy of the barbell, and I didn’t formally know or intuitively understand that neither men nor women have much control over who they’re attracted to. Women’s attraction is often sub-verbal, visceral, and not optional.

Evolutionary biology is the foundation of game: a fact so important that I have to keep saying it. Attraction starts of course with looks and the body, which is why every RP and game writer says that lifting (or any exercise really) is such a vital place to start. Women don’t have much control over attraction, so maximize what you can control. That starts with the body’s motions and what a guy puts in his body.

It doesn’t end there and I’ve seen really attractive guys underperform because of personality flaws, being too passive/needy, etc. Having the whole package is best but not an option for most guys, since we just have to develop what we have.

The other side, of course, is that men only have so much choice in who we’re attracted to. Women wear makeup, hit the gym, choose high heels, etc. because they know they’re in competition for the very top guys. Every time I read a woman write about how women should quit high heels I laugh. Go ahead and do it… but your competitors won’t… and their raised, wiggling asses will attract the eyes of men.

Women know guys like youth, health, fertility cues, etc., even if no woman who isn’t an evolutionary biologist would use those terms. A given woman may defect from optimal strategy but if she does the higher-value guys will get taken by women who don’t defect, so the vast majority of women conform to male preferences. Just like guys who want to get laid conform to female preferences. You may have seen defectors who cut their hair short, quit shaving, and go vegan. Actually I only see them if they’re in my way, otherwise they’re pretty much invisible to me, like they are to the vast majority of straight guys.

Part of the game is learning those opposite-sex preferences. I didn’t know them in high school or college but I learned them well enough, and the formal component came later. It’s not necessary to know the formal component (virtually no men who have ever lived and reproduced knew it) but it will help, just like it’s possible to dominate a high school basketball court without lifting, but lifting will make any athlete better.

I wonder about the psychological effects of being a relative outcast during the formative years. I have my own psychological quirks, I’m sure, but they don’t stem from utter failure when I was young, which seems like such a common game origin story. A lot of guys who get into game at age 30+ may be going through a phase that I started when I was like age 18.

This is not a “shame guys” post, as I think everyone should pursue happiness and satisfaction as they see fit. In some sense I will likely always be in the game as long as I am physically viable, since I’m not interested in monogamy and likely never will be.

That said I do wonder. How much tail does one need before one is basically satiated? When I am 50 or 55 or 60 will I still want to be stopping women and saying that I have to say that they’re cute, but they look like they’re ready for a yoga class? Are they poseurs or really going? Etc. I have seen the old people at the sex clubs and they don’t seem to be having fun and few of the younger people want them there.

Like most normal people, I’m also subject to feelings of loneliness. Friends help with that but friends are not a panacea. I’ve chosen a weirder life course than most people around me, and that makes having friends and maintaining friendships harder. Most people around me are married. Those who aren’t, are almost all divorced (and then most often re-married). I’m the guy at weddings and holidays without a spouse… or with an “inappropriate” date. Yes, I know that I shouldn’t care and should be a proud lone wolf, but I haven’t gotten to where I am in the business world by ignoring social cues. Almost no one gets to the top alone. The further up you go, the more soft and people skills matter. I’m good enough to mostly get away with my other life, but I can also listen to what people say.

I don’t think I have the psychology necessary to be permanently in the game. I wonder about the guys who are in it for decades. Do they get bored? Do they wonder if there’s anything greater out there? Have their formative experiences so scarred them that, once in game, they can’t get out? I’m clearly not anti-game or anti-sex, but I wonder about these issues. Maybe I’m in a weird place because I’ve also already done some of the empire-building that is common to guys starting around ages 35 – 40.

I also have kids I love and a job and no desire to turn game into money. I don’t see sex as a validation of who or what I am. That’s part of the reason I’m happy paying for it, if the circumstances are right. Though I haven’t paid for it for a while, because I’ve been seeing women pretty steadily. To me paying or not paying for it isn’t a matter of pride. To me, the physical pleasure of sex is the best part. I’m susceptible to that feeling of intimacy and closeness that comes from sex, even though my conscious self knows it’s a lie. I don’t chase skirt for the ego trip (as best I can tell). There seem to be some number of guys writing about the game who want to f**k pretty girls just to see if they can and just to then say that they can do it. My motivations are more immediate and physical.

Most of the guys I know who have kids and a strong relationship are much more pleased than the guys without. I think we evolved to live around families and to raise kids. A lot of people who never do that, something is either wrong with their heads from an early age or goes wrong as the loneliness of transient f**ks messes with their heads over time. I use the phrase “a lot of people” instead of “all people” deliberately: you may be an exception. In human affairs, there are always exceptions. You may also be lying to yourself and thinking you are the exception. Most of this ramble is targeted at guys over age 30 and likely over age 35. If you are 25 and have gotten this far, just bookmark this page and come back to it in five or ten years. For now, go bang all the hot chicks you can. Younger guys need the experience and need to get the call of the wild out of their systems.

Older guys, though, older guys who have been plowing a lot of chicks… who find themselves looking at the ceiling after the latest random is passing out next to him… who want to build the future by having a family… you guys are wondering about the long-term psychology, like I am. This ramble is for you. It does not tell you what to do, for that is not my way. It does attempt to help you think about what the good life is. The good life at age 24, may not be the good life at age 40. Maybe, though, you are a pickup artist. Artists are often maniacs, obsessed with their art until they die. If that is you, so be it.

Can We Be Honest About Women? Women love the sexual interplay they experience with men

Can We Be Honest About Women? Here’s a little secret we have to say out loud: Women love the sexual interplay they experience with men, and they relish men desiring their beauty.” This is a “no-shit” article and I wish the mainstream media were not so chickenshit as to refuse to take up its theme.

This is also a reminder to GET OFF the internet. The internet is not the real world. In the real world, normal women LOVE men and men are equally enamored of women. Guys who learn game should slough off hate, hit the gym, and enjoy the fact that 98% of women love flirting, love guys, and are fantasizing about and looking for sex.

“The Takedown of Title IX:” The horror show on college campuses

The Takedown of Title IX” is overdue. College campuses have become frenzied hothouses of false rape allegations, and on campus Title IX has become a tool of iniquity. It should be repealed altogether.

Something funny happened on the way to the courtroom, though: men started to realize that they could sue schools for Title IX violations. Now that schools actively discriminate against men and persecute men, Title IX can become a weapon that men use.

It sucks to write a paragraph like the paragraph above, but above all else it’s important to speak the truth.

Men need to read The Myth of Male Power. Modern feminism is wrong; men are exploited by the larger culture and then told that women win the oppression olympics. The feminist worldview is wrong, but I would also discourage men from seeing themselves as victims. But men need to understand the world we live in.

Men also need to learn game. Game is not a perfect antidote to false rape accusations, but you can bet that it’s rarely the highest-status guys who get accused.

 

The perils of younger women

Last night I slept with a woman I first met a while ago, from this story. We met when she was on a bad date (I’ve actually picked up a couple women this way). She was in her early 40s, still very lithe, but no honest guy prefers a woman in her early 40s to a woman in her 20s, all else being equal, for sex. There are obviously fatties in their 20s and some women are still cute in their 40s, but on average the 2o-something wins.

Between the last time I saw her and now, this woman got in a semi-serious relationship with another guy and the relationship fizzled, so she sent a “how are you?” feeler text to me, we got drinks, and then the usual.

But I wasn’t that excited about her. Bike Girl is in her 20s and man, after getting used to an attractive woman in her 20s, going back to a 40+ woman is hard. Harder than it should be. Objectively this one is still attractive. If I’d not had sex for a week, I’m sure I’d have been all over her. But with Bike Girl eager for sex even more often than I am, I just didn’t have the umph necessary to make it work, and I think lithe former dancer knew as much.

This one also has something sad about her. She was in a 10+ year relationship and it was never the “right time” to have kids. Reading between the lines, I think she just got bored of her guy, and vice-versa. She basically blew her fertility window on nothing. I meet a lot of women like this. They usually have one LTR that “didn’t work out” or some similar female nonsense and deeply regret not having kids. Or they’re furiously trying to find a guy to have kids with, but they’re finding that their whole dating market structure changed a lot, without them really noticing, between 22 and 35. None have read an older article, “Marry Him! The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough,” because they’re too busy with Cosmo or whatever other dumb shit most women read.

Enough of that. The last ten or so cold approaches I’ve done (a couple on the street, one in a grocery store, a couple in coffee shops) have gone nowhere. A couple of weak numbers. I may lack the necessary intent. And the time.

Bike Girl is also getting more comfortable with non-monogamy. We had the foursome, and soon we’re going to try a MFM threeway with my “threesome buddy.” He’s into the non-monogamy swinging community and we’ve done this many times before. Bike Girl is apprehensive, but in a cute way. She says she’s never met anyone like me before, but I tell her, truthfully, that she likely has, but without recognizing it.

I do think I’m making her a little too insecure for non-monogamy.

Of course, it’s also possible that she’s seeing someone on the side and not telling me. I learned a long time ago that there is no such thing as “not that kind of girl.” Or if there is, I (and men in general) can’t reliably distinguish between “not that kind of girl” and “that kind of girl.”

Girls are also experts at compartmentalizing. Most guys don’t know this or don’t want to know it. They prefer a “purity” fantasy. Ha.

Haha.

I started this post about the older woman and almost immediately shifted it to being about other women, so I suppose that’s all I need to know about that.