Delicious Tacos talks to Personality Girl and Default Friend about getting laid and other things

Personality Girl and Default Friend have a hilarious podcast with Delicious Tacos, a podcast covering many topics, including how women don’t (maybe can’t) understand what life and horniness as a man is like, alcoholism, writing, groupies, face, sociopathy, work, and Houellbecq (the key philosopher of the last 50 years, no one else who hasn’t done pr0n counts). My replies are disjoint and won’t make sense without listening to the podcast.

Hot, emotionally mature girls aren’t on the market much and aren’t drunk or snorting coke. Guys with alcohol or substance abuse problems are attracting girls who will accept those, and it’s dangerous to draw conclusions from that biased sample… I try not to generalize too much about women based on the women I’ve been with in the last ten years, because most of them are at the very least curious about or accepting of non-monogamy, while women who want a conventional family and children aren’t going to put up with that shit. Delicious Tacos lives in L.A. (all the normal girls stay out of California). The conversation is a very big city conversation, cause normal girls who want a husband and family live in the midwest, or Texas, or Florida, or any place that it’s possible to live a middle-class existence and have a family… they’re not in the big famous cities. That’s where the sluts are, and the people who can’t afford to have kids, so they might as well do all sorts of weird sex things. I’m one of them, I’m talking about my own here, but I’ve also spent lots of time in smaller cities where women in their 20s walk around with their children in strollers and their husbands next to them. Most of them are 10 – 40 lbs overweight, which is gross, but that’s where they are.

Despite all that I have a piece coming up in the next month or two about how I was dumb to not have figured out mdma earlier in my life, cause, used judiciously, that’s where many of the easy lays are. Lots of hot chicks lack personality, or drive, or the ability to admit the sex they want and get it, and need some external aid to get there. Trying to talk to a lot of hot girls age 18 – 24 isn’t easy, cause their knowledge base consists of inane gossip and an interest in drinking and drugs. That’s it. It’s hard to build commonality from that. Solution? A lot of conversation that uses The Game + insinuations of drinking/drugs now, or in times to come. I should’ve learned this earlier… in many ways I’m a slow learner.

Very true: pussy begets more pussy. Absolutely. Sex clubs are apotheosis of this. DT gets this. He says something like, the difference between 0 pussy and 1 pussy is a million times greater than 1 and 2, and pretty much everything in game is about moving from 0 to 1. Red Quest might be less interesting cause it’s mostly about moving from 2 to a million, via sex clubs + non-monogamy.

Agree that guys who get a lot fuck a lot of chicks, almost all of varying quality levels.

Delicious Tacos should get a counseling degree and do counseling for men. He’d be great at it, and he’d get out of the corporate grind office job, become more of a prophet than he already is. I’d refer guys to him. “You want to get laid, get your life in order? Talk to this guy, Delicious Tacos.” Would he be popular, though? Most therapists seem to need to take 20 sessions to get to the obvious, because they have to wait for the person they’re talking to to get to the idea on their own… I think Delicious Tacos would be like, “Your family’s fucked up, go learn the deadlift, and get in touch with your feelings that way.” If more guys mastered the deadlift and pullup we’d have less need for therapy.

His voice is peculiarly similar to mine, as are many of his life experiences, although I’ve never had alcohol or substance abuse problems… although I have been accused of being a sex addict (DT discusses “sex addicts” on the podcast). I don’t think I am, though, because I usually have some standards, and after I get my fill I go read a book or whatever.

He says that he used to get groupies when he showed his face… but then he sadly got doxxed… I’ve speculated to other guys that, to build a bigger following it’s necessary to show some proof-of-lay and become a public figure. Krauer and Tom Torero did that. Andy from Kill Your Inner Loser has done the same. I don’t think I care enough to want to take red quest to the next level that way, but it’s useful to hear ideas echoed. Like Balaji says, “we’re going to need to build a pseudonymous economy, where over the medium to long term, you separate out your real name, your earning name, and your speaking name. And in fact, you have multiple earning names and multiple speaking games, just like you have multiple usernames at different sites.” Balaji goes on,

Let’s say, for example, you have a large Twitter following, and you boot up a new pseudonym, that pseudonym starts with nothing. And so it takes you time to boot up a new following, that’s a whole effort, that deters a lot of people from doing it, they’re starting all the way from scratch. And I thought about this problem, because the thing is that with cryptocurrency, we’ve actually solved this where you can set up a username and another username and you can use ZCash to transfer money from one name to another pseudonymously.

So money can be transferred, reputation though didn’t seem to be, until I realized that actually you might not be able to do it for followers, which are non fungible, that to say, one person is not, like, the same as the other, but you could do it on a site like Reddit, where you had Karma that was accumulated. And so someone who had 10,000 Karma under one pseudonym just like you use ZCash to transfer digital currency, ZCash was basically like the truly anonymous version of Bitcoin, the truly private version of Bitcoin. Just like you use ZCash to transfer cash from one name to another, you could use ZKarma to transfer Karma from one username to another and thereby a reboot under a new username.

Seriously, that Balaji podcast is some of the best and most mind-blowing stuff I’ve listened to, so go listen to it after you’re done with the Delicious Tacos interview… if you have a choice between long-form Balaji and long-form Red Quest, Balaji is the right way to go, on all topics apart from getting laid. Some people are badass enough to go by one name, sorry to the rest of the Balajis of the world.

Delicious Tacos also mentions that online dating stopped working effectively around 2015, which I’ve speculated about too, “I’ve had some success with regular online dating many years ago, and no success from regular online dating recently, and by recently I mean in the last six or so years. Sometime around 2015 I had enough things going on in real life that I had by then mostly quit.” Search red quest for “2015” or “2014” and you’ll see other examples.

His story sounds like Tucker Max’s (remember him…?), lots of debauchery, followed by some “what am I doing with my life?” desire to start a family.

Delicious Tacos hates his working an office job for money. What’s missing from the podcast, maybe his life? Craftsmanship. Of a physical sort. It’s a topic in Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance but more than that it goes back to Plato, one of history’s first big cucks. Craftsmanship can be done in spare time, and it can turn into full-time work. It doesn’t need to be furniture making or whatever. It can be making amateur internet porn. Seriously, some of the top verified amateurs or onlyfans ppl are craftsmen, forever trying to better their last creation. Lack a sense of craftsmanship and life will seem more meaningless than it would with craftsmanship. These people should learn woodworking or whatever. Bookbinding.

The top programmers and engineers are craftsmen, the money follows the craft. Unfortunately, the pussy doesn’t follow the money in their case, unless it’s paid for.

Although many people complain about work, very few live like Mr. Money Mustache and radically decrease their spending. Decrease spending far enough and the need to work goes way down as well. This works best outside of expensive Los Angeles. The problem is often not work, it is spending. DT doesn’t appear to have learned bike repair and physical dwelling repair, as Mr. Money Mustache has… if you hate work, there are ways to structure your life to minimize it. But it seems possible to minimize spending or maximize sex, but it’s difficult to do both at once, or at least I don’t think I know anyone who is really doing it. How big is DT’s circle of control?

Contributing to a larger community, like xbtusd says. W/o community, alienation, etc., and you can only having f**king be your main source of meaning for so many yrs. If you try to spend your whole life chasing pussy, instead of doing some family as well, you’ll likely end up some combination of miserable and, worse, pathetic (“likely”… if you’re the exception, fantastic, you’re the exception). How long it takes will vary by guy… some guys can be players successfully into their 40s or even 50s… despite saying that, if the reader really doesn’t want to have kids, don’t, there are sadly too many kids resented by their parents for merely existing. Someone who doesn’t affirmatively not want them should give it a shot.

How many marry out of tiredness or desperation?

I know a couple people who moved from alcoholism/substance abuse to becoming workout freaks, so maybe there’s something to the idea of the addictive or extreme personality. Or maybe it’s random variations and salience bias.

A make a meta comment, this post is almost like the old days of blogging… Default Friend and Delicious Tacos have websites separate from the major “social” media platforms (only Personality Girl is slacking in this regard, cause she does Twitter not blog). I’m replying on a site that’s also separate from the major data hoarders. There should be more independence and less Facebook leviathan. We can do better. Get off the big sites, be informationally independent, that’s what Balaji thinks crypto can help us do, we can do it ourselves in the ways we can right now.

Link again to the DT, Personality Girl, Default Friend pod ep. I read DT’s book THE PUSSY, it’s a fine book but one I think I read when I’d become too old and too earnest to love it. Earnestness is in today, existential irony is out. Onlyfans is the expression of earnestness in the smut market, fake San Fernando Valley surgically altered bimbos are the expression of existential irony.

Chicks want you to make the first move, so do it

The Graphic Designer Who Hates Making the First Move is a universal story of a woman who can’t or won’t make the first move: she finds a guy she likes, “I think he’s cute and wish he’d just make the move and ask me out. I don’t get it.” Why doesn’t she make the first move? She doesn’t say. About another guy, she says, “I could ask him out myself, but I really want someone to take the lead and I want to be pursued.” Despite what you’ve heard from feminist teachers in schools, despite the bullshit you may have imbibed from the media, women are passive and won’t make the first move. As a man, it’s your job to make it, and it will almost certainly remain your job as long as men and women exist. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap, so, if you’re a man reading this, you’re going to need to be the actor, not the acted upon.

Sure, you may have heard women say “Ew, I can’t believe that guy hit on me.” Guess what? She’s making a female social power play, by saying that she’s so desirable and popular that she routinely rejects guys. That’s her game when she says something like that. Or, she considered the guy to be below her level (this always happens). The other day, I was walking along a strip of bars near me, and there was this woman, cute, wearing an outfit that was like 55% business / 45% T&A, skirt that was almost too short, tits almost hanging out too much, and I opened her with, I don’t know, something about business, something about the time of day, and she said something like, “Ew, no.” Or maybe just “No,” I don’t remember exactly, but it was an uncommonly cold rejection, particularly for a woman dolled up like she was.

And it doesn’t matter, the rejection, I mean. Continue reading “Chicks want you to make the first move, so do it”

Breaking it off with the secret affair girl

Broke it off with the girl from Women having affairs never make you use a condom, after seeing her, I don’t know, five or six times… it was very nice, and yet after each time I found myself thinking the kind of things I’ve talked about on here before, like, “You can only have one or two main priorities in your life, and a couple secondary priorities, and after that you’re out of time and energy.” A lot of people fail to have a single main priority, besides something like video games or stuffing their face with sugar, and it shows. My main priority right now should not be chasing random skirt, as doing so is not consistent with my overall life goals. Problem being, when I think I can get a cute girl to pliantly spread her legs, my hindbrain says, “SCORE” and my forebrain is missing in action. When the girl and her perky tits and flat stomach are somewhere else, the forebrain can better assert control and whisper, “WTF are you doing with your life?”, and I have to admit the forebrain has control.

We met in a neutral venue, as usual, f**ked very thoroughly, also as usual, and after that we got underwear back on and I broached the topic. I don’t remember exactly what I said but it was something like, “I like you a lot, and what we’re doing a lot, but I’m not sure we should keep doing what we’re doing.” She seemed a bit surprised, but not surprised at the same time, sort of like a pandemic is a surprise we’ve been expecting for decades, or like we’re going to be “surprised” when China invades Taiwan and we’ve spent the last five years with our heads in our asses, or like having a baby is both extremely normal and simultaneously shocking. She probed a bit about why and I was actually pretty straightforward with her, my theory being that these kinds of things rarely remain secret. It’s too easy to make a mistake, and right now I need to be focused on other matters. I didn’t specify what those other matters were. I did emphasize that I like her a lot and that this isn’t about her. I’m not sure she believed it, she seemed like she wanted to cry at one point, but the “breaking it off” conversation wasn’t long. If this were a few years from now, and I’d achieved some other things, I’d keep going. But it’s not, and I’ve not, so here we are.

She turned out to be a lot like Peaches. Similar temperament and employment situation. Hot girl who doesn’t behave like a hot girl, or seem to really get/understand that she’s a hot girl. Not really sure why she’s married (I’m not sure why she’s married, that is… maybe she knows?). She’s both very driven in some ways and drifting in some other ways. You know the people who are furiously pursuing a goal without asking themselves if the goal is worth achieving, or what happens the day after the goal? A bit like that. A girl who is very IQ smart but is kinda missing the point at the same time. Needs a lot of reassurance. Seems a bit impressed that I’m not too impressed with what she’s doing, although I think it’s a bit cool at the same time. I think she needs more sex than she’s getting at home, and while I didn’t say that to her in those exact words, I did tell her that she’s a girl who needs to be f**ked a lot… and let a lot of the rest do the implying for me.

Despite having spent not a huge amount of time with her, but some time with her… I feel like I don’t know her. Know her, know her. She’s almost always a bit reserved. She needs/likes pretty heavy BDSM. Having the actual talk with her, the clean break, seems better and truer than letter her drift away. I think a lot of women today are justifiably annoyed with the number of grown males who still exhibit a lot of “boy psychology” instead of “man psychology” (a point made in KING WARRIOR MAGICIAN LOVER: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine)… “man psychology” often means politely but firmly telling her when it’s over, so she can have psychological rest. It might hurt a bit more in the moment, but it hurts much less in the long term. Yes yes I know chicks usually ghost, but chicks do a lot of bad behavior that it’s not good to emulate. A lot of guys are so stuck at the early levels of the game that they never get to the “How to break it off?” moment. Look for guys who talk about letting girls go, if they’re discussing that they’ve often gotten to more advanced levels.

I’d be surprised, though, if this chick doesn’t propose consensual non-monogamy to her husband. Maybe she’s already been dropping hints towards that. I’ve told her things like, “You got married too young” “you need to experience life,” other slut bromides designed to convey to her that what she’s doing is normal and fun. It’s part of my effort to give her permission… you’d be surprised at what chicks will do with male permission + encouragement. Chicks are generally poor at leadership and usually need a guy to support and encourage them. I don’t know why her and her husband married so early. Well I think I know why her husband married her early, she’s hot, she’s unusual in a way compatible with his bad social skills… and he probably didn’t think, at the time, he could do any better. Still not sure he can… tough to say, until you’re on the market. Markets are where statements are proven or falsified. If they’d had kids already, them being together would make sense. I suspect she’s fundamentally a weak person, psychologically or personality-wise, because there are some things about her job and life goals that are not well supported by her husband. I’m being vague here but the specifics are too revealing. There’s gotta be something to him I’m missing, or she’s going to be one of those chicks who, after her divorce, can’t quite remember why she married in the first place. I wouldn’t be shocked if she ends up a spinster, but I think she’ll pull out of the dive and have a family at some point. If she does divorce, I’d not be surprised if she goes on a slut rampage for a bit.

In the last year I’ve been pretty monogamous, having only slept with, I dunno, four chicks, or five, something like that, not many at all, most of them recurring revenue, and most of them well spaced out from each other (COVID risk… but I’ve been vaccinated… I bet STIs are going to skyrocket this summer, as people start f**king again). I also want to say… I made some substantial changes in the last year, and they’ve been good… even with them, I’ve probably talked to 100, maybe 150, chicks, to find this one who was in the right place, right time for the potential lays (of which there have been very few). Most of them were very brief and in social circumstances, often a bunch in one day, just a “hi, how are you, what’s your name,” that sort of thing… very low-level pings. I’ve done a bit of large-group social hosting, in part cause it’s fun but also to try and keep some backup chicks in my orbit. I retweeted a Rob K. Henderson tweet, “Not only do people in committed relationships have backup mates; even people who seem quite happy with their relationships actively cultivate them…people without backup mates were twice as likely to get depressed compared to those with a solid backup.” This is what almost all successful players I’ve known in real life (not on the Internet) have done… whenever they’re in a relationship, sometimes a “relationship,” they’re also cultivating a backup roster with postions #2 – #10. Ten is a little extreme, you get the idea.

Often, they have something regular going on… it can be almost anything… a Friday night happy hour, a group hike, a dinner, a whatever, so that when they meet a new chick, it’s easy to say, “Some friends and I are doing a thing, you should come.” Way back in the mists of the time, when Mystery was doing his LA thing, he got hold of the “seven-hour rule,” that it takes the average chick about seven hours of exposure to a guy to be ready to f**k him. It can be shorter than that, obviously, but it can also be longer, for some chicks… 4 – 10 hours is a good round number. Having a guy invite a chick into his loose social orbit will often let her spend those hours around him… so that when his primary chick departs, she’s there ready to be f**ked. This is how many office affairs, teacher-student affairs, etc., start. The girl spends enough time around the guys to be comfortable enough with him to want to f**k him. She knows he’s probably not a murderer, etc., because she works with him, she’s been taught by him, whatever.

I’m not saying that’s the only way to do it, and I’m not denigrating daygame… it has its place… but there are different ways to do it, and it seems like a lot of guys writing online lack basic social skills. That basic notion is behind “parties.” Daygame and other elements of social life work together, too. I prefer real one on one dates… but sometimes you’re with a woman, and you want to have a few more on deck, and other methods come to the foreground. I don’t like getting caught in the open field without any cover around me. That’s happened to me before… not often, though. Any guy in a relationship should be able to think, “What will I do if she walks out tomorrow?” and have a good game plan ready to go. Guys who think, “She is my entire world” “I’d fall apart without her” “happy wife, happy life…” I feel bad for them. What your sports coaches told you is true, proper preparation leads to victory.

A man who won’t prepare is preparing to fail.

This is a pic Unsplash showed me when I searched for “affair”

No one “empowered” talks about “empowerment:” see the lie

“Empowering” and “empowerment are hugely overused words, and the people using them are neither. The people talking about “empowerment” are trying to escape from some aspect of themselves they don’t like, or something they’ve done that doesn’t fit their present narrative. “Empowered” people aren’t talking about empowerment, they’re busy doing things in the real world. Things that are really empowering include learning rare/unusual skills, building a real business that adds value to the world, having peak experiences, deepening real relationships, and probably a few other activities that don’t come immediately to mind. Also, the most “empowered” people I know never talk about empowerment or say they’re “empowered,” so talking about “empowerment” is a sign of weakness/neediness/something undesirable. I searched for the word “empowerment” on red quest and found it in a single post, used skeptically, despite the fact that red quest is in some sense about “empowering” guys to lead the lives they want. If you do the things advocated, and develop the skills described, you’ll be “empowered,” and if/when you are, you own’t need to talk about it. “Empowering” is used once in this blog, but in a quote.

Continue reading “No one “empowered” talks about “empowerment:” see the lie”

My perspective on investing and financial security is super vanilla

A reader asks my thoughts on financial matters,

Hi RQ. With the GME short squeeze/bubble (whichever term you prefer) making headlines, it made me curious what your perspective is on investing and financial security. Obviously one of the best ways to improve your finances is to not get married, something you have espoused all the time, but I would love to read a whole post about the subject.

Don’t have a unique view or expertise here… a lot of finance advice is pretty wasteful because there are only really two or three ways to really achieve financial freedom:

  1. Spend less.
  2. Earn more.
  3. Invest in assets that earn more than inflation.

That’s it. Numbers 1 and 2 are both hard (if they were easy, we wouldn’t have a $10 billion finance industry trying to sell us on ways to do them).

Re: #1, I rely on Mr Money Mustache for ideas, so start there… he has a nice philosophy too, where he says, “What are you really on this planet to do?” Money is usually a way to achieve other goals, e.g. make friends, create things, etc. The advertising industry is there to convince you the way to have a better human existence is to buy shit (hint: it’s not).

Re: #2, that’s good as well, and you should develop valuable skills, but many high performers spend whatever they make, cause the hedonic treadmill is real, and it’s also not easy to make a lot of money, in most cases (if it were, more guys would do it). A lot of guys who focus on making a lot of money forget why they want to (to live a better life). I’ve not maximized earnings in my life, and have spent more of it than I should have living on the edge, partially due to some choices that, from a finance perspective, haven’t always been the best. Okay and worth it, but I’ve taken a lot of risks with sex.

Re: #3, see John Bogle’s books on index funds. See A Random Walk Down Wall Street, and other finance classics that extol index funds. Efficient markets hypothesis is mostly correct and most people don’t beat the market, sorry. The math behind lower fees and dollar cost averaging is sound, unless you are RenTech or someone like that (extremely rare).
Continue reading “My perspective on investing and financial security is super vanilla”

Where do your ideas come from? Doing things, going places

A guy emails to ask, how do I write so much? Where do I get ideas? Three tiers, in descending order of importance…

* Experiences. What have I done, how did I do it, what did I learn from it. These can be negative ones, too… how did I fail, why did I fail, what did I learn from it. The best, most intersting guys are reporters. They go out, see/do things, report back on what they find. Scientists do the same, in a way… they try something, see if it works, if it works, great, if it doesn’t, why not? What can we learn about the natural world from the thing working, or not working?

Experiences generate stories, and many guys have trouble on dates or with general socializing because they don’t do much: they watch TV, play video games, scroll social media.  When someone asks, “What have you been up to?” the honest answer is “nothing much.” A better answer is “climbing a mountain” “experimenting with MDMA” “learning how to grow herb using LED lights, come over for dinner some time” “went to a concert with this chick.” A lot of guys struggle with talking to chicks because the guy has nothing interesting to say, because he doesn’t do much, or he hasn’t learn to say it in an interesting way.

* Conversations. Post enough about experiences and you might catch the attention of other interesting people. A chunk of the sex club book came from Nash questions or observations. He wanted to know about jealousy, so a comment turned into a post. XBTUSD has written a group of posts, after he left some intersting comments, and I encouraged him to start a blog of his own… instead he wrote a group of posts about his experiences. He’s asked some questions or made some observations that led me to posts. If you’re having conversations in direct messages, emails, or chat apps, keep an ear open for ideas. Breeze has also precipitated some ideas, especially around drug use (not a specialty of mine but having experimented I understand better why normal guys who get laid partake).  Continue reading “Where do your ideas come from? Doing things, going places”

XBTUSD’s take on “the talk” a woman gives when she wants to advance the relationship

XBTUSD is back: his last post describes his first sex party, and he’s written three other posts too.

Almost every male and female in a modern dating context is doing some form of a dance: women want an escalator relationship towards marriage, and men want to avoid committing for a long as possible. Men enjoy the pre-label part of the relationship and women get value and security out of the label. Breeze’s post and Nash/RQ’s comments brought up some interesting points about this age-old topic: should a guy get out in front of things and confront the inevitable and have the talk, or should you avoid the talk and build tension, as Nash suggests? I strongly side with RQ and Lucas Bly, but Nash’s comments added another distinction. I’ve heard many in TRP communities argue that those who have the talk aren’t skilled, can’t hold tension, and are essentially pussies for giving in to what the woman wants and losing the frame. But Nash’s comment that he offers up, “I am your lover” made me realize we all might actually be agreeing here.

There’s value in building and holding tension, but only if it is inevitably released. Good standup is setup, punchline, build tension, release tension, and good seduction should have a similar cadence. Those who say you can avoid “the talk” altogether come off as those that haven’t spent much time around women and are LARPing. The talk is inevitable, so how can we approach it from a Red Pill frame. We have to lead. Create the frame, and let her step into it.

TRQ has a great post on the book Warrior King Magician Lover. Continue reading “XBTUSD’s take on “the talk” a woman gives when she wants to advance the relationship”

How much texting should you do to get the girl? Less than you think

On Red Pill a guy has a post, “Being good at texting won’t get you laid” (the argument is what you’d expect from the title), and the comments have posts from younger guys saying things like,

Gen z girls operate with texting and establishing some kind of banter ESPECIALLY if you havent fucked her yet.

You will defo have to establish some rapport if shes 18-24ish. These girls were born and raised with social media.

Good luck cold approaching them and instantly scheduling a date over text.

Text skills are needed. Not saying be a dancing clown at all but guys here act like its illegal to build a little rapport behind the phone

Or…

I don’t know how old you are guys but I’m 19 years old, generation Z 50% or more of our communication is with text especially girls. You can’t just do what the red pill says and “text for logistics” and succeed most gen Z girls will flake on you if you do that even if you’re good looking because they have so many options you have to build comfort through text.

Having fucked a fair number of gen Z girls (one sample story, and Ms. Slav is Gen Z, and there are some others I haven’t written about…), I don’t think this is particularly true, “most gen Z girls will flake on you if you do that,” because Gen Z girls are still girls… they like fun, interesting, and exciting guys… just like all girls, everywhere, for all time.

If you are the guy doing things and going places, you’re inviting her along for the ride. If she misses the ride, she knows you’re going to be meeting and talking to other girls (and fucking them).

Do things. The time spent “building comfort over text” is better spent doing things, meeting girls, and talking to girls.

The whole frame of “you have to build a lot of comfort over text” is wrong. Continue reading “How much texting should you do to get the girl? Less than you think”

XBTUSD on his non-monogamy experiences

Reader and regular commenter XBTUSD sent this essay on his experiences with non-monogamy and related topics.

I’ve been exploring the non-monogamous world for around seven years and have had a myriad of experiences pretty different than TRQ’s, and I hope sharing them might be valuable to his audience: I really respect the community he’s built [editor’s note: community of lunatics?], his writing style, and the quality of the discussions in the comments section. Maybe my experiences can serve as a useful counterpoint to TRQ’s and we can compare and contrast.

I first heard about ethical non-monogamy (ENM) at work, teaching a room full of people when my high school girlfriend called me (she had become a close friend after we stopped dating) to tell me about the threesome she’d with her new boyfriend. I was in my late 20s, had never had a threesome or even come close, and was thrilled to hear that this type of thing was happening for real. She’d recently moved out to SF and had gotten immersed in the ENM/psychedelic/tech scene out there, and her and the BF were exploring ENM. She’d always been one of the most sexually open women I’ve met—in high school, we used to go to concerts and have competitions to see who could make out with the most people—so none of this shocked me. The part of the story that did surprise me was that for the month following the threesome, they’d been having the best sex of their lives. This was a huge shift for me in terms of what I saw as possible.

Continue reading “XBTUSD on his non-monogamy experiences”

Non-monogamy and polyamory’s dark sides

Bo Winegard tweets,

Educated elites who believe that polyamory can be practiced and enjoyed by most of the population remind me of the math professor who believes differential equations are within the grasp of anyone who makes a serious attempt at learning.

There exists compelling research that normative monogamy is beneficial and leads to myriad positive social externalities.

Polyamory is fine as a niche relationship modality, practiced mostly among the extremely WEIRD [Western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic].

He’s right, particularly regarding people who want real families (a topic we’ll come back to in a moment). Despite what you’ve read here, I buy this Bo Winegard argument… we’re also not willing as a society to have an honest conversation about what’s happening below the IQ median. The people driving the conversation at the top really don’t have any idea what’s happening down there, and choose deliberately not to. They don’t really understand what it’s like to not have the cognitive capacity to get top-end jobs or have the conversations non-monogamous people need if their relationships are going to survive.

Nash follows up with…

“Burning Man style: POLYAMORY is more standard than monogamy. Men get the variety they want. They think sharing their women and it’s a ‘form of love evolution’ (they are no longer jealous), but what is happening is it pretty much destroys most of those relationships.”

“In ‘Burning Man’ it’s fine to take off your clothes and dance around really sexually. If you were at your grandma’s house having dinner (or around children), and you did that, would it ‘open everyone’s heart?’ Or would it create a fiasco? It would create a fiasco.”

Those are from David Deida talks. Deida’s more right than wrong, right now… poly/open is a fiasco in all instances except, basically, as casual sex, which is how I do them. Some light swinging can work too, especially in very long term relationships (that get stale and need some more heat). A very small number of people can really do them as described. Mostly, “poly” and “open” are about rationalizing casual sex (which is how I use it… because it’s a form of normalizing and institutionalizing casual sex for me, I don’t get caught up on the terminology). In that post from two years ago, Nash said, “for me the ‘poly’ community is a fucking mess. I live in CA and I am surrounded by these folks… and it’s an ugly shitshow. I watch guys ‘try’ this all the time, and they are a fucking sad bunch, mostly.” “Mostly” he’s right. The guys doing this at the higher end are also focused on one guy and two women, and they often don’t highly advertise what they’re doing. Most top guys don’t want to advertise what they’re doing. A lot of chicks also don’t want to come out as sharing a guy with another chick. Continue reading “Non-monogamy and polyamory’s dark sides”