Women want to follow your lead: a story about a woman presenting two ways

Years ago I dated this average-but-pretty woman, and I slowly introduced her to sex-positive culture and sex parties. When we first started dating she presented a fairly average relationship and sex history. Over the course of a month or two I got her to go to a sex party with me and then eventually got her to swap partners. That was hard for her at first, and about half of women I’ve gotten to do this find it very hard, while about half are pretty curious to try it out (contrary to some of the manosphere descriptions). She did do it and over time she became more sex-positive. In her rhetoric and actions she began to favor of group sex and consensual non-monogamy.

Eventually things soured because I wouldn’t move in with her and refused to make a long-term commitment. A long time ago I decided that cohabitation is not for me, and refusing the “next steps” has probably been the end of my last 10 – 15 short- to medium-term relationships. Most women have their own dating timeline and it moves from meeting to kissing to casual sex to deep sex to moving in, marrying, and children.

My timeline stops at deep sex and most women will break up with me when I tell them after a couple months that there is no “next” step to the relationship. It is possible to lie and let women dangle for long periods of time, but I think it’s mean, deceptive, and hurts both the woman and the guy telling the lie. Women also have tight reproductive timelines and for women over the age of 30 it’s cruel to let them invest years of their reproductive prime in a relationship that isn’t going anywhere.

Plus, if you let a woman age 30+ invest years of her reproductive prime in you, don’t be surprised if she takes matters into her own hands and “forgets” to take her birth control. Or she gets her IUD out and doesn’t have it replaced.

You may argue that’s unethical. I agree. It’s also unethical and cruel to let a woman invest years of her reproductive prime at age 30+ in a relationship that won’t lead to kids. Yes, she should “know better,” but so should you. Have fun with her for a couple months, then be straightforward about being a player and not wanting  kids (or kids with her).

I did like this woman and I did like the way she had sex. Like most women who breakup for timeline issues we did keep hooking up for a while. In these situations it’s common for the woman to find another guy, date him, break up with him, and come back for more sex.

I don’t think any of her friends totally knew what we were up to, although some could read between the lines when they’d ask what we were doing and I’d say things like, “Going to a party,” and when they’d ask if they could come, I’d explain that I’m not sure it was for them and that I wasn’t the host. If you do this kinda shit with a smile you can get away with it. Some of them would drunkenly confide their own dark sex desires to me, because they knew I’d keep those desires secret.

Recently this guy I work with acquired a new girlfriend. One night I finally meet her and it’s the same one from my story before! Just older. Meeting for her was awkward for her and for him, because we obviously knew each other. I just did my usual thing in this circumstance and was like, “Oh hey, I remember you from Joe’s party.” Like I said women want to fall into your frame and she fell right into mine again, saving face and making sure it’s less awkward than it would be otherwise for the guy dating her.

Part of the reason this encounter went more smoothly than it could have is because she knows I don’t want to shame her in front of her new man. I don’t want to out her. She knows that my sex positivity is real. She acquiesced to taping sex acts that could be viewed as degrading because she knew, correctly, that I would never use those tapes against her.

Some snippets of those tapes are still on the Internet but she is not identifiable in them. If you are part of the secret society and really keep the “secret” part of the secret society, good things will happen to you.

I’m 95% sure she’s not going to tell the guy she’s dating that she’s fucked me and fucked a bunch of other guys and gals with me. I’m pretty sure my colleague has a normal frame and worldview about women that does not include understanding that women love sex and will do almost anything for a guy they really want to keep. He couldn’t imagine this woman partner-swapping and fucking a guy whose name she doesn’t even know while I do the same to his girl. I feel kinda bad for the guy, but it is not my job to wake him up; that is his job. He is a fine guy overall but he presents to women as weak and normal so I’m sure women treat him that way.

He should know or suspect her history, but his mind doesn’t want to go there. People can tell which guys are players and which guys are losers who can’t get dates, and while I’ve mostly stopped bringing dates to most company or industry functions, people know. I try to minimize that reputation because it doesn’t help me for the most part, but it is not possible to fully hide who you are.

Also, I’m sure that some of the commenters will say that all women are willing to go to orgies and engage in gang bangs and the depraved shit I like. Not true. I’ve tried. Women have turned me down or just run away because group sex or partner swapping is not congruent with their personalities. That’s fine with me. I’d say they’re the minority of women, probably under 25%, but they exist.

Over time though most women will follow your lead. I want to be a hedonistic slut and over time demand that women do the same. Most will. My colleague probably wants women to present as demure and so they probably will present that way. Most people do not actually stand for anything, so they follow the lead of the strongest person they see.

Happy New Year and make 2017 the year you do the shit you really want to do. Don’t let other people tell you how to run your life. It is up to you to create the world you want to live in. The vast majority of the population just goes through other people’s ruts and other people’s paths.

To quote another writer, “Your woman is pretty much malleable to whatever values or life you to intend to live, if your frame is strong enough.” There are exceptions but in most cases women respond to authentic frames and want a guy strong enough to graciously and gracefully lead them. If you have that frame a lot becomes possible. Most women hide their deep sexual desires for fear of being judged by other women and by men. The number who will speak about how they feel or act out their fantasies is small because most women are constrained by the box other women and men put around them. I try to open that box.

Show her what type of man you are so she knows what kinda woman to be.

Someone asked me whether most guys in non-monogamous relationships are secretly or overtly bisexual. I don’t think so, and guys who are bi or want to experiment with men can go to any gay bar any night of the week to do so. They don’t need to go to a sex club. Gay guys do what straight guys wish they could and have sex all the time. So there’s really no need to go through the whole party and club process that straight group sex entails.

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Author: The Red Quest

How can we live and be in society?

14 thoughts on “Women want to follow your lead: a story about a woman presenting two ways”

  1. >> I’m sure that some of the commenters will say that all women are willing to go to orgies and engage in gang bangs and the depraved shit I like. Not true.
    >> Women have turned me down or just run away because group sex or partner swapping is not congruent with their personalities
    >> they’re the minority of women, probably under 25%, but they exist.

    So you think 75% of women are open to sex parties and partner swapping?

    Wow.

    I’m tempted to argue… But I trust your POV on this topic. And, I am likely one of the guys that “doesn’t get it” in this regard.

    And I know every girl likes to be choked. Like 98%. And I’ve seen guys surprised by that, when it’s totally normal for me.

    Great piece, man.

    Like

    1. So you think 75% of women are open to sex parties and partner swapping?

      Wow.

      Hard to say. Probably if you did a survey, only 10% of women be willing to say that they’re open.

      But that’s about 75% of the women I’ve already been sleeping with long enough to ask the question… so it’s not a random sample at all. The question is hard to answer. I’m 100% sure, however, that far more women are interested than would admit it in public or to their boyfriends.

      Women also like to follow. So a lot of women who have already invested in a guy and who are used to the guy leading will be open to it. The most common reaction I’ve gotten to women who’ve gone with me to a club or party is, “I never thought I would do that!!!!”

      I’m guessing that most women who are willing to be picked up on the street would also be willing to go to a sex club.

      Like

      1. >> I’m guessing that most women who are willing to be picked up on the street would also be willing to go to a sex club.

        I can say that most women I’ve picked up HAVE been to a strip club. Not the same as a sex club, but it’s true. And about 50% of girls I’ve asked are very clear what kind of girl they would pick out at a strip club (that’s a fun question to ask a girl).

        >> Hard to say. Probably if you did a survey, only 10% of women be willing to say that they’re open.

        Mostly… we never care what women say when asked directly. Particularly in a group/public setting. It’s more about if you get them in the right mood… what might they say.

        A woman’s “truth” changes like the wind. You have to catch her in the right moment to know her potential.

        >> I’m 100% sure, however, that far more women are interested than would admit it in public or to their boyfriends.

        Another game I play sometimes with women is to talk about 3somes, but turn the question around. I’ll tell a girl that most guys have fantasized about being w/ two girls. And then I say, “but most guys don’t think much about a girl being w/ two guys.” And then, I’ll ask if she’s ever fantasized about that. Again, hard to say if the answer you get is real…

        I’m not into “MMF” 3somes myself, but it’s a way to get into the grit of a girls sexual mind.

        But this leads me to a similar place in our understanding of women’s minds/sexualitites… would she like to be DP’d? Would she go to a sex club… and swap partners? The truth is guaranteed to be that this is all more common than most men would expect.

        But I think your “women like to follow” comment is very much on point. Without a man to work out logistics and to push for it… the super kinky stuff is less likely to happen.

        Like

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