How many marry out of tiredness or desperation?

I wonder how many guys (and girls) get in relationships or marriages not because they really truly want to, but because their dating markets are thin and the courtship process is onerous and annoying.

There’s no way to answer this question, but I bet the number of people who are in relationships because they really truly want to be is smaller than the number of people who are in relationships because they feel they can’t do better, or are tired of flakey chicks, etc. I believe that, subconsciously, I responded well to non-monogamy for a bunch of reasons… one being that it can effectively deal with the large number of flakey chicks out there. One reliable girl is better than 10 flakey ones and if a flakey one shows up on a date with the reliable girl, it’s a win-win.

Get outside of the big cities and you’ll see the dating market get really thin really fast. In that environment, pairing up makes sense, because the good ones won’t be on the market forever. It’s more attractive to be an eternal bachelor in the thicker, dense cities, because there is always new tail around the corner.

Women can think the same thing but the biological clock is working against them to a much greater degree past age 30. So many women in their 30s in the big cities are trending towards spinsterhood because they misuse their valuable assets.

Very few people do things for entirely “rational” reasons (I used to think I knew what “rational” means in general, now I don’t really), and understanding our own internal drives is very difficult.

Game, intelligence, IQ, image match

The players writing about the game almost always have above-average intelligence, and it shows in their writing. This makes sense because you can’t be a total dummy and develop high-level game skills. It’s too complex to learn the skills, integrate the skills, practice the skills, and so on, for real dummbies to do this. You have to do plan and execute ideas. Some of the things you do may not bear fruit for many months or years. Diet and exercise discipline is hard. You must learn from harsh rejections and cruel women. If you are too stupid to get feedback from women, incorporate the feedback, make changes, and try again, you will fail.

We know quite a bit about food and nutrition but it takes time and energy to learn these things, which many people never do. I myself have spent thousands of dollars over the years on coaches, trainers, and physical therapy (to repair damage). These things are impractical for the ignorant or just stupid. Someone bedazzled by images and unable to learn from reading is probably not going to execute the game effectively. Someone who likes playing video games to the detriment of the rest of his life, same problem.

Don’t want to toot my own horn too much, but I have heard guys who get into this say there are fewer idiots than they expected. To be sure “smart” isn’t everything and smart-enough people can have motivated reasoning problems. Krauser, to use one sample, suffers from a lot of motivated reasoning and racism but his overall IQ can’t be so low. The racism and foolishly anti-immigrant sentiment is linked to his motivated reasoning; he often denies historical and scientific fact that conflicts with his racist, in-group views. Yet his overall IQ is evident from his writing.

Going back to the image match thing, some girls will not sleep with guys below some minimum IQ (or will do so very rarely and in exceptional circumstances, like sports heroes or very hot guys). I’ve had success with smart girls who won’t f**k stupid guys but who are pretty. They have a small market because plenty of smart guys smarten themselves out of style, social skills, and game. Think about many engineers and programmers on the autism spectrum. So I can end up pressing a lot of those girls’s buttons very quickly. Some pretty but smart girls have found me almost a relief, and they are not super common themselves but I have found myself in a lot of situations where they congregate. Dumb girls will often f**k smart guys who are also fun and flirty, so smart guys with game and go down in IQ and still touch on the smarter girls.

It can go the other way, too… for long term relationships… after you have f**ked a girl a couple hundred times, maybe a thousand times… her physical beauty is just not going to be as important as it was the first time you saw her, the first time you got her nude, etc. It won’t be unimportant but it won’t matter as much. Her capacity to say surprising things, learn new things, etc…. that can continue for her entire lifespan. Smarter girls will also understand the importance of fitness and nutrition, and they will have the ability to understand that eating the ice cream today has important consequences tomorrow. The smartest people don’t just take in, judge, and evaluation new information… they use that information effectively to make changes. Longer-term relationships work better with girls who are effective than girls who are ineffective.

Our society does a poor job teaching guys what chicks want… so guys who want to really know, have to learn for ourselves, and from other guys. This is hard for guys who are blinded by advertising, video games, etc., or guys who are just dumb.

Loneliness and long term versus libido

It seems like there’s some trade-off between loneliness and libido, in a way that I didn’t feel when I was younger. For quite a few years I wanted to f**k as many hot chicks as possible, as often as I could, and when I did that, it was good. Body, soul, and psyche in perfect alignment. I still want to do that, but there is an undercurrent of loneliness and melancholy to random hookups, even with really hot chicks (some of me going on about the subject, here, here, probably some other spots too). That means I should seek something longer term, right?

Then… there is the libido thing… when I see or worse interact with a hot chick, I still want to f**k her. There are some ways to try and minimize the distinction between them… but I don’t think they’re going away, as a trade off.

I don’t have the typical 2,000 words of elaboration on the theme… it’s just a feeling that I’ve had for a while. Life is about contending with problems, not about ease. When I think about the long term, I want companionship. When I think about the next hour, I want a hot wet naked chick writhing underneath me. I think about some of the gorgeous and wonderful women I had writhing underneath me five or seven years ago, and I can barely remember some of them, in some cases. Their effect on the current life is almost zero.

What do I mean by “levels” of game/seduction discussion?

Guys have been asking what I mean when I talk about the “level” a given piece of advice operates at. There are at least two ladders of levels, maybe more. There’s the discussion/pattern ladder, and the game level.

There are GAME levels, and we’ll talk about them first… the first bunch of levels are where the man does almost all of the work, typically. Not always, but usually. Almost always if the woman is attractive. Initially, the man takes the brunt of the rejection. Sex is a fulcrum point. After it, more of the power and rejection ability shifts to the man. Men want to know, “Why won’t she put out? When will she put out?” Women want to know, “Why won’t he commit? Why doesn’t he call me after sex? Why doesn’t he acknowledge my love?” The seduction discussion among men is almost always about getting to sex and its immediate aftermath. The seduction discussion among women is almost always about getting a man who is high status and attractive to commit to a woman. Conversations about getting to sex seem weird a woman, because sex isn’t hard for her to get at all. Conversations about getting a high-status man to commit seem a little weird to many men, who haven’t been that high-status man and have spent most of their lives struggling with women.

Women are not stupid (a common refrain around here), and they know that they can have sex pretty quickly and easily if they want it. Many guys, however, don’t understand women and don’t understand that the female discussion is almost always past the “good sex” stage. There are articles about how to bait men into making the first move, especially guys who are +2 in SMV, but the bulk of the discussion happens at the later levels… “Mismatched sexual market value (SMV): Diagnosis and cures” has greater detail. So much advice, from and to both men and women, is garbage because it doesn’t talk about SMV level. Are you accurately assessing your own SMV? The SMV of the person you’re interested in? What that disparity or lack of disparity implies? So much of the discussion doesn’t address raising SMV, which is one big advantage of the red pill discussion, which begins with lifting, fashion, and diet. It’s about raising SMV.

Too much leadup. Some possible levels in the game:

  • Non-verbal indicator of interest (IOI).
  • Approach.
  • Initial rapport/seduction/whatever.
  • Exchange of numbers and contact information.
  • Date / seduction.
  • Kissing/stroking.
  • Bounceback, logistical challenges.
  • Clothes come off.
  • Sex. This is a fulcrum point, and it’s often where the female discussion starts: women want to know how, once a man has high enough status to lay them, to please the man and keep him interested and around.
  • Comfort/aftercare/bonding, especially if the woman has had deep sexual experiences and she doesn’t want to feel cheap/used/etc. Many men fail here. Once they’ve fucked they feel their “job” is done, which is a good way to needlessly hurt a woman. This is where a lot of women don’t want to go home and a lot of men want women to go home. Not universal, obviously.
  • Repeat sex/dates.
  • Where is this going?” conversation. Defining the relationship. That kind of thing. Red Pill guys often stop here, though many don’t even get here.
  • Committed relationships.
  • Cohabitation.
  • Marriage (I think this is a bad deal for men in most Western societies but it’s here for the sake of completeness).
  • Children/family/family structure.

Later on, there is group consciousness, pattern recognition, etc. There is understanding of a woman’s needs, psychologies, etc. And not all women are the same. Continue reading “What do I mean by “levels” of game/seduction discussion?”

Types of girls and dangers of most seduction techniques

Redpill and seduction communities are focused on hot young party girls. And that’s fine! Great, even. I’ve spent loads of time chasing and attempting to f**k and sometimes even f**king these girls, so I’m well familiar with them and why redpill and seduction guys give the advice they (we) do. But the girls who have either quit that phase or who have never really been in it… they are not going to accept a lot of techniques you’ll hear the most about. You need to master the game to move beyond the game, if you want to find and get them… a theme I have been blathering on about lately. Those girls might be much more interested in your underlying value and your commitment willingness, rather than your party f**k-boy manslut ways.

Today’s discussion begins from me, noticing that “women are the ultimate red pillers. Men are just noticing what’s already there,” regarding some chick’s conversation with her hypergamous friend,

Then FortWorthPlay said, “NEVER feel bad for using Dread Game..they secretly love it and it makes their panties wet.” I’m not so sure…

Depends on the girl I think…. one who is psychologically healthy and really wants a relationship/family needs very little dread, and a very light touch. She’ll reject a guy who does dread game on her.

Most basic college/party girls, yeah, sure.

‘Types’ are important here.

Types” is a Nash point… one I have adopted… I have been “a certain type of player” and also Nash has written about “types” on this blog, “First off, you’re doing something SMART here by starting with some TYPES. It is a simple fact that we are not all the same, and by defining some types… we can introduce some tools and immediately know that they are not for everyone, but that doesn’t make them invalid. With that said… for me the ‘poly’ community is a fucking mess.”

Types. Environments. I have been most consumed by chasing hot chicks in the city. Big-city girls, and particularly young ones, are also more likely to be hunting fun sexual experiences from the ever-discussed “alpha males.” I have spent some time in smaller cities for work and they have a less feral sex culture. Women and men marry earlier. Children are more common. Divorce may be more common as wel but that is a separate point.

Continue reading “Types of girls and dangers of most seduction techniques”

Tough conversations. Downside of being known as a player

Tough conversations this weekend. I’m having some challenges making some of the changes I want to make, and I am suffering some right now because I have been a player for a long time and have a player reputation and a lot of player instincts. The player instincts don’t serve me well in trying to develop a longer-term relationship with a woman who has a more secure attachment style and who knows what she wants.

A word on reputation and what chicks are looking for. Players tend to filter out family-oriented chicks. TD Daygame has been talking about this on Twitter, although I don’t think he has a blog anymore, so I can’t link a canonical post on the subject. But chicks who want monogamy and families do exist…. they are the ones who are not intersted in guys who give off player vibes. Some of them are also very pretty. You can tell who they are because they usually have a small number of lifetime sex partners, usually don’t have sex immediately, and typically find guys who are attractive, have their shit together, and are career-oriented. Extremely sexually adventurous chicks make for interesting and fun stories… extremely family-oriented chicks don’t, usually. I am thinking of two chicks in particular I know who were (and are) very pretty and followed this pattern. Often they will compromise somewhat on looks and extroversion to get family-oriented and monogamous. They often find long-term guys in their 20s and often work jobs that give them access to guys with good earnings and family orientation.

Obviously there are many family-oriented, mostly monogamous chicks who will have one or two flings in their lives… if you catch them at the right time with the right game you may get with one of them. But for the most part these chicks keep their wilder impulses under control and filter guys for being better dads and providers. If a woman is looking for this she is not going to like players or guys who signal player. This is the kind of woman who, if you cold approach her, will say “no” and move on. She’s probably never been on Tinder or, if she has, she quit it in disgust. She’s not doing the things all the Red Pill guys complain about in sexually active women, but she’s also looking for a guy commensurate to her in value, so low value guys are going to be just about sexually invisible to her. I think a lot of online Red Pill guys are low value and thrashing about women because it’s almost impossible to overcome being low value, kind of like fat chicks complaining about men. For fat chicks, their number one problem in accessing higher-value men is being fat, and pretty much nothing they do without changing their diets and movement habits will improve their situation.

Reputation matters and chicks are going to judge you on, like you judge them on it (if you know them). Continue reading “Tough conversations. Downside of being known as a player”

Whoops. Last weekend. Backsliding in game.

Went to a private party two Saturday nights ago, intending to see some friends and leave. Said party was much larger than I thought it would be, with fewer people who I knew, but enough that I could do a lot of chitchat and set merges. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a woman I’ve f**ked a few times before, not recently (last time was two years ago?) and have also hung out with apart from f**king. She looks very good for her age, late 30s, with a high 7 body (must have been boy-slender while she was younger, so she has grown into her body, as some very thin chicks do) and a less-good high 5 / low 6 face. Her body looked very good in her lingerie bodysuit… we got around to talking, very close together, a lot of eye f**king, and then I asked if I could kiss her (necessary in that environment). She said yes and it progressed straightaway from there, into kissing, groping, me spanking her vigorously… despite some wrist/elbow problems, that I foolishly ignored in the moment, with her getting more and more into it, me getting more into it, moving her by her hair, having her go down on me to get me hard, then me bringing her onto a bed for a minute. It was very on, and we f**ked on the bed, then I put her on a spanking bench and really let rip.

I don’t mean to brag, but I railed this girl harder than Amtrak. I also caught that mystical moment when you’re pleasurably f**king the girl, you’re totally engaged, but you’re not moving too much towards orgasm and can control the flow. We probably f**ked hard. I believe she had one clitoral orgasm with her fingers, then, while she was on the spanking bench (not this sex bench but in the same neighborhood), and I felt off, and she then had a full-body g-spot vaginal orgasm. I think the spanking bench was key because she could relax the tension in her entire body and let her weight be distributed along her shins, knees, and torso, with just her p***y opening available at the end for me to rail. And I could hold her by the neck, hair, or hips… having her by the back of the neck seemed to do it for her, so I did that. Maybe she got a little bit of choking sensation from the weight.

I almost came from her clitoral orgasm, but I managed not to by slowing my speed and even holding still while she spasmed. Then, as her p***y began to relax again, I started going again. I asked her if it was too much and she said no, and sure enough I could not outlast her more intense orgasm. It felt like hours passed, but realistically it was probably like 10 minutes, maybe 13 – 15… 10 minutes of extreme exertion… not quite like sprinting (no one can sprint for 10 straight minutes), yet still enough to be physically exhausting. I know about the hours thing, because I have checked the tape and seen that what can feel like an hour turns out to be six minutes or something (chicks will also posit that we were at it for like an hour, but time stamps don’t lie to either of us). I have even asked chicks… “How long was that?” “30 minutes.” Then the tape shows that it was like 6 or 7 minutes… you cannot trust people on the subject of sex. Even if we don’t mean to lie, we lie.

When this chick, I will call her Skinny Minnie, and I finished we lolled together for a while, very much in our own world. Other people instinctively and intelligently let us be. It felt like we were in that post-sex bonding high state for many hours, but, again, I’m sure it was in reality far shorter than that.

I admire women in the 35 – 50 range who haven’t given up… there could be a lot more women who still have some sexual allure in that age range, but they don’t because they love sugar, simple carbs, and drinking more than they love sex, sensuality, and connection. Obviously no 40 year old woman is going to be as attractive as a hot 20 year old woman, but many of them could still have something going for them if they weren’t lazy and undisciplined. Saying this is like complaining about the weather, as I’m not going to change it, but my admiration for those who don’t let themselves morph into jabba the hut and then blame it on their kid or their job has gone up.

I theorize that Skinny Minnie and I were just familiar enough with each other to have great sex, but not so familiar as to be bored. We’d just gotten over the unfamiliar to familiar line and could thus relax into the f**king. The only regret is the condom, though it was necessary given the circumstances. The great sex may have had nothing to do with familiar/defamiliar and it might just be one of those things that happens if you go at it enough times and keep honing your skills.

For someone who probably has annoying feminist political views and who probably hates children, I like Skinny Minnie a lot. Online life is disfiguring our ability to hang out, bond with other people, and not go into paroxysms of bullshit over every relatively minor political thing that happens. I’m talking to you too, angry Red Pill guys.

On Sunday (a little less than two weeks ago now), I went to a more sedate event… and this girl was there! Unbelievable. She was also there with another couple, who we met together. We talked some, but she has had some tumultuous life events and problems that I don’t want to enumerate because they are very specific to her. I was so so hot for her at first… I have pictures that make you think she’s a high 9 and pictures that could make you think she’s a high 6. Angles and lighting, man. I was so hot for her when I first laid, and now I can barely remember why. Some chicks, when body and mind are very appealing to me, I can stay very attracted for a very long time (e.g. Short Dancer).

Strangely, I feel bad on the net about that weekend, because it moved me further away from my “long range” goals. I also ate a piece of bread and some pasta at the event on Sunday, against paleo principles… eating wrongly is interesting because a very small amount of wrong goes a very long way for me… when I have slipped in the past, I have felt substantially worse than I typically do, yet with very little slippage. I can’t fathom the typical people (fatties, mostly) who eat all this sugar and feel like shit 98% of the time. That could explain why so many people are f**king c**ts.

I wasn’t congruent between short term and long term goals. I can likely “get away” with it in some sense, but that is not a good way to think if you want to build lasting, purpose-driven relationships. Most people WILL notice incongruence over time. That is also the basis for some of my view in relationships with women, like, it is good to trust but verify… so you basically trust her, but if you have the opportunity, double check. She says she’s with her best friend Tuesday night, so next time you see the friend, “Tell me about Tuesday.” Does the best friend know what you mean right away?

She’s working late, so you bring her a snack without warning… you walk in, drop it off quickly, and leave. Is she happy to see you? What’s her body language like with her coworker? Etc. Is her behavior congruent with what she says? Contrary to what you read among angry Red Pillers, most women are pretty congruent, once they are established in a relationship. But it is also a good idea to keep the temperature of the congruence… is she suddenly developing new “guy friends?” Is her relationship first? Is what she wants and what you want the same? Does she say she wants a family but doesn’t behave that way? Does she say she wants to party but you can tell she wants a family? These are all things to think about.

Then there are other forms of incongruence. Does she try to put on a smart/intelligent face but is actually dumb? Is she actually pretty smart but trying to appear dumb? Probably no one, myself included, is 100% consistent and congruent, but it is good to keep your eye on the gauges and note when one is out of whack. Smart chicks are of course doing the same to you, and if you are not living the way you say you are, she will notice.

I don’t think very many people are totally hit blind and without warning about the various ways relationships break down… if you listen to your internal senses, without being paranoid, and run little spot checks… you can figure out what’s up. It’s true that there are a lot of social retards out there in the Internet, who can’t do this, and then bad things happen to them… but most of us need to cultivate our own instincts. If we do that, many problems can be prevented or foreseen, and prepared for. Many men today also do not fundamentally understand that no relationships is automatically permanent… she can leave at any time… once you have internalized this idea, you will structure your life accordingly.

Skinny Minnie… she doesn’t have the best face but her body is still doing well. There is another girl, I’ll call her Blondie, who I slept with for a while four or five years ago… she was curvy (in a genuine, good way) with a flat stomach… not very bright but very attractive, very sexual. So good in bed. Probably a low 8. Maybe mid 8 (then). Now… high 5? Low 6? I saw her again recently, and she is one for whom the idea of the wall was invented. Just shocking degradation, and without having had a kid, over a short period of time. Skinnie Minnie is older but has better discipline (I think) as well as a better body type for aging. Some girls also really know how to f**k and be f**ked, and Skinnie Minnie is one of them.

So that was the weekend before last. Last weekend (six days ago now), I went to a friend’s party that had some elements similar to the prior weekend… but almost no one of interest. One pretty 22-year-old freak (which I like and say in a positive way) who doesn’t shave under her arms (HUGE turnoff to me) was interested… I’ve run into her before… interest is low due to hair issue. It’s a real shame because she’s a solid high 7 if she shaves properly and normally. Watching an attractive woman sexually neuter herself is f**king painful.

Another woman was there who was I just not into… she’s like 43 or 45 or something and is in not bad shape for her age, but to me she’s just not of sexual interest. Drop five or seven years and I think she’d be in the acceptable ballpark. Another couple was asking me what I think of the woman, and I was like, “She’s just not my type.” They kept going, “Why?” I didn’t want to say, “Too old and beat up,” even though that’s the answer… they know it, and I know it, and they know I know. Everyone knows why I wasn’t interested, but in this atmosphere it’s dangerous to admit, “I want the hot chicks not the other ones.” Particularly for casual liaisons. I bet this woman was SMOKING hot when she was 22. She has nice interpersonal energy, bubbly personality, but I feel bad for her… no kids, still trying to make it happen, not getting there. Too many fatties at the party in general… almost all of them were the kind of people who make you think, “With a little bit of discipline and time in the gym you could raise your value a lot.” Something that was true of both the men and the women, by the way. Too much of a freakshow for me, overall, although two of the guys there have basically set up a club/party ecosystem. It’s not an easy way for it to happen, but I understand the appeal.

It’s always funny to feel sexual energy and interest from a chick who is not of interest. As I ratcheted my sexual energy down, she ratcheted hers up. It’s extremely rare for a genuinely attractive chick to move on me… I’m not sure it’s ever happened… sure, sometimes they might hang around in proximity, that sort of thing.

If you get an unattractive woman hitting on you, it should remind you of what women have to go through… an unattractive woman is not a sexual threat to me. A chick may get unwanted attention from a guy who is 8 inches taller than her and outweighs her by 40+ pounds (not that common anymore because of how fat the average chick is, but let’s assume this is for an attractive woman, as large chicks are their own man repellant).

This weekend I am going to lay low and focus on family things and the better relationship. I need to do that more consistently, but I am struggling more than I should between different desires. Magnum reviews the new Krauser book and it sounds like the book is covering some of the psychological territory I am in. I will write more about the book when I am done with it and will probably give my copy away.

One interesting thing is that over the course of my player journey, if I had one, I have gotten better at letting go of chicks who I am not so interested in, and letting go of chicks who are less interested in me. It has probably reduced the lay count quite a bit (fine with me), but it is a better way to live. I was more dogged at first, and there is a place for doggedness… but doggedness can degrade your psychology and make you not like chicks very much.

This has turned into a ramble, but my method for writing is to read some things or have some experiences and then reflect on them and what they mean. These are some recent experiences and some ideas on what they might mean.