“But this other guy says…”

There’s a genre of response to game and RP writing that goes, “But this other guy says x and you say y, what gives? Is he right? Don’t you want to be right?” Some guy read “Anyone doing any online dating needs to learn basic photography skills” and also read Goldmund saying that online dating is shit.

You know what? Good for Goldmund. He should do the things that work for him. There are many bad things about online dating including stealth fatties (probably the most common), psychos, delusional people, and rampant entitlement. There just a short list. Look around the Internet and you will find a million online dating horror stories.

It’s also absolutely true that guys doing daygame or just game in general will on average find hotter girls, many of whom aren’t online. Part of game is cutting through life’s noise.

Don’t believe everything you read online and try things yourself. In my view, Red Pill thinking is about giving guys the tools to think about their lives and make the changes necessary to succeed—whatever “success” means in their life. If online dating works, and it’s hard to do well for all but the absurdly attractive, then great. If it doesn’t, then don’t do it. I’ve learned through a lot of trial and error what works and what doesn’t. Over more than a decade I’ve built up the photography skills and lifestyle to make it work for me. Sometimes, somewhat.

What do you need? I have no idea. I’ve never met you and know zero about you. Life is so full of richness and context that I see these absurd threads online where guys ask this or that, and often I’m like, “Without knowing so, so much more about you, I have no idea.” That’s part of the reason I like game writers who also write books: the good books break down so much material in a way that can’t be done in 300 word chunks on forums.

I’m not here to tell anyone how to live their life, but I am sharing some of the things I’ve learned or think I’ve learned. Some of them are probably wrong, which is why you need to try things for yourself. I also have weaknesses of my own and am sure that my own game is technically weaker than many of the guys in the sidebar. That’s why they’re listed in the sidebar.

I’m not a woman screeching about how the other guy is WRONG WRONG WRONG and don’t you think so too, Katelyn, right, tell me Katelyn, how WRONG is that?!? Like I said, try things for yourself. Think for yourself. I don’t have all the answers. I am not a guru. I can only encourage you to read for yourself, think about your goals, and take action to pursue them. You will learn more from one hour on the streets than in ten hours of reading guys online.

Any kind of success in a significant field comes from the mastery of many details. It’s rarely, maybe never, the single detail that matters. It’s putting them together the right way. That’s why most guys who write about game emphasize style, fit, hobbies, development, storytelling, escalation, overcoming AA, getting finances in order, lifting, logistics, and a couple of other topics. Lots of guys get one or two of those things right. Putting them all together in the right way is what wins.

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Guys, branch swinging, and the low-effort shot

This morning I chatted up a girl in a coffeeshop whose order was screwed up. Don’t remember everything I said but I told her that it sucks to be at the stage of your career when you’re getting other people coffee. It was a cold read but a true one. We chatted for a bit and I told her to give me her number and we’ll get together sometime. She said she had a boyfriend, I said that’s okay, and she laughed and still said no.

A completely normal interaction, but I thought about it because I’ve been seeing Bike Girl but I still want to keep my skills somewhat sharp. Approach and escalation skills can deteriorate fast.

It’s also good to take the random shots that show up in your life because you never know when one might succeed. Around the time I started writing about the Red Pill I was closing out a relationship with a girl who I started seeing when she was 19. That was a low-effort shot and I happened to snare a “yes girl” who was looking for something exciting in her life. She was (and likely still is) the somewhat rare girl who is considerably hotter nude than clothed; clothed I judge her a center-of-the-road 7, and nude I judge her a high 8 (if she learns how to dress better she will get more and high-quality male attention).

We saw each other for about a year and a half. Like some other girls she required very little “game.” Well, apart from status, style, frame, posture… all the pre-reqs. Point is, it’s always a good idea to take the low effort shots when they appear. Sometimes the girls are ready for something new in their life. This morning’s girl wasn’t, but if I’d met her at another point she might’ve been.

I’m seeing Bike Girl, but just as girls “branch swing” into new relationships, it’s useful for guys to test their place in the sexual marketplace too. Not necessarily for a better offer, not automatically, but to see who is reacting and how they’re reacting. Girls can sense a guy with options and when you take the easy shot you make sure, first of all to yourself, that you have options.

Sex clubs, swingers, and game

I’m sure that some of you read #8 in “Why so many women cheat on their husbands” and were like, “LOL What? No.” That’s okay, it’s cool. It’s not for everybody. But I’m surprised I’ve not read any of the better game writers confront this subject. Lots write about threeways (there are a bunch of stories about them in Tom Torero’s very good book Daygame)  but none I think have gone this far. Am I missing a game writer who has gone this road? If I have shoot me a comment.

So I wrote more about non-monogamy on Reddit, replying to a comment, and I forgot to copy it here:

This one is harder, but in my opinion it’s more honest. About a quarter of girls dump me or flat out refuse when I mention it. About a quarter are gung-ho. About half are ambivalent. I don’t think it’s wise to bring it up until you’ve been sleeping together for a while and she’s firmly converted into your frame. Three very good sex sessions is a rule of thumb for strong conversion, but every guy must learn for himself what this means. Some girls are also fundamentally non-monogamous in a masculine sort of way and they will never be deeply converted. Some guys don’t want to recognize this but it’s true.

So I bring up the game and non-monogamy thing because Neil Strauss’s Game sequel, The Truth (a great book you should also read even if you disagree with the end), has him exploring non-monogamy:

I look up and see a yoga stud from Kamala’s pod.

“Have you rounded up any more girls?” the orbiter asks him.

Kamala Devi and Shamal Helena said polyamory was about loving relationships, not casual sex. But these guys seem more like next-level pickup artists, coming to these conferences with the intention of sucking any available women into their powerful reality.

These guys seem more like next-level pickup artists:” let that sink in.

I personally have never seen attractive polyamorous people. But I have seen lots of attractive open relationship people, and when the guy is driving it can be very powerful. Granted, some of the girls in that scene are more psycho than average. The people deepest in, I stay away from. But some of them are fantastic. Remember that there is no escape from frame or SMV. If the former is strong and the latter is high it can be next-level game.

I’ve not written comprehensively about open relationships and game but I did talk about them in Women want to follow your lead: a story about a woman presenting two ways.

When I have time I will write more. Guys who are doing right are trading hot women. That’s it. Value for value. Obviously people try to defect but defectors can be punished.

Later add: Commenter Magnum says this guy Blackdragon writes about it. Will check his stuff out.

“Why so many women cheat on their husbands”

I love it when the Red Pill leaks into the larger media, as it does in “Why so many women cheat on their husbands: Women are cheating more than ever. So what does that tell us about marriage?” I’m tempted to answer, “Who cares? The important thing guys need to know is simple: Don’t get married. No marriage, no problem.” Which is true, but there are a few deeper lessons.

  1. Be the guy she cheats with, not the guy she cheats on. All guys specialize to some degree in being the provider guy or the bad boy sex guy. In today’s society the latter wins. Women make more money than ever and are more independent than ever. Even women who don’t make any money would still rather sleep with fun bad boys. So specialize accordingly.
  2. Evolutionary biology underpins game. Learn it and understand it. In a resource-constrained society, provider guys are much more likely to win and fun-loving bad boys are much more likely to die (unless they’re rich). That describes a lot of human history since the development of agriculture, but it sure doesn’t describe today.
  3. Hit the gym. Pretty obvious.
  4. Learn game.
  5. Always with the paternity test. You never really know it’s yours until the DNA says as much.
  6. Don’t get married, but you already know that.
  7. Don’t be her emotional tampon:

Not long after, another told me that while she’d never had sex with another man, she’d had so many emotional affairs and inappropriate email correspondences over the years that she’d had to buy a separate hard drive to store them all.

Always move to the physical and if you can’t get there, cut her off. I’ve had women like these, who love the thrill but won’t go the distance. Get rid of them. Up or out.

8. Because she’s never yours and it’s only your turn, I actually prefer consensual, mutual non-monogamy in the form of swinging and sex clubs. To me they’re more fun and more honest than pretending to be monogamous and then not doing that. Most guys who go have no game, so they always bring the same person; if you bring different hot girls into that atmosphere you will have your pick.

Frame control technique: “You only get to ask one question, then I get a question!”

I met a couple of bike girl‘s friends tonight and one in particular kept shit testing me, hard (which is weird because bike girl does almost no shit testing, and I like that, a lot, about her). I used a favorite technique for redirecting conversation: when a bunch of rapid fire questions come in a row, announce, “You get a question, then I get a question.” Kind of like the trade-off in truth or date.

Delivered correctly, this will often redirect the conversation, and the shit test will be forgotten. Tonight, one of the friends wanted to know my age, and I gave some variant of my favorite shit answer (“old enough to know better but young enough not to care”). This, along with some other stuff, got her riled, but I actually did pretty well by treating her like a puppy. When she called me condescending I just shrugged, nodded, and smiled a little. At some point she gave me some bullshit again and I pulled another favorite line that I’ve been tinkering with over the past couple years, “What can I say? I’m used to giving people orders.”

It leads either to a subject change or a great set of follow-ups. It’s also somewhat true in my case. I wish I hadn’t fallen for so many shit tests in high school and college, but back then no one openly discussed them and there was no “game” like there is now.

I see that Tom Torero has a podcast about shit tests as well. Probably a good listen for anyone with shit tests as a sticking point. I’m not that good at them most of the time, but I am very good at being non-reactive (a side effect of not being good at neutrality when I was younger and would rise to the bait).

Don’t believe everything you’re told:

The Queen of Oversharing: The personal essay may be over—but Joyce Maynard isn’t,”

Her first husband and her three children are Snowy to her Tintin: reliable sidekicks yoked to the central character for the length of the run. The husband spent the duration of her 1980s syndicated column, “Domestic Affairs,” as the ideal partner; in the ’90s (after the divorce) he was revealed in subsequent essays and books as a cruel bastard who pressured her to get an abortion and filed a motion to have her declared an unfit mother. Lately, he has emerged as the co-victim of a bad union, as she has confessed that she actually had a long affair with his close friend.

Everyone has a narrative. Most people’s narratives leave some shit out. Whenever someone tells you some story, think about the dark matter of that story. This goes doubly for anything relating to abuse or “abuse,” which are both trendy these days.

For some reason, at least half a dozen women have told me on first dates or near first dates about abuse or “abuse,” and with every one of them I did the same thing: no more dates, no more escalation. Don’t need that shit. If she’s sharing it inappropriately early, run.

Some guys are assholes. Some women are too. But be pretty cagey about anyone who paints their ex as a total demon. If the ex is a demon, why did she (or sometimes he) date him in the first place? There’s some shit there that’s not being revealed.

Maynard also reiterates a common theme you’ve heard before: don’t get married, cause you never know whether she’s going to have a long affair with someone. I wonder if that guy’s kids are even his.

I’m starting to think that women are more RP than men, to guys who are paying attention. Which most of us aren’t.

Sociologist Mark Regnerus: ‘Cheap sex’ is making men give up on marriage

“Cheap sex is making men give up on marriage” is the article, and it should not surprise most guys reading here who have followed the community over the last couple years. His book is Cheap Sex: The Transformation of Men, Marriage, and Monogamy.

In today’s dating market men can specialize in being the guy girls want to fuck or the guy they think they should want to marry. Or more realistically neither, but let’s ignore that for now. It is of course possible to do both but trade offs exist in the real world and most guys are better off specializing in being the fuck boy.

While women bemoan the lack “eligible” men, they actually mean that they want a guy who can fuck all the girls he wants but for some reason her magical pussy makes him monogamous to her and makes him want to transfer lots of financial and other resources to her, with basically nothing in return. Guys are waking up to how terrible a deal this is. If one woman walks, she’ll be replaced by another. Guys who know they can get laid live a very different life from guys who can’t.

Stated like that the situation obviously makes no sense.

The only way to judge who and what women actually want is to look at who they fuck. Smart guys hit the gym, up their style, and learn game. Dumb guys bemoan their “fate.”

My last bunch of relationships ended after three to twenty-four months when the woman wanted a timeline for cohabitation or eventually marriage, and I refused. Very few women will be long-term fuck buddies or even girlfriends without a timeline for cohabitation. That can yield a Groundhog-day quality to relationships, but in my experience that is much better than the situation I found myself in when I lived with the woman who is now my ex and the mother of two kids. While I didn’t marry her (a smart move) I did make a lot of other errors that are obvious in retrospect.

In the article, the author doesn’t even attempt to ask himself what legal structures might make men wary of marriage:

This ratio, he says, keeps ultimate relationship power in the hands of men. “To plenty of women, it appears that men have a fear of commitment. But men, on average, are not afraid of commitment,” Regnerus writes.

“The story is that men are in the driver’s seat in the marriage market and are optimally positioned to navigate it in a way that privileges their (sexual) interests and preferences. It need not even be conscious behavior on their part.”

Or maybe men have learned from their fathers and uncles and friends that any time a woman wants to, she can divorce him and take half his assets. If they have kids she can use the violence of the state to compel him to disgorge money to her for 18 – 24 years. So why would any man sign up for that shit? Answer: he won’t.