Date structure and arc: how to plan and execute dates

When I’m planning and executing initial dates with a girl, I have a repeatable structure or arc that usually goes like this: date one, we meet at a bar, have a drink or two. If the girl seems particularly “on,” I might suggest drink two or three at my place. More often, I’ll suggest we go to a second bar, get a drink, make out a bit on the way there or at the bar, then suggest we go back to mine. A fair number of girls say yes. Some guys report that trying to pull on the first date increases their flake and fall-off rates greatly, but that hasn’t been my overall experience (or Red Pill Dad’s, he’s told me in private). Xbtusd says he never tries for first-date sex. My theory is that girls respect the ask, even if they say no, but that theory may be wrong. 

Towards the end of date 1, I’ll usually suggest date 2, which is dinner at my place, ideally two days later (so if date 1 is a Tuesday, date 2 would be a Thursday). If the girl’s schedule is tight, I’ll try to establish a date/time for date 2. It could be the next night, but I prefer two days later, maybe three or four if necessary. If the girl can’t make it for more than four or five days, I feel like momentum is often lost and not regained, but at times that can’t be helped. Some light texting with the girl helps retention between dates 1 and 2. For date 2, I never make something new and always make something easy for me, usually vegetarian, because a fair number of girls are vegetarian. Salmon is a good choice too: something light and easy. Red Pill Dad has a great risotto recipe in the linked field report. Risotto is a smart, solid choice because it gives the girl something to do to contribute, so you’re not merely serving her, but stirring rice is also brain-dead easy, so the girl (probably) can’t fuck it up. I’ve tended to prefer a meal that I can prep in advance and put together in maybe 10 or 15 minutes. Girls are impressed by anyone who can cook, because most people are so dysfunctional that they flush massive amounts of cash down the toilet eating in restaurants and eating takeaway every year. You should be able to cook, because if you can’t you’ll get fat in addition to wasting that money on takeaway. RPD’s risotto gambit is a clear improvement on what I’ve generally made. 

For date 2, she’s already at my place, so we make out some while dinner is being made, drink wine, etc. We can “watch a movie” after, or transition into sex. If she says no, that’s okay. 

For date 3 I’ll typically do another bar meet, and maybe a walk after the bar, then try for my place for sex. If for some reason that hasn’t happened yet, I might do date 4 as dinner at my place again… I don’t rigorously follow the three date (fake) “rule”, but if I don’t feel like there’s good momentum, I’ll let go after date 3. It’s not super common that a girl won’t have sex during date 2. 

This is a pretty efficient overall arc for me. Different guys will do different things, and you should do whatever arc you like and find effective. Xbtusd says he LOVES to take girls dancing on a weekend night. That wouldn’t be my first choice, primarily because I don’t like it that much, but also because a lot of girls won’t like it (too chaotic for them, don’t dance, don’t like dancing), and it’s a chaotic environment that may lead to the girl getting distracted. The girl also has to decide she wants to come back at the end of the night, whereas with my model, for date 2, she’s already at a good venue for sex. But xbtusd is working to maximize his own preferences, not necessarily to shoot for the highest lay percentage chance. Nash likes taking girls on a restaurant dinner dates, and he’s the only player I’ve heard of who does this (search for the string “dinner” on his blog, you’ll find lots of discussion). If you’re a guy who knows what he wants and gets results you find satisfying from what you’re doing, do that thing. 

I’ve talked about this some in How to think about “future projection” on dates, and how to retain girls better and in Asking a girl too many questions, date structure. Those contain links to some other players’ thoughts on date structure. Xbtusd feels that he never reads discussions about the specifics of date arcs and models, so I’d like to remedy that deficit. 

Date one is usually one to two hours, unless it’s headed towards fooling around or sex, in which case it can go overnight. Date two can last anywhere from about two hours to all night and into the next morning. Date three is usually an hour or so of “date” and then we get in bed. I’ve tended to try and pull the girl on date one under the theory that, even if she says no, she’ll respect me trying, but some guys have found a two-date model in which they have a chaste and short first date leads to better retention. I don’t have a strong opinion on this subject because I’ve felt my retention has been all right with the “try to pull, but not too hard” model I’ve used since I was in college or just after. Lots of girls never come out the second time, due to any number of factors not under the guy’s control. Chicks are random

Usually I’ll pay for drinks, but if she insists on splitting I don’t fight. It’s smooth if you can pay when she’s not looking, slip the bartender cash or whatever, girls like being girls. Preferably the bars are within walking distance of wherever I live, but that’s not pragmatic for everyone. One goal is for the girl to have to make very few decisions, especially possible “no” decisions. 

Most girls are incapable of leading or making anything happen. If sex and reproduction were the responsibility of girls, the species would crumble because girls wouldn’t make any moves. But women bear far greater costs from gestating and bearing children, making them the pickier sex (as is universal in sexually reproducing species), so it is the responsibility of the man to plan, do, and execute things. If you don’t, some other guy will. A fair number of my sex experiences happened, I’m convinced, cause I was in front of the girl and made the move. Don’t feel fooled or hornsnoggled by feminism. You’ll know that feminism and feminists have a point when girls start asking you out and planning and executing dates (xbtusd says that, in his decades of dating a girl has never planned and executed a date for him). If I waited for girls to do that, I’d still have failed to make sexual debut. Be the man. Feminism is a lie. 

Normal girls like it when you taste them for desert.

Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

12 thoughts on “Date structure and arc: how to plan and execute dates”

  1. I’m a little more aggressive with screening than you. My structure for date #1:

    – Via texting, set up the date at a bar across the street from my apartment. I literally say in the message “there is this cool bar near my place we should check out”.
    – I get there 10 minutes early, order my drink, and take a table. Half the time, I don’t even order anything alcoholic. Ordering before her also avoid the awkward first few minutes where you’re both first meeting each other, while trying to navigate the menu and order.
    – After about 30 or 45 minutes, I ask her “How are you doing on time? Want to come back to my place for another drink?”
    – If she’s down, we go back to my place, have a glass of water on the couch, and I make a move within 10 minutes. Usually we at least make out, if not go all the way in the bedroom.
    – If she’s not down to come right back to my place, I suggest we bounce to a second bar for another drink or some light food. Then I push again for her to come back to my place again.

    Date #2:
    – Always dinner at my place. I usually take her right into my bedroom as soon as she arrives. After our time in bed, we cook food, watch some of a movie, then back to bed for round #2.

    I want to get to a point where I’m screening even harder. Ideally I won’t even be going on a “date” which chicks. Just a 10 minute walk around my neighborhood, then back to my place. I only need 10 minutes with a chick to know if she’s crazy or not — everything else we find out in the bedroom.


    1. I wonder how your pipeline is… some girls need two venues, some need two/three dates… if you have a full pipeline, a full dance card, then yes, screen harder, etc. If you are like most guys and do not have more girls than you can handle or fuck, too much screening might be counterproductive and make you lose girls. If you have too many girls, that is wonderful, but you are also not where 97% of men are…


      1. @The Red Quest: I’m getting about 2 or 3 new first dates a week from cold approach and online dating. If I were waiting with each of these girls until the second date to bang them, then I’d be going on 4 to 6 dates a week — practically every evening of my week would be booked (I HATE double booking dates back-to-back)., I should clarify: that game plan for date #2 is assuming I banged her on date #1. We already fucked and she agreed to come right to my apartment, why kill the excitement with any talking when she arrives?

        I we hadn’t banged on date #1, she still agreed to come right to my place. I don’t pounce on her right as she comes in the door, but it’s pretty clear she DTF and I’ll make a move with 15 minutes of her arriving.


    2. > Date #2:
      – Always dinner at my place. I usually take her right into my bedroom as soon as she arrives. After our time in bed, we cook food, watch some of a movie, then back to bed for round #2.

      Taking her straight to your bedroom seems really aggressive… but there is something I like about it.

      For some girls, I am sure it would be too much. For a lot of girls… I think it would turn them on. I am guessing 50/50.

      For girls I am already dating… I often pin them to the wall as they walk in the door. Then drag them to bed. Then food and a more social date after sex.

      If you had a clear sexual intent on the first date, they might be more ready for that move.

      There is something about it I like, but I know if I was too committed to this, I’d lose girls, for sure.


      1. >>For some girls, I am sure it would be too much

        That is what I was getting at… I’m guessing the approach will lose some girls, but, if a guy is doing generally well, he may not care, or prefer a straight “yes or no.”

        In periods when I’ve had too many girls, I’m much more cavalier and not trying to “optimize” game cause if one drops off, the other four will pick up the slack. In periods when I’ve had too few, I’ve usually preferred more optimal game that’s receptive to where the girl is.


  2. > Nash likes taking girls on a restaurant dinner dates, and he’s the only player I’ve heard of who does this (search for the string “dinner” on his blog, you’ll find lots of discussion)

    I do like dinner dates.

    On the one hand, “eating” is normal. Lovers eat/talk/fuck/sleep together. That is what they do together. To eat together is just part of the experience of being together. And to avoid it, is often to create friction. It is unnatural to avoid it.

    One the other hand, IF YOU SIT SIDE BY SIDE, you can really touch her, and “create a bubble” that is hard to create in some other spaces. SIDE BY SIDE at a table, or at the counter, is great for escalation. I usually sit her down so she is facing the counter, and then I put on leg on either side of her (she is between my legs). I can touch her easily (legs, lower back, slide a hand up to the back of her neck) and I can lean in (goofy internet shit aside, “leaning in” is where the action happens), and do it with the whole restaurant watching and it never feels weird. When I am that close, anytime I lean back I create a nice “push.” I can talk into her ear (very intimate), pull her hair, tell her she smells good. And I have an hour+ to do it.

    There is nothing wrong with dinner. It’s about the man, the “meal” is not what helps/hurts the date.

    Classic date is dinner (very close to my house, I have excellent logistics right now), and then “Hey, I am going to go back to my place and have some chocolate, come with me.” I am amazed at the % of girls that say “sure” and 5 mins later we’re in my kitchen. 10 min later, I am making out with them. Very true here in Japan, but I did this over and over in SF also.

    And it is not about DINNER, either. This is a great plan for LUNCH DATES too (exact same plan). And, I wanted to prove the point, so I did a BREAKFAST DATE, 1st date, less than hour, daylight, completely sober, my place, sex.

    For me, there is a bigger lesson here about what is important: It’s not drinks, or darkness (although those are fine, too). This is the SEXUAL MARKETPLACE. As long as you are actually playing a sexual game, you and her are in the sexual marketplace… that is where sex happens. I can play sexual games over breakfast, or any other time… because I am a sexual man. That is why “dinner” is no problem for me. Lunch dates… are very sexy dates. I have closed a lot of girls after lunch.

    Drinks and “let’s meet at 9 PM” or whatever is totally fine, but can be rigid and totally unnecessary – none of that is essentially sexual. This is not the “having drinks marketplace,” after all.

    You can strip it down to what matters: You, her, putting your hands on her, dialing up the vibe. That is a hot date. And that is all that matters. Can be done at dinner, lunch, breakfast even. This is a very big lesson about a kind of Game that penetrates and isn’t cluttered up with unnecessary “traditions.”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. You’re unusual. Guys I know in real life who do dinner dates do them because they feel they have to, and they lack the imagination to do anything differently. I encourage them to read THE GAME, etc., but it doesn’t work until they’re broken up with or get divorced, but that’s another story. I’ve never heard of any online player (apart from you) saying he does or likes dinner dates. You do it, you like it, you’re successful at it.

      Based on you raving about it on Twitter, I downloaded Brad P.’s memoir, and he talks about not drinking at all. Man, his stories are fantastic, I have a post about coming up about that book, and there are so many game takeaways embedded in it.

      Guys don’t have to drink, but, like Delicious Tacos tweeted, alcohol is steroids for liking people.


  3. I’m a big proponent of the chaste first date.

    1. I want to check the chick out, to see if I even like her and want to go further

    2. I want her to wonder why I didn’t make a move.

    I have had women tell me (in bed on date 2), “I didn’t even know if you liked me or not!”,

    which I think is good for creating mystery, getting her to wonder about me, creating a frame of her chasing me.

    Also, not going for makes me different than every other first date she’s probably been on in her life.

    That’s my thinking at least.

    For a fleshed out version of why I never even try for sex on the first date. I’ll leave this link:

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yeah, this is a version of what Magnum calls the “two-date model,”

      My historical practice has been to push for first-date fuck, and fall back on date two, under the theory that she’ll respect the effort. I didn’t hear guys talking about the two-date model until I was somewhat headed out of the game. I can see how it might work better.

      For a lot of the 2010-2019, or so, period, I was also doing various kinds of non-mono and therefore was rarely without sex for an extended period of time, so I may have been subconsciously screening.

      The BradP dating memoir is even more extreme, … he talks about how he pushes for night-of-meeting sex with girls he meets on the street, in clubs, &tc. Probably not optimal in many respects and that guy is a wild man.

      >>The reason why I get sex on the second date, EVERY TIME, is that I only date women that are already showing high interest.

      (From your blog.)

      Challenge here is that you’ll filter out some of the girls, especially higher SMV ones… the “maybe” girls… I wonder if you’re very attractive to start with… the high attractiveness guys can get away with this stuff better. But, if you’ve got a big funnel, I can see how it might work…


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