Tough conversations. Downside of being known as a player

Tough conversations this weekend. I’m having some challenges making some of the changes I want to make, and I am suffering some right now because I have been a player for a long time and have a player reputation and a lot of player instincts. The player instincts don’t serve me well in trying to develop a longer-term relationship with a woman who has a more secure attachment style and who knows what she wants.

A word on reputation and what chicks are looking for. Players tend to filter out family-oriented chicks. A few guys have been talking about this on Twitter, although none blog, so I can’t link a canonical post on the subject. But chicks who want monogamy and families exist: they’re the ones who are not interested in guys who give off player vibes. Some are very pretty. They usually have a small number of lifetime sex partners, don’t have sex immediately, and find guys who are attractive, have their shit together, and are career-oriented. Priorities and what you bring to life (Katie’s story) is about this type of chick. Sexually adventurous chicks make for interesting and fun stories… extremely family-oriented chicks don’t, usually. I am thinking of two chicks I know who were (and are) very pretty and followed the family-life pattern. Often these chicks will compromise somewhat on “looks and extroversion” to get “family-oriented and monogamous.” They often find long-term guys in their 20s and often work jobs that give them access to guys with good earnings and family orientation.

Many family-oriented, mostly monogamous chicks who will have one or two flings in their lives… if you catch them at the right time with the right game you may get with one… but these chicks keep their wilder impulses under control and filter guys for being better dads and providers. This is the kind of woman who, if you cold approach her, will say “no” and move on. She’s probably never been on Tinder or, if she has, she quit it in disgust. She’s not doing the things Red Pill guys complain about, but she’s also looking for a guy commensurate to her in value, so low value guys are going to be just about sexually invisible to her. Many online Red Pill guys are low value and thrashing about women because it’s almost impossible to overcome being low value, kind of like fat chicks complaining about men. For fat chicks, their number one problem in accessing higher-value men is being fat, and pretty much nothing they do without changing their diets and movement habits will improve their situation.

Reputation matters and chicks are going to judge you on, like you judge them on it (if you know them). The skills a player has are also not identical to the skills needed in high-quality, long-term relationships, where higher levels of investment and intimacy are useful. Guys in long-term relationships shouldn’t go full supplicant beta, and they should still have good frame, etc., but negotiation skills are more important, and, when the chick is invested, she is often not playing games. A lot of seduction advice focuses on the needs and psychologies of younger party shit-testing chicks who are out for a good time. Nothing wrong with those chicks (it would be crazy of me to knock them given my life history), but the psychology of a secure chick looking for a family is often different and if you have a “game” and “frame control” mindset, you will frustrate her… maybe to the point of her leaving so she can find a secure attachment guy herself. Invested, psychologically secure chicks behave and negotiate differently than non-invested, insecure chicks. You can get these chicks through day or even night game, but the seduction process is probably going to be longer and she’s going to be judging you more on fundamentals.

I’m sure lots of guys are familiar with the other side of the player reputation… if you’re known in high school/college as the beta guy who can’t get chicks, that becomes self-perpetuating. Pretty, socially savvy girls won’t have anything romantic to do with you, and they will often shame the other girls who might. So you have to go pretty far down to get a girl at all. It’s possible to break out of this frame, but super difficult and usually takes a lot of self-improvement.

Relationships have “stacks” from initial sighting, opening/approach, early flirting, dates, kissing, foreplay, sex, committed relationships, cohabitation/marriage, children, etc. Obviously these stages can be very compressed, as when you meet a chick at a party and f**k her an hour later… in high school I knew a chick who apparently got pregnant from the first time she had sex, for 15 seconds, the guy finished inside her, and she had the kid and gave the kid up for adoption. That’s extreme compression. Normally it’s drawn out. Chicks usually talk the most about evaluating guy quality and getting him into a committed relationship, that stage forward. Guys often talk the most about the opening parts, since guys make the opening offers and chicks evaluate offers. My problems right now feel more like they are at the middle of the stack, not the end. For many players, the question is all about getting to sex… what happens later is less concerning. Many guys end up married and having kids with the one or two okay women who will let them get that far… which is sad… but it is common… cause they never learn game or develop their value.

I don’t want to get more specific in this post, but the tough conversations this weekend generated it. I’m feeling pretty low because of them. Obviously it’s true that there’s always another woman around the corner…. but for me, the supply of available, high-quality women who I’ve known for a long time is small. Given some of my own unusual views, it’s not always easy for me to find women who fit some of my own criteria.