Roasted at Thanksgiving this year, and the legend of Ms. Slav

At Thanksgiving this year I got roasted… hot young Ms. Slav was the main topic of conversation… even though she wasn’t there and I’ve not seen her in a while, and none of the participants were present for her presence at Thanksgiving two years ago. Word gets around, and a jealous relative brought her up early by saying, “Whatever happened to your girlfriend Ms. Slav anyway?” From there, others took up the theme, and I think extensive snide commentary and questions about her were an attack on my current arrangement, and haters love revenge.

If you f**k with the social order of things, the social order of things will f**k with you back. Women hate seeing older guys with hot young chicks, not just because the older guy is unavailable but because seeing an older guy with a hot young chick will give other guys ideas, which is far worse than the one weird outlier guy who gets the girl every other guy wants. Guys hate seeing older guys with hot young chicks because the other guy is envious. Not all guys… some guys are past bullshit envy and will be genuinely happy for another guy getting one over on society and knobbing a tight young girl… but the majority want to be the hammer pounding the nail that sticks out.

For most guys I think Thanksgiving, yesterday, would’ve been uncomfortable… for me it was a bit annoying to see the social order fighting back, with the representatives of the social order behaving like zombies, not even realizing who or what is pulling their strings… but it is what it is, and I knew that I was pulling a social ret**rd move by bringing Ms. Slav into that part of my life. I should’ve “accidentally” put some pics of me f**king her on my phone and then “accidentally” had them on the screen, when I was supposed to be showing cute dog or apartment pics. If you want to be a player, some bad things will come from it, and it seems to me that most guys who’ve truly been players and written about it don’t emphasize the bad parts. It can be lonely, and it can be alienating, and it can cause intense envy and jealousy. Older women are jealous they’re not young and hot any more; guys are jealous that you’re going to take home a hot slut and they’re going to take home no one, or their heavy wife who doesn’t like them any more anyway. Few women love men more than sugar. Few women love men more than sloth.

Emotions and Ms. Slav, Low-cut top girl and a weird foursome

Last Friday, after a decent interval since I’d last seen her (er, had sex with her…), Ms. Slav came over and we discussed this, and what else in her life has been going on (a lot), what else has been going in mine (not that much), and the nature of being in different stages of life. The sex was weirdly tender and emotional… I don’t think it was “goodbye sex,” but it may be “de-escalation” sex. She is still learning a lot of things (more on that later). One nice thing about Ms. Slav is that pretty much any time we get together, we have sex, no matter what else is happening. Regular f**king really does smooth over a lot of other issues… if more women understood this and implemented it, the divorce rate would be considerably lower. Just getting on the knees and sucking a couple times a week really does strengthen relationships. Couples therapists need to start assigning blowjob therapy if they are serious about helping people in relationships.

Low-cut top girl DID show up to the foursome, and I was pretty surprised. She dressed in an outfit very similar, or maybe identical, to the one she was wearing the night I met her… only two months ago… feels like a lot longer.

The foursome was pretty straightforward, although early on the woman in the other couple asked a lot of questions about how we know each other and what our relationship is like. I thought I might be headed home alone, as the other couple could tell we don’t know each other well. Many couples prefer to swap with another established, firm couple, as that limits some kinds of jealousy, as well as some mate-poaching behavior. Alcohol and novelty won the day, however, and I split a hotel room with the other guy. Woman was pretty but not too special, late 20s/early 30s, and she and her man had clearly made the full swap decision ahead of time. The other guy wanted to make a sex tape (like me!), but she nixed it. All in the game. I did a really nice job railing her from behind and got into that zone where the sex is pleasurable but not so overwhelming as to make me finish early. The woman also didn’t tighten as much as some women do when they orgasm, so that let me keep going. High-performance nights are always nice.

The other guy had performance troubles, so I gave him a bit of substance to help, and about 45 minutes later he was ready to go. I told him that it’s common to seek certain aids in that situation, as it can be harder to perform in a group among novel participants than among basic one-on-one sex. Plus, just trying to put people at ease when they’re uncomfortable or anxious goes a long way to solving discomfort or anxiety. “It’s okay, don’t worry about it, it happens to everyone sometimes” are all magic words. Sort of like how players know that “It’s okay, you can leave any time you want to” often disarms LMR. I have sometimes stood up when I’m with a girl and moved away from her and said, “The door is right over there. I’m not forcing you to do anything you don’t want to do. You can walk out now or any time.” A little comfort is useful.

Overall a successful evening. Low-cut top girl was annoyed that I wouldn’t let her stay in the hotel. I needed to go home and told her needed to as well. She argued that I had already paid for the hotel, which was true, but I told her that I also needed to go home. I told her that if she wanted to stay she had to give them her credit card, which she wouldn’t do. Bit of an ugly scene. May have cued the other couple to make an independent play for her. I hope they do. Low-cut top girl is absolutely the sort of chick who’d clean out the mini-bar and order $500 in bullshit on my card. Doesn’t speak well of her, now that I read my own description of her. I need to find more compatible chicks. I would actually trust Ms. Slav not to do that kind of shit. She might do it inadvertently, because that’s what she does in expensive hotels.

This week, Low-cut top girl has been sending me a lot of messages (many of them I’m not replying to, in keeping my “once per day at most” texting and Internet distraction philosophy) but refusing to come over… that might be for the best. We’ve been on an accelerated timeline, so maybe from open to ending is going to occur in less time than usual. After our foursome that is surprising, even to me, but that foursome may have been a one-time thing. She samples the food, doesn’t care for it, is glad she tried it, moves on with her life.

Low-cut top girl also wants to know why I don’t take her out to dinner, which, along with music/concerts, has been a historical sore point and push-pull point for me and chicks. I told her to read The Millionaire Next Door (a great book, you should read it). I might give her a copy if I see her again, though she is the kind of girl who is going to yo-yo back and forth or just ghost me when she finds another dude. I have lower financial discipline than I did when I really had no money… I need to quit buying camera gear, which is a vice of mine… but I still have pretty decent financial disipline… and part of that is just not spending money on stupid shit like expensive dinners out. I like a lot of what are now called “fast casual” places… she apparently likes expensive sit-down places? I dunno, I can countenance those at work… I can deal with them rarely… a lot of the time I’d rather just have some falafel or a burrito bowl, plus extra cash in pocket. Real freedom is not having to worry about money.

Most restaurants are also just too damn noisy, and that’s terrible for social bonding or learning.

Mostly, though… it’s the money… and the number of people who are better to talk to, than a book is to be read… well… it’s not as high as I’d like. This girl also liked expensive restaurants, but she was kind of weird in public… she’d be fine in private, one-on-one, but didn’t interact well in public. It was like dating two different chicks, personality-wise. Oddly, that girl wants to get a drink w/ me… I have been meaning to do it.

I tweeted, “Building the mind is a lifelong project.” If you are not reading you are probably not learning as much as you can or should.

Ms. Slav, though… Ms. Slav is also discovering the downside of saying “yes” too much… she is stretched thin. I would phrase it as, she is giving away a lot of value… so everyone is coming out to grab some… and she needs to retract / guard her value a little better. Chicks would never frame something this way… but that is what I see. I told her about my growing discomfort with how I am living, and my desire to do something different. I think she gets it. Although she thinks I can do family AND do the life I have been living… it’s not impossible, just really f**king unlikely. One rule in game is to assume the median girl, at least until proven otherwise. Guys know that it’s POSSIBLE to be standing around at a regular party or whatever, and have some stunning 8 open you and then f**k her later that night. It’s also POSSIBLE for Tinder to work that way. It’s just super unlikely. You want to take high-percentage shots. In today’s NBA, that means threes or right next to the basket. It’s POSSIBLE to win with a lot of long twos… just not likely.

Guys who want to win, try to put themselves in the best position possible to win at whatever their game is. For a guy who wants to be in the game, that means moving to a city and not living in a rural area or an exurb. For a guy who wants a kid, how I am living… is not the optimal way to go about that goal.

With Low-cut top girl, I feel like I am experiencing deja vu… she is new to me but is overall close to the typical female. So close that I feel like I’ve already seen everything she says or does. Ms. Slav is the exact opposite.

Low-cut top girl: first sex club experience, plus DRAMA

I took Low-cut top girl to a sex club last weekend, and, to spoil the story some, it was an unusual experience because MS. SLAV WAS THERE. She came in after a while, that is. Low-cut top girl and I had finished our first round already, which is good. I’d previously checked with Ms. Slav, and Ms. Slav told me she was going to a private event the same night, so I figured I was all good… Ms. Slav likes to f**k other people but does not seem to like it when I do the same: I think she is struggling for that reason.

So: Low-cut top girl is extremely boring and average in a lot of ways, and therefore I accelerated the usual development path somewhat because I am not sure about keeping her around… we had a long talk about what sex clubs are like, why I like going, etc. I had to lead her through the whole thing… what are the peak experiences in your life… yes, many of them are sexual… so what if you could try to experiment with real peak experiences… you know how boring normal parties are, right?… it’s not that much fun to stand around drinking and making dumb remarks to people… at parties, everyone is thinking about what everyone else looks like naked… etc. She is pretty conventional, not just sexually but in every aspect of her life. Still like her in bed, though.

I spent a couple hours walking through why sex clubs are fun and what happens there. I gave her a book, More Than Two, that she didn’t read because she’s too busy on her phone and social media. I framed this as a fun thing we can try and if she doesn’t like it, she doesn’t like it. This low-stakes framing is useful for ambivalent first-timers.

The night of, I told her to come over about an hour before I actually needed her to come over, which was smart because she was late getting ready. She does clean up nice, though. We got to the club at about the right time, an hour or so before things got started… lots of new faces there, along with some old friends, which made for a good mix. On bad nights there are no attractive people there and the best thing to do is leave. That is not a good introduction but it can happen. I encouraged her to kiss another girl and she did, and they both loved it and were very bashful after. I also got the other couple’s digits, an important point for later.

I like putting on a show and Low-cut top girl has some exhibitionist tendencies, so we were among the first wave to hit the main f**k space. I took loads of time going down on Low-cut top girl and using toys on her before f**king her. Another couple (different than the first) joined us, and the girl caressed and kissed Low-cut top girl, which she liked very much. They wanted to go further but I told them about Low-cut top girl’s first night status, meaning we were going to stick with each other, which they respected. I finished sooner than I would have liked but I was very stimulated and did not hold back well.

Such is the game… we put underwear back on, left to get a drink, and as we were hanging out near the bar and THERE WAS MS. SLAV, coming right towards us, like a monster in a monster movie. We saw each other about the same time. Having had this kind of collision before, I knew that there is no way forward other than brazenly, so I introduced Ms. Slav to my “lover” Low-cut top girl, and I asked Ms. Slav what relationship term she prefers… she picked lover too… so I introduced her to Low-cut top girl like it was very normal. Ms. Slav had some guy and a girl I know with her.

Ms. Slav was obviously angry. Obvious to me, I mean. I asked about the other party and why they didn’t go to it, and some kind of girl drama had made them change plans. I had told Ms. Slav that I might hit the sex club that night… I just didn’t specify who I’d be with. Like most public clubs, it requires men to have dates on some nights, and I would never go to a club on a night that admits unattached single men. Realistically I can go without a date on a couple night, as I’m a known quantity and know how to behave, but I prefer to bring one. We did some more chit-chat, then I said that I didn’t want to stop them.

When I let Ms. Slav and her dates go to the bar, I took Low-cut top girl to another part of the club… I wish the music had been quieter. Low-cut top girl wanted to know all about Ms. Slav and why I hadn’t told her about Ms. Slav… I told her that I hadn’t decided about her yet, and that she hadn’t proven herself to me one way or another. This confused her… angered her… aroused her a little bit. She wanted to know how many other girls I’m seeing, that kind of numbers thing that is not very interesting to people in the scene but very intersting to people outside it.

She seemed to get over her shock and we eventually went back to the main room… Ms. Slav and her dates went to one of the more private rooms, I think. We had sex again. Unfortunately, some guy came over and put his hand on her while we were f**king… and I was like “HEY BUDDY, NOT NOW.” That is a major etiquette breach. After we were done I had to go find the hosts and tell them about it.

On the way back Low-cut top girl was full of questions about Ms. Slav. She was very surprised, I think, by how hot Ms. Slav is… really hot young girls are disruptive to the social order. I think Low-cut top girl knows that she can’t compete on beauty alone. She, in particular, also can’t compete on intellect/achievement, although she thinks she is very samrt. People who think they’re brilliant but are not are very tiresome, but Low-cut top girl and I have (mostly) been f**king and not doing too many other things where I would have to listen to her.

She was still drugged up from the experience, despite us not taking drugs. There is a “slip into a magic world” quality that a good group sex experience has. Despite the Ms. Slav encounter the club was pretty good and had some attractive couples in it, though that isn’t guaranteed, and a bad first experience can turn an unsure girl against the whole environment forever. She even said she was surprised that cool/attractive people were there.

She also said she’d be up for dates with another couple. We’ll see about that one from the club… I may try to hook her up w/ a couple Ms. Slav and I have seen… the girl in that couple is fantastically hot. Guy seems not bad either, and he’s a personal trainer (but not an idiot), while she also works in an aspect of the fitness industry. The first time I f**ked her, she asked after how old I am… I told her to guess… she missed by like ten years… she seemed put off when she found out the answer, but I just said the usual, “Are you having a great experience tonight?” She said yes and I was like, “That’s all that matters.”

Our first club experience could also be the impetus for letting Low-cut top girl go, as she is not a good long-term person for me: she is not as hot as I’d like, and she can be annoying to be around at times. But I am also weak… there is a private event weekend after this one. Depending on what happens, I may try bringing her to that too. If I can get her in the scene, I will not have to field requests for moronic brunches and drinks she wants to go to. I think she wants to show me off, but I am lacking in the time necessary to deal. I also don’t like how much she drinks… I think it compromises her life and her body. Low-cut top girl also told me that she KNEW I am a fuckboy. She was hitting me and laughing at the same time. She seemed not to know her own emotions. Going to a f**k club can be like hitting molly, without the molly.

On Sunday I talked to Ms. Slav… she seemed angry that I hadn’t told her about Low-cut top girl. I told Ms. Slav that she does her own thing, and I also do my own thing. She said I should at least tell her. I told her that she never asked. Which is true. She just about never asks me. I have been seeing her less frequently… does she think I have taken monastic vows? We’ve talked about reciprocity before, and that is something she finally acknowledges she has some problems with. There was no resolution… Ms. Slav is also still dealing with family issues. No real resolution there. “Drift away” could be the resolution.

Monday night, I got a long text from Low-cut top girl saying that she doesn’t want to see me anymore because she is falling for me and knows that I will break her heart. I read this as, “Most of the guys she’s dated are more into her than she is into them, and she can’t believe the opposite is happening.” Because I haven’t immediately fallen for her, she is becoming more enchanted with me. She said that she knew I was too confident because of the way I stopped her on the street. (Originally she said she admired me for the some reason/behavior).

Overall Low-cut top girl’s trajectory is consistent with some other trajectories I have seen in the last ten years… some chicks are up for this and some are not. I’ve speculated that as many as 75% of chicks are up to sex clubs, and I think Low-cut top girl is among them… but seeing Ms. Slav at her first event, and seeing that I have other lovers, is too much for her. She needs a more gradual admission. Most chicks are NOT like Ms. Slav, who just plowed right in.

Despite Low-cut top girl’s proclamation, though, I put her in a group text with the other couple from the club, and we all now have plans to get drinks this weekend. Low-cut top girl and I have not been communicating, except through that group text… so she may cancel, not show up, etc. Chicks are random, as we all know. Then again she might show up. She has kept jumping away from me, only to be reeled back in by my non-reactivity.

There is no cure to human drama… the drama just changes shape, depending on the social structure of the humans involved. I have chosen a different social structure than most people, and it is LOWER drama than most social structures (I think). But I have also refused to commit to a primary partner recently, and that increases the drama level. Ms. Slav is too young. I need to get out of this scene and make my way into something else. My actions don’t match my words, though. I’m doing the things I’m used to doing… it has also been harder for me to connect with the women I’ve been seeing. Peaches, strangely, may be the woman I’ve felt closest to. I didn’t say emotions or feelings have to make sense. That kind of statement is usually an excuse, and maybe it is here, but it is where I am right now.

Apologies if some of this story is poorly organized: I began it Sunday and have been updating it along with events and random thoughts. The free book also doesn’t cover a situation like a collision between two lovers at a sex event, because that is too rare and weird to worry about. 

Two possible paths forward: Hedonistic partying vs children

I realized something else about Ms. Slav: I’m tempted by her because I think that, together, we could do a lot to build up the non-monogamous community and tell a lot of people about non-monogamy; that sounds grandiose, but hear me out. Like I wrote in this other post, you have to be cool / have status first. IMO I have reasonable status and Ms. Slav combines being young and hot with unusual intelligence and a total love of non-monogamy, sex clubs, group sex, etc. So much so that I was a little bit confused when I first brought her into the scene… most chicks need a fair amount of coaxing, coaching, help, etc. Ms. Slav just ran straight in, blew right past me, and is deep in.

Already, some of the non-monogamous dating we’ve done has been unexpectedly intense. Ms. Slav is a true bisexual, it seems, and likes to dominate women… a very powerful combination, since most women are submissive and reactive, so, when two bisexual women get together, they often fizzle because neither one will start things up… chicks are used to guys leading. Many bi chicks like couple-to-couple dating because the guys will guide the chicks into the hookup, which the chicks can’t manage on their own. One theme game guys learn is that a lot of chicks have trouble doing things without guidance/motivation/external stimuli… that may be why chicks do well in school and then don’t make it to the very top of workplaces, since top jobs demand autonomy and internal motivation, not just “do task a, then task b.”

Peter Thiel says that groups can get things done that individuals cannot. He is writing about companies, but that is true of other kinds of organizations, groups, and ideas too. We’re experiencing a feminist hellscape because lots of small groups of feminists got together in the 60s and 70s to figure out how they can extract more value from men, and they largely succeeded (their narrative is somewhat different than the one I have just presented, although the results are the same). I think I can do something similar with Ms. Slav… because she is hot, smart, and uninhibited, we could do a LOT of community-building in a way that I have not seen in other chicks.

Most people are only interested in their immediate needs and surroundings. Most guys who start to read the pickup literature, never do anything with it… the ones who begin practicing, most don’t write about it… the ones who write, most give up quickly… the ones who don’t, most don’t write books that might transcend their blogs… the number of guys who go beyond all that, is quite small. And usually they find themselves embedded in a group of some kind. One possible mistake I have made is not writing online sooner, although this might not have been a mistake, as I was focused on work and other matters and correctly anticipated that writing online could be a huge time sink with zero financial payoff. That anticipation has been totally correct. Importantly, though, Ms. Slav and I could built a large non-monogamy scene together, especially using couple-to-couple dating as an intake mode. Religious lunatics know that nothing beats person-to-person pitches… so do salesmen… real change happens one person at a time, ideally face-to-face (one weakness of guys writing on the Internet is that neither sees or knows each other… often one or both are full of s**t). I am tempted by doing that kind of messianic zeal with Ms. Slav, and I think she would go for it… she has the attributes for it, particularly if she’s led properly. She’s also young, though, and younger girls have weaker identities and are more prone to sudden shifts.

I’m tempted by her not just for the usual reasons (hot, lots of sex with other hot girls), but because she could be a powerful catalyst for showing other people the way. I have helped to host parties before… the two of us together could be a powerful locus for parties. I’m better organized than she is, not surprisingly, but she also LOVES non-monogamy like no other chick I’ve met, even Libido Girl. Or I should say, “Like no other hot chick I’ve met.” There are some desperate fat chicks who are eager to flaunt their sex positivity. Most chicks will not make crude propositions and come-ons to me, at least before first sex… but low chicks, like 5s and below, sometimes will. It is their only potential source of value, so they use it. Not interesting to me, but enough guys must be willing to take the zero-effort lay for it to work. And fat chicks, older chicks, chicks who aren’t very sexy… like attracts like, which I’ve been talking about too, so they typically can’t host good parties. You have to have a core nucleus of sexy chicks and cool guys to make a party work. Take away the sexy chicks, and the whole thing falls apart.

One sexy chick who can attract and retain other sexy chicks, and you have a potential core/nucleus for a larger group. I have seen this thing sort of start before… but the chicks I’ve been with have never had the right combination of personality, IQ, and desire. The typical chick still fundamentally wants a firm, one-on-one relationship with a cool guy, while the other things are secondary to that primary relationship. Very few chicks think bigger than themselves and their immediate surroundings. That’s true of some guys, too, but I’m not dating guys so I don’t give a f**k about that in these circumstances.

So yeah. I think that’s why I’m stuck on this point. I have a pretty clear question, or set of questions to answer… one way is to ease off the non-monogamy, group-sex thing, and work toward a kid. The other way is to join w/ Ms. Slav and go ALL. THE. WAY. To make the scene really happen. To leverage Feeld and other tools to meet a lot of people and to build a larger community.

If I had met Ms. Slav five years ago I think I would be doing this, or would have done this. Today, though, I feel my desire is not the same, and I am not as interested in building this kind of thing, compared to five years ago. I also recognize that my own desires seem to be shifting.

The trade-off is that doing this with Ms. Slav is not very compatible w/ having a kid. If you are going to comment and tell me how it is compatible w/ kids… please just stop, unless maybe you have had kids of your own… what people believe in theory is so far from what happens in practice, that I don’t want to hear it. Sorry.

Practically every guy on the Internet has some chick who is “not like” the other chicks… Ms. Slav is really not like other chicks. She somewhat knows, I know it.

Art and music event: Ran into that guy again, and other game things

Last night I dragged myself to a kind of art and music insider event (hard to describe it precisely, but it overlaps with the non-monogamy community), and there was… the guy I nicknamed The Bitch,

While we’re talking, the guy who I describe in this story and this one is also there. He turns out to be a bitch, so I’m going to call him The Bitch. The Bitch and I had some rapport before the Ms. Slav thing, but he now hates me. At the party, early on, I nod at him and say hi, and he says nothing back and looks away.

I guess we’re okay now, because we arrived at the same time and had this moment where we were eyeing each other, deciding whether to renew hostilities or not, and I just smiled and treated him normally. So maybe I was overly dramatic in the description. I’m still not a fan of him, but we’re likely to keep running into each other.

The event was way too loud, but I felt like I needed to keep up community status by making an appearance. I furiously hit on a thin, hot chick who had her big tits prominently displayed in a low-cut top; lots of good laughter, banter, etc. but then she denied the number. I went a little more direct in getting it by saying we should get a drink, rather than cloaking intent in future event planning. Later in the night, The Bitch was flirting with her and DID seem to get the number. Not 100% sure, though it seemed like it. Also flirted some with a chick who is pretty new (and hot), though she likes some kind of death metal techno music (don’t recall the specifics of it, but it sounded stupid to me) and I collected the email. Felt a bit on autopilot throughout. Tiredness and previous oversocializing held me back.

I had a break from Ms. Slav while traveling, but the last week has been tiring. I’m a bit socially exhausted and, despite Ms. Slav’s bad behavior, I’d like to keep her in the fold. I’m not sure whether she has an IUD yet or not, but I’m going to keep wrapping it up with her because she is f**king around enough that she is going to have a problem sooner or later. This is not always a popular view online, but I feel like I don’t don’t properly bond with a chick unless we’re bare and I finish in her. I actually think most girls feel similarly.

As for the break, it’s been longer than the traveling… Ms. Slav cancelled a date like an hour before we were supposed to meet, so I went silent for about a week, maybe a little more, then f**ked her right before I left on a trip. It seems like she is now worried about losing me… which is a nice position, but maybe with the wrong girl.

Ms. Slav has a new girlfriend from school, and I would LOVE to get that threesome. But I’m taking it very slowly and circuitously. Less is more. The threesome action w/ Home Friend happened due to patience on my part. Ms. Slav definitively rejected The Bitch in part because of his impatience. He pushed too hard at an event, and that turned her off enough for her to cut him off.

Calibration is such a tricky skill: knowing when to push and when to pull back. Knowing how to leave the girl enough plausible deniability. Knowing how to propose a proposition without it seeming forced. These skills are very hard to articulate. That’s another reason so many online questions from guys are difficult to answer… there is so much calibration and information available from real life, that gets stripped away in online questions and reports. Some of the principles are easy to articulate (raise your value, raise your value delivery mechanism, show your masculinity, think about the law of reciprocation), but getting them appropriately integrated into a given situation… so much tougher. So much more delicate. I think that is why I tend to write long posts, and why I wrote the book… it’s not possible to fully describe what’s happening in a small number of words. Sometimes it is, like when a girl is into you and makes the bang easy, or when a girl isn’t into you and rejects you solidly.

I also hate to sound like a chick, but I am trying to get a little bit more in touch with my own feelings around how I should direct my life. My work life is going pretty well. I’m trying to figure out where my love/sex life should go. Especially as I consider booting up conventional online dating for the first time in a couple years. Non-monogamous online dating has a different set of assumptions embedded in it.

What else… at the yoga studio I go to, a chick with a fiancé (who I met briefly) has been oddly flirty. She’s also a pothead. May try to make a move there. She seems about late 20s / early 30s, low 7. Another chick is much older and moving from student to teacher… I think she’s 40, maybe early 40s, and yet I find myself strangely attracted to her. She’s very slender and a former dancer. Me feeling attracted to her also makes no sense, yet I feel it.

I’ve not had much success at gyms or, recently, yoga studios, in part because I am wary of soiling the atmosphere at places I go regularly and in part because I haven’t, for whatever reason. But there is no intrinsic reason I can discern why this should be so. At yoga studios most people don’t seem to talk to each other, which I find strange… so I make a point of doing chitchat where and when possible. Just little feelers to see who might respond. The pothead responds to them, as does the older woman who is moving into an instructor role.

Come to think of it, that chitchat from the gym did lead to a short bang with a very pretty blonde girl a couple years ago. I should write out that story at some point. I’d mostly forgotten about the girl.

I’m supposed to see Ms. Slav tonight but apart from that I hope to read books and go out for coffee and go to the gym this weekend and not much else.

Ms. Slav flakes, Peaches, masculinity and polarity

Ms. Slav flaked on me earlier this week, sending me an elaborate message that I did not like, and I haven’t heard from her since. Like all people I don’t like flaking, and I really don’t like it an hour before we’re supposed to meet, as that prevents me from making alternate plans. I assume she’ll swing back around at some point, but who knows?

Cassie is drifting away, I think. I think I caught her early in her experience and she is refining what she wants. She may come to an event with me this weekend. Not counting on it.

Peaches told me some interesting things about her husband/marriage…

Peaches, Cassie, Ms. Slav updates and thoughts

Not much to report. Have seen Cassie (1) again and I think she is turning into a reliable once-a-week girl. Easy lay, good in bed. Says she has a cold or flu so she may be out for this weekend. Also has gone to the gym with me once and shows interest in black iron, compound lifts, and I like that. Very strong sexual chemistry. She’s a loud, involved lover. Extremely satisfying. She is very girl, very feminine, in ways I like and appreciate. We spent some time talking shit about social media.

Have seen Peaches (2) again. Also very satisfying sex. She seems not to understand how hot she is, and she told me some unusual background material. She is a bit too much of a follower, and that has harmed her economic life. I can’t imagine she is going to stay married, but I think she only wants upheaval in one part of her life right now. I told her about Ms. Slav and Cassie. We may go to a party together in the next few weeks.

Peaches also says she wants to have a family. This perked my ears. I’ve been thinking about that comment since she dropped it. That would be an intersting line to pursue. Very unlikely that I will pursue it, given the myriad of problems with this line, but we seem to be more aligned in many ways than most girls. She is also in the right age range for me. Younger is great for fun, but girls under the age of 27 or 28 will not work with me for any kind of longer relationship, more substantial relationship.

Peaches entered the non-monogamous world relatively recently and may be getting her total f**k fest phase out of her system. If/when she does… it is not inconceivable to imagine going further with her, based on what I know now. “Not inconceivable” is a low bar.

I saw another guy, successful at game, write…

Towards the end of the year the apathy was starting to set it. It had been a long one and I went through a lot of girls. As was probably apparent in my posts, I was getting fed up. I would frequently think about two things;

What is the point of all this?
What is my endgame?

The point is obviously to meet and have sex with new girls as we are apparently biologically programmed to do as males. I really enjoy meeting new girls on the street and dating them, the chase, it’s great fun. But then you bang them and then what?

In my earlier days I would bask in the glory of a new notch for almost a week. Now that glorious feeling lasts around 5 minutes. I wrote a drunken tweet [4] about feeling empty inside after a recent notch.

Sound familiar? Sure does to me. “Player disease” you might call it. He says he is in his early 30s, so a bit young for those feelings, but they are not unheard of among guys who’ve been in the game a couple years. Some of us, we’re a bit like Tolkien’s Elves, still living in Middle-earth but thinking about going West.

Before I become too insufferably melancholy, Ms. Slav (3) is back and heard about Cassie and me, and she was or is unhappy about that. Not unhappy enough not to f**k me, fortunately. She still seems not to get reciprocity? I talked to Peaches about this dilemma / behavior. The talk with Ms. Slav led to another long talk about principles, but I am not sure Ms. Slav completely absorbed it. She may also be intuiting or feeling my own uncertainty about her. I like her… but our age disparity is too great… and she is too sexually active even for me. If had run into her ten years ago, even five, I might have gone for it. Not today.

No great stories about heroic pickup, just a continuation of previous threads.

It is so interesting talking to people—really talking to them—and they are so different in private than they are on social media. The more I talk to people, deeply, the more I think social media is garbage. The gap between the internal self and the external self is too wide for it to be interesting. All three of the women listed in the title, their true lives are very different from their social media lives. All three of them are much more minimally involved with social media than typical 18 – 30 year old women, but even then the gap is large. Cassie has a job that involves some social media use. I seem to get along better with girls who are not social-media addicts.

Another random thought, I have read a bunch of game or RP guys saying that cooking and eating good food is for chicks and they just open up some cans and eat over the sink. Maybe I am just hungrier, but I make food most days and am diligent about what I eat. I suppose it’s possible to maintain reasonable nutrition with tuna, olives, nuts, etc., but I like variety too much to do that.

If you did not read read this post, please go read it.

Surprised by indifference. Guys can flake too.

Flaked out on Ms. Slav again this weekend. I think she’s surprised by indifference and by the speed with which replacement happens, or has happened, to her… she used to being the queen, the one chased, the one with all the options, and then she runs into me. Don’t get me wrong, I like her a lot. We talked on the phone and danced around the subject. She’s so used to being chased that when a guy (me) doesn’t chase her as she expects him to, she’s uncertain. I’m pretty sure she expected the “primary partner” conversation to go differently than it did, as she’s used to tooling guys.

I’ve written quite a bit about reciprocity and I really mean what I wrote: she became less regular and flakier, and I’ve done the same, in about the same proportion, with her… I’m highly sensitized to female bad behavior. Even small amounts of it trigger defense mechanisms in me, defense mechanisms I’ve learned the hard way. Like the way I’ve learned that “Attention is the only tool modern men have,” which is probably the most important thing I’ve written, and the one it seems many guys have the hardest time implementing. Another way of using attention properly is to follow tit-for-tat after the first couple lays. This strategy is not as good for the very beginning parts of a relationship, when the guy typically has to do more work.

Previously, regarding Ms. Slav, I wrote that I’m unaccustomed to being in the inferior part of the relationship, and I think she is the same. She’s used to being chased. She’s used to having guys adapt their schedules to her, as I used to, and don’t anymore. She has many stories of boys and even men chasing her, desiring her, giving her (sometimes expensive) gifts, prostrating themselves before her, begging attention from her, etc. Guys who get a taste of her puss and fall in love with her. She’s used to saying, “See yah!” and hitting the road. Now she’s encountering all of that in me. Such is the power of even modest game, or, more likely, experience. I have f**ked hot chicks before, I have seen almost every manner of female bad behavior, and I know how to reply to it. I know Ms. Slav can be replaced. She knows that I know, and I know she knows I know, although I don’t thinks she would use the words I’m using.

Indifference is more shocking to her, I think, than love or hate. Being relinquished or released does not happen to her often. But I am not fond of being the #2 or #3 choice. I, however, am used to chicks experiencing sudden temperature swings, and me being dropped by them. Chicks and secret society guys can go colder faster than normal people.

Readers can probably infer that the consensual non-monogamy and sex party world have some problems of the traditionally monogamous world, just transformed but not wholly eliminated. Many adventure stories see the hero transmitted into a dark “mirror world” that is similar to but different from the normal, daylight world. Non-monogamy works similarly.

I still like Ms. Slav more than not, but she has been focused on school and is much more heavily into the scene than even I am. In my view she says, “Yes” too much. To almost all invitations. To guys on Facebook.

I wrote a variant of this previously, but some of you are probably thinking that if I’d just managed Ms. Slav better, she would still be firmly in my orbit. That is possible, but doubtful. She has greater interest in this world than even me.

She is also willing (semi-willing?) to let pictures of her be used for social media purposes. I’m not sure she’s tracking what’s happening closely, or as closely as she should be. But the number of super hot chicks in the world is small, and the number in the scene is small. The number who are willing to be photographed is smaller still. This may come back to bite Ms. Slav… or it may not. She may fully “come out” in a way that most participants are reluctant to. If it weren’t for peculiar aspects of my own life setup, I might be willing to come out. Men are more willing, on average than women. Especially single men.

Ms. Slav is popular as a photograph target because almost everyone understands basic principles of consumer advertising. How do you sell to a man? Tell him this product will bring him hot chicks. To a woman? This product will make her one. Ms. Slav could not be a professional model, but she is willing to be undressed and trussed up in front of the camera.

Ms. Slav will be at home for a few weeks, and it would not surprise me if she’s had enough of me by the time she gets back. It’s rare for casual relationships to survive the “primary partner” or “be my boyfriend” talk if the outcome is not positive. But Ms. Slav has been exceptional in many ways, which is why I’ve been writing so much about her. Long-time readers will remember “Bike Girl,” who is (was) a more normal relationship than Ms. Slav. Bike Girl was into me and very much wanted to develop our relationship. Most chicks want one or at most two primary relationships. Very few go all the way into Ms. Slav territory, f**king seemingly everyone. Some. I’ve f**ked some of those girls. The girl I cut loose a while ago is like that. We got coffee the other day; I still like her. She lacks diet discipline and that is showing, even at her age. I looked through some of the sex tapes we made, and I can see the difference happening from the first to the last. Remarkable. It’s also weird to see that I wrote that post about her in July… it seems like last month.

I emphasize how rare Ms. Slav is in the preceding paragraph because I think some guys will think her behavior is common, when in fact it’s not. Because it’s so uncommon, it makes a good story. I’ve written far more about Ms. Slav than I did about Bike Girl because Bike Girl was pretty normal and Ms. Slav is not.

People doing consensual non-monogamy successfully often have quite orderly, regular lives apart from the sex clubs. Most lives can only tolerate so much disorder before they collapse or spiral out of control. To be totally debauched in one area, one must be very stable and responsible in others. Most people in the community are employed and have a reasonable financial base, too; it’s hard to explore alternate relationship styles if you can’t pay rent first.

If I have the opportunity, I might go a couple weeks or month without chicks, as a kind of psychological or physical challenge. Some of the regulars may drop off. But that depends on Peaches’s scheduled.

Does anyone else reading this, and in the game, like Stoic philosophy? I’m not religious, but there is a slightly religious impulse behind my interest.

Ms. Slav party night

I went to a party with Ms. Slav on Saturday night, and Ms. Slav was on good behavior. Or she was genuinely interested in hooking up with this chick, which she did for a long time, with me participating for a lot of it. Regardless of motives, things went well. Ms. Slav was more solicitous than she has been. She was a little tired herself, and I was a lot tired… the “tired” came from Home Friend the night before, but I didn’t share that with Ms. Slav. Ms. Slav was also a bit more subdued, and she let herself be led more easily.

Later on, we left and got some food, and then went back to my place. I was ready to crash, but Ms. Slav wanted to chat. She asked me to be her primary partner. And I froze… and then punted… I have seen less of her in the last month than I would like. I asked what makes her ask now, and I told her that I’d been thinking about this exact issue. She said that I’m willing to let her be free and that I’m more reliable than anyone else she’s met. Fuuuuccccckkkkkkk… “reliable” is synonymous with “boring” in girl-speak. Particularly young-girl-speak. Ms. Slav could tell I wasn’t happy with that description, although I tried to hide my initial response, and I didn’t quite want to tell her that “reliable” means “boring,” but I was dancing around that idea some.

We had a long talk about reciprocity and how, from my perspective, she’d been out f**king everyone under the sun… and she said that I would never have met Peaches if not for her (somewhat true, but less than she thinks), and that I should have “checked” with her first. I explained that I hear what she’s saying, but that, again from my perspective, she seems to be splitting hairs.

This is the girl who doesn’t experience jealousy and who opposes drama. Like I said in an earlier post, push hard enough and we’re all hypocrites in some way. Ms. Slav isn’t ready to acknowledge her hypocrisy. I don’t think she can even see it. I think she’s too deep in her own worldview to perceive it. She stuck to her story.

I debated telling her about Home Friend on Friday. I know she won’t like me f**king Home Friend. I know she won’t like finding out that I f**ked Home Friend later. But Ms. Slav is going back to her home country for a couple weeks shortly, and I don’t know what will happen when she returns. I don’t know what I want to happen. The last couple months have been so debauched, like I wonder if this is a kind of last hurrah for this part of my life. But I’ve built up all these skills and connections… there is a part of me that thinks it would almost be a waste to stop now.

I’ve written about this previously, but for a long time my mind was congruent: I love f**king, I like group sex, let’s just do as much as I can, as often as I can, while still maintaining my other duties and responsibilities. Now I’m more ambivalent, more divided, and less sure of what the focus of my life should be. I don’t think it’s an accident that I began writing online around the time I began feeling ambivalent. When my mind was united, I felt less need to share or explain. And my job soaked up pretty much every spare moment and thought. Now my role has changed and I have more time, but maybe more time isn’t so good for me after all. I have been blessed with many extraordinary experiences and opportunities. I will never be one of those people who looks back at their sex life and thinks, “I wish I had had the courage to try this, this, and this.” I have tried it all. For the good, sometimes for the less good. I have learned much. Some of that I am passing on. I wonder who will do what I do, in the next generation. The non-monogamy culture is out there. Players who combine it with game can achieve extraordinary things, as most guys in the scene lack game, and most guys who have decent game do not know about the scene, it seems.

With Ms. Slav, I left the “primary partner” discussion tabled. I think she may leave, and lose interest (time away is deadening for any woman, but especially a fizzy young girl), and by the time she comes back the problem will have solved itself. Ms. Slav thinks we fit well together because I have been superficially less judgmental of her behavior than others have. In reality, I know that chastising girls is largely useless. I know that Ms. Slav is the sort of girl who is going to have to discover principles of reciprocity the hard way. I’m enjoying the ride… I’m not in it for the long term.

Sunday morning she spent a long time going down on me. We went out for coffee. She went home, I went back to my place for a nap. In the afternoon I began writing this pair of posts. I need to get myself back to a more normal, rhythmic schedule. This weekend has been crazy.

Independent date with Ms. Slav’s friend from home

Friday night I saw Ms. Slav’s friend from her home country… we’ll call her Home Friend. She’s been hitting me up, although I did extend the invitation to dinner. Pretty straightforward deal, she took a car over, and I meant to have dinner first and then f**k her… instead, we spent like an hour and a half f**king in various configurations. I didn’t last very long during the first penetrative session, as she is young and so so tight. And… she told me that she has an IUD now. We know what that information, volunteered, means. I spent a long time on foreplay, warmup, spanking, etc., based on her feedback from last time and the fact that she’s complained about college guys being in a hurry to get in her and then not in a hurry to get her off. So I deliberately took a long time with her, ramping her up from normal-world psychology to sex-world psychology.

I’m not sure if, the first time Ms. Slav and I had a threesome with Home Friend, Home Friend was a kind of peace offering because of Ms. Slav’s sex rampage. Or if Ms. Slav genuinely wanted Home Friend to have a good sex experience, which she seems not to have had. Home Friend seems to be very interested in sex with men, but has not had satisfying sex with men. She also seems to like somewhat gentler sex than some girls… like Ms. Slav… Home Friend likes it very firm, but not as violent as Ms. Slav likes. Home Friend is more normal than Ms. Slav, except that she has Ms. Slav as a friend and influence, and Ms. Slav spreads her high sexual charge to whoever is around her.

Most girls are followers, and if their environment is sexually charged and sex positive, they become more sexual. If their environment is prudish and sterile, they become more prudish and sterile. Skilled players learn to create an environment that is sexually charged without being too overt, direct, or gross. Most chicks are creatures of the imagination, rather than visually-oriented creatures like men. Ms. Slav is normatively highly sexed and sex positive, which is unusual… she’s got much more leadership and preference than typical chicks. I like her. Ms. Slav likes that I know what I’m doing and that, unlike most guys, I “get” her. For a lot of guys, it takes a long time to understand chicks and be competent.

With Home Friend, I bought her a vibe and told her to use it on her clit while she was bent over and I was f**king her, and the results were spectacular. She said, “Sex with you is amazing.” It’s always flattering when a chick says that, but I don’t think it is as true as she thinks… I think Home Friend simply hasn’t run into a guy who knows what he’s doing in bed. I’m competent, and she’s just used to super young, inexperienced guys. Probably with some super young, semi-experienced guys who still take their cues from porn. I don’t know how many guys she’s f**ked… I don’t care, either.

I’m just calmer, more directive, and more knowledgeable than those young guys who take too many cues from porn. Porn primarily caters to male tastes, desires, and fantasies… and professional porn very rarely represents the buildup normal chicks need. Home Friend and I talked quite a lot about that. I told her that, with young inexperienced guys, she needs to train them to do what she wants. She resisted that idea, which is not surprising because she is lackadaisical and doesn’t even know herself, let alone anyone else. Like most girls, she wants someone to lead her. Ms. Slav is much more advanced and mature than Home Friend. But I gave Home Friend some pointers about how to express herself without being dominant and gave her some suggestions for videos to watch with guys she likes but who are bad in bed.

Most men have to learn how chicks work through trial and error (like I did). It would be nice for chicks to take guys aside and be like, “Do this, this, and this, and think that, that, and that.” But chicks hate leading or educating in bed, and most guys don’t try to learn what to do or how to slow down, figure out the chick’s feedback loops, etc. Truly a situation that foments frustration.

Home Friend did have several incredible, whole-body-shaking orgasms from cunnilingus. The kind where she can’t talk for a few minutes after. The kind that bonds a girl to a man. After each one of the monster orgasms, I either f**ked her some more (my last orgasm I didn’t think I could have… I thought I was spent… but feeling her p***y around my fingers and her moans and the feel of her body coming got me up for one more round). It took Home Friend a lot of time to lose her nervousness. I’ve been through the process of breaking in sexually inexperienced girls a bunch of times, so I was accepting of her nerves, and that made the whole thing flow better.

With the “sex with you is amazing comment,” basically, she’s inexperienced and is mistaking competence with being “amazing.” I have some tricks and techniques available and am good at reading the feedback loop between her and me. She reads that as being amazing. She also said that guys her age would rather play videogames than f**k girls. This might be flattery towards me… or it might be true… I can’t say. She seemed surprised by me being uninterested in professional sports or TV shows. We talked about life’s highest and best experiences and how those are rarely mediated by screen. I have a sort of “guru” spiel that I’ve given too many times. Chicks listen to it in the post-sex, good-feeling moment… and the next they’re back on Instagram and Facebook, pissed off that Becky has such a good picture of her in a bikini on a beach vacation. Why isn’t MY life like that???

Saturday morning I sent Home Friend on her way. She wants to make plans with me for next week, but I have Peaches scheduled for Tuesday (thankfully not Monday, today, as I need a break). Saturday night I went out with Ms. Slav. Awkwardly, Home Friend was messaging me while I was with Ms. Slav. Fortunately, I make it a practice of not looking at my phone and even turning it to do-not-disturb mode, so the one did not see the messages from the other.

I don’t think Home Friend and I mentioned Ms. Slav at all. A chick may be inexperienced, but that does not mean she is not devious or wicked. Home Friend has communicated a lot to me about who she is and what she’s about. What a girl does to others, she will eventually do to you. Many guys want to ignore this basic lesson in the heat of passion and in the positive feelings from railing a new chick. But the hottest passion inevitably cools… who are you left with then? For my purposes with Home Friend, it doesn’t matter… and Home Friend doesn’t have the experience t perceive this. Plus, she has her own dualistic mating strategy to contend with, in which she wants investment from the kind of men who are least likely to invest in her.

Home Friend doesn’t do ANY pics or videos, so I’m guessing she’s used to opsec. I want em, but she’s firmly resistant. Most chicks can be persuaded and find sex tapes flattering. Not this one. Not right now. Seriously. I have no pics of her and haven’t friended her Facebook and she hasn’t friended me. Very unusual behavior for young chicks. Ms. Slav has said Home Friend loves social media, too, and that Home Friend is on it all the time.

Except with me.

Much as I like making sex tapes, if a chick is adamant, her wishes must be respected.

I told Home Friend to stop dating college guys cause they’re convenient and to get online. Most girls, from what I hear, are too inept to do this. We also talked about how to get guys to talk about their sexual interests and experiences (she seemed surprised to be getting advice about how to date other guys from a guy she’s f**ked… I think she is used to mate guarding). Inexperienced guys won’t be able to talk much about sex or, most importantly for Home Friend, foreplay. Ms. Slav seems to need less foreplay than the average girl. It’s fun to make Ms. Slav wait, but after five minutes she’s wet and ready. Home Friend likes much more prolonged foreplay and, from what I can tell, penetrative sex is much better for her after she’s come once already.

Chicks, man. They’re all different. I wish I’d known when I was younger. But when I was younger, I was like a lot of high school and college boys… the ones Home Friend is disenchanted with… always pressed for time and space, always worried about someone walking in, always stuck in a car or in some other uncomfortable spot. A weekend alone could be a luxury oasis. I was too caught up in ego and performance anxiety to properly let flow happen.

I’m not going to lie: I’ve thought about doing a branch swing from Ms. Slav to Home Friend. The risk is that 1. Ms. Slav may be extremely mad and cut both of us off—an outcome that would not kill me but that I do not yet favor. 2. Home Friend may prefer me as undercover lover to official going steady guy. She is too socially normally to want a guy my age in her social universe, I think. 3. Home Friend is getting attached TOO fast. 4. Overall, Home Friend is less mature than Ms. Slav, I judge. 5. I don’t want to be in an in-depth relationship with a girl her age, however tight she is.

What I’m doing with Home Friend is unethical in the context of non-monogamy, or at the very least against the spirit of what we are doing. Guys in the game learn what rules should apply to wingmen, e.g. the guy who opens calls the shots. The guy who opens two girls, gets to chase the girl who most interests him, and the other guy has to let the opener chase first. Otherwise, the two guys are going to have crossfire problems and piss each other off. In non-monogamy, whoever brings a person in doesn’t have control over that person exactly, but should have priority over the secondary person. Ms. Slav should have priority over Home Friend, but I have not given that to her (that is what I discuss in Priorities and Ms. Slav’s challenges in non-monogamy). In my defense, Ms. Slav has f**ked a million people in the last several months. Ms. Slav has not been following priority rules, so I haven’t done that either. Once you start down this path, it’s hard to stop it. Not impossible. I have seen couples pull back, have a reconciliation, and agree to prioritize properly in the future. Ms. Slav may be like that. To make a primary partnership arrangement work, each person has to quell their immediate passion and ensure the other person is prioritized. Otherwise, the arrangement fails.

Home Friend also illustrates how the first bang is always the hardest. After the first bang, you’re a known quantity and you don’t “count.” For this reason, I’ve had many chicks swing around like a comet, banging me when they’re between boyfriends or horny, etc.

Ms. Slav may also be swinging around to greater interest in me (see next post), but do I feel the same of her? Less so. Age disparity is too great. Unless I just want to keep spending my life f**king and chasing chicks. Maybe I do. But I’m not so sure. It’s less satisfying than it was. Don’t get me wrong, f**king Home Friend was great. But in a way, it also feels like season 6 of a TV show, when the writers have pretty much exhausted the initial premise.

I forgot to wash and change the sheets between Home Friend on Friday and Ms. Slav on Saturday. Or I didn’t bother? If Ms. Slav noticed she didn’t say anything.