“The Woman Worried She’ll Never Meet Her Polyamorous Boyfriend’s Parents”

The Woman Worried She’ll Never Meet Her Polyamorous Boyfriend’s Parents” might be an example of a guy doing polyamory from the superior position. He’s f**king at least two women. The one writing the story is deeply into him. She seems to be retained without too much work on his end. Without the polyamorous frame, she would probably not be f**king him as regularly or easily.

I don’t want to make too much of this story because, without knowing more about the looks of everyone involved, and other aspects of the guy’s situation, he could be acting from a pretty inferior position. Based on the information provided, though, he seems to have at least two chicks well inside his frame.

More women are being psychologically prepped for open relationships by articles like this. Guys should be considering whether they want to present this kind of frame.

Sonny Arvado and Pancake Mouse on the image match and reciprocity

This turned into a ramble post… enter at your own risk.

I read 29 Truths About Game because of Pancake Mouse’s link, and it is an interesting post very much in the vein of Good Looking Loser (it sounds like Chris from GLL and even reads like it at times). Sonny Arvado is very much of the “get jacked and go hit on chicks” school. I notice this: “the Karmic Laws of the Universe are pretty airtight” and “People tend to get their IMAGE MATCH. They date people on a similar level in the eyes of society.” This seems mostly true. It’s very uncommon to see incredibly disparate people together. When you do see it, it stands out. When I brought Ms. Slav to Thanksgiving, we stood out… she is too young for me in the eyes of most people, so we made no sense together. But she feels much more mature for her age than most chicks her age, and I… well, I am the “black sheep” in many ways. SA Girl and some other chicks from my life have been like this too. The older I get… the wider the age spread gets… the more I experience this disjunction.

BUT: I also stand out among my peer group. I am more serious about diet and lifting than pretty much anyone else I know. I watch less TV and do less social media than pretty much anyone else I know who is my age and younger. I’m not sure that these young tight chicks are my “image match.” But there is less separation between us than there is for most guys my age and younger chicks. This is why game people say guys need to work on value and value delivery mechanisms together. Only do value, and you are on the self-improvement hamster wheel instead of getting laid. Only do value delivery, and if you don’t have underlying value, most hotter chicks will blow you off.

It helps to have a life that is somewhat, a little bit together. I have met chicks whose lives are not going well. They are not fun to be around, even when they are physically attractive. Their desperation manifests itself, sometimes in strange ways. Bike Girl was a little bit like this. Her life was okay but she had no career, at an age when career-focused girls (and guys) are really starting to ascend, and people who focus on partying and/or just drifting / dreaming / arts are starting to struggle or suffer. The older you are, the harder it is to be the party guy, without substantial financial resources. Not impossible, just harder. (All generalization I make should be seen as generalizations… I can think of exceptions to all of them.)

I have gone on some dates with chicks who admit their primary dating goal is getting a free meal because they have no money. I prefer later meets at alcohol venues… that avoids such chicks pretty easily.

The guys who completely neglect looks, though, pretty much suffer. We live in the wealthiest time period in human history. Most girls who want to be self-sufficient, will be self-sufficient, easily. Most attractive girls can sell sex any time they like, ranging from full-on sex to being a restaurant hostess. Attractive chicks don’t want or need money alone. Money and earning power is nice, layered on an attractive guy, but it is rarely enough. Maybe for guys with really spectacular amounts of money. Not for guys who are anywhere near normal. And a guy who is “money first” will at best attract girls who feel the same. Not a smart thing. The best girls are typically looking for the “full package.”

One advantage with younger girls is that they rarely reek of desperations (“rarely” is not “never,” like girls trying to steal meals from stupid guys online). They may be making bad choices, but the bad choices haven’t yet caught up with them. Chicks in their late 20s to early 30s, often stew in their bad choices. I have dated some of these chicks, seen the hungry look in their eyes when they see me and think, “Okay, he’s dominant and non-pussy enough, but he’s also got a job… I should take this one and make him mine.” Hasn’t worked yet. I’m pretty lucky I’ve not gotten baby-trapped.

It’s also possible to change girls’s personalities, somewhat. Not totally. Most chicks who get with me find that they read more, they cook more, they work out more, and they spend somewhat less time in bars. They also go to different kinds of parties.

I have had consistent interesting challenges where girls want to go to generic concerts and I do not. Like, at all. I’m fine with chicks going to concerts, although I know that most people also use concerts to change their mental states and put them in a more sexual frame of mind. Chicks who like concerts or even worse music festivals very much go in my “low priority” box.

I’ve also never been much a nightgame guy. I just don’t like it. I find it boring and fake. One reason I like sex clubs is because I find them exciting and authentic (in the right circumstances, on the right nights… on the wrong night they are horrible and I leave). I did do some parties and bar things in my early to mid 20s, when my entire peer group was also doing those things, but they didn’t favor my personality much then and they REALLY don’t favor my personality much now.

Some young chicks find me boring, and they are pretty much right. A super high-energy chick who wants to go out three to five nights a week… is not going to like me much. And I’m not going to like her. Those kinds of girls also either have to be rich with family money, or they are going to burn out quickly. I’m not big on economically dysfunctional girls, as that is usually also an indication of psychological dysfunction. I can go there, but those girls will often not be into me.

Like finds like.

I like what Arvado says about “Like finds like.” Krauser’s story is interesting because he has some pictures of himself and his friend Mike in his memoirs, and they’re both fat. If not outright fat, at least tubby. Yet they seem to overcome some of their physical deficits through sheer effort. That’s pretty impressive to me. But they both meld their ENTIRE lives around pickup. Sounds hard and exhausting.

I do know a lot of people, but often through business. So hot young chicks who are party animals will find me boring. But young chicks who attend to more conventional status markers will like what they see, sometimes.

I like making and learning things.

I tend to like girls who are above-average in intelligence. I don’t mind average-intelligence girls, but they tend not to like me so much. A lot of girls who are most into me, find most guys kind of boring. I have been told a lot that I am strange because I’m very interested in body/physical development but am not a stupid meathead. Many girls seem to think they must have one or the other. As regular readers know I like some very unconventional things, and try to lead new girls into those things, which repels some girls but intensely attracts others. Girls have said they don’t know what box to put me in. That makes sense, actually. They are also seeing the results of someone who has spent almost no time watching TV, playing video games, or being on social media. When you cut out a lot of the crap and instead spend time learning and developing, you get interesting results. Uncommon results. Chicks are used to common guys, or guys who uncommon in a few specific ways. They are not used to guys who have focused on both mind and body. They are often a little wrong-footed as they get to know me.

Chicks also recognize that high-status guys are often on the market for pretty short periods of time. A chick has to act fast.

So this is a bit of a ramble. I don’t know how much you have to learn from Sonny, beyond GET JACKED and do the right diet… useful, sure. I have written before that there are some kind of silly debates between “inner” and “outer” game.

I find them silly because the two tend to feed into each other. Guys who improve their own psychologies tend to also improve their bodies, fashion, living situation, etc. Guys who lift, dress better, stand up straight, etc. tend to also improve their interior mental status. “Inner” and “outer” are recursive feedback loops. Work on them both. Let one influence the other. You can find guys with greater outer and no inner and vice-versa, they are just rare.

I have spent a lot of my life working on self development. When a chick is with me, I tend to try and help her work on her own self development too. Chicks who don’t want to do that, tend not to stay with me much. They get bored and leave.

Chicks tell me they can’t figure me out… I like that. I am not so complicated and don’t want to pretend to be. But most chicks, they seem to encounter guys who are all mind or all muscle (or neither). Then they find me… who is pretty hard to push around and has been for a while (I was easier to push around when I was younger and dumber).

I wonder if “Talking to Women” describes men today, too:

I have been reading a book, Talking to Women, published in 1965 and consisting of interviews with artsy Irish chicks. Many of their comments could be pulled from modern Red Pill writing. Let me take a look at some,

Sheila Rowbotham, in Promise of a Dream (2000), recalls how “little cultural space existed at this time for expressing the sexual freedoms emerging among young women of my generation. We were beginning to want relationships with men on quite new terms, yet were barely conscious of these needs.”

Today men have realized that marriage is foolish and that game is better than promising fidelity. Most women scorn fidelity except from the highest-status men, who are quite rare. It is much better to help women express their sexual freedoms and desires than it is to help women have children and a family. The whole society is set up to discourage children and family… yet many guys seem not to understand this. Yet. Despite the evidence all around them. Game writers are forging ahead and discovering fresh territory.

I suggest that men now offer relationships to women on quite new terms and I am part of that effort. No commitment, no little financial offerings, take-it-or-leave-it sex. Yet it turns out that most women do not like these terms so much as they might have thought. Especially at age 30+.

If these girls have anything in common it is a belief in personal fulfilment – that a woman’s life should not solely be the struggle to make men happy but more than that a progress towards the development of one’s body and soul.

If a woman believes that it is not her job to make you happy, then you should think the same of her (this is the vital principle of reciprocity that underlies human affairs). Yet women as a whole may be surprised when they find out that men as a whole take the same attitude towards them. That is not a good world to live in but it seems to be the one we are heading towards.

NELL Do you think it’s possible to stay with one man all your life?
PAULINE I think it’s possible.

What man wouldn’t sign up for marriage, with a ringing endorsement like Pauline’s?

NELL What do you think of the meaning of that expression ‘having a good time’ – what does ‘have a good time’ mean to you?
KATHY Well, going to parties and that sort of thing, mixing with people. Different people. Mostly all your friends, but then when you go to parties, there always is somebody different there. I like parties or going swimming and that sort of thing, sport, really. I get a lot of fun out of that, going out for the day and going swimming you know, a crowd of you, and having a drink and that type of thing.
NELL You prefer that really to a quiet life? A place and being in each night.
KAHTY Really, yes.

Don’t marry a Kathy. She was married for six years and divorced. A Kathy is for fun and sport, nothing more. Those kinds of girls have existed since forever. Many guys don’t understand that the Red Pill is not new. It’s quite old.

I have written extensively about non-monogamy, and here it is in 1965:

NELL Is sexual fidelity a hypocrisy that just doesn’t work?
FRANCES I’ve thought about it so much. There seem very few practical reasons for sexual fidelity in marriage – now there’s no danger of putting a cuckoo in the nest. And more than that, it’s a cumulative thing when the old laws break down, of people wishing to be independent, seeking desperately for their new identity.

Keep in mind however that these are artistic types for the most part, so they may not represent the body politic of women as a whole. Also, birth control is not 100% effective, even today, especially when it requires a daily pill, so that DNA testing is still wise. But Frances has a point, about how contraceptive technology and the curing of STIs weakens the need for monogamy. This is exciting to women who like having many partners and terrifying to women who want to try and lock down a top guy. He probably won’t be locked down as other women will give it to him, if he is attractive and has game. What I am doing is simply a logical extension of these basic principles.

They love f**king:

NELL How important do you think sex is?
ANTONIA It’s vastly important to me. If I’m frustrated I’m so incapable of doing anything. I feel unloved if I’m frustrated. I love making love so much, it’s one of the nicest things there is. And I so attach vast importance to it.

It’s strange to me when I read guys claim sex isn’t that vital to women. I think they just haven’t had enough experience. Or women show the side that the woman wants the guy to see. Women segment guys even more than guys segment women.

Lots of chicks have no idea what they want:

NELL Does the idea of freedom mean anything to you?
ANTONIA No, it doesn’t at all. Not at the moment. Living with Ben doesn’t, particularly. I’ve got as much freedom, more freedom than I want with Ben. I wish – this sort of business of personal freedom – I’d like him to be more possessive about me. Ont he other hand if I lived with someone who was more possessive, I’d hate it.

Chicks are incoherent and random. When I was younger I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why an individual chick had done some thing or not done some thing. Why did this chick say no to me? Why did this other, hotter chick f**k me like an animal almost immediately? There are patterns that are important for players to discern, but there is so much randomness.

The male desire algorithm is simple, as it calls for guys to f**k as many acceptable hot chicks as possible. The female desire algorithm is much more complex. Chicks often don’t know that they don’t know themselves. This chick, Antonia, acknowledges her own paradoxical nature, and even that is pretty random.

Guys need to be ready for the opportunities:

PADDY I think that some women they almost have to every now and then express themselves with some other man. They may not have work they’re particularly interested in and they’ve got all sorts of frustrations boiling inside them which they can only express by giving pleasure to another man. If they’re not a hundred per cent fulfilled by their own husband, what else can they do? And I can’t see that this is a sin at all.

No one is a hundred per cent fulfilled by their spouse. Paddy’s point, that a woman has to “express” herself “by giving pleasure to another man” is a key idea for guys: you should be ready to be that other guy. You should also not get married, as one day your lovely little wifey is going to want to express herself with another man. Though she not likely to express that to you first.

Almost all of the chicks in this book say sex is VERY IMPORTANT to them and in their relationships. If you sense a chick is uninterested in sex, chances are she is uninterested in sex with YOU and you should go find a chick who is interested in sex with you. A girl who is truly interested in sex with you and who gives no positive indicators is likely never going to be interested in sex with you, and you should quit wasting your time and go find a chick who is interested in you.

I think guys should read more material written by women; although much of it is self-serving and positioning pablum, some of it can be revealing.

The conversation has advanced much less than I would think. I don’t think most guys have a really strong sense of what women really like, think, and feel. Most guys have a sense of what women want men to think, not what women actually think. Most conventional movies and TV are designed to reinforce the lie, because the truth is too disturbing to the average person.

 

Ms. Slav flakes, Peaches, masculinity and polarity

Ms. Slav flaked on me earlier this week, sending me an elaborate message that I did not like, and I haven’t heard from her since. Like all people I don’t like flaking, and I really don’t like it an hour before we’re supposed to meet, as that prevents me from making alternate plans. I assume she’ll swing back around at some point, but who knows?

Cassie is drifting away, I think. I think I caught her early in her experience and she is refining what she wants. She may come to an event with me this weekend. Not counting on it.

Peaches told me some interesting things about her husband/marriage that are too specific to repeat, but they reinforce the basic ideas that 1) If you’re not f**king her properly and diligently, someone else will and 2) chicks love ambitious, accomplished dudes. Without getting into specifics, her husband seems to be moving from a sphere of great ambition and accomplishment to less ambition and accomplishment. For a woman, that is the equivalent of a chick getting fat. Guys don’t like it when their wives get fat, and chicks don’t like it when their guys lose their ambition.

In the manosphere, there are many supposed stories about evil, evil women ditching good, blameless guys. Some of the stories are true, I’m sure, but others are probably leaving out key details. Remember that we all have a narrative, and “Most people’s narratives leave some shit out. Whenever someone tells you some story, think about the dark matter of that story.” There are not many really evil people (or women) out there, and many of these one-sided stories are not as they seem.

Or, Peaches is just rationalizing her feelings. What she has said does make sense, though. I think she keeps getting involved with men who aren’t very masculine, setting herself for inevitable disappointment with grass-eating herbivores. Particularly when she runs into a guy like me. I’m not some macho Jocko Willink superman guy, but I have good masculine presence and polarity, which allows chicks to be feminine and submissive. This is particularly true in bed. Peaches said to me that she likes “Not having to decide what to do.” Something I have been told in the past, too.

Peaches is also a reminder that you should at least do a light check to see if married chicks or chicks in relationships are ready to cheat. Take enough shots, plausibly deniable shots depending on the circumstances, and you don’t know what you’ll find.

I have been meaning to get back in touch with Home Friend, the one who came via Ms. Slav, but I haven’t done so yet. I ought to.

I’ve been thinking about trying online dating again. I hold back because Peaches is holding up well. We went on a date with another woman, a unicorn, and f**ked her nicely. Can’t tell if the unicorn is going to stick around or not, but probably not, as I tried to get her out for a one-on-one unsuccessfully. I’m also not sure what I’m looking for, which isn’t good. Am I looking for more casual sex? Or am I looking to mostly exit that part of the game? I feel like I should clarify that question for myself. It is obviously possible to pursue casual sex while looking for something longer, but which side you prefer will shade your strategies and preferences.

In most areas, it also seems that online systems have a relatively small reservoir of good chicks in them. Big cities like NYC/LA may be the exception. Most cities smaller than that, it seems possible to exhaust the reservoir pretty quickly, and then need to wait a couple months for it to replenish. The best chicks log into online dating and find a guy pretty quickly.

I sometimes wonder if I know too much, now. With a lot of chicks, I feel like I spend weeks or months explaining how male-female relations actually work, why conventional marriage doesn’t work, what common relationship pitfalls are, how game theory works, etc. Books, talks, blah blah blah. Almost no chicks appear to know any of this. Most chicks seem to buy into the pop-culture idea of “love at first sight” (or pretty quickly) followed by happily ever after. No wonder we have the divorce rate we do. Pop culture reinforces pre-conceived notions about love at first sight, and then people try to do real-life relationships that way and go splat.

For Ms. Slav, not knowing any of this stuff is reasonable, because she is young and doesn’t know any better. For older women, not knowing any of this stuff is less acceptable but no less true. In the defense of women, it seems very few guys know this and tell women about it, either.

Cleaning house after the death: de-clutter and live your experience

I have a somewhat different view of physical objects and possessions than most people I know, maybe because I’ve been involved in cleaning out the houses of dead elderly relatives. I try to do a kind of minimalism. If an object is not being used regularly, I get rid of it. If I can replace a larger object with a smaller one, I try to do that (like moving from a DSLR camera to a mirrorless camera… some of you may protest that I can just use a phone, but I can’t, not while retaining anything like the image and video quality I desire and you should desire). As a person accumulates more stuff, he stops owning the stuff and the stuff starts owning him. I have written before that some of the best sex I’ve had and done occurred in a small studio apartment that had a bed, a couple of pots, some books, a desk, a computer, and not much else. Chicks would remark on the spartan decor after I’d f**ked them a few times. Sometimes the first time. I’d shrug and talk about how experiences are more valuable than possessions. The less you have, the more mobile you are.

About the dead relatives. Apart from cash and some sentimental photos, pretty much nothing they had was valuable. Their art that showcased their super-important taste and personalities… the carefully chosen furniture that had gone out of date and smelled like old people… their weird collections… it got trashed because it wasn’t of any real value. The person who died imagined its value, and their imaginary value died with them. It had meaning to the person who owned it, not to the other people. The advent of eBay and Amazon have made these problems even more acute. Turns out that most “antiques… ” no one gives a shit about them. A “collector’s item” is just a marketing ploy. People collect experiences, unique states of mind… those are the things that matter. What you can do matters. What you can do to make the world a better place matters. What you have, it doesn’t, except to you. Most chicks won’t be that impressed with it.

What I’m trying to say is, don’t get attached to stuff. Only think about what stuff does for you and how it enables you to live your best life. Too much stuff makes you immobile. Get rid of it. Read Marie Kondo. Focus on the game. Realize most women don’t care much about your stuff. They care about YOU.

Marie Kondo is big in the culture right now. I’m sure some of you are like, “A CHICK? I can’t listen to a CHICK.” In which case you have become like some of the feminists you claim to dislike. Anyway, point is that she has a book, now she has Netflix show, and it’s for a good reason. Most people have way too much shit.

That’s one mistake I haven’t made. I’ve made lots of mistakes.

Life is short. It’s a cliche but it’s also true. I didn’t appreciate that in my teens and 20s, like most people that age. The older you get, the more people you see die, the more real this becomes. It’s part of the reason I think guys age 35 – 40 start to want to have kids… you realize that you really are a temporary, transient phenomenon and you want to “pass the torch.” I feel grateful for a lot of what my family has done for me… it’s important to pass that on. One thing I’m hesitant about in the pickup / RP worlds is that a lot of guys seem to be filled with hate, with conniving, with a desire to con other people. I don’t feel that way. I don’t want to let other, unrelated people sap my value, but I also want to make the most of existence and to let other people exist too. Having more stuff, it doesn’t make your life better. It’s just encumbrances.

I see guys, they focus on how this couch or this piece of clothing or this other thing will help them get laid, and it doesn’t. Worst of all, I see them get married, try to give the wife the big house in the nice neighborhood… it doesn’t matter. In the divorce, she’ll keep it anyway. The right thing to do is buy less than you can afford… to think about what really matters in life… to make the most of what you already have. So few guys get here. So few guys understand that the woman doesn’t want his stuff, she wants him, and what his stuff is doesn’t really matter. It should be clean, and he should have a good space to f**k her in, beyond that it doesn’t matter.

The idea that we should horde stuff is a holdover from evolutionary history when stuff was rare and valuable. It’s a holdover from childhood, when more was better (because kids are stupid). It’s not a useful belief for employed adults. The desire for stuff lets us fall prey to marketers. This is a point in Geoffrey Miller, Spent: Sex, Evolution, and Consumer Behavior, a book everyone but especially guys in the game should read. The #1 way marketers sell stuff is by implying that it will improve your sex life. In fact, most physical stuff will not improve your sex life. Instead of being convinced that stuff will improve your sex life, skip straight to the things that will actually improve your sex life, that have been described here many times and that are available in the links in the sidebar. Having a good body, a good mind, a mission in life, and real skills are 100x more attractive to most women than having a lot of money or a lot of stuff. Stuff is clutter that one day someone like me is going to have to go through and junk.

“50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat”

50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat.” Thus, we have a nation of fatties today. You should quit sugar. I have a problem with my desire for dark chocolate, but I work against it, knowing that sugar is probably the worst thing people commonly ingest.

Veering into the dark zone of female psychology

From the conclusion of a long dating saga:

She does like to be molested. It’s quite obvious.

Did she want me to push even harder? Did she want me to “take” her virginity. If she didn’t want it at the level of her “fore brain,” did she want it in an animal way… at the level of her “hind brain?”

I think she did. I have met girls like this, who can be can be very dangerous and who are also totally invisible to the modern feminist ethos, like so many truths about male-female polarity. Girls who say one thing, but want another. This is the sort of place even I don’t want to go, online, as it is too incendiary, but I’m drawing attention now because I’ve seen these girls happen, in real life.

It’s a part of the “Women don’t like responsibility or having to make choices” theme that I have written about… many women, maybe most, don’t want to be responsible for their sexual decisions, and some take that fundamental desire to be led further than they should. They emit these “invitations” to go “too far” in a way they are not responsible for. They put themselves into the situation where “it just happens,” while later they will say, probably to themselves too, that they don’t know how it happened. They go to the situation, only to be able to have some psychological ability to deny what happens, afterwards.

I have touched a little bit on these thoughts, and they are why  why I don’t believe a lot of the stories women tell me, and I believe even less about the stories in the media. Usually there is complicity. Unacknowledged, of course. Chicks often don’t understand their own psychologies… they can’t… it’s part of their evolved strategy.

This chick sounds like she is complicit and does not wish to take responsibility for what she does. She wants you to, and you alone. But that is very dangerous, probably unwise, in a foreign country, where you don’t know the justice system, where you don’t know that much about her family situations, etc., unless I missed part of the story (it is a very long story… in my view, Nash does too much texting, although I believe that it didn’t matter in this case).

If you read books of women’s sexual fantasies, like Nancy Friday’s collections, you will find fantasies that are illegal, that include illegal elements. If you read romance novels, you will often find the same. In romance novels, the heroine is often “taken” and taken superficially “against her will…” but by a high-status, attractive man who will then pledge himself to her. That is an interesting element in porn made for and by women, an element that almost no one in mainstream culture talks about.

I do not advocate any of the ideas or strategies I am skirting here. I don’t want to go here. It’s too dark, especially for readers who are in a “cold” state.

Nash thinks my reading of the girl is wrong: “I don’t happen to think this is it. I believe that concept is true… but she wasn’t looking for ‘deniability,’ she was turned on me pushing her boundaries. That is a different phenomenon.” He further says

I want to be careful that I don’t miss parts of this that are about me not being willing to pull the trigger… but with her, I think she was actually so young, she wasn’t quite ready. I believe that really was the first time she’d been in that position. I saw when she was genuinely close to fear. Not because I wasn’t being cool… but because it was so new.

And she was adjusting fast. Like her reaction to my cock the first time was close to panic. 2nd time, nervous avoidance. 3rd time… she was fascinated. That is a sexual learning curve.

He was there and I wasn’t. But I know and have encountered the types of girls I describe, even if this girl isn’t one. There is one other guy in the comments pushing in the dark direction I mention.